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The Eyes Have It



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  #1  
Old January 18th, 2007, 8:30 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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The Eyes Have It

Discussion of the editorial The Eyes Have It by Eric Ianson.


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  #2  
Old January 18th, 2007, 9:12 pm
Darktimes  Undisclosed.gif Darktimes is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Cool thoughts.....and perhaps I can agree that Lily's soul is still protecting Harry in some way....but the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory falls flat in the face of this question:

How did Voldemort create the Harry Horcrux? Slughorn states that it is a very complex spell.......Which more likely than not means the use of a wand to make it work. If this is so, then when does Voldemort have time to create the Horcrux? He only used the killing curse on Harry and it rebounded from Harry to himself, not in reverse. In GOF, the spell is not regurgitated by Voldemort's wand during the battle in the Graveyard.

So I can agree with the Lily sacrafice still protecting Harry. But the better question is: If Lily's sacrafice is still protecting Harry, then can it still repel the Avada Kedavra? Will Voldemort make the same mistake twice?


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  #3  
Old January 18th, 2007, 9:41 pm
som  Undisclosed.gif som is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darktimes View Post
So I can agree with the Lily sacrafice still protecting Harry. But the better question is: If Lily's sacrafice is still protecting Harry, then can it still repel the Avada Kedavra? Will Voldemort make the same mistake twice?
Lily's sacrafice is protecting Harry some other way, but it can't stop the Avada Kedavra curse. Harry would have been gone in GOF duel if it hasn't been for the wand brother thing (can't remember what it was called now) going off.

I've been Harry is a horcrux supporter for no other reason then that it is great twist. So any theories that gives support to that, I'm for it.

Quote:
Lily’s sacrifice merged her soul with Harry’s
The final Horcrux is in Harry’s scar
Voldemort taking Harry’s blood will ultimately lead to his demise
Harry will believe he must die to defeat Voldemort
Harry will survive in the end thanks to his mother’s protection
I'm not sure about lily's soul being in Harry. Is that even possible in the potterworld? How would 2 souls be together? The others I agree.

Quote:
If Harry is a Horcrux, why is Voldermort trying to kill him?
My answere to this question is that Voldemort might not know about harry being a horcrux. I think Voldemort is in the dark as Harry is now. We don't know how a horcrux is made so anything is possible. All Slughorn said is that the making of a horcrux is complex.


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  #4  
Old January 18th, 2007, 9:50 pm
xcginny  Female.gif xcginny is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

hmmm good theory but something just doesnt add up about it. and the 'gleam is dumbledores eye' when harry got back from the graveyard was most likely about wormtails sacrifice and his blood debt to harry.
i understand what you mean wiht the whole killing spilts a soul in half so maybe sacrificing meges two souls but something just seems unlikely


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  #5  
Old January 18th, 2007, 10:05 pm
focusf1 focusf1 is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I am a subscriber to Harry is an inadvertant Horcrux, more than likely his scar. Interesting ideas, I have been trying to incorporate Lily's sacrifice, and Harry's scar and the last Horcrux together for a long time. I have had some thoughts along this line, but thank you for going into detail.

One area where you could have expanded was "Voldemort taking Harry’s blood will ultimately lead to his demise" Any ideas?


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  #6  
Old January 18th, 2007, 10:10 pm
starlite18  Undisclosed.gif starlite18 is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Wait, I thought Lily's protection end when Harry turns 17? So, if that is true, doesn't that mean that Harry is officially on his own when he meets Voldemort on their final battle?


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  #7  
Old January 18th, 2007, 10:38 pm
vlasiou  Female.gif vlasiou is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Honestly, althought I don't believe a line of this editorial, I find it extremelly well-written. Good job! I will now go read what other people think and get influenced


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  #8  
Old January 18th, 2007, 11:08 pm
DrFlamelPhD DrFlamelPhD is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I viewed horcrux-making in a different way.

you say that "A [the dark wizard] kills B [the victim] and the soul piece goes into object C [the horcrux] (it is not necessarily a separate spell)."

I think it's more along the lines of the dark wizard kills the victim. At this point, the dark wizard's soul splits in half - suspended for a moment. Then, the dark wizard utters an incantation that transfers that half of his soul to the horcrux.

The reason a seperate incantation is necessary is because killing in itself does NOT create a horcrux. That would imply that any old wizard who has ever murdered has a horcrux.

But we know from HBP that killing rips the soul in two. The dark wizard USES THIS TO HIS ADVANTAGE (a paraphrased quote of Slughorn). This implies that the dark wizard must perform some form of magic after the soul has been split, a spell according to Slughorn, to complete the process.


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  #9  
Old January 18th, 2007, 11:52 pm
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eyes Have It
As crazy as that might sound, think about this: Perhaps, just as the “supreme act of evil” (HBP, Chapter 33, pg. 498) can rip a soul in two, the ultimate act of love (Lily sacrificing herself for her son) can fuse two souls together, a sort of reverse-Horcrux.
That? Totally freaking awesome. Of course there would be an opposite of Horcruxes, and of course it would be triggered by sacrificing yourself for someone. That just makes so much sense - I think I actually shared some of your epiphany whilst reading this editorial. Just... wow. Even if you aren't right, this is an amazing idea.


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  #10  
Old January 19th, 2007, 12:05 am
hpobsessed09  Undisclosed.gif hpobsessed09 is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

You have a very well thought out theory. You argued the point well and obviously gave this a lot of thought. I agree will you on "the eyes are the windows to the soul" part... but it doesn't nescessarily mean that her soul is in Harry. That may only be plausible if he didn't have green eyes before she died...of course there maybe something here that no body could know unless they viewed Harry's memories of that night, which of course would be very short, but that may be a key to this whole thing.


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  #11  
Old January 19th, 2007, 12:06 am
DJGoldstein  Undisclosed.gif DJGoldstein is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Let me begin by saying that I am both really happy about your editorial and really sad at the same time. I am happy because I've never read an editorial that I felt was more dead on, but I'm sad because I think you've spoiled the surprise of book 7. We all new that his eyes were a very important part of Book 7, but I haven't been able to find a good explanation of why. This is the perfect explanation. Harry and Lily are the opposite of a Horcrux. I don't know if I agree with you that Voldemort is restricted only to his scar, but I agree that the Horcrux within him is restricted. Really, Harry has three souls within him, that of his mother, Voldemort's soul fragment, and his own soul. I wonder if avada kedavra does not kill Harry because that curse is only meant to kill one soul. Perhaps it does not have the power to destroy Harry, and perhaps this is why Voldemort's curse rebounded. All in all, I am so glad you thought of this cause I never would have.


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  #12  
Old January 19th, 2007, 12:13 am
Weazleby  Female.gif Weazleby is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

This makes sense. I do believe Harry will live (or at least I'm crossing my fingers), but whether or not he is a horcrux is beyond my (and others') reckoning and guesswork. BUT, in the meantime....

Now let me try to preemptively address one of the main arguments against the “Harry is a Horcrux” theory (I know there are others, but I think this is the big one): If Harry is a Horcrux, why is Voldermort trying to kill him? [etc., etc.]

Well it kind of makes sense, but not all of it. Maybe Voldemort is trying to kill Harry because he honestly (weird term for Voldemort) doesn't know that Harry is a horcrux in the first place. Since it has been established that Voldemort has no physical/emotional/magical connection with his horcruxes, it could be possible that Voldemort only knows about the horcruxes he made up until that Halloween night. In fact, Voldemort was only aware of the destruction of his horcrux within the diary from book 2 because Lucius told him. So, if Voldemort doesn't know Harry is a horcrux, then of course he would try to kill the only one he believes could kill him. Because (and this is where I think the author is mistaken) the horcrux cannot be Harry if it is contained within his scar or skin. Dumbledore touched on horcruxes in living things, but not enough for my purpose. What if the person whose body contains the soul dies? Is the horcrux banished? Does it remain within the remains? If you think about it, if the horcrux is in Harry's scar and Voldemort kills him, then the horcrux is then ruined when his flesh decays (gross, yes, but use your common sense). Harry could be a horcrux, yes, but his survival all depends on the ability for the horcrux to move around OR if it can be extracted from an object/person without killing/destoying said oject/person.


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  #13  
Old January 19th, 2007, 12:51 am
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I agree with your idea that Harry is a horcrux of Voldemort. This is my theory on how it happened:

When Voldemort cast AK on Harry in Godric's Hollow the fragment of his soul he put into the curse became trapped as Harry's scar while the energy of the curse rebounded and hit Voldemort's already weakened soul. I do agree that Harry's scar is probably the horcrux but I am still not sure it can be removed without Harry dying. This is just my theory and I could be wrong but, until proven otherwise, I am sticking to it.

Overall a good editorial.


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  #14  
Old January 19th, 2007, 1:07 am
sondra sondra is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Some great ideas in your editorial . After the old magic ends at age 17, I can agree that Lily's some how still protecting Harry with the transfer of blood that is now in Voldemort, I hope its eating hem up with love inside. We will fined out in book 7. But the Harry's a horcrux theory I don't believe. Slughorn said that it is a very complex spell. So how could Voldemort do it. It would have to be done after you killed someone not before.


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  #15  
Old January 19th, 2007, 1:51 am
demonchild411  Undisclosed.gif demonchild411 is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I dunno about this one... it's put up quite a few red flags. The author has some good ideas, but I find it too implausible. I mean... everybody else is trying to debate wheter Harry has TWO souls inside of him (Voldemort's and his own), but this editorial suggests there are THREE (Voldemort's horcrux, Harry's own soul, and Lily's)?

I do very much like the whole "window to the soul" thing, and there has definately gotta be a mondo-huge reason why JKR tells us that Harry has Lily's eyes a million times per page.

And it's not necessarily true about the horcrux spell having to be AFTER you killed someone. I believe that the unnamed spell Voldy tried to cast in his fight with DD in the Ministry of Magic was the Horcrux spell. He was probably marking something (I like to think it was part of the statue) to be a horcrux once he killed Dumbledore.

And it's not necessarily true about the horcrux spell having to be AFTER you killed someone. I believe that the unnamed spell Voldy tried to cast in his fight with DD in the Ministry of Magic was the Horcrux spell. He was probably marking something (I like to think it was part of the statue) to be a horcrux once he killed Dumbledore.

And it's not necessarily true about the horcrux spell having to be AFTER you killed someone. I believe that the unnamed spell Voldy tried to cast in his fight with DD in the Ministry of Magic was the Horcrux spell. He was probably marking something (I like to think it was part of the statue) to be a horcrux once he killed Dumbledore.


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  #16  
Old January 19th, 2007, 1:54 am
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I have never been a "Harry is a horcrux" person, but I enjoyed your editorial. It was very well written and has caused me to do a lot of theorizing, which is what editorials and discussions are all about.


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  #17  
Old January 19th, 2007, 2:03 am
meanrice  Female.gif meanrice is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

I love it! I have been a longtime believer that Harry's Scar is a horcrux, or at least more important than an early detection system. I am intrigued by your theory regarding the significance of Harry's green eyes. Some of the previous posters pointed out that it takes a complex incantation to create a horcrux, and while we do not know what the time span was between Voldie's Avada Kedavara and his actual reduction to whatever he was after that, it is possible he could have recited it as he was "breaking down." But more than likely it was instantaneous, good essay though.


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  #18  
Old January 19th, 2007, 2:17 am
xXFireboltXx  Male.gif xXFireboltXx is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

a theory i had on harry getiing rid of the horcrux within himself is him attempting to jump into the veil and take voldemort with him. only he doesn't go all the way through, but his head does so the horcrux is released and then he may end up going on a spiritual quest with sirius as a guide. (note, part of this theory i got from red-hen) then for kicks, he comes out from the locked room ad the love inside detroys the dementors and the wizarding world rebuilds itself.


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  #19  
Old January 19th, 2007, 2:18 am
KevinSig  Undisclosed.gif KevinSig is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Quote:
Originally Posted by starlite18 View Post
Wait, I thought Lily's protection end when Harry turns 17? So, if that is true, doesn't that mean that Harry is officially on his own when he meets Voldemort on their final battle?
No, you're mistaken. Dumbledore's protection ends when Harry turns 17, not the protection he's gotten from Lily. And the exact nature of Lily's protection isn't fully understood, but it seemed to only help protect Harry from Voldy, and Voldy alone. Or am I wrong?

Also, why does everyone talk about Dumbledore's gleem so much? I personally thought that in HBP, Dumbledore himself pretty much said that it was because Voldemort confirmed Dumbledore's theory that he was using Horcruxes.

Kevin


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  #20  
Old January 19th, 2007, 2:26 am
Oceania  Female.gif Oceania is offline
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Re: The Eyes Have It

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Eyes Have It
As crazy as that might sound, think about this: Perhaps, just as the “supreme act of evil” (HBP, Chapter 33, pg. 498) can rip a soul in two, the ultimate act of love (Lily sacrificing herself for her son) can fuse two souls together, a sort of reverse-Horcrux.

Quote:
posted by Spritey:
That? Totally freaking awesome. Of course there would be an opposite of Horcruxes, and of course it would be triggered by sacrificing yourself for someone. That just makes so much sense - I think I actually shared some of your epiphany whilst reading this editorial. Just... wow. Even if you aren't right, this is an amazing idea.
Completely agreed. I can never say I am completely convinced with any editorial, but that is just a jewel of an idea! Really good work there! Since the moment I finished Half-Blood Prince, I thought:
A. Harry is horcrux
B. Harry will decide to sacrifice himself, and will come close to dying, but will not actually die.
C. Snape is either working for Dumbeldore or himself---not Voldemort.

So I guess we have pretty similar ideas (generally)...but a reverse horcrux, created by love...THAT my friend, is an excellent theory.


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