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The Other Boy



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  #1  
Old January 12th, 2007, 8:02 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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The Other Boy

Discussion of the editorial The Other Boy by Dan Estes.


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  #2  
Old January 12th, 2007, 8:53 pm
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Re: The Other Boy

Rowling already said that the prophecy does not refer to Neville, even if it could have done so when it was uttered. Regardless, this really is an exercise in trying to twise Rowling's words to fit an idea: basically, it requires that she tacitly switches subjects from Harry to Neville in some sentences that she has uttered.

Neville almost certainly will play a role, but as a tertiary character.


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  #3  
Old January 12th, 2007, 8:54 pm
smyonson  Male.gif smyonson is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Interesting theory. I cant say that I believe it. But I won't be totally shocked if it happens. I think all will be crucial in the end of the series and all will play their part. But as far as the prophecy goes, I believe that it does specifically talks about Harry. Jo spent how many years dreaming up Harry's world, not Neville's, this is about Harry not Neville and thats why I feel that Neville wont be the one to finish it at the end, maybe jointly with the trio but not alone.


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Old January 12th, 2007, 9:07 pm
notasquib2  Female.gif notasquib2 is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

In the spirit of, "Who knows?" I am going to allow myself to be a little open-minded. It makes for an interesting editorial. I have always wondered why JKR said that the prophecy was so carefully worded and so ambiguous, and why it didn't state more plainly the connection between Harry and Voldemort. This is a possible explanation for all of the gray areas.

I do feel, regardless of whether this is how it play out, that Neville has an important role to play in the last book. He is at the top of my list for being killed off, although I imagine it to be in a duel with Bellatrix. I hope he takes her with him.

One last (laughable) thought: what if the power Neville has IS, in fact, Herbology? If Harry does away with the Horcruxes and then returns to fight Voldemort, wouldn't it be funny if Neville pushed Voldemort into the Venemous Tentacula or something equally ridiculous? It would be the most anti-climactic ending ever . . . but hilarious.

Nice job. You are certain to get a ton of posts for this one!


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  #5  
Old January 12th, 2007, 9:29 pm
Nobleone  Female.gif Nobleone is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I'm duly impressed with this one. I've always called JKR a genius, but I think it's her fans and Mugglenet who do her proudest. This is an extremely well thought out theory and one to be proud of.

I've always thought there is more to Neville than we've been led to believe. We have more of his back-story that we have for Hermione. Now, as I'm reading SS/PS AGAIN, I'll pay more attention to him and see if there's something I've missed - again.


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  #6  
Old January 12th, 2007, 9:47 pm
MattyI  Male.gif MattyI is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Very well written and entertaining!

Here's my one issue:

Quote:
AND THE DARK LORD WILL MARK HIM AS HIS EQUAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE POWER THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT...
and
Quote:
I do know of one significant advantage that Neville has over Harry in the fight against Lord Voldemort, and Im not talking about Herbology. I'm talking about anonymity
Aren't these two statements in direct conflict? If Volemort marks Neville as his equal, then he's no longer anonymous.


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Old January 12th, 2007, 9:56 pm
Nobleone  Female.gif Nobleone is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

That's the point, Voldemort has NOT marked Neville as an equal. He marked Harry. So if he is the prophesy's Chosen One, he's got the advantage of not being chosen by Voldemort - anonymity.


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  #8  
Old January 12th, 2007, 10:21 pm
MattyI  Male.gif MattyI is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

So, the article is saying that the one "marked as his equal" will NOT be the one that vanquishes him?


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  #9  
Old January 12th, 2007, 10:24 pm
Twycross  Male.gif Twycross is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I just love this theory. I think it makes perfect sense. It offers an ending as satisfying and climactic as any other suggested ending and it makes Neville (one of my favourite characters) become more signifigant than any other character except Harry. It would be a fitting end for Voldemort too be killed by a threat he never knew existed (or to paraphrase a power the dark lord knows not) like neville. Neville's motives against voldemort are even stronger than harry's too. Harry's parents got a quick noble death that saved thier son's life. The longbottoms however, were tortured in a long and slow process that drove them to madness. Neville has had to live with the knowledge that his parents are in that state. He has had too bear them being like that for his whole life. Harry couldn't know what that were like. He has lost the one's he cares about but not seen them changed or put beyond death. Which is Worse. But Neville has. His motives are clear. Neville deserves to finish of Voldemort more than anyone. J.K if you read that editorial (and I bet she will) and that's what you're doing then hat's off too you. Again.


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  #10  
Old January 12th, 2007, 10:34 pm
som  Undisclosed.gif som is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Very interesting theory, that is all I can say.

Deathly Hallows is definitely going to have a lot of twists and surprises, or Jo wouldn't have been so secretive if everything was obvious. I certainly don't want DH to turn out on how I'm expecting it to be. I want it to wow me. Oh man, all these theories and speculations is over exciting me. I can't wait for this book to come out.

Hurry Jo.



Last edited by som; January 12th, 2007 at 10:51 pm.
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  #11  
Old January 12th, 2007, 10:37 pm
aggiefan1206  Female.gif aggiefan1206 is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I have no doubt that Neville will have a significant role. I think that he may fight VOldemort at some point. But it hink that Harry must aCtually finish him off. I think that if neville were killed it could be protecting harry or trying to avenge his family. Although he has a score to settle with bella as weird. He may be the chosen one but i think that he will have chances to do great things. IT would nto be called Harry Potter if harry was not supposed to destroy voldemort. It would be about neville.


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  #12  
Old January 12th, 2007, 10:39 pm
NeonDisease  Female.gif NeonDisease is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I really like how your theory corresponds to Neville saving the day in PS/SS. As a whole, I think this is a wonderful theory and while people here will say they disagree with you just because they want the series to play out differently, I believe your suggestion is an interesting possibility that would provide an unsuspected and shocking twist. I would love for the final chapter to be called "The Boy Who Lived". It would be a poignant end if your theory turns out to be correct.

Kudos on a fresh perspective in the long drought between books!


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  #13  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:03 pm
griever_PLT  Male.gif griever_PLT is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Very good job, excellent editorial.

In addition I want to add another strong clue:

JKR:
"In effect, the prophecy gave Voldemort the choice of two candidates for his possible nemesis. In choosing which boy to murder, he was also (without realising it) choosing which boy to anoint as the Chosen One – to give him tools no other wizard possessed – the scar and the ability it conferred, a magical window into Voldemort's mind. "

"A magical window into Voldemort's mind" is not necessary for killing him, she doesn't say he has the tools to "vanquish" him like the prophecy proposed.

Plus, I found something interesting as well:

THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD APPROACHES...BORN TO THOSE WHO THRICE DEFIED HIM, BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES...AND THE DARK LORD WILL MARK HIM AS HIS EQUAL, BUT HE WILL HAVE POWER THE DARK LORD KNOWS NOT...AND EITHER MUST DIE AT THE HAND OF THE OTHER FOR NEITHER CAN LIVE WHILE THE OTHER SURVIVES...THE ONE WITH THE POWER TO VANQUISH THE DARK LORD WILL BE BORN AS THE SEVENTH MONTH DIES...

See the "..." between condition 1/2 and 3?

That could mean that point 1/2 (born in end of july from parents who have thrice defied him) already happened.
"..." proposes that the 3rd condition is not near in the time when 1 and 2 are fullfilled, so this could be another clue:
Harry is not marked as his equal(no, just like JK said, with tools to get into Voldermort's mind), Neville will be, like the author of the editorial pointed out, but I think this explanation might be helpful.

What do you think?



Last edited by griever_PLT; January 12th, 2007 at 11:17 pm.
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  #14  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:12 pm
pdhorner pdhorner is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I also must agree that The Prophecy must refer to Harry, due to Lord Voldemort's attacking him. You claim this is a ruse...but I don't see how.

We can assume for a moment that Lord Voldemort meant perhaps to kill them both, and simply went for Harry first. The fact remains the Harry has been marked, Voldemort failed, and Dumbledore has correctly conveyed the idea to Harry that his ability to love is indeed a "power the Dark Lord knows not". One cannot simply brush that aside.

Neville has been marked indirectly by Voldemort, because the DE's shattered his life, by taking away his parents. This is as close to a mark that Neville has received.

We must remember other things Dumbledore has said: Prophecies are not always fulfilled; It only matters because Voldemort places importance on it. He continues to hunt: Harry.

I know we can hide behind Dumbledore's admission that he makes mistakes, and big mistakes sometimes. But that does not automatically make everything he says suspect. Dumbledore is a knowledgable and powerful wizard. I believe he understands the implications of the prophecy and its ambiguity. I don't think he told Harry about it lightly, or flippantly. I think he knew what he was talking about.

All that being said, I love Neville as a character. He is brilliant. Dumbledore's actions at the end of PS/SS made me very happy. To acknowledge Neville in such a way was to help him find his strength. And we have seen Neville come into his own over the series. He will indeed have a major role to play in the final chapters. I do not doubt it. I would, in fact, be very disappointed if he did not. But Harry has shown himself to be, as Dumbledore tells us, "remarkable". Voldermort has chosen his enemy, and Harry has been marked, and has made his choice as well. Others will contribute, for Harry knows his limitations, but Our lightning-scar marked wizard will be the one to come through in the end...even if it costs him everything he has left.



Last edited by pdhorner; January 12th, 2007 at 11:18 pm.
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  #15  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:36 pm
ori  Female.gif ori is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I absolutely loved the editorial. I personally don't care about who's the "one", but I must admit that your editorial definitely opened my mind to more possibilities (especially since the "Harry is the chosen one" was sort of like a drilled fact in my head).

I think no matter what, Harry will remain the hero of the story, even if Neville is the one to vanquish the Dark Lord. I bet that if Neville is indeed the one, he probably will not be able to kill the Dark Lord if not for Harry's help. It is entirely possible that Neville has not yet been "marked as the Dark Lord's equal".
But I also really like the idea that the prophecy will come true because the Dark Lord chose for it to come true, and because he chose to go and try to kill Harry that night.

In any case, I personally would rather not have a firm opinion on who's the chosen one, so that I may have the chance to be surprised at the end by the brilliant misdirection in JKR's writing.


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  #16  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:43 pm
GryffinWildmage  Female.gif GryffinWildmage is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I don't think Neville is the Chosen One, but I do agree that he's going to play an important role somewhere.


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  #17  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:47 pm
Ticci  Female.gif Ticci is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Excellent editorial! Thank you!


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  #18  
Old January 12th, 2007, 11:50 pm
Xoria  Undisclosed.gif Xoria is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

Wow, nice theory. What if Neville is a half completed horcrux that Voldemort migbt have planted while trying to kill his parents. He could turn out to be like Quirrell and actually be clever and strong. Or he could be R.A.B. in disguise who has the real Neville locked up somewhere. And Harry? He's just immortal, no biggie.

What if?
What if?
What if...

P.S. I like this theory and knowing JK it's probably true. But I find it unlikely for this to happen. Now that Iv'e said this, I'm gonna be proven wrong, I know it.


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  #19  
Old January 13th, 2007, 12:03 am
LaDonna  Female.gif LaDonna is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

One thing I enjoyed about this editorial is that fact that I have found no way to disprove it. Usually when I read these theories or editorials, I look first for the obvious holes or concrete facts we know can disprove the theory. That way, it's easier to weigh the likely-hood of the theory. But in your editorial, there is no way to disprove it. I'm sure the people who disagree with you will find several things to say that they think shows you are wrong. In actuality, none of your arguements depend on solid fact. Instead, it's about interpretation and the series story arc (and since the end is currently unknown, it is impossible to say with certainty what the story arc will be). I'm not one of the people who think it's definately Harry the prophecy is referring to, although before I read your editorial I thought it most likely would be Harry. But I consider your take on the subject to be worthy of real consideration. I certainly cannot discount it, which means it has equal validity in my mind between Harry or Neville being the subject of that prophecy. I also thought griever_PLT had a fair thought with the spacing of the prophecy phrases. It's interesting. It comes down to whether each person who reads it sees the prophecy as ambigious or not. If they think it's clear and obvious, they would think it clearly and surely points to Harry. If they think it's intentionally not so clear, as you do, then it's easier to see how it could end up being Neville. Thank you for writing it. I enjoy new ideas and persuasive arguements.


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  #20  
Old January 13th, 2007, 12:55 am
OldMrToad  Male.gif OldMrToad is offline
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Re: The Other Boy

I remain unconvinced. A really well crafted essay, however I can ony classify it as wishful thinking.

In the fullness of time, we will all KNOW..

OMT


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