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Who Framed Regulus Black?



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  #1  
Old January 11th, 2007, 8:20 am
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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Who Framed Regulus Black?

Discussion of the editorial Who Framed Regulus Black? by D.E.P.


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  #2  
Old January 11th, 2007, 8:48 am
HagiaSophia  Undisclosed.gif HagiaSophia is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

This is a brilliant editorial!
But, don't you think that if this turns out to be the case, Snape walks away with the whole book in the end? Mind you, I can see all the points you made...


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  #3  
Old January 11th, 2007, 10:22 am
MAGICicalMUggle  Male.gif MAGICicalMUggle is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Awesome Thread!....

I also believe that Snape and Lily were really close to one another...And that Snape would actually want to take revenge on Voldemort...And i dont think that Regulus Black could of been powerful enough Wizard to get past Voldemorts defenses to grab the locket...Even if he knew that Voldemort had Horcruxes..What reason would he have to risk his own life to destroy him.....NONE!

I do think that it could of been Snape for alot of reasons as you had pointed out!..Which makes more sense than any i have heard...... Snape is in fact a great wizard(not as great as Dumbledore though) but still more capable than most,..Since he is a genious at potions and creating spells and is a master of the Darkarts!....


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Snape: Of course it will....The WB muggles will think this necklace is worth millions of dollars and they will grab it, Then the spell i casted will work and they will all turn into........
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  #4  
Old January 11th, 2007, 10:37 am
Dania  Female.gif Dania is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

I enjoyed reading your editorial. I like the idea, and especially the point about that it's stupid to admit one's "crime" by writing one's name - or initials - on a note that's left on the "crime scene". But it just doesn't seem right to me, somehow. You say that Snape could have stolen the locket and framed Regulus Black because he knew that Regulus was about to be killed anyway. Well, Regulus probably knew himself that he was about to be killed by Voldemort, and if he did, then leaving a note pointing to oneself as the thief isn't as stupid. It would be a way to triumph over Voldemort after one's death. Like: "Ha ha, I stole your Horcrux and you can't question me about it or punish me for I'm already dead!" And as for Voldemort going after Regulus' relatives: Sirius was already friends with Dumbledore and probably in the Order by this point, so Voldemort would want to kill him anyway. By leaving the note Regulus does not place Sirius in any more danger than he is already in.

But, anyway, it's an interesting idea that someone other than Regulus could have stolen that locket! And there still is the fact that we haven't heard anything about Regulus being a talented wizard, as you point out. Trying to get to that Horcrux in the cave nearly killed Dumbledore, after all...


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  #5  
Old January 11th, 2007, 11:43 am
cdmHPfan  Female.gif cdmHPfan is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Very interesting theory! Very well thought out and the reasoning is sound.

But how would the locket get in Grimmauld Place if Snape did indeed take it? That is assuming that the locket found during the war on the house was the horcrux locket. Granted Snape is a OOTP member. But Sirius didn't offer the use of his parents house as headquarters till book 5. So when could Snape have put the locket in the house? He was a 1/2 blood so I can't see him being in tight with Mrs. Black.

Also, if you look at the order the horcruxes were made and the harm they caused, how could the persons who tried to open the locket ("a heavy locket that none of them could open" ) get away unscathed? I mean the 1st horcrux, the diary was made when Voldy was younger than 16. It was sucking the life out of a person to make itself real. The 2nd horcrux was the ring made when Voldy was 16. And it destroyed Dumbledores arm!!!!!! Only Snape's quick work saved Dumbledore's life!!!!! The locket would either be # 3 or # 4 and made when Voldy was in his 20's.

I have a strong feeling that the locket and RAB is a red herring because it's just too easy for the usual JKR plot. But then, if that's so, we loose the only real lead on the horcrux issue for the *gasp* LAST BOOK.


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  #6  
Old January 11th, 2007, 11:45 am
LaDonna  Female.gif LaDonna is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

The thing is, if Snape did steal the locket and wants Voldemort dead, then why not let DD know of his actions. No one can read DD's mind, so there is no fear of the information leaking back to Voldemort. And Snape knows DD is the leader of the "Take down Voldie" group. And if he's so intelligent as to work out how to steal the locket, then I think he would be clever enough to figure out how DD got his injuries to his hand, and what DD was up to during the sixth book. And if Snape did know that DD was searching out horcrux's and destroying them, why would he keep the information about the locket a secret from DD. DD was almost killed going to that cave and trying to get the locket (or was killed for those of you who think the potion would of killed him anyways). If Snape wants Voldie's downfall, why would Snape risk DD by keeping it a secret that he already had the locket. Also, if we assume the locket in Grimmauld place is the horcrux, then it seems that Snape wasn't able to figure out how to destroy it. If he really wanted Voldemort dead, why not take the locket to the most intelligent wizard alive (DD of course) to see if they can destroy the locket? I really like your theory, and it is certainly unique. I love anything that can tie Snape into the action. I personally feel Snape did like Lily (in some manner), that he is good and working against Voldemort (although with a very crusty and mean attitude), that he knows about the horcrux's (I think he's clever enough to have figured out that's how Voldie avoided death), that he knows what DD is after and how he got his hand injury, and that he's providing helpful info to DD so DD knows of any information any of the death eaters may have about the horcrux's. But as far as Snape taking the locket, framing Regulus, and then keeping it a secret from everyone, that just leaves too many holes. If Snape is good, he would give every bit of information that he knows to DD in order to bring Voldemort down, wouldn't he? And if he did give all of his information to DD, then why would DD even go to the cave? And as for Snape framing Regulus, that does sound like something a slytherin would do, however it does seem a bit of a stretch. If he's good, and he knew Regulus was going to die, why not alert the order and try to save him? And if there is no way Regulus was a talented enough wizard to have gotten the locket, why would Snape think that Voldemort would believe Regulus could have gotten it. And how did the locket end up in grimmauld place? As for the theory that it would be foolish for someone to steal the locket and leaving a note admitting it, it actually doesn't seem quite so foolish if you knew you were going to die. Especially the nature of the note, sort of rubbing it in Voldemort's face that you managed to figure out the secret and steal it. And it couldn't be that Snape has motive against V because he killed Lily, because if this ties in with the time that Regulus was alive and about to be killed, that was two years before the Potters were killed.


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  #7  
Old January 11th, 2007, 1:24 pm
meenaxi meenaxi is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Interesting theory. But not very convincing.
I dont think snape knew anything about Horcruxes.
I feel some points dont logically follow what is there in books.
it is possible that snape may wnat revenge for lily's death but if he did it after lily's death then the note makes no sense.
It says "by the time you read this I will be dead"
but after lily's death WW thinks Voldemort is dead and there is no reason for Snape to be so confident that he will be dead by the time voldemort reads it.

RAB (whoever he is) is accepting what he has done because he is Sure he is going to die so wants to let the dark lord know how HE sabotaged his dreams of immortatlity before getting killed.
I think RAB is proud of what he has done so there is no shame in admitting he has done it.

RAB may turn out not to be regulus at all but I am sure whoever it is has his real name as RAB or the dark lord knows him as RAB.

There are millions of things of snape to be revealed in Deathly Hallows. I think RAB can be some other character. Every big and small thing need not be connected with snape.


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  #8  
Old January 11th, 2007, 2:00 pm
sriharish  Male.gif sriharish is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

I agree with this theory wholeheartedly. Regulus was bit of an idiot and he was framed. I hope he became a inferi in that lake . 5 stars


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  #9  
Old January 11th, 2007, 2:49 pm
horst horst is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Hey, nice editorial and good idea, but you made a little (forgivable) mistake:

The main charcaters' names aren't translated into German in the German book. It's Sirius Black, not Sirius Schwarz. Only in the first german editions of PS/SS (...und der Stein der Weisen) He is called "Sirius Schwarz" by Hagrid because the translator didn't know then, that he would become a main character. This has been changed by now though.
Therefore, RAS cannot mean Regulus Schwarz in German. But if it is true that it's called RAS in the German books(I cannot check, I've read it in English only.), wouldn't that mean that RAB isn't Regulus Black? Or is it only another mistake by our translator. Or it is mistake by an overexcited reader in a forum.
I think it's the latter.


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  #10  
Old January 11th, 2007, 2:59 pm
lmk  Female.gif lmk is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

I think congratulations are in order for the author of this editorial because said author has come up with a very unique, original, and plausible theory. Bravo! Still, it is only a theory, and I happen not to agree with it. Like others who have posted before me, I also think that R.A.B. signed his or her initials to the note because he or she had nothing to lose by doing so and wanted to make sure that Voldemort knew who was responsible for the disappearance (not the destruction) of the locket Horcrux.

I have a question regarding the comments posted above by "meenaxi". Who is "WW"? This person is referred to in the following statement from the post: "But after lily's (sp.)death WW thinks Voldemort is dead and there is no reason for Snape to be so confident that he will be dead by the time voldemort (sp.) reads it."


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  #11  
Old January 11th, 2007, 3:23 pm
silmarilien  Female.gif silmarilien is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

this is an interesting theory.. however i don't see it! and allthough i may not agree ...Kudos on giving us something to talk about! a whole new idea is hard to come by these days..


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  #12  
Old January 11th, 2007, 3:40 pm
rhbz  Undisclosed.gif rhbz is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

It's a nice idea and it makes sense in many ways. But if he's really against Voldemort, don't you think he would've informed Dumbledore about what he knew and was planning?


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  #13  
Old January 11th, 2007, 3:42 pm
meenaxi meenaxi is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

lmk67, by WW I meant the Wizarding World


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  #14  
Old January 11th, 2007, 3:48 pm
furrygreenthing  Undisclosed.gif furrygreenthing is offline
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i still believe that snape is on no one's side. i think the argument that snape stole the locket and framed Regulus is still very plausible, however. if snape is in fact out to gain power for himself, then he would want to take down both voldemort AND dumbledore, which would account for a motive to kill voldy and a reason to withhold info from DD. this might also account for the betrayal of regulus, because snape truly cares about no one but himself at present, even if he once cared about lily ( but that is another subject, and one which i am not entirely sure about). on the whole, i find this a very well thought out theory! bravo!


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  #15  
Old January 11th, 2007, 3:51 pm
Lyllia_Itory Lyllia_Itory is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Your editorial is very interesting and I almost took the bite. However, I did a quick little check in the book. Notice that when a character writes someing like a letter or note in the book, Jo has the publisher use a different font for each character. It is almost like each individual's handwriting. I checked the "Half Blood Prince's" writing from the same named chapter in HBP, as well as "RAB's" handwriting in the Flight of the Prince chapter. I am sorry to say they don't match. This completely nulifies the Snape framed Regulus theory. That dosen't mean he wasn't framed...just not by Snape. Sorry, nothing personal. Good thinking out of the box though. :>)


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  #16  
Old January 11th, 2007, 4:03 pm
Seeringrose  Female.gif Seeringrose is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

When I first read this, I thought I saw potenial (I may have spelled that wrong). Let me corospond using the number system you used.
1. I have no idea how the staff mebers thing came up, that was random. I do agree that other DE probly know or have a Horcrux in thier posseion. (speially bella)
2. We know aboslutly nothing of Regulus' talent at school so he could have very well done that.
3. He said in the note he left he would be dead by then. He has NO family, his parents are DE supporters and don't know the trouble he is in, his cousions are considered "the most loyal" and bis brother I believe was eather with the Potters or in prison. He would have no one to get hurt by voldy.
4. Since you have no proof either way on this at all, I feel I should ignore this section.
5. Okay you really are streaching it here, your using proof from the other side of this debate and twisting it to make it fit (and it dons't fit all that well either.) And I am pretty sure Sirius was in jail by then.
6. Why he was going to die anyway?
All in all you have got me convinced RAB is Regulus more then ever.


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  #17  
Old January 11th, 2007, 4:15 pm
Pla303  Female.gif Pla303 is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

I don't know. I mean, in book 7, is there time to figure out that Regulus was framed? How would that happen exactly? And then to find Snape when he's hiding out at Spinner's End. It would be a good way to prove Snape's allegiance and it would be better to have someone who's alive to explain it, but I don't think that's what happened. Regulus didn't really care if he lived or died at that point, I believe. So, it's basically that he's going die soon, so he might as well make it known that it was he who did it because Voldemort wouldn't be able to do anything to a dead man, except perhaps, spit on his grave.


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  #18  
Old January 11th, 2007, 4:55 pm
RichardofYork  Male.gif RichardofYork is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Nice theory. I wrote an editorial based on a similar theory a while back, but I ruled out Snape for some reason. If I remember why I'll let you know...


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  #19  
Old January 11th, 2007, 4:58 pm
vlasiou  Female.gif vlasiou is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

Why would a motive need to necessarily be deeply emotional? Even Lucius has a motive (and I am just picking a random name -I do not try to make a case for Lucius). The Death Eaters are under Voldemort because of fear or saddism or love for power or because it's Bella and she's really devoted. Any of the above are good reasons to try and destroy Voldemort. You may wish to destroy the man you fear the most or try to take over his position.

Pointing to Black is a good strategy in any case. Why would LV believe that it was not Black the one that stole the Horcrux (should he ever find out) when he believed that Black was scum/untrustworthy enough to be killed by him? Why would he start questioning everybody close to him if they stole his Horcrux when he believes that nobody knows that he has made a few? How would he start questioning people without letting them know that he has made some Horcruxes? He is too arrogant to even believe that his DE's know that he has made any Horcruxes let alone believe that they could be capable of bettering his defences. He has never realised that the locket was stolen (and I believe it is a consequence of his arrogance: he trusts his brilliant defences too much).

Which brings me to Occlumency. Indeed, a thief close to LV should be sufficiently good in Occlumency. Not because I believe that LV would ever think of questioning people around him "hey, did you by any chance steal a Horcrux of mine?" but because if you are ready to do so, then you are ready to betray him and LV seems to frequently check the minds of people around him. So your mind should never point to the direction that you feel like betraying him. So any thief should have the skill to keep his mind shut; not because he'd have to protect himself during an interrogation, but because every action he'd take or thought he'd have should not demonstrate his less than friendly feelings towards LV. Which may very well be why Regulus was murdered. He started disliking LV and his ideals and this showed. It seems however that mastering Occlumency is in the curriculum of every DE's training. Draco masters it and he plainly told Snape in his face that he may as well stop trying to read his mind because he won't be able to. Snape replied that he realises that Auntie Bella had been teaching Occlumency to Draco during the summer, which brings the total number of DE's who can perform Occlumency to three, one of them being 16. In short, it doesn't seem such a rare skill to be able to perform Occlumency and therefore I do not consider this argument to be of great importance in supporting this theory.

Ok, although I am not convinced that Snape did it or that a deep emotional reason is necessary for such an action (just a deep will to take over LV is good enough I think) or that Occlumency is all that rare and important in the equation or that there was actually any chance of LV ever interrogating his DE's (he is way to arrogant)...

... I still like the theory. Not because I think that it is extremely well motivated etc, but because it is a brilliant idea that anybody could have stolen that Horcrux and blame it on R.A.B. So thanks for the input!


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  #20  
Old January 11th, 2007, 5:03 pm
QuietlyMe QuietlyMe is offline
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Re: Who Framed Regulus Black?

First, as noted in prior comments, if Snape is powerful enough to find the locket, remove it without succumbing to the potion, and setting up RAB, why couldn't he destroy it himself? Why would he hide it in Sirius's house, assuming he would be allowed in (was it the OTP's headquarters even then, while Sirius's family was still alive)? And, as noted in previous comments, why wouldn't he reveal the location later to Dumbledore (if you believe that he is evil/out for himself, don't you think it would have been a good idea to remove it once Voldemort returned, Sirius returned, and the home became the OTP HQ?).

I believe the 'red herring' about Regulus is similar to the one about Peter Pettrigrew (aka Wormtail), Longbottom, Hagrid, and others - that we are led to believe they are less competent, less talented wizards than more obvious main characters (Dumbledore, Snape, etc.), when in fact they may be quite skilled and clever. Wormtail survives precisely because he continues to be underestimated. Longbottom was and continues to overlooked, even though he is obviously skilled in the non-glamorous field of herbology, charms, and may also be talented in defending the dark arts (remember how quickly he learned some of the anti-curses when practicing with Harry et al. in Dumbledore's Army during Order of the Phoenix?). Harry himself has survived and overcome the terrible challenges he has confronted up to this point largely because his enemies continue to consider him less competent/less talented/less clever/just lucky/etc. compared to themselves.

It would be fitting that Regulus, foolish and stupid in his older brother Sirius's view, as well no doubt in Voldemort's, would in fact be clever enough to retrieve the locket/horcrux, then hide it in his home just before being killed. If Snape were to be the actual thief, then we simply have one powerful wizard out-maneuvering another powerful one. However, if it were instead Regulus, then we would instead have another example of the underestimated triumphing over the overconfident. The Snape as RAB-imposter was very interesting, but seems counter to one of the underlining themes of the books.


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