The Other Boy

[CaitlinFiona]

Very, very, very good. When I first read OotP, I had actually hoped that Neville was the one the prophecy referred to. But when Dumbledore, and then Jo, refuted that idea I went back to believing that Harry would be the savior of the world. After reading your editorial, however, my hopes of Neville playing a much larger role have been renewed.

The one thing I was surprised to not find in your editorial was the fact that Jo presented us with a juicy theory, sure to keep us guessing, and then proceded to completely deny the plausibility of said theory. I could understand inserting it into the book to throw us off, but to just put it there with no possibility of it occuring makes little to no sense. I think that by trying to draw us away from a theory makes it more possible for it to occur in future books.

Overall, two thumbs up!

[Emerald63]

My apologies, Mr. Estes, but I must disagree with your theory. While I feel Neville will have something important to contribute, I feel it may be of an added-on nature, not a pivotal one. Yes, his final ten points won the house cup in PS/SS, but the bulk of the points was won by the Trio. The final straw on the camel's back is necessary, but it's not all there is nor is it even the most important thing. Even without it, huge strides have been made. And having it without the other work doesn't provide that much. It's more a case of the right bit at the right time making the difference, rather than just the right bit on its own. Neville's ten points remind me of a "grace note" in music - it's there to embellish the overall composition, not establish the baseline or melody.

I did like your comparisons to other series in the fantasy genre, though, and I see your point about the "hero" not always being the one to put the final nail in the villain's coffin. It seems to me, though, that often the one who does pound home the nail does so inadvertantly, as with the example of Gollum. With that in mind I would be more inclined to see Peter Pettigrew or Snape being the one to add the grace note to Harry's orchestral contribution when it comes to taking down Voldemort.

Neville's great and I'm very happy that he's grown so and been able to come out of his shell. No one deserves to think so poorly of themselves as Neville once did. I'm sure he'll be there to help whenever Harry needs him, but these books are about Harry, first and foremost. Sure, Jo is great at misdirection, but she doesn't do it every time and she already seems to have set this one straight. No matter how hard you look for misdirection, I don't think it's here in this case. She may give Neville some very surprising and symbolic act to perform, but the big story is Harry's.

Congratulations, though, on thinking hard, putting together a well written piece, and impressing the MuggleNet staff enough that they published it. On that account, well done, sir.

The theory that Neville is the one has been around for several years now and has been proven wrong so many times from numerous different sources that I am amazed anyone still gives it any credibility. The most obvious proof Harry is the chosen one (or the one) is in the titles of the books: Harry Potter and the ... - not Neville Longbottom and the ... The other two sagas you refer to do not contain a name in the title therefore they do not identify an individual as the hero. JKR's books do include a name in the title; ie, they name a hero.

Sorry, but I cannot give your theory any credence.

[FelixiaFelicis]

Your argument is mostly based on a semantic detail. Yes, JKR used the term 'chosen one.' But how could she have made it any clearer that the prophesy does not refer to Neville? She told us that the prophesy refers to Harry. She is not trying to mislead you by using the term 'chosen one.' 'Chosen one' is as apt a term as any for referring to the boy named in the prophesy. If JKR wanted to leave speculation open to Neville being the One, she would not have said flat out that Neville was not the boy in the prophesy.

It drives me nuts when people will twist any simple statement to mean the most complicated, impossible things just because JKR has shut down their favorite theory.

Neville is awesome. He has true courage and he has been underestimated by nearly everyone. I hope that he will get a triumphant moment of some kind in DH. But Voldemort would never consider Neville an equal, and will never mark him as an equal. The only reason he regards Harry as an equal is because Harry has escaped him so many times that Voldemort is scared of Harry. Why would Voldemort suddenly decide that Neville is his equal???

JKR shut down the theory that Neville is the One. Give it a rest, already!

[skywards]

i read on here somewhere about the prophecy, & the point that it says 'the ONE with the power...' 'born as the SEVENTH month dies' 'to parents that have THRICE defied him'
& 31/7, harry's birthday. these numbers come up all the time (the trio, 7 pieces of soul, one dark lord & so on) & that's why, despite everything you've said, i think it has to be harry. his birthdate is in the prophecy, not nevilles. & i've always felt that harry & voldemort, they're the same person that made different choices. they've had equal chances & they've each taken a different road. thats why they're equal. obviously they weren't to start with. harry had parents that loved him, but by taking them away voldemort marked him as his equal & gave him what he had (in a roundabout sort of way. there are hints to it in COS). neville's parents were tortured by bellatrix, & i think thats where neville will come into his own. its obvious that he hates bella from OTP.
we aren't really talking scars here. it's all about choices. that's how the chosen one was marked.

but the number one rule with harry potter is never to rule anything out so i'm not going to cast it out completely. i think he could be important, just as i think the four heirs of the school houses will be. & the fact that the trio are a pure blood, a half blood & muggle born. everything matters until we know for sure it doesnt.

[Shewoman]

xoria--as far as we know, Voldemort never attacked the Longbottoms. Bella and her posse did that after Voldemort vanished from Godric's Hollow.

I also find this theory hard to accept. The Prophecy itself does not use the phrase "The Chosen One" and I think that taking that from JKR's answer to the FAQ about Neville and integrating it into the Prophecy itself is eisegesis. In that FAQ response she says, "So where does this leave Neville, the boy who was so nearly King? Well, it does not give him either hidden powers or a mysterious destiny." I think that shoots this down. She also said in the same statement, "If neither boy was 'pre-ordained' before Voldemort's attack to become his possible vanquisher, then the prophecy (like the one the witches make to Macbeth, if anyone has read the play of the same name) becomes the catalyst for a situation that would never have occurred if it had not been made. Harry is propelled into a terrifying position he might never have sought, while Neville remains the tantalising 'might-have-been." Her point here was to show that prophecies are not self-actualizing, that human choice (always a big issue with her) is instrumental.
A book that is, to all intents and purposes, "Harry Potter and the Boy Who Vanquished Voldemort" just doesn't seem right, somehow.

I can think of one way it could work out that way, though: IF Harry is a Horcrux and IF that means he must be killed in order to render Voldemort mortal (and there are debates on both of these issues), then Neville might be the one to step up and finish Voldemort off. But I think that if anyone other than Harry takes Voldemort down, it will be Snape.

[Padmehlc]

I also have to disagree with your theory. First of Jo is writing a fantasy series - not a mystery. And in that genre the hero is delineated from the beginning - it is not a surprise twist at the end.
Secondly two out of the three comparison examples you gave contradict the theory you were using them to prove. In Lord of the Rings it became pretty clear from the meeting at Rivendell that the Ring had started to take hold of Frodo. Gandalf recognizes it then and had already made sure someone else would be with Frodo at all times to help him - he didn't think he could do it on his own. Also whenever Gollum was mentioned with Gandalf he repeatedly stated that Gollum still had a part to play, that he would yet be important in the outcome of the mission. And while I was dissappointed that Frodo couldn't show any strength at all even at the end I wasn't surprised that it was Gollum who finished the job as it had been directly hinted at many times in the series (granted the movies skip over most of this so you have to have read the very long books many times to catch it).
Your other example was Star Wars - your statement made it sound like Luke was supposed to be the hero and Vader's death was the intended outcome but that was never the point. George had made it clear for a long time that Anakin (Vader) is the Chosen One and a balance in the Force was the goal - the destruction of the Sith and humbling of the Jedi. Anakin does that through the help of his son - not the way the Jedi originally thought he would but he does it. The story is his from the beginning on and he gives his life to do what he needs to do in the end by destroying the Emperor and returning from the Dark Side.

So in both of these examples it was the hero who was set up - or the person who was hinted to have a larger role who actually ended the conflict. Thus setting up a pattern for Harry to be the conqueror in the end. Neville would be more akin to Sam or Luke - they helped a great deal but in the end they had to let the real hero finish things off. (Granted calling Gollum a hero is a stretch but so would be calling Frodo one - both of them were corrupted by the Ring for all or most of the series and it was only the others around him that kept him going towards the end.)

[hilere]

I really don't believe that Rowling would intentionally mislead us personally as this editorial suggests she did on her website. In fact I KNOW she wouldn't as she specifically mentions this in The MN and TLC Interview:

"I've never, to my knowledge, lied when posed a question about the books. To my knowledge. You can imagine, I've now been asked hundreds of questions; it's perfectly possible at some point I misspoke or I gave a misleading answer unintentionally, or I may have answered truthfully at the time and then changed my mind in a subsequent book. That makes me cagey about answering some questions in too much detail because I have to have some leeway to get there and do it my way, but never on a major plot point."

Notice how she said unintentionally?
CASE CLOSED
I agree with Wimsey that this is a situation where someone is trying to twist Rowling's words. Kinda like what the people at Dumbledoreisnotdead.com are (in my opinion) hopelessly trying to do.
However I do like the foreshadowing idea with how Neville got the final points needed ... so I won't write this editorial off as completely misguided in my book.

[sondra]

I also read Krasner's interview and had the same ideas as Mr. Krasner. After thinking about it I figured it was to cliche and JKR is a GENIUS and would not fall back on that idea. She will give us something profound and surprise us all. If not I for one will be severely disappointed. I always believed there is more to Neville. He is living with the knowledge that his parents are locked in a living death. Neville like Harry still retains a loving heart. I'm looking foreward to what part he'll play in the end.

[hpobsessed09]

It seems to me that, although J.K. might have Neville play a somewhat significant role in book seven, he probably isn't "The Chosen One". The parallel to the Lord of the Rings series in here really struck me as the most plausible of all of the examples given. It is perfectly possible that Harry may take this burden all the way to Voldemort, but then be taken out of action somehow, leaving Neville to finish what Harry started. Also, although this may go slightly off the topic, the "power he knows not" may not be the obvious and oft stated "love"... it could be that Harry's real power lies in his friends, for example, Neville.

[GinnyPotter71]

You had me convinced until you said Harry being marked was a ruse. That is completely false. Honestly, the rest of it was stretched but I could believe, if only slightly. But Harry was marked with a scar, and by Voldemort going after him continually. There is NO getting around this. Good try, though, truly a well-written peice although it was twisting JKR's words to fit your theory.

If it was Neville who was going to kill Voldemort in the end, it would be called "Neville Longbottom and the Deathly Hallows"

oh plus, as much as you might take this as a clue, Neville basically was not in book six. And this can't possibly be a clue because even a mystery writer needs character development, like in making the character prevalent to the story. And after all of the revelations of Book Five regarding Neville's family and the prophecy, he is noticeably missing from Book Six. Sorry but if he were really important JKR would've included him more in Book Six because as she said, Books Six & Seven are more like a two-parter than two separate books.

[Sprocket]

Splendid essay. Just wish parallels might've been drawn from the works of Conan Doyle and Dickens mentioned, rather than, say, the George Lucas saga. I know how much the late student of mythology, Joseph Campbell, admired the work of the redoubtable film director, but archetypes from the genre the author placed Jo Rowling in would've been far more interesting. I wish I could cite examples of same, but alas I can't. I would like to invite the essayist to return with some of his own if that's alright with police.

[WoodsMom]

THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

I have always thought the ending of PS/SS would foreshadow the ending of what we now know as HP&TDH, but everytime I posted anything about reminding posters that it was Neville that pulled the win over Slytherin, I got a bunch of negatives.

I do believe there is a difference between the statements " the Chosen One" and the Boy who lived".

Awesome editorial!! GO NEVILLE!!!
sad to say I do believe that Neville will die as he sacrifices his life for his friends in LV's demise.

[Sprocket]

Originally Posted by GinnyPotter71

You had me convinced until you said Harry being marked was a ruse. That is completely false. Honestly, the rest of it was stretched but I could believe, if only slightly. But Harry was marked with a scar, and by Voldemort going after him continually. There is NO getting around this. Good try, though, truly a well-written peice although it was twisting JKR's words to fit your theory.

If it was Neville who was going to kill Voldemort in the end, it would be called "Neville Longbottom and the Deathly Hallows"

oh plus, as much as you might take this as a clue, Neville basically was not in book six. And this can't possibly be a clue because even a mystery writer needs character development, like in making the character prevalent to the story. And after all of the revelations of Book Five regarding Neville's family and the prophecy, he is noticeably missing from Book Six. Sorry but if he were really important JKR would've included him more in Book Six because as she said, Books Six & Seven are more like a two-parter than two separate books.

Neville's low profile tends to strengthen the case made in the essay, don't you think? Harry is central to the story, the primary protagonist, hence the title, but Neville could still be key in unraveling Voldemort's source of power.

[justaHPfan]

Thanks for a well-written editorial! I have to say, like others, that I can't buy it because I think it's too much of a switch at the end. If Neville throws the last punch, why are the books about Harry Potter? However, it was well-written and certainly gave us something interesting to read while we wait... and guess... and wait some more!

I loved that part at the end of PS/SS where Neville's 10 points push them over Slytherin. It was such a nice moment for everyone... except Slytherin, of course! But everyone loves the underdog!

[Sprocket]

One significant and possibly supporting omission in the essay is Neville's determination to avenge his parent's destruction at the behest of Voldemort. We sawr the vim and verve of the lad in the Dept of Mysteries shootout of Book 5. There's no lacking of will on Neville's part, clearly.

[vithu_dobbyfan]

Wow!!!! Fabulus editorial!One of the best in recent times in mugglenet!!!

1)Firstly, i should congratulate u for havin thought of somethin other than the usual RAB or "Harry dies" topics! 'Twas nice to read sumthin different for once!

2)I agree with your point that the first book of most series generally foreshadows the final one, in which case ur endin is very much plausible!

3)The examples u quoted from LOTR, Star wars, etc were very convincing!

4)Such an ending could easily be fitted in the series, finally makin everyone (even severus) believe that neville indeed was a powerful wizard; It sure would make his grandma proud!
Moreover, it increases the likelyness of Harry's survival at the end of the HarryPotter Series!

5)Ur language was gud n the extracs were nicely quoted n emphasized!

So finally, even though this theory of urs has only a very remote chance of happenin, it has given us sumthin to think while waitin for more updates from JKR!

P.S. : Has anyone here thought of the prophecy referrin to neville as follows :
"...neither (Harry n Voldy) can live while the other (Neville) survives..." ???
Wierd thinkin eh?

[bigbdm14]

I don't really agree with you because the emphasis of the books has always been choice and i think the books do a good job of explaining that the prophecy doesn't make it true but rather the choices of the people. yes, it says that Dumbledore makes mistakes but it also states many more times how choices affect the path of someone much more than words.

Your parallel to the first book was very interesting however i can't help but think Neville's activity happened very early with no danger to him and J.K. was just using it to build a little suspense in the resolution of her book.

Furthermore, your LOTR and star wars examples, i feel, don't truly fir the same pattern because in both examples it was the corrupted that finished it. They were not the evil as we expected, instead just weak.
But hey, what do i know? Just seems outlandish.

[Phil_Stone]

1) It would be interesting to see if the writer who inspired this editorial ever explained his reasoning for why Neville rather than Harry. THe author of the editorial might have made mention of it.

2) The author seems to treat the Prophacy as controlling the actions of the characters, rather than vice versa. It seems to me that JKR's point with prophacy is that is only as real as people read into it to be. Do the centaurs have any better accuracy? Or do they answer questions in riddles because they've been speaking like Sylvia Brown for centuries? JKR usually has Hermione give us the straight dope on the reality of the magical universe, and she seemed to characterize it as a "very wooly" field.

3) If JKR had taken half the care with writing the books as the author alleges she took with those particular answers, she would have already planted the clues to have Neville meet the requirements of the Prophacy. That is assuming the Prophacy has any significance to the finale. Is there any way in which Neville could be said to have been marked by Voldemort as his equal?

4) JKR drew some attention to a rare plant which Neville was cultivating.(Mirabulus Mimitoma?) No mention has been made of it since. I keep expecting the plant to come back. I believe Neville said it had strange curative powers. It might turn out that Neville uses it to cure Harry, or Bill, or even his parents. (Perhaps he will even have Snape's help in making the potion.) In the latter case, will have his victory even if he doesn't have a direct hand in VOldemort being vanquished. And the fact that it was others, including Auntie Bella, I think, who put his parents where they are, suggests that if he has his moment in combat, it will be a differrent one than this editorial suggests.

[inkling7]

Not bad reasoning although the Harry Potter books are not Star Wars TLOTR or Sherlock Holmes stories they are JK's. However I can think of Voldie forgetting all about Neville and then being shocked when he pops up and helps Harry vanquish him - accidentally or otherwise. I must admit I also thought of Aberforth Dumbledore doing this also but as both have most likely been underestimated by Voldemort then they both could be instrumental in his downfall by helping Harry et al vanquish him when he least expects is as all his focus will be on destroying Harry and not on the others.