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Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?



 
 
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  #81  
Old February 28th, 2007, 3:54 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by Sasblack View Post
i loved this chapter i liked it because one of the best things about the whole world of HP is that you can believe it is real and somewhere just out of sight, its delicious!

My neice was praying for a hogwarts letter on her 11th birthday!!

I think it serves to show how the normally well concealed wizard world is being broken down by LV and the MOM are loosing control as well as being a novel way to introduce the murders and terrorism that has been going on without having to have a mundane "oooh whats in the prophet today then.." type of conversation.
I love your post. It finally offers something that not only goes against my thinking, but does it with a bit more original thinking. My ideas are that there is going to be a takeover of muggle government by Voldemort, but yours has a single statement that may explain it best: "I think it serves to show how the normally well concealed wizard world is being broken down..."


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  #82  
Old February 28th, 2007, 4:43 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Yes, I believe it shows us the connection of the two worlds and shows us how they can rely on each other because they really do affect each other. There is a balance that is needed and shows the importance of both.
I agree. I think she wanted us to see how much the wizard war affected everyone, and not just the magical community. Also, it lets us see the devastating effects that Voldemort's followers are capable of.


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  #83  
Old February 28th, 2007, 5:59 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

I think it was a way to tell us about the harm Dumbledore had done and its actual scales, which go out to the Muggle world as well.


  #84  
Old February 28th, 2007, 9:35 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

I'm sure I read a JKR quote somewhere saying that the first chapter of HBP was one that she'd thought about using in previous books. That would imply that the main motivation for the chapter was more to do with showing the general relationship between the muggle world and the wizard world, not as a major part of the plot.


  #85  
Old March 1st, 2007, 1:25 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Did anyone else get the feeling that the Muggle PM was based on Tony Blair?

The thing is, according the timeline the PM would have been John Major. The PM before him was Margaret Thatcher, which (in the non-fictional world) is contradicted by Fudge's 'He tried to throw me out of the window, thought I was a hoax by the opposition.' comment about the PM's predecessor. I couldn't imagine Major doing this, but Maggie Thatcher? Most definitely!

Of course, if it was Blair he could try blaming the Iraq debacle on being under the Imperius curse. 'Look everyone, it wasn't my fault (earnest smile, emphatic hand gesture). This really evil wizard drank something called Polyjuice Potion to make himself look like George and then put me under a spell which made me do whatever he told me to.'


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  #86  
Old March 1st, 2007, 3:52 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by JJC View Post
The thing is, according the timeline the PM would have been John Major. The PM before him was Margaret Thatcher, which (in the non-fictional world) is contradicted by Fudge's 'He tried to throw me out of the window, thought I was a hoax by the opposition.' comment about the PM's predecessor. I couldn't imagine Major doing this, but Maggie Thatcher? Most definitely!
This has been driving me NUTS. I am a stickler for historical accuracy, and if it's 1996, then the PM is Major, and when Fudge talks about the last PM, SHE tried to throw him out the window. (And that's precisely what she would have done.)


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  #87  
Old March 1st, 2007, 4:14 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

i think it was to show how the whole voldy problem reached outside of the wizarding world, and that wizards weren't the only one's affected. i don't think that the prime minister holds any huge part in dh, i just think it was a good way to show how large the war was.


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  #88  
Old March 1st, 2007, 4:40 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Heh, as we've seen in a few other contexts, the exact math of the wizarding world isn't allowed to get in the way of the story narrative. So, the whole John Major / Margaret Thatcher thing might fall under that purview.

Alternative explanation: Fudge revealed himself to one of Thatcher's deputies, since he did know Thatcher would pitch him onto the streets.

Aside from a plot device to introduce what happened between the end of OoTP and the beginning of HBP, I think that seeing the PM also served to note that the muggle world is in extreme danger of being revealed to the wizarding world. The Obliviators must have been going nuts from the time LV revealed himself trying to cover everything up.


  #89  
Old March 1st, 2007, 4:51 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

You're correct KW, Jo posted on her site that she had originally written the chapter to go into Chamber of Secrets as back story to set up for what was going to happen in prisoner of Azkaban, when the muggle prime minister was told of Blacks escape. But the editors cut it out because the book was already so involved, and she's been trying to put it back in ever since. Thats why it really has nothing to do with HBP, she just finally found some space. Of course I do think the chapter was important to the series as a whole. It is ludicris to think that the wizarding officials wouldnt keep some contacts within the muggle government for emergency purposes, someone would need to do the explaining just like we have those government officials that tell us UFOs are swamp gas


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  #90  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 1:45 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Jo has said that she isn't really basing the books on any happenings of the real world. She has led us to believe that any similarities are coincidental. This means that whoever she placed as Prime Minister of the UK is not meant to parallel any current or past real person. The only character in her books she modelled after a real person was that fool Lockhart.


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  #91  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 3:12 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

It was a fictional prime minister. Like in little britain. Wouldn't that be funny if it was the same fictional prime minister.


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  #92  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 4:39 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

So far in the series our contact with the muggle world has been limited - you hear bits of what's going on, but usually in a second-hand way, like when Arthur Weasley mentions having to go and clean up the mess after some nasty anti-muggle prank has taken place. The chapter 'The Other Minister' isn't a perfect start to HBP by any means (I read it again this morning and I skimmed thrrough it pretty quickly), but at least it shows that muggles are beginning to be seriously affected by goings-on in the wizarding world. It's no longer just some random people having a strange experience with a regurgitating toilet, or whatever; it's now widespread events on a large scale which have been noticed by the government. No-one is safe anymore.

So the chapter has a worthy purpose. The problem with it is that it spends an awful lot of time recapping what has happened since book 3 (which suggests to me that JKR did indeed want to have something like this chapter in one or two of the earlier books, but had to edit it out). A much shorter version of 'The Other Minister' might have worked - some books have no more than a page or so of an introduction, but it still is enough to set the scene.

I suspect the film of HBP will skip over the first chapter and go straight to Spinner's End. It would be interesting to have the muggle-and-wizard Ministers meeting, but I suspect they won't want to spend too much time going over old bits of story.


  #93  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 9:44 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

I think it was just a nice strategic way to show how deeply the muggle world has been affected along with the wizarding world. Not to mention an appropriate way to introduce Scrimgeour.


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  #94  
Old March 2nd, 2007, 9:54 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

I think showing that the Muggle Government is experiencing problems due to Lord Voldemort shows just how disruptive Voldemort can be, and this is only on a small scale. Can you imagine the craziness that may be present in the final book? With Dumbledore gone and Bellatrix on the loose with Greyback too, there will be a lot more destruction. I really look forward to reading how Rowling presents this final novel: Snape's perspective and the events in the Death Eater camp; Harry's journey; Hogwarts; the past as shown by the Pensieve. There will be a lot to keep us readers amazed.


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  #95  
Old March 3rd, 2007, 12:20 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

Can you picture the parallel that would be presented if Voldemort decided to fight the war on two different fronts like the Wizarding World and The Muggle World at the same time...It would be like the Germans taking on Russia on one side, while taking on the other Allies on the other.

Whew!

If he were to do that, it would be his worst mistake.

Actually the best thing he could do would be to get them to fight each other. Then walk in like he owns the place.


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  #96  
Old March 4th, 2007, 1:51 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

As regards the Margret Thatcher thing, has it ocurred to anyone that this might be a joke? I.e. Fudge spoke to Thatcher but failed to realise that she was a woman?
And the PM is more Major than Blair. Blair had yong kids of his own when he moved to number 10 and as such would not need to give the hamster Fudge conjured from a cup to his neice.


  #97  
Old March 4th, 2007, 1:58 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

I think it is to show the involvement of the muggle world in the war in the Magical world and how Lord Voldemorts actions are affecting the muggle world and placing pressure on the muggle government.


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Old March 27th, 2007, 10:10 pm
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

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Originally Posted by Harry10 View Post
As regards the Margret Thatcher thing, has it ocurred to anyone that this might be a joke? I.e. Fudge spoke to Thatcher but failed to realise that she was a woman?
And the PM is more Major than Blair. Blair had yong kids of his own when he moved to number 10 and as such would not need to give the hamster Fudge conjured from a cup to his neice.
JKR has said that she has only written one character to mirror a real life person: Professor Lockhart. Whoever the poor git is, she has evicerated him in fiction.

That being said, we can assume that JKR has not lampooned Tony Blair, John Major, or Margaret Thatcher. We can also take heart in the knowledge that she has not metaphorically hung any other real public figure in this series.


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  #99  
Old March 28th, 2007, 9:37 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

It was great, seeing the other side of the coin! How the magical Minister gets in touch with the PM...yes, I liked the chapter as well!
Now, I'd like to see Tony Blair playing the PM, in HBP, he'll be retired by then won't he?


  #100  
Old March 28th, 2007, 9:49 am
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Re: Why did JKR feel it was necessary for us to know the Prime Minister of Britain?

i love that chapter. the thing that i loved in the first book was that you could really believe that there was a wizarding world hidden amoungst our world and this chapter really reafirmed that.
Not to mention that V's work not going un noticed by the rest of Britain was hardly going to happen so of course the PM had to be informed.


 
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