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Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:47 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Right on point....

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(From TotallyObsessed) IMO, Jo wouldn't start the second to last book with a chapter that only served the purpose of catching us up in a new way. That would be too random, and as we know Jo is not random about what she includes. Yes, she uses red herrings, but not an entire chapter that is just fluff, especially to start the book!
Another telling point about this chapter is that it is one of the very, very, few where Harry is not in the scene, either by seeing it personally, or through a dream or vision. The only other one where Harry is not involved in the scene in at least a peripheral way is the very next chapter, Spinner's End. (I don't think I am missing any other chapters in any of the other books, except for the very opening of PS/SS, and Harry is dropped off at the Dursley's, but of course that had to happen to introduce us to the series)


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  #22  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:12 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Maybe we had to see the contempt wizards have for normal humans, Scrimgeour really didn't think much of our Prime Minister. But also this scene is important because it introduces Rufus and, as I said in his character analysis, something is very wrong with him and his first showingmust be of some unknown importance.


  #23  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:46 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Was "the other minister" the chapter that JKRowling said she was going to use in one or two of the other books, but decided it would go better in Half Blood Prince? I know she said thought about bringing up horcruxes in Chamber of Secrets, but obviously didn't. But I seem to recall somewhere she said something about the chapter with the prime minister being another thing she was going to introduce earlier. Am I delusional? Perhaps I better rephrase that--am I delusional about this?


  #24  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:52 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Yes, the Chapter "THE OTHER MINISTER" was intended for a prior book. I believe she intended it to be used in CoS, but for various reasons, mainly that she couldn't fit it in at the time, it was held until HBP.


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  #25  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:54 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

MaWeasley
Quote:
Was "the other minister" the chapter that JKRowling said she was going to use in one or two of the other books, but decided it would go better in Half Blood Prince? I know she said thought about bringing up horcruxes in Chamber of Secrets, but obviously didn't. But I seem to recall somewhere she said something about the chapter with the prime minister being another thing she was going to introduce earlier. Am I delusional? Perhaps I better rephrase that--am I delusional about this?
I don't know if I did that right, but to answer your question, No, your not delusional. I think she said that too. I posted an idea about what that could mean a little lower down if your interested.


  #26  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 2:30 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Thanks totallyobsessed, I'll look for your post.


  #27  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 2:37 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Thanks a lot.


  #28  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:04 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

hwyla, in a this post on "Snape: The Hero" in Legilimency Studies, proposed a really cool theory about the PM and Chapter 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwyla
Several things happen within range of #10 Downing Street - none of them are mentioned as related, but I believe they were. First - the neighborhood around #10 is a very unlikely spot for a wizarding home. Lot's of activity and security - often the center of media coverage. This is not somewhere a witch would pick to make home - not unless she was hoping to be noticed by muggles and mess up the whole secrecy thing.

So - unlike Madam Bones - Vance was not at home when she died. Additionally the muggle Prime Minister complains that she died right around the corner, practically in his backyard. I'm betting she was killed outside. It's not strictly necessary, but he does use outdoor terms.

Now - in all the events that happened over that one week, MOST of them took place around #10. Vance dies. A Junior Minister is Imperio'd. And not only is he imperio'd but someone magical noticed and sent him to St. Mungo's. Lastly, Kingsley has been working inside #10 for a few days.

I think Vance was captured and killed while interupting the Imperio on the Junior Minister. He continued trying to strangle healers, so the imperio actually worked, but I think he kept quacking because the DE was not too sure of his/her Imperio and used the quacking order to be sure the Imperio took. I think Vance interupted before the order was given to stop quacking. She was there as an Order member on guard duty. Just like when the Order was guarding the door to the DoM.


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Last edited by arithmancer; February 3rd, 2007 at 4:07 am.
  #29  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:19 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

i dont feel like theres that much else to the chapter... i think that the other minister chapter was put in there to show us the severity of the situation, and to introduce scrimgeour. and as for looking in the wrong spots for the answers to the last book...well, this is a story about the wizarding world, not the muggle world.


  #30  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:26 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Voldermort doesn't just want to rule the Wizarding world, he wants the entire world to be his. He wants to reign death and terror on everyone, especially the muggle world that his father, who rejected him, was a part of. He sees muggles as arrogant and rude and he would like to put them in their place, under his feet. So the Prime Minister need to be aware of the pending war also. There are many more muggles than wizards, and they could win a war against Voldermort if they have enough numbers, but they need to be prepared first .


  #31  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:27 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
About Kingsley I agree, but I think that since his introduction in OoTP he has only played peripheral parts. Now that he has been introduced as The Prime Minister's bodyguard it seems to suggest that the MoM does fear for his safety. Hence, since JKR made a point of us knowing this too, it could be that we will see a direct assault on the Muggle World, by trying to undermine the Muggle authorities, namely The Prime Minister.
Of course none of us knows whether there will be an attack on the Muggle world or not, but I thing it's quite likely. I don't think it will be an all out assault, but I do believe that "acts of terrorism," if you will, will occur on the Muggle world. Though, you can say this has already occurred, as with the Bridge and the inclement weather discussed in Ch. 1 of HBP.

I have a hard time believing Kingsley will play a very important part in the book, if for no other reason than that JKR already has a thousand or so questions to answer in this book, that I don't think there will be a whole lot of time to explore too many new characters, let alone an already periphery character (As you said) such as Kingsley. We have so much we still have to learn about established characters (ie Lily, Dumbledore's motives, Snape's motives, R.A.B., etc etc etc).

I think that Kingsley's - and several other people's - character arch will not be brought to a close with DH.

...Unless DH is 1265 pages long....


  #32  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:30 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
This has been nagging at me like a piece of steak caught between my teeth. I just keep digging at it, but just can't dig it out.

Why did JKR feel that we needed to be introduced to "The Other Minister"?

We already knew that some things of the Wizarding World, especially in times of turmoil, spill over to the Muggle World. But JKR devoted an entire chapter to introducing us to the leader of Muggle Britain, but after that, she has nothing to say about it.

If it was merely to introduce us to Scrimgeour, she could have done that another way, without introducing the Muggle World.
Well, it gave us information about what's been going on from the Ministry point of view as far as changes, and we learned a bit of what's been going on both in the wizard & muggle worlds because of Voldemort's return -- dementors leaving Azkaban & breeding, murders, giants destroying parts of the muggle world, etc.

And you have to admit it was a much more interesting way to give us the information. I thought it was very entertaining.


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  #33  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:30 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Just to show us that Voldy is affecting the Muggle world too.


  #34  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:17 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by tofo579 View Post
i dont feel like theres that much else to the chapter... i think that the other minister chapter was put in there to show us the severity of the situation, and to introduce scrimgeour. and as for looking in the wrong spots for the answers to the last book...well, this is a story about the wizarding world, not the muggle world.
Correction: This is a story about a boy, who happens to be a wizard. Though most of the story takes place within the confines of the Wizarding World, the author has made a point to show that both worlds exist side by side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahner13 View Post
I have a hard time believing Kingsley will play a very important part in the book, if for no other reason than that JKR already has a thousand or so questions to answer in this book, that I don't think there will be a whole lot of time to explore too many new characters, let alone an already periphery character (As you said) such as Kingsley. We have so much we still have to learn about established characters (ie Lily, Dumbledore's motives, Snape's motives, R.A.B., etc etc etc).

I think that Kingsley's - and several other people's - character arch will not be brought to a close with DH.

...Unless DH is 1265 pages long....
In the new movie, OoTP the character Kingsley Shacklebolt will be introduced. We have noticed that many of the events in the other movies have been changed to fit the time constraints, and avoid confusing non-readers with too many characters. For instance, we have never seen Peeves The Poltergeist. We all love Peeves for his comic relief, but he really does not add to the story. Mrs. Figg has not been mentioned, either, though she helps Harry. Gillyweed was suggested directly to Harry by Neville, though in the book it is Dobby who gives it to Harry after having overheard it.

Since the writers consult with JKR on the script, and she tells them if something is integral to the story, or can be changed without hurting important future facts, I conclude that Kingsley has a much more important role in Book 7. Since he is now The Prime Minister's Bodyguard, and JKR has made a specific point of introducing us to The Prime Minister, I find it telling that something important will happen concerning him.


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  #35  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 1:36 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

It's not Shacklebolt you need to look out for. It's Scrimgeour.


  #36  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 2:26 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
It's not Shacklebolt you need to look out for. It's Scrimgeour.
I don't doubt that Scrimgeour is a piece of work, and not to be trusted, but that is not the point. It is the Prime Minister and Shacklebolt I am concerned about. LV gaining control of the Muggle leader could be disasterous.


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  #37  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:26 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Since the writers consult with JKR on the script, and she tells them if something is integral to the story, or can be changed without hurting important future facts, I conclude that Kingsley has a much more important role in Book 7. Since he is now The Prime Minister's Bodyguard, and JKR has made a specific point of introducing us to The Prime Minister, I find it telling that something important will happen concerning him.
No, that is definitely a good theory, and it's been proven to point in the past with the movies. But Mrs. Figg is also in the new movie (played by an actress named Kathryn Hunter), and there have been other characters in other movies who have been there and have not provided any sort of substance to the story (and some characters who have been turned into not having any substance, such as - unfortunately - Filch).

I don't believe that because a character is necessarily in the movies that they will play an integral part in what's going on in the books. But I do agree that your theory has merit. I guess we'll just have to wait and see, and if you're right, I owe you a Coke


  #38  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:35 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
I don't doubt that Scrimgeour is a piece of work, and not to be trusted, but that is not the point. It is the Prime Minister and Shacklebolt I am concerned about. LV gaining control of the Muggle leader could be disasterous.
And so could Scrimgeour trying to take over the Ministry by using popular support and well placed "gestures", such as having the Chosen One endorse his rule.


  #39  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:48 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by Ronny View Post
And so could Scrimgeour trying to take over the Ministry by using popular support and well placed "gestures", such as having the Chosen One endorse his rule.
Agreed. I think it would be much worse if either 1) The MoM was lost to the dictatorial rule of a Minister such as Scrimgeour, or 2) If Voldemort got his hands personally on the reins of the MoM.

I think Scrimgeour is even more sinister than Fudge was (if that's possible). I wouldn't even put it past him to do something like endorsing Voldemort - now back in the open anyway - as not a "bad guy" and form some kind of truce or ceasefire with him if it would assure his position as Minister.

But Rig is kind of right. This is a bit off topic...


  #40  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 4:51 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

No, he wouldn't make peace with Voldermort. Scrimgeour has suffered greatly at the hands of Death Eaters, mark my words, if he gained power it would be out of good intent.


 
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