The Other Boy

[pensievepeter]

Excellent editorial, very plausible theory.

You know, looking at some of the posts people are writing, people are missing some of the very obvious points this editorial is trying to make.

I really don't believe that Rowling would intentionally mislead us as this editorial suggests. In fact I KNOW she wouldn't as she specifically mentions this in The MN and TLC Interview:

"I've never, to my knowledge, lied when posed a question about the books. To my knowledge. You can imagine, I've now been asked hundreds of questions; it's perfectly possible at some point I misspoke or I gave a misleading answer unintentionally, or I may have answered truthfully at the time and then changed my mind in a subsequent book. That makes me cagey about answering some questions in too much detail because I have to have some leeway to get there and do it my way, but never on a major plot point."

I don't think for a moment that Rowling is lying to us either, what she has done in the past is equivocated the truth. My advice: read Macbeth, as it gives a perfect example of equivocating when the Witches give Macbeth their second triad of prophesies. Also a good way to buff up on the subject of self- fuffilling prophesies.

And about prophecies: We are not told explicitly how Voldie would mark "The Chosen One" as his equal. Meaning that Voldemort could very well have marked Neville as his equal by choosing not to go after him.

Excellent editorial.

[cenzonico]

Neville will probably have something to do with the final defeat of Voldemort. But the prophecy speaks only of one person. And unless he is marked in some way we don't know, then either he will have to be marked before the end or it is Harry. Nobody mentions that it was Dumbledore's opinion that the reason, or one of the reasons that Voldemort chose Harry, was because he is the half-blood of the two: Neville being pure bred. This I believe is a theme that Jo wants to carry through the series so I will have to go with Dumbledore on this one.

[hilere]

I don't think for a moment that Rowling is lying to us either, what she has done in the past is equivocated the truth.

Yes, Rowling has definitely mislead us throughout the series - that is the nature of the books. But the point I was trying to make is she has never purposely done so when posed a question as she tell us in The Interview. She answered this question about Neville to stop us wasting time theorising about him being the chosen one.

[focusf1]

interesting idea, have heard it before but you went steps further and merge it with well thought out ideas.

One thing: you never mentioned SELF-fulfilling prophecies.

This is precisely what Trelawney's prophecy was. I personally think it was made clear that Voldemort began the chain reaction to create his own worst enemy - Harry. And had he attacked Neville, then that would have created a chain of events leading up to Neville being the chosen one.

Although, the reason why I think it HAD to be Harry and IS Harry, is the fact that had Neville been orphaned, he still had family who loved him to look after him. Harry did not. And the whole point of the books is LOVE. It is the fact that Harry CAN love DESPITE having no living relatives who love him, show him love or even like him, that makes him the hero, the chosen one, and the one who will defeat Voldemort.

[inkling7]

I suppose the crux of the prophesy about the Chosen One is that Voldemort did the choosing and chose Harry and marked him as an equal (obviously not on purpose). Is tha scar the mark or is it some invisible power like being a parlsemouth which I think will have some use in destroying or at least finding Horcruxes. Perhaps if the locket at Grim Place is THE locket then to open it all yo have to do is say 'Open' in parlsemouth Shades of speaking 'Friend' in Elvish in the LOTR and the Mines of Moria). It would be just like Voldie to protect a Horcrux like that as aren't he and Harry the only two in the world that can speak parlsemouth?

However Neville as well as the power the Dark Lord doesn't know of or have. We think it is love and Neville has that power also as do others. They all know how to love Ron has his families love and Hermione's and she in turn has his love and her parents. Ginny has her families love and Harry's and they all love each other in their own way. Even Draco knows love and even Snape has been in touch with this emotion. What about everyone else - so many have the power of love.So is it the power as they can't all have it can they? Perhaps the power is not love after all but the power to inspire love or be able to love despite all the adversities life has thrown at you. Voldemort loved nobody and his life was just as miserable as Harry's so this could be the power - the ability to love people even though most of your life nobody showed you love. Lily gave Harry this power so that could be the power. Now Neville - his Gran loved him I guess but gave him a hard time as he hadf no confidence in his abilites and was so forgetful. Was his forgetfulness some sort of charm that backfired in a way but was put on him so he could forget some horrific event he might have witnessed as a baby - like the torture of his parents by the Bella and other DE's. After all where was Neville when this happened? Does anybody know?

[BatBogeyGrrl]

Very interesting theory. I'm not convinced but I am willing to listen. The editorial was well written, but for most of it I remained doubtful. JKR's words should always be analyzed, but you may have reached the point of over-analysis. It's good though that you're willing to stick out your neck by picking at some of Jo's more trusted words.

I found the closing section regarding parallel chapters fascinating. I particularly loved the last few lines of the editorial (and I suspect you had as much fun writing them as I did reading them). Keep up the good work!

[fortuna16]

Interesting theory, but I do not agree. This entire series has been about Harry growing up and completing his destiny by defeating Voldemort. I may be a bit hypocritical by saying this, but I think you were overanyalizing Jo's interview. Neville hates Volemort, but he has a vendetta to get revenge on Bellatrix. Harry has to avenge his parents, sirius's, etc. deaths. It was Voldemort who changed his life forever and he will have to pay for it.

[sondra]

INKLING 7 : I liked your idea of Parlsemouth opening the Locket makes perfect sense to me.

[lifter57]

Fine editorial - great food for thought

I am glad someone has finely addressed the potential that Neville may play in the final outing, not that I agree with your premise here but it was fun thinking about it and considering the ideas, so well presented.

You speak about foreshadowing - how about in POA when Harry is at the Leaky Cauldron and had just over heard Mr and Mrs Weasley discussing the Sirius Black issue (whether to tell Harry about Sirius). Harry's reaction is to speak out loud "I will not be murdered!"
Does this indicate he will survive or will he ultimately sacrifice himself for the greater good?

Now, how about the other character that has been developed on the fringes (until book 6) - I believe Ginny is going to play a huge part in the last volume but no one has even brought this up - I am not talking the romance (which may be her motivation) but she is a powerful witch in her own right and I see Ginny and Neville as characters developed like many crucial facts in JKR's books - somewhat hidden in plain sigh.

[kerri]

I havent read any of the posts, this is purley my thought process and my feelings on the matter.

First off, awsome editorial. Dont listen to those who have their minds set to one way of ending. We know JKR too well by know to expect a generic ending.

Neville has intruiged me since the first book. JKR included him qiute alot in book one and two, then his involvment with the trio took a backseat to Harrys problems. I believe JKR has done this on purpose. He's alway in the background as part of the frey, but, he is important.

Lets talk about where Nevilles coming from.

Nevilles Gran is constantly bugging him about how he doesnt bring glory to the family name, how he isnt living up to his parents popularity and strength. How they though he was a squib until his Uncle Algea put his life in danger. I can imagine how that low self esteem is going to boil over into anger, see OotP.

He surprised Harry with his determination and concentration during the DA. Neville had proven himself to be serious about avenging his parents torture, and I believe he will do just that. His parents torture is always at the forefront of his mind, see GoF when Harry opens the egg after the first task. He thought the screeching Mermish was people being tortured.

We've seen Neville go from an akward boy raised by his Gran, to a teen who has plans to kill Bellatrix.....but I think an oppurtunity is going to present itself in the end and Harry will witness his shy freind fight to the death.

Neville as the 'chosen one', who knows. You raise a good point , I raised my eyebrows a few times. In an eye opening way.

[outsidessence]

Brilliant, best editorial of the last year. What struck me most was the realisation that Neville could be the Dark Lord's Equal because the Dark Lord did NOT choose to mark him. However, I doubt that 'the power the Dark Lord knows not' refers to anonomity. It really has to refer to love, but we know Neville can love so that is not a problem. One image that keeps coming back to me is that of the stained window in GoF (movie) which seems to cry to reflect Nevilles anger (after watching the Cruciates). This serves to confirm the burning anger and desire for revenge that is clearly locked up inside him, he has more than enough motive to want to vanquish Voldy.

[Zili]

i think it could happen, terrific editorial, it gives a nice ending for the books, i'm sure Neville will play a big part on the book but i don't know, i'll wait for the book to come out

but the part Neville being the chosen one i don't think he is, although the part of him sacrificing could happen, like people have said that some character will help Harry give the final blow, or people saying that some adult wizard sacrificing to save Harry in the final confrontation, why not Neville playing that role?

[cdmHPfan]

I agree w/many of the points made in this editorial and lately have wondered if maybe DRACO is the one we're not supposed to look at.

My reasons for this are:
*Draco's birthday is in June and his dad is friends with the potions master who heard part of the prophecy. How hard would it have been for Snape to have warned them and given Narcissa a potion to deliver the baby a month early? This would be 1 or 2 acts of "defying the dark lord" - lying about the due date and moving it up early. Draco is described as pale and thin when we first meet him. A nod to him having been a potion-induced preemie?

I have always wondered about this too, but never thought of the potion to induce labor idea!! That's ingenius. I also wondered about where the Lexicon got the birthday of 6/5/80. Did JKR confirm or give this? But that birthday is also the sign of Gemini, the twins. It represents duality and being able to see both sides of a situation. Aslo of change and adaptability.

My other nasty little thought is; what if Harry is bait? Dumbledore knows that the prophecy is important because LV chooses to make it so. What if he has been cleverly feeding this to protect Neville. He has been training Harry to be the general in Nevilles war.

In any case, I love the editorial. I ALMOST enjoy reading the editorials as much as the books. The speculation, anticipation and camraderie of fans between books is what I'll miss the most when the series is ended.

What will we look forward too after Book 7?

[pantherjoe]

I would like to point out that people spend too much time worrying about the prophecy and who is the Chosen One and what is Neville's part, etc. etc.

The prophecy is simply a catalyst to get the whole story going. It is the reason Voldemort tried to kill Harry on that Halloween night. However, the prophecy is nothing more. Dumbledore says to Harry that it is our choices that make the difference. Choices are emphasized (albeit, subtlely) throughout the series, and it is within the choices of the characters that the key to the story is discovered.

[Dan_Estes]

Thanks to all for the excellent replies to my editorial. I especially enjoy the ones from those who still disagree – it's more fun that way.

I want to continue discussion on a few points that others have brought up or are still confusing for some...

The Nature of Prophecies
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In stories, especially epic stories, prophecies are always meant to be misunderstood things. Good writing depends upon readers being surprised by plot twists they weren't expecting. Prophecies are almost always either first heard incorrectly or misinterpreted entirely so that their true nature will be revealed in the end. So the argument goes something like this: Trelawney's prophecy is thought to be about Harry because he was attacked that night in Godric's Hollow and survived, but since prophecies are never what they seem, then it has to be about something other than what we're expecting. That's it. This is the lightweight logic that my entire theory rests upon. Without first believing this (or at least seeing the possibility of it) the remainder of the arguments seem far-fetched. Why would Rowling spend time carefully wording the text of the prophecy if it was meant to be obvious?

Why include Neville as a connection to the prophecy in the first place? It doesn’t make literary sense for Rowling to introduce Neville as a possible candidate only to permanently brush him aside before the beginning of the next book. What does make sense is for her to introduce the two candidates, and then push the correct one so far into the background that we forget about him. He will then emerge later right at the opportune moment when no one is expecting it.

The Chosen One vs. The One
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JK Rowling did indeed cite Harry as the Chosen One in her FAQ poll question response. This was my biggest headache given that I believe the prophecy has been misunderstood. The idea that "The Chosen One" might be a red herring formed during a reread of the series when I wondered how the term came about. I challenge readers to read HBP again and watch how the phrase "The Chosen One" evolves and is used. In Rowling's FAQ response she carefully and tactfully avoids connecting The Chosen One to the prophecy unless she's allowing Dumbledore to answer for her.

Here's my distinction between the two terms:

The Chosen One = The boy selected by Voldemort whom he believed was most likely to defeat him.

The One = The true subject of the prophecy, and the one who will cast the decisive, final blow against Voldemort.

Ask yourself if you think both terms are describing one boy or two.

Who can retrieve prophecies from the Ministry of Magic?
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My interpretation of this is that only those whose names appear on the prophecy can pull them from the shelf. This form of protection seems to be a charm put upon the objects by the ministry itself. Once pulled, the prophecies are fair game for anybody. Lucious Malfoy and the other Death Eaters seemed to know this, and in OotP they needed Harry to grab the glass ball first so they could then take it from him safely. So it doesn't matter that Neville physically handled the prophecy and was unharmed because Harry had already handled it first. I believe if Neville had tried to retrieve the prophecy first, even if he is The One, he would have been harmed.

It’s been suggested to me by e-mail that, from a literary perspective, it’s interesting that only Harry and Neville got to handle the prophecy before it was destroyed.

How is Neville marked?
---------------------------
If Neville is the true subject of the prophecy, then there are two general possibilities for this: (1) Neville was marked indirectly when Voldemort first attacked Harry. By choosing Harry, Voldemort put his true nemesis in the background only to emerge later at the crucial moment when it's most unexpected. (2) Neville hasn't been marked yet. This will happen in Deathly Hallows.

I tend to believe the second one, but it could also be a combination of the two. I don't have any guesses on the specifics of how Neville will be marked. I only know that we're too quick to assume that Harry getting his scar means he was marked according to the prophecy.

My editorial seems to indicate that I believe anonymity to be Neville’s key strength in the fight against Lord Voldemort. This isn’t entirely true, but I do believe it gives him an advantage since Voldemort’s focus will be primarily upon Harry. I suspect Neville’s greatest strength will be a combination of his Gryffindor courage and the mysterious “power the Dark Lord knows not.”

Choice vs. Destiny
----------------------
As Dumbledore said in CoS regarding Harry’s placement into Gryffindor rather than Slytherin, "It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." This is extremely significant because so much has been said about Harry having qualities that set him apart from others. Having Harry bound by the prophecy to destroy Lord Voldemort seems to undermine his ability to have free choice.

Will a victory by Neville diminish Harry's status as a hero?
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“If Neville was meant to defeat Lord Voldemort, then the books would be called ‘Neville Longbottom and the …‘” This is perhaps the most common critique of the theory. The Harry Potter novels are called by Harry’s name because he is the focus of the books, and the stories are told from his point of view. I don’t have a significant rebuttal for this other than using the example of Lord of the Rings again. That trilogy is named after the major antagonist we never physically see. Gollum destroyed the One Ring by accident, but only after Frodo and Sam brought it across 99% of the journey. Both Hobbits were considered heroes even though they would have failed without Gollum.

There’s much more to Harry’s story than whether or not he casts the final blow against Voldemort. Besides, much has been made of Harry’s complete and pure soul compared with Voldemort’s. Having Harry murder Voldemort (and yes, it would be murder) would split and tarnish Harry’s soul in a way that would be inconsistent with Harry’s character. He hasn’t murdered anyone yet (Never mind the movie version of SS/PS) so why should we expect him to kill Lord Voldemort in the end?

The Boy Who Lived as contrasted with The Boy Who Died
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Good writers (especially good mystery writers) are so talented at their craft that they can put the biggest clues to their mysteries right out in the open for all to see, and then they'll try their hardest to make you not notice. Remember the movie The Sixth Sense? Remember the part in the hospital room where Cole tells Dr. Malcolm how he sees dead people? His explanation gives away the solution to the movie's central mystery right there in plain words. The movie's creators were very concerned that this scene would give away too much, but they ultimately left it in. The result? Audiences were fooled, and the movie went on to become a huge blockbuster hit.

What if the answer to one of the major mysteries of the Harry Potter books, "Will Harry survive in the end?" was given to us on the first page of the very first chapter of the entire series? The reason we might not see it is because it lacks context. Between the two boys who fit the subject of the prophecy, from the point of view following the climactic fight against Voldemort, Harry could be seen as the Boy Who Lived while Neville becomes the Boy Who Died, or the Boy Who Sacrificed.

Thank you again for all of your replies.
~ Dan Estes

[ambroseboy]

I am jumping into the conversation mid-stream, so forgive me if I'm repeating anything anyone else has said.

My theory--and it's only a theory--is that there is a way for the prophecy to be about Harry but for Neville to play an important role in the elimination of Voldemort. And it does, in fact, have to do with Neville's gifts at Herbology!

We are told in book 2 that the scream of a fully matured mandrake root will kill its hearer. This is an unusual detail, and as far as I have been able to determine, is not part of the "standard" (if there is such a thing) mythology about Mandrake root. So why would JKR add this detail? We haven't seen it used--yet.

But Mandrake root isn't going to have any final effect on Voldemort unless all the horcruxes have been destroyed, and the only part of his soul left is the part still within his mortal body. I doubt anyone would argue that the necessary skills to destroy horcruxes are not Neville's strong suit, so that task is Harry's.

Harry will be the cause of Voldemort's defeat, by destroying the Horcruxes. (The prophecy uses the word "vanquish," not the word "kill") Neville, and his knowledge of Herbology, will see an opportunity to finish Voldemort off via a Mandrake scream. (Harry perhaps pulls the mandrake out of the pot--so that Voldemort dies "at his hand"--but Neville will be the one to see the opportunity. Of course, it could be that 'at his hand' means something else altogether, such as being "at hand"--nearby--which I like because there is great appeal to the idea, as noted in the essay, that Neville winning the house cup in book 1 is foreshadowing of Neville having an important role to play in the final defeat of Voldemort--even if Harry did the bulk of the work.)

This even--possibly--allows for the "reprieve" mentioned by JKR (assuming that this reprieve applies to Neville--we don't really know, do we?). It is possible that she originally had Neville die in the process (because we all remember book 2 when he did not attend to his earmuffs properly!) but decided that Neville has made enough progress to think quickly enough to protect his ears (perhaps by that handy little charm that they found in Book 6 that makes an odd buzzing noise in the ears, preventing a person from hearing what is said--another odd little detail that seems to have more meaning to it than preventing eavesdropping?)

As I say, it's just a pet theory I've been playing around with. It wraps up that odd detail about Mandrake, provides a further use for the charm from book 6 AND gives us a way to get Harry off-the-hook as a killer. Not to mention it adds a nice little twist to the whole idea of "hero."

(PS It also ties nicely into the idea found in much of the writings of St. Paul (a portion of which I just heard in church today) that the world needs EVERY person's gifts (great or small) in order to overcome evil in the world. We need Nevilles as well as Harrys. Doesn't that sound just like the kind of point JKR would want to make, as she wraps up this series?)

[blessed_dragon]

I love this editorial, mainly because it is putting ideas out there that are obviously controversial and different. But that is what we need in the fandom right now. Everyone wants a fairy-tale ending for Harry Potter, but fairy-tales are cliche. I want a story that will amaze me, wow me, and show me why I have spent half my life reading and obsessing over the same story because recently I have been wondering why I am still into these books. If Jo were to show us that Neville is really the one the prophecy is talking about, I would be caught completely off guard and I think a lot of readers need something like that. Wouldn't the book be boring if Harry went to Bill and Fleur's wedding, hunted down Horcruxes, had a few people killed along the way, hooked back up with Ginny and then finally defeated Voldemort at the end?
I would probably throw the book across the room.
So, maybe I am just a wishful thinker, but I think this theory is pretty well backed up and I would like to see things resolved this way. Harry is the main character but I think it would be nice to have someone else deal Voldemort the fatal blow.

[Emerald63]

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

From Post #39:
4) JKR drew some attention to a rare plant which Neville was cultivating.(Mirabulus Mimitoma?) No mention has been made of it since. I keep expecting the plant to come back. I believe Neville said it had strange curative powers. It might turn out that Neville uses it to cure Harry, or Bill, or even his parents. (Perhaps he will even have Snape's help in making the potion.) In the latter case, will have his victory even if he doesn't have a direct hand in VOldemort being vanquished. And the fact that it was others, including Auntie Bella, I think, who put his parents where they are, suggests that if he has his moment in combat, it will be a differrent one than this editorial suggests.

Oh, I DO like this idea very much!!! Whatever Neville contributes, I feel, needs to be unique to his abilities, something no other character could have done. He deserves that and all the acclaim it may bring him. Wouldn't it be astounding if the plant Old Uncle Algie gave him turned out to play a pivotal role in curing his parents? And I would simply love to see Snape's blank look of disbelief should Neville show up with a potion ingredient he, Snape, is unfamiliar with. Maybe Snape might have overlooked it, the way Voldemort overlooked "ancient magic." Of course I do want to see Neville be there for whatever big battle may occur, whether it's right at the end or along the way. But still, these other possibilities are just delightful. Thank you, Phil_Stone!

[darules]

ok first of all it is well written.

however you are twisting words to suit your theory

and can i take this moment to
AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

sorry it's just i cannot believe this is still a topic of descussion when it is quite clear harry is the one.
not to mention the fact jk in her faq section on her website debunked the neville is the one theory and told us why he is not the one

[Volodymyr]

I'm sure that I'm preaching to the choir here, and maybe this point has already been made, but...

If Neville were the One, Harry wouldn't be.

If Harry weren't the one, the prophecy wouldn't have been about him.

If the prophecy weren't about him, he would have gone insane when he picked it up in the Department of Mysteries.

Now, it would certainly be a curve ball if everything that happened to Harry after he picked up the prophecy were a figment of his imagination, but I somehow doubt that that's the case.