Dumbledore's Portrait : Can it speak? Will it be able to help Harry? v2

[Nicole]

Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri

Actually we have seen other subjects of portraits step into portraits not their own.

But not step "out of Hogwarts" except to portraits of their own. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I was trying to make the point about travelling between Hogwarts (where we know Albus has a portrait, specifically in the Headmaster/mistress office) and another location via portrait. The Fat Lady hasn't been seen to leave Hogwarts via anyone's portrait, though we are told she visits others inside the castle.

Albus didn't (couldn't?) send Phineas to St. Mungo's, he sent Dilys (because she had a second portrait there). He didn't send Fortescue to the Ministry, he sent Everard who had a portrait there. Thus it seems that portrait-Albus can't go to Phineas's portrait at Hogwarts and then "travel" to Phineas's Grimmauld Place portrait. [But I don't think such "travel" can be completely ruled out based on the few examples we have had; maybe Jo was "saving" the concept for that oh-so-special, powerful and talented Albus Dumbledore, Champion of Commoners, Mudbloods and Muggles! ]

[Ashkins]

I wouldr eally like to see it help Harry like the other portraits did for Dumbledore. IF not to give him the answers to help him figure things out on his own.
dumbledore alwas said he would not be truly gone from Hogwarts unless there was no loyalty towards him. Its not gone so I feel there is something left of him there at the school. (even if just memory)

[haiya227]

Do you think portraits are sort of like ghosts because it is the imprint of the dead but sometimes alive. Couldn't harry carry a small portrait of Dumbledore around and get lots of advice from him?

[Ashkins]

Originally Posted by haiya227

Do you think portraits are sort of like ghosts because it is the imprint of the dead but sometimes alive. Couldn't harry carry a small portrait of Dumbledore around and get lots of advice from him?

Like the trading cards?

[_Dark_Lord_]

The portrait is definitely going to be able to speak. If all the portraits of the previous Headmasters and Headmistress' of Hogwarts can speak, why shouldn't Dumbledore's? I think it might be able to help Harry on his quest for destroying the Horcruxes, but not directly, rather giving him some general advice. It doesn't seem very plausible that his memory from the point of his death was transferred or copied to his portrait, it would make more sense if the portrait was an imprint of his mind and personality with knowledge of the wizarding world and Hogwarts.

This all depends on when the portrait was created. It's not unlikely that DD knew or at least presumed that he was going to die soon, so perhaps he created the portrait himself with knowledge of Voldemort and the Horcruxes. I stick with the first possibility though, which doesn't mean that the portrait won't be useful to Harry at all.

[mountainman123]

There were some people talking about Harry taking DD's portrait with him, but surely there is a charm that keeps it from coming off the wall.

[Hes]

Originally Posted by mountainman123

There were some people talking about Harry taking DD's portrait with him, but surely there is a charm that keeps it from coming off the wall.

The portraits of the former headmasters and mistresses are there to serve the current head of Hogwarts. I don't know if it is a charm that keeps them there... but I guess that Harry could only take it with him if he takes McGonagall into his confidence. He can't really take it with him without raising questions.

[RemusLupinFan]

I believe Dumbledore's portrait will be able to both speak and to help Harry to some degree. Even though portraits are only shadows of who they were when alive, I think Dumbledore's portrait may be able to give Harry some last pieces of advice before (or at some point during) his quest.

Even if it's possible to remove Dumbledore's portrait, I don't think Harry will end up taking it with him. For one thing, it would be a burden if he has to transport it everywhere he goes. And second, I rather think that the portrait will serve to remind Harry of the lessons Dumbledore taught Harry when he was alive. Rather than actually bringing Dumbledore's portrait with him, I think he will draw on his memories of Dumbledore's lessons, thus figuratively carrying Dumbledore with him.

[xirtalleb]

I think that dumbledores portrait will be able to give advice because wouldn't a portarit posses all the toughts that the person had before they died? So stuff like is snape evil or whats the proof you've got to prove snapes innocence would be answerable because dumbleodre would have thought about them before his death.

[witchsmart]

xirtalleb:
I think that dumbledores portrait will be able to give advice because wouldn't a portarit posses all the toughts that the person had before they died? So stuff like is snape evil or whats the proof you've got to prove snapes innocence would be answerable because dumbleodre would have thought about them before his death.

Maybe, but Dumbledore's portrait knows a lot. If he woke up and told Harry everything, it wouldn't be much of a mystery. I think that Dumbledore's portrait will remain asleep until the end of the book.

[Snape_Redemptor]

I think that Dumbledore's portrait will remain asleep until the end of the book.

Or pretend to be asleep!

[charlienana]

the portraits of the dead headmasters and mistress' have only ever talked in the presence of or on the orders of the headmaster, they are there to serve the future heads of the school.

What if the only way harry can talk to dumbledore is if Mcgonagall is present?

[Hes]

Originally Posted by charlienana

the portraits of the dead headmasters and mistress' have only ever talked in the presence of or on the orders of the headmaster, they are there to serve the future heads of the school.

What if the only way harry can talk to dumbledore is if Mcgonagall is present?

That's not entirely the case. Phineas Nigellus did talk to Harry, just after he arrived in the headmasters office after the battle at the Ministry of Magic. So it is possible for the portraits to talk without permission or the presence of the headmaster or mistress.

[HarryHermione94]

Originally Posted by witchsmart

Maybe, but Dumbledore's portrait knows a lot. If he woke up and told Harry everything, it wouldn't be much of a mystery. I think that Dumbledore's portrait will remain asleep until the end of the book.

I agree because if Dumbledore's portrait tells Harry everything it wouldn't be a mystery. I think DD will stay asleep until the end of the book also. In the book I think Harry will have to learn how to do stuff without Dumbledore around to help him.

[tuer_lisse]

Originally Posted by Nicole

But not step "out of Hogwarts" except to portraits of their own. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. I was trying to make the point about travelling between Hogwarts (where we know Albus has a portrait, specifically in the Headmaster/mistress office) and another location via portrait. The Fat Lady hasn't been seen to leave Hogwarts via anyone's portrait, though we are told she visits others inside the castle.

Albus didn't (couldn't?) send Phineas to St. Mungo's, he sent Dilys (because she had a second portrait there). He didn't send Fortescue to the Ministry, he sent Everard who had a portrait there. Thus it seems that portrait-Albus can't go to Phineas's portrait at Hogwarts and then "travel" to Phineas's Grimmauld Place portrait. [But I don't think such "travel" can be completely ruled out based on the few examples we have had; maybe Jo was "saving" the concept for that oh-so-special, powerful and talented Albus Dumbledore, Champion of Commoners, Mudbloods and Muggles! ]

I agree, Dumbledore cant use other portraits as stepping stones to travel to other places. In fact, i cant remember any time where the portraits in the Headmaster's office have communicated with eachother? It seems that they only talk with the current and still alive headmaster/mistress.

The fat lady doesnt visit other paintings very often because she is in charge of guarding Gryffindor common room. If she was out gallavanting around the castle frequently then students wouldnt be able to get in and out.

[witchsmart]

tuer_lisse:
I agree, Dumbledore cant use other portraits as stepping stones to travel to other places. In fact, i cant remember any time where the portraits in the Headmaster's office have communicated with eachother? It seems that they only talk with the current and still alive headmaster/mistress.

Well they have talked with Harry before. But yes, I'm pretty sure that they can't go to other buildings unless they have a portrait there.

[moonarcher]

Originally Posted by tuer_lisse

I agree, Dumbledore cant use other portraits as stepping stones to travel to other places. In fact, i cant remember any time where the portraits in the Headmaster's office have communicated with eachother? It seems that they only talk with the current and still alive headmaster/mistress.

The fat lady doesnt visit other paintings very often because she is in charge of guarding Gryffindor common room. If she was out gallavanting around the castle frequently then students wouldnt be able to get in and out.

Yes there was. Remember Sirius' grandfather caused quite a stir from the other potraits by making excuses not to go to let Sirius know Harry and the Weasley children would be comming after Auther was attacked.

It was then that we found out that all headmaster's portraits swear an oath to help the current headmaster too, from memory.

IF McGonagall does become head mistress, it is likely that she will consult him about Harry leaving school for the great horcrux hunt, and I daresay Harry will probably have access to it and the pensieve - since the pensieve would need to be guarded well with both DD's and Snape's memories inside.

As for jumping from portrait to portrait, it seems to me that given Dumbledore's popularity and involvement with the Wizenguard, Order of Merlin etc, it is likely his portrait will be in some fairly important, public places, from which the portrait housed in that building can visit other paintings, as we have seen the Fat Lady and Sir Cadoic do. Also, the female ex-headmistress DD sent to St Mungos went into another portrait before loosing sight of Auther too, didn't she?

I'm curious about the card theory. From memory, Ron said something about not expecting Dumbledore to hang around all day when the picture dissapeared. So will the playing cards work if Dumbledore is not alive? Have any dead wizards featured on any of the cards we know of?

[Fabrication]

Have any dead wizards featured on any of the cards we know of?

Wizards that were mentioned to be on the cards in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone are: Agrippa, Morgana, Dumbledore, Hengist of Woodcroft, Alberic Grunnion, Circe, Paracelsus, and Merlin. I'm not sure if any of them are dead or not, or if they were mentioned at any other point. I just thought it would be handy to have a list to see if anyone knows anything about them.

[PotterFreak0515]

I think Dumbledore's portrait will play a small part. If he doesn't have any of his other memories from before, I think the other portraits will fill him in on the basics first. And yes, the portraits know some stuff because Dumbledore uses them to bounce ideas off of, Because I remember in OotP, Harry, McGonagall, and Ron were going to see the Headmaster and Harry heard lots of voices within, but they stopped once McGonagall knocked on the door.

So Harry could fill Dumbledore in and Dumbledore could use his brilliant mind to help Harry figure some stuff out and give him some advice.

[moonarcher]

Originally Posted by Fabrication

Wizards that were mentioned to be on the cards in Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone are: Agrippa, Morgana, Dumbledore, Hengist of Woodcroft, Alberic Grunnion, Circe, Paracelsus, and Merlin. I'm not sure if any of them are dead or not, or if they were mentioned at any other point. I just thought it would be handy to have a list to see if anyone knows anything about them.

If its the Merlin, then its likley he's not living. We don't have any evidence that the cards can speak like the paintings do though do we?