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Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 2:03 pm
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Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

WARNING: This is a spoiler free area. For all Deathly Hallows discussion, please head to The Deathly Hallows Forum. Any posts in this thread that are considered to be spoilers shall be deleted by staff. Thank you.

Link to Version Four
Link to Version Three

So...the final book of the series, Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. Will Harry survive?

Last few posts of V4:    


  
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaun0505 View Post
Dumbledore obvioulsy knew loads about the prophecy at that point so hes saying, even if Harry does defeat Voldemort, he will still have his scar. I'd hate Harry to die. What a way to end the series. But I think if he did, Jo wouldn't make the ending depressing, she'd find someway of making it happier and jolly, to the best of her abilities as a writer anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by siebensprung View Post
I don´t know if Harry will die (but I hope NOT). This is something I found out while I was searching a proper dictionary for deathly. While I studied a German dictionary about the expression deathly which is tötlich in German I found an interesting synonym for it. deathly=tötlich means sterbend and sterbend means going to die, it´s a process of dying. Therefore a person who looks deathly is probabaly someone who will die, not that the person is already dead. Does it help a little?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xirtalleb View Post
An Evening with Harry, Carrie and Garp August 2, 2006Soledad O'Brien: I'm going to pose the final question to you and I'd like all three of you to take a stab at it. You can do it in any order that you would like. If you were to have dinner with any five characters from any of your books -- take a moment to think about it -- who would you invite, and why would they be on your list? Any order.
JK Rowling: Well I'd take Harry, to apologize to him (crowd laughs). Um, I'd have to take Harry, Ron and Hermione.
Stephen King: Sure.
JK Rowling: I would - this is - (crown shouts suggestions).
Stephen King: Hagrid, take Hagrid.
JK Rowling: See, I know who's actually dead.
Stephen King: Pretend you can take them anyways.
JK Rowling: Pretend I can take anyone? Well then I would definitely take Dumbledore. I'd take Dumbledore, Harry, Ron, Hermione...and.. (crowd shouts characters) um, Hagrid. I'd take Hagrid, yeah. And Owen because he wouldn't take up much space (crowd laughs). "
I think that j.k saying she would invite harry to apologize is pretty much telling us that something extremely horrible is going to happen and i think she is apologizing for killing him Harry is going to die. I would like that ending it would be nice sad but nice (nice if he also defeated voldemort)
  

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  #2  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 3:25 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

yay! first post.

no, i don't think it would, because that would be going against the theme that good always wins. and anyway, this is a kids book, so i think it would upset them if he did die.


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  #3  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 5:53 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Will Harry Die?

I hope want & pray NO. I hope he's the one JKR gave a reprieve to.

But I'm scared for Ron and Hermione. I can see them saying "you have to go through us first" and Voldie saying "OK" & blasting his way through.

Will Harry as we know him survive?


On a slightly different theoretical basis though, I can see Harry AS WE KNOW HIM not surviving.

Suppose...Harry, with a time turner, goes back and kills Voldie, or, as they do in hero land, "arranges for Voldemort to die...by the hand of another or by bizarre accident brought on by villian's own eviltude..."

This would change the time line, and Harry as we know him may disappear.

Unfortunately this would pave the way for a multitude of sequels.

If Harry dies, our window into Hogwarts & the magic world will close, and the series will be over.

We will long for the rest of our adult lives to return there.

Now that's a great end to a children's book series.

The End.


  #4  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 6:23 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by walkingideas
I think Harry will die after destroying the Horcruxes and killing Voldemort. It is sad, but Harry's duty , his reason to live, was to defeat Voldemort.
Getting rid of an Horcrux is really difficult and it weakens you a lot ( let's remember Dumbledore's hand ). After destroying 4 of them, I don't think Harry will be fit enough to survive an atack on Voldemort and even if he does, I think Harry would have prefered die. Shocked?
Well, we know by experience that harry likes to take shocking decisions ( He doesn't want to go back to Hogwarts for example ). He is determined to just kill off the guy who killed his parents and thats it. Thats the only thing that matters. He forgot about education, his girlfriend and even wanted to leave his friends out.
I think life after the Second War for Harry would be very sad, because he would always have to remember, what he went through, all the battles, all the people that were killed.
And anyways, don't take Harry's death too bad, don't be egoistic, he wants to join his parents and Sirius.
I think you bring some really important things up in your agument here. For a long time I really felt quite the same way. I thought Harry was a character who could never reach literary compleation untill he was aloud to get his one true desire: family. I though for the first five books that Harry would have to die to really be compleated; that way he could be with his mom dad and Sirius. I agree with you as well that if Harry succeded in killing Voldie he would be too big, too grand a character to continue on.

However I have changed my opinion after HBP. When Rowling gave Harry Ginny, she gave him a life after DH. Ginny is Harry's character compleation. She fufills his greatest desire, family. Through her he can marry into the Weasley's, as well as start his own family.

Also, we see through Dumbledore it is posible to continue living a life after defeating a powerful dark wizard. This along with the Ginny plotline makes me believe Harry will survive DH.


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  #5  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 6:28 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestrin View Post
I though for the first five books that Harry would have to die to really be completed; that way he could be with his mom dad and Sirius. I agree with you as well that if Harry succeded in killing Voldie he would be too big, too grand a character to continue on.

However I have changed my opinion after HBP. When Rowling gave Harry Ginny, she gave him a life after DH. Ginny is Harry's character completion. She fufills his greatest desire, family. Through her he can marry into the Weasley's, as well as start his own family.
If Harry survived by strange temporal loop, ie he got 18 years grace so he could fulfill his destiny of killing Voldie....

Ginny could just be JKR's way of making us feel that Harry lost a future when he died, making us feel regret, rather than that he is a literary character with a destiny to die to fulfill plot points.

Ie, he's still going to die, but we'll regret it more.


  #6  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 6:36 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
However I have changed my opinion after HBP. When Rowling gave Harry Ginny, she gave him a life after DH. Ginny is Harry's character completion. She fufills his greatest desire, family. Through her he can marry into the Weasley's, as well as start his own family.
I have always felt that Ginny has given Harry more purpose than just defeating the Voldemort and saving the world, but I have never thought about her giving him a potential life after DH, and now I think about it you are quite right.

Whether this will make a more tragic death by killing him, or a more meaningful life I am divided on: there are so many advantages and disadvantages of both situation.

If Harry does die JK will have to make sure it isn't an anticlimax after 7 books, in other words his death will have to have meaning and he doesn't just die for the sake of it. I am inclined to think that if he does die he will die for love, either for Ginny, his friends or the whole human race, as love is a recurring theme throught the books and it would almost complete the circle.


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 6:58 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

What I hope will happen is that when he kills Voldemort it will be out of self sacrifice type thing to only have his scar disappear and he will looklike a normal 17 year old boy , and marry Ginny , but I'll have to read book 7 to find out if that even could happen I mean Voldemort and Harry 's fate are intertwined like Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty and both of them will have to die to free the world of evil but I still hope that Harry will survives and marries Ginny and have a family together .


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  #8  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 7:04 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Personally I think Harry will die. Voldy and Harry's fates are intermingled.


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 9:47 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Okay, broken record girl is here! I figured I could restate my case in the new thread, so that you don't all just think I'm a horrible fan who wants Harry dead

Anyway, basically I think it's likely that Harry will die and be reunited with his family, or die and come back from beyond the Veil, having at least met them again one more time. I mainly believe this because Voldemort, Harry's rival, is so terrified of death himself - so terrified that he would even split his own soul to avoid it. Harry is a parallel of Voldemort in lots of ways, but he's also very different; he makes good choices, he's brave, and he loves others. I think that, because of this, he'll give up his life for someone else - which will put a stress on the differences between them, since Harry will have done what Voldemort is so blindly scared of, and he'll have done it in the name of saving someone else.

However, I think that he may be given a choice of coming back, and that he'll take the chance if he's given it, because he's really got a lot to live for.

Quote:
and anyway, this is a kids book, so i think it would upset them if he did die.
Doesn't work, I don't think.

Quote:
Have you ever thought "Maybe I should tone it down"?

JKR: No. I know that sounds kind of brutal but no, I haven't. The bottom line is, I have to write the story I want to write. I never wrote them with a focus group of 8-year-olds in mind. I have to continue telling the story the way I want to tell it. I don't at all relish the idea of children in tears, and I absolutely don't deny it's frightening. But it's supposed to be frightening! And if you don't show how scary that is, you cannot show how incredibly brave Harry is. He's really brave, and he does, I think, one of his bravest things in this book: He can't save Cedric, but he wants to save Cedric's parents additional pain. He wants to bring back the body and treat it with respect.
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DR: ... and if you've just joined us, we have a real treat this morning, having J.K. Rowling with us. She is Joanne Rowling, the author of the Harry Potter series. Three books that have ignited young *and* adult readers all around the world. If you'd like to join us 1-800-433-8850. What age group are you actually aiming for, Jo?

JKR: When I'm writing, I don't aim for any - any age group. I write these books entirely for myself. And in fact, before - before my British publisher Bloomsbury told me that they were going to market the books as for 9 year olds and above, I really had no idea. A vague idea, obviously. I mean, I was aware they weren't for 3 year olds, and I knew that probably 19 year olds would be wanting to read other stuff, although I've met quite a few 19 year olds since, so that's - that's a really nice thing. The optimum age, I'd definitely say is 9+ for these books.
Here and here.


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 10:06 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567 View Post
yay! first post.

no, i don't think it would, because that would be going against the theme that good always wins. and anyway, this is a kids book, so i think it would upset them if he did die.
J.K.Rowling has said and i will find the quote that she doesn't write the book thinking about how the little kiddies reading it will react she writes it the way she wants to which is fair enough its her book and i don't think she wouldn't kill harry off just because all the little kids will get upset


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 11:00 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I think Harry is definitely going to vanquish Voldemort. Whether he'll die or not...I'm still undecided. I couldn't bear it if he lost his powers and became completely muggle. I'd rather he died.


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 11:52 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I really, really hope not. JK set it up perfectly for him to live. He has the Weasleys to be his family now, he will never have to see the Dursleys again....If he destroys Voldemort, he will have the chance to turn his life around completely, he'll be able to start over.

JK has also said that Harry is now realizing that Ginny is the girl for him. Why would she make him realize that if it's only going to last for those few short weeks in the 6th book? That would be completely pointless, I don't believe she would have spoken about their relationship in that way if she was going to do no more to continue it.


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Old February 3rd, 2007, 11:55 pm
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I think Harry will die. JKR wants to leave absolutely no room for other authors to write subsequent or prequel novels. The best way to accomplish this would be to kill Harry and Voldemort.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:10 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuer_lisse View Post
I think Harry will die. JKR wants to leave absolutely no room for other authors to write subsequent or prequel novels. The best way to accomplish this would be to kill Harry and Voldemort.
JKR has said that, although she can understand writings killing their protagonist to prevent other people writing about them, she herself has never been tempted to do that. If Harry dies, it will be because that's the story, and it's been the story since the beginning.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 12:16 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

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Originally Posted by hphphp62442 View Post
I really, really hope not. JK set it up perfectly for him to live. He has the Weasleys to be his family now, he will never have to see the Dursleys again....If he destroys Voldemort, he will have the chance to turn his life around completely, he'll be able to start over.

JK has also said that Harry is now realizing that Ginny is the girl for him. Why would she make him realize that if it's only going to last for those few short weeks in the 6th book? That would be completely pointless, I don't believe she would have spoken about their relationship in that way if she was going to do no more to continue it.
Yeah but JK has also said that her books are sometimes cruel. So that few weeks could be the knife to twist in the readers as Harry looses Ginny or is lost himself.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 1:00 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I don't know if I'm right, but for the first time I feel like I know what the title means before I read the book, and that is important to this question.

There are a lot of hints in the books, which say things along the lines of Harry looking back later, as if to indicate he thinks back on them many years later. But more to the point, let's consider what happens in this book that we can reasonably expect.

OK, Rowling has definitely not promised that Harry lives. However, we know from the prophecy that Harry, Voldemort, or both will have to die. Now frankly, while Harry could die, if Voldemort kills him and lives himself, I really don't see how that is a satisfying end. So option 1 seems closed to me. Either just Voldemort dies, or both Harry and Voldemort buy it.

OK, part 2. A LOT of people have sacrificed to keep Harry safe and alive. Do the deaths of his parents, Cedric [yes, I know Cedric wanted to live, but remember what he and Frank said in Goblet of Fire when Harry had the showdown with Voldemort], numerous members of the Order, indirectly Sirius and Albus Dumbledore make sense in the end if all they did was let Harry die later? I don't see changing 'The Boy Who Lived' into 'The Young Man Who Died Anyway' as a satisfying plot.

And finally, the title. "Deathly Hallows". Ahhhhhhhhhh, there's a carefully chosen phrase.

"Deathly". NOT "Deadly", not "Dead", but "Deathly", as in contact with Death, but not dying himself. It implies help from the dead, as we saw foreshadowed in 'Goblet of Fire', and it reminds me of what Voldemort fears most. Since Voldy fears death, there is no way he can access help from the other side, and I doubt he's got a lot of friends there anyway.

And "Hallows". As in to make holy, but more important, Hallows, not Hallows' <i>Eve</i>, which is Halloween, but Hallows, as in the next day. The title clearly implies that Harry will be finished with the events and enemy of Halloween, Voldemort who killed his parents, and will be able to move on, to the 'next day' and on with his life.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 6:28 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

JKR has carefully kept open the possibility that Harry could die. She acknowledged the scenario where the writer kills the character to keep them theirs for eternity. But it struck me as odd because its really a non-issue. Could anyone ever concievably take up Harry Potter without JKR's permission? Harry is already locked in as hers and only hers, so the death based on closing off Harry to other authors seems pointless since hes closed off to them alive. Yet JKR made a point of acknowledging it. I think she wants to keep us guessing and in suspense.

The series, its message and themes point more toward Harry living. Throughout the books Harry lives against increasingly astounding odds. But he has suffered terribly along the way. To kill him upon achieving final victory would be too cruel. Seeing his parents and Sirius and Dumbledore again wouldn't be enough. He has more on the ground going for him in Ginny and Ron and Hermione.

Its not as simple as saying "you cant kill him because it will upset the kids." Let us not forget that this series has likely upset most people already. Cedric's murder was disturbing, Sirius's was upsetting, Dumbledore's was downright crushing. The series has already established through those deaths, especially Dumbledore's that heroes often meet their end unnaturally. The series has not been all miraculous victories for the Light Side in Harry's triumphs and escapes. This series has also been filled with predictable and inevitable numerous victories that evil wins.

Then there is the wizarding world to think about. These people as a society have given Harry very little but pain. The society is sufficently sunken prejudice and corruption to deserve what its getting. They don't desserve to be saved by Harry's sacrifice. It would do much more than frustrate many of us. The peace after the war will be botched by whoever is left to lead the wizarding community and minimal change will insue because all the wise leadership was killed in the war. It's happened before in our world. It would be too real for it to be presented in HP.

It would also seem too cruel to Ginny. Sure, its not as though they were married or anything like that, and yes she could move on and have a happy life. But she would always remember and wonder. Can someone ever really move on from something like that? This is a situation that has occured too often also. And we all already knew it. Why insert despair into a series that has been about hope? I look at Ginny more as other people have mentioned, as evidence that Harry has a purpose after Voldemort. She has been explicit in saying that Harry is not a Christ figure. She has also been careful to say again and again that that the prophecy is only significant because both Harry and Voldemort have chosen to take it seriously. So you can't say Harry came into the world for the sole purpose of killing Voldemort, it isn't true to the message about destiny and the gradual ascension of Ginny as Harry's ideal girl reinforces this.

Harry is clearly willing to die to get rid of Voldemort and would not hesitate to sacrifice himself for those he loves. This doesnt mean that it must be so. It is critical that Harry is willing to do as his mother did. In the end I think it will be like when he looked into the Mirror of Erised; one willing to lay down their life for others will be able to vanquish Voldemort and live.

Death is present throughout the whole of the series. But while keeping it real, with innocents and good guys dying, she has also cultivated a refined and hopeful presentation of the subject. In Order of the Phoenix Harry heard voices behind the veil. This was a subtle but obvious confirmation to Harry that there is definately something on the other side. Before the moment when he talked about it with Luna Harry viewed death simply as the end. JKR presents that view of death without Dr. House's "let's make sure you know that your existance and your pain and suffering is all for nothing". JKR has routinely injected a tone of mystery and hope into the subject.

Perhaps this could be viewed as preparing the reader and Harry for his ultimate demise. At least he'll see his dead loved ones again. But while this could be a comfort to Harry, the one who has almost literal proof that death isnt just "the end", it is little comfort to us, the readers who have no such comfort as voices from beyond the veil, and we who have Dr. House weekly to give us our dose of depression. I think its a bad way to end the series. It pretty much says "Do the right thing kids, and even if you die, and die you probably will, and violently by the way, (since most people who do right in the face of evil do) and you will be with your dead loved ones in the beyond... if there really is one." Its not really an uplifting message and not at all consistent with the rest of the series. Even in the books that end in darkness, GoF, OotP, HBP, there is still the lingering hope. This is present in the last line of each of those books. Harry's death would just bring about the line "so what was the point of all this?"

Then there is the "Frodo" argument about Harry as we know him dying and maybe not being enough left to go on. I just can't see this happening. Harry is stronger than people give him credit for. I get surprised when people think he won't defeat Voldemort without Ginny holding his hand or something as if it wasnt his inner strength that got him through every serious crisis in his life. Sure Harry "cracked up a little" in OotP. But that was more a natural outgrowth of the strain he had been put through for five years and coming to the realization that it isn't going to end. By HBP though he has revived perceptably. His resolve has never been stronger. He isnt damaged goods to the point that he can't function, interact and love and he never will be. One of the keys to Harry's greatness according to Dumbledore was Harry's ability not to let evil corrupt or change his fundamental core. Predicting that Harry living would just leave severly damaged goods is inconsistant with what Dumbledore called "the incomparable power of the soul that is unbroken and whole."

For these reasons I think he will live. The series will end on its strongest message of hope. The good person can conquer evil totally. I think we will see Harry come out older in spirit and very weary. And who wouldnt be? The series has also been about Harry's education in a realm of magic outside of spells and potions-- corny but true. Harry will emerge from this thing with more wisdom than most people achieve in their lifetimes.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 9:52 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

i can see two sides to this. if harry dies then something will happen to voldie which will make all his powers go, making him a squib, he will then end up working in hogwarts (as he has always had a conection with the place) and realise there are much worse things then death, especially when no one believes that he used to be the best wizard there ever was, though i can't work out how he wont go to azkaban if he loses all his powers, maybe just because he wouldn't be able to use magic to kill anyone anymore.
but if voldie dies, then harry survives which is then a proper childrens book because the good always win. and what was the point in J.K.R. creating such a charcter to kill him of, though i suppose that at least no one could carry the story on for her.
so as you can see i dont have a answer for this question, we are just going to have to wait for the book to come out.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 10:44 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

I also think that Harry will survive because I don't think he will be given a choice to sacrifice himself, if you know what I mean, because Voldemort would never let him live. Voldemort might kill him, but to me, that would be murder, not Harry sacrificing himself. It would be VOLDEMORT's decision ot kill Harry, and Harry's bad luck not to avoid it, and anyway how would Voldemort be killed? I know some people will disagree with me, but I don't think they can be connected so that by killing Harry Voldemort kills himself, or the prophecy would have said "neither can live when the other dies", and following the prophecy wouldn't have been a choice for either of them.

The idea of someone sacrificing his- or herself for a cause has to involve a choice. Lily sacrificed herself for, and saved, her son because she was given the chance to live and she turned the opportunity down to protect her baby son. That's what sacrifice is about: deciding to die to help someone/something else. Can you really see Voldemort giving Harry the chance to live?? Someone else (Snape? Wormtail?) sacrificing himself for Harry, maybe, but LV letting Harry live? Don't be daft.


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Old February 4th, 2007, 11:07 am
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Re: Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

Quote:
Originally Posted by xirtalleb View Post
J.K.Rowling has said and i will find the quote that she doesn't write the book thinking about how the little kiddies reading it will react she writes it the way she wants to which is fair enough its her book and i don't think she wouldn't kill harry off just because all the little kids will get upset
ahh, okay, i wasn't aware of those quotes. thanks for pointing that out to me.


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