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Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2



 
 
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  #81  
Old January 13th, 2007, 11:13 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Guys, this thread is about discussing Dumbledore's Portrait, if it exists and not about Snape, Slughorn and Harry at various moments in HBP. So maybe we should go back to the Portrait

What would Harry's first question be to Portrait Dumbledore if Harry should happen to be alone with it? (providing that the Portrait can give a full answer naturally)


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  #82  
Old January 13th, 2007, 12:07 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer_lisse View Post
Excellent, this topic definitely deserves a v2 because it could prove to be a deciding factor in Harry's fight against Voldemort.

If DD can infact impart further wisdom upon Harry and the Order dont you think it will be kind of awkward at first for Harry to talk to someone who he just witnessed fall off a tower? Where would he start? Harry-"Hello sir, how's the weather?"

My first question to him though would obviously be about Snape's betrayal and whether or not Snape was acting under orders. Infact almost every ambiguity that we have thought about that last scene at the Lightning Struck Tower could be answered by DD.

1) Is Snape Evil?
2) What happened to you while you were drinking the potion?
3) What do i do next?

those should be Harry's first three questions
I like the ideas you presented. You are absolutely right that these should be Harry's next questions, but something tells me they won't be. Harry never asks the right questions, he's had so many opportunities to ask people about his parents yet he never did. Why didn't he ever ask Lupin why he wasn't at his parents wedding? Why didn't he ever inquire about his paternal grandparents? More importantly, why didn't he ask where Godrics Hollow is? How in the heck will he find it if he has no idea where to look? Is Godrics Hollow a city, or like a village or Hamlet that you can get a map and find?

To be fair though, even when Harry did ask DD good questions, he always allowed Harry to ask only a couple of questions and then he shut him down. Hopefully in death he will be able to help Harry. This is no time to be secretive. However, Harry has to get learn to keep people from entering his mind first, and to control his emotions.

Now on to the portrait issue. I definitely think the portrait of DD will come in handy. I think I read that as long as you have a portrait of someone, they could travel in and out of their portrait. I like the fact that DD will still be able to help Harry even after he is gone.


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  #83  
Old January 13th, 2007, 12:18 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer_lisse
It is also an assumption that they were real people...
Yes, it is of course an assumption both ways. I was merely countering your assumption with another assumption to prove that it could go both ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HesHPfan
What would Harry's first question be to Portrait Dumbledore if Harry should happen to be alone with it? (providing that the Portrait can give a full answer naturally)
I don't think that it would be just one question - more of an unstoppable flow of questions. I believe that it would be something like:

"What do I do now? Can I go back into the Pensieve? What places have you checked? Am I even ready to do something like this? Exactly how do you destroy a Horcrux? Can it kill me? Sir....I'm scared."

Of course, there would be more than that, but I am not JKR. Harry will of course want to know more about the Horcruxes and where they may be hidden. He would also look for comfort from Dumbledore, and possibly advice on who he can ask for help.


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  #84  
Old January 13th, 2007, 2:55 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
MrSleepyHead:
I don't think that it would be just one question - more of an unstoppable flow of questions. I believe that it would be something like:

"What do I do now? Can I go back into the Pensieve? What places have you checked? Am I even ready to do something like this? Exactly how do you destroy a Horcrux? Can it kill me? Sir....I'm scared."

Of course, there would be more than that, but I am not JKR. Harry will of course want to know more about the Horcruxes and where they may be hidden. He would also look for comfort from Dumbledore, and possibly advice on who he can ask for help.
Yeah, though if Harry got the answers to those questions, it would be too easy. Assuming the seventh book starts off right after the funeral, Harry could go to DD's office(now McGonagall's office) on last time, hoping the portrait would wake up. Then, as he turns to leave, DD's portrait wakes up and gives him some advice, or something like that.


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  #85  
Old January 13th, 2007, 7:49 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

I agree, JKR will not give everything to Harry so easily that he just has to ask Dumbledore's portrait and gets the answer. I think it's more likely that the portrait will give some vague hints, like take a look at the pensieve or visit this or that place.


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  #86  
Old January 13th, 2007, 9:37 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
HesHPfan:
I agree, JKR will not give everything to Harry so easily that he just has to ask Dumbledore's portrait and gets the answer. I think it's more likely that the portrait will give some vague hints, like take a look at the pensieve or visit this or that place.
Exactly, maybe DD's will is involved somehow, maybe he'll leave his pensive to Harry, or perhaps his portrait will tell Harry to go look inside it or something.


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  #87  
Old January 14th, 2007, 10:36 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Actually, access to Dumbledore's Portrait is a good reason for Harry to return to Hogwarts for his seventh year despite his declaration in book 6 that he won't be going back. The other good reason is the protection at school. Dumbledore's tomb probably ensures that the protective charms he placed upon the school will outlast him. It's also possible that Harry will have a portrait of Dumbledore at Grimauld Place since it was the headquaters of the Order of the Phoenix, which he headed.

As to whether or not Dumbledore's portrait will speak, it obviously should be capable of it, just like the other portraits of past headmasters. I don't think Harry will waste his or Dumbledore's time asking where Snape's true loyalties lie. (He probably believes he knows.) Dumbledore knew about the unbreakable vow, (Harry told him ) He was aware of Malfoy's assignment and the threat he was under. He could guess how the matter would play out, and therefore arranged to make the best of a bad situation.



Last edited by Quickquill; January 16th, 2007 at 12:00 am.
  #88  
Old January 14th, 2007, 11:32 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Quote:
Originally Posted by HesHPfan
I agree, JKR will not give everything to Harry so easily that he just has to ask Dumbledore's portrait and gets the answer. I think it's more likely that the portrait will give some vague hints, like take a look at the pensieve or visit this or that place.
I agree - I do believe that Harry will ask questions of that sort, but I find it hard to believe that JKR would make it that easy. Also, knowing Dumbledore, he would not want to give Harry all the answers straight out - more, like you said, subtle hints. I believe that Dumbledore will definitely tell Harry to look in the Pensieve. Also, I think that there is reason to believe that Dumbledore may have had more memories to show Harry:
HBP, Lord Voldemort's Request, Page 440, American, HBAnd now for the very last recollection I have to show you, at least until you manage to retrieve Professor Slughorn's memory for us.

Now, it seems obvious that Dumbledore had no more memories, and the final memory that he would show Harry was Slughorn's. However, this is not necessarily true. It could be that Dumbledore was waiting for Slughorn's memory and then show Harry others that could only make sense once that one was procured. Then, Dumbledore may not have shown Harry the other memories because he was too involved in finding the cave.

With that theory being stated, I believe that Dumbledore may tell Harry that there are other memories that may help him along.


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  #89  
Old January 15th, 2007, 12:29 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

that is exactly wat i was thinking. i don't get the questions tho. i think harry will use Dumbledore's portrait to give him advice. It's just like Dumbledore actually being there except he can't do magic or anything. Harry still has Dumbledore's wisdom


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  #90  
Old January 15th, 2007, 12:53 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

It probably will be able to talk but as to if it will help Harry much is debatable. Dumbledore might not want to give away to much information to Harry just in case Voldemort tries to get into Harry's head. Dumbledore will probably give Harry some cryptic foolish-seeming message that turns out to be the only way Harry can destroy Voldemort or something like that.


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Old January 15th, 2007, 4:21 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Don't everyone give up on the Chocolate Frog Card theory too quickly. JKR has waved those cards in our faces several times now, most recently in OotP, when (as someone above noted) Dumbledore stated that society could take away whatever of Dumbledore's titles and various positions they wished so long as they left him on those cards. I don't think that was a throwaway line.

OotP was also where JKR established that the occupants of multiple portraits can, if they want, move among their various portraits and report on what they see to whomever is viewing the portrait. In fact, this was reconfirmed in HBP, when McGonagall was warned of Scrimgeour's imminent arrival by one of the former Headmasters' portraits.

I think the most important thing that will result from Dumbledore's various portraits is that Dumbledore will be poised to be able to communicate information to Harry about what Dumbledore sees from his vantage point among his various portraits. Think about it. Not only does a portrait of Dumbledore exist inside the Headmistress's office at Hogwarts, but probably also hangs somewhere in the Wizengamot's offices, the offices of the International Confederation of Wizards, and (as I don't think anyone has yet mentioned) his brother Aberforth's house and/or place of employment. AND in both Harry and Ron's pockets, via the Chocolate Frog cards. Perhaps Dumbledore could let Harry know of who the Headmistress is meeting with, who's being prosecuted before the Wizengamot -- or that Harry should hie himself to the Hog's Head to speak with the barman.

Maybe the Chocolate Frog cards are how Harry is going to finally make the connection between Albus and Aberforth, and get whatever information Aberforth can provide.


  #92  
Old January 15th, 2007, 8:20 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by brittrossiter View Post
Don't everyone give up on the Chocolate Frog Card theory too quickly. JKR has waved those cards in our faces several times now, most recently in OotP, when (as someone above noted) Dumbledore stated that society could take away whatever of Dumbledore's titles and various positions they wished so long as they left him on those cards. I don't think that was a throwaway line.

OotP was also where JKR established that the occupants of multiple portraits can, if they want, move among their various portraits and report on what they see to whomever is viewing the portrait. In fact, this was reconfirmed in HBP, when McGonagall was warned of Scrimgeour's imminent arrival by one of the former Headmasters' portraits.

I think the most important thing that will result from Dumbledore's various portraits is that Dumbledore will be poised to be able to communicate information to Harry about what Dumbledore sees from his vantage point among his various portraits. Think about it. Not only does a portrait of Dumbledore exist inside the Headmistress's office at Hogwarts, but probably also hangs somewhere in the Wizengamot's offices, the offices of the International Confederation of Wizards, and (as I don't think anyone has yet mentioned) his brother Aberforth's house and/or place of employment. AND in both Harry and Ron's pockets, via the Chocolate Frog cards. Perhaps Dumbledore could let Harry know of who the Headmistress is meeting with, who's being prosecuted before the Wizengamot -- or that Harry should hie himself to the Hog's Head to speak with the barman.

Maybe the Chocolate Frog cards are how Harry is going to finally make the connection between Albus and Aberforth, and get whatever information Aberforth can provide.

But why, if the chocolate cards could speak, haven't we seen them speak before? Harry has needed Dumbledore before, several times Dumbledore was absent from Hogwarts due to intervention of a third party. If Dumbledore could have communicated with Harry via frog cards, walking into and out of them by free will, he would have used them when he was replaced by Umbridge.

If Aberforth really has a portrait of Dumbledore, I expect that the Portrait in the headmaster/mistress office will tell Harry all about that.


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  #93  
Old January 15th, 2007, 8:40 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

Harry asks Dumbledore repeatedly in HBP how DD's hand got injured. DD usually says something about it being a thrilling tale and he wants to do it justice, but never gets around to actually telling Harry before he dies. I think this is one of the things the portrait will communicate to Harry and thereby give him solid clues as to how to destroy a horcrux.

I too think the portrait will be important in DH--not sure yet about brittrossiter's Chocolate Frog Card theory, but it's certainly worthy of some more thought.


  #94  
Old January 15th, 2007, 8:50 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

In addition to all the ideas presented here, I think Dumbledore's portrait will be a great device to impart mountains of information to Harry (us) that could tie up lots of loose ends. Finally. Sometimes I just don't think I can make it to the release of Deathly Hallows!


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Old January 15th, 2007, 10:20 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

When I first read that Dumbledore's portrait was hanging in his office, I thought 'then what's the big deal?!' Why can't Harry just talk to him through there? The other portraits did. In fact, they seemed to be Dumbledore's friends! But I guess the question is: can the portrait be taken down? I think that's where the knot is. Harry can't just carry it around, it's possibly stuck to the wall by enchantment. However, Dumbledore said in the fifth book that very important and well-known headmasters and headmistresses have their portraits hanging else where e.g. St Mungo's. Possibly the same in his case...he was the most famous wizrd of the time (apart from Voldy and Harry I guess)...surely he will be haning somewhere else? In that case, maybe Harry has to keep visitng a certain place (not Hogwarts) to talk to him. Twisted? Probably. But Jo's written bazar things before!


  #96  
Old January 15th, 2007, 10:53 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by padfoot92 View Post
When I first read that Dumbledore's portrait was hanging in his office, I thought 'then what's the big deal?!' Why can't Harry just talk to him through there? The other portraits did. In fact, they seemed to be Dumbledore's friends! But I guess the question is: can the portrait be taken down? I think that's where the knot is. Harry can't just carry it around, it's possibly stuck to the wall by enchantment. However, Dumbledore said in the fifth book that very important and well-known headmasters and headmistresses have their portraits hanging else where e.g. St Mungo's. Possibly the same in his case...he was the most famous wizrd of the time (apart from Voldy and Harry I guess)...surely he will be haning somewhere else? In that case, maybe Harry has to keep visitng a certain place (not Hogwarts) to talk to him. Twisted? Probably. But Jo's written bazar things before!
I agree with you I think he will have to visit Dumbledore's portrait somewhere other then Hogwarts. There has to be some other place they would hang his portrait that is more convenient then St. Mungos or the MOM though, somewhere where the trio can talk to him at least semi privately.


  #97  
Old January 16th, 2007, 12:52 am
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by Nicole View Post
Does anyone think Albus has more than one portrait? Phineas had two, the frog-like man in the Prime Minister's office had two, Dilys had two and Everard had two. Albus says of the latter two, "Their renown is such that both have portraits hanging in other important Wizarding institutions." (Everard in the Ministry, Dilys at St. Mungo's). Phineas has his additional portrait in the ancestral family home (Grimmauld Place). Shouldn't Albus have a second portrait somewhere besides Hogwarts, considering his fame and renown?
This might sound silly but DD wan't more than anything to have his picture stay on the chocolate frog cards.Do you think they would be of any help?Sort of like the coins Hermione charmed to tell everyone when a DA meeting would take place.I know the consept has never happened but do you think it is a possibility?


  #98  
Old January 16th, 2007, 4:12 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

If the portrait does talk and help him through the next book what was DD purpose for being killed as he is he Harrys mentor?

Why wasn't there a S Black portrait?


  #99  
Old January 16th, 2007, 4:14 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by Eluradanna View Post
I agree with you I think he will have to visit Dumbledore's portrait somewhere other then Hogwarts. There has to be some other place they would hang his portrait that is more convenient then St. Mungos or the MOM though, somewhere where the trio can talk to him at least semi privately.
Agreed, Harry can't just walk into the MoM after he refused Scrimgeour twice, that might raise false expectations and nasty consequences for Harry.

Let's imagine that Aberforth Dumbledore will make an appearance in the new book and is in fact the Hogs Head barman. The Hogs Head is a place which Harry could easily visit without being noticed, if he keeps his invisibility cloak on of course. A portrait of Albus Dumbledore, hanging in the private rooms of Aberforth would be perfect to visit if information is needed.

Unless Harry wants to bring McGonagall up to date with the horcrux situation, it's not very likely that she would let him into her office unattended. Even Harry would have a hard time getting into the office without permission. So if Portrait Dumbledore would just tell Harry that there is a safe portrait somewhere, Harry probably would prefer that.


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  #100  
Old January 16th, 2007, 4:24 pm
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Re: Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

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Originally Posted by one2escape View Post
If the portrait does talk and help him through the next book what was DD purpose for being killed as he is he Harrys mentor?

i think that harry wont just be able to walk in and talk to dumbldore as that as you said will just be pointless in allowing dumbledore to die, i think that harry has to say something or do something to wake up dumbledore, like perhaps "nitwit, blubber, oddment, tweek" or whatever it is, i can't quite remember. i know it is very unlikely but it would make sense as to why dumbkedore kept saying it.


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