Will Harry die in Deathly Hallows? v5

[inkling7]

Since Albus didn't want to have Draco murder or kill anyone intentionally then I doubt whether harry - the hero - will be given that task either whether in anger or not. I think he vanquish Voldemort some other way - but I don't really have a clue how at this stage as there are so many ways it could be done without Harry actually doing the deed directly. However he could do it indirectly I suppose - or be the cause of it?

[calgary]

I don't think Harry will do the killing at all. LV will be gone though. The key will be with Snape and what his true character is. I do see Harry surviving this. There would be a rough justice if Snape comes through, but everything hinges (I think) on him. In fact, Harry's fate is directly through Snape.

[MarissaCalderon]

JKR'S BIG BOO-BOO

I was reading Quiddich through the Ages & Fantastic Beast and it says the publication date is 2001 (I believe...). So if this is true then all the text that was written inside the book must be of that time. So we can assume many things like- Harry, Dumbledore, Hermione and Ron all live.

I mean if JKR really did kill off Harry and Dumbledore they wouldn't be in the foward, right? Or did she make a big mistake?

[Nobleone]

I've been on the fence on this for a long time. On one hand, in the veil scene Harry seemed to really cotton to the idea of being on the other side, and then in the end of OOTP when Voldemort was possessing him, it was his love for Sirius and his thought that death wouldn't be too bad that caught me off guard. It really felt like foreshadowing...

But, even with that, it seems that seven books is a fairly long journey to take if in the end Lily's sacrifice was for nothing. So that fence is really high.

[Lord_Kaine]

Originally Posted by inkling7

Since Albus didn't want to have Draco murder or kill anyone intentionally then I doubt whether harry - the hero - will be given that task either whether in anger or not. I think he vanquish Voldemort some other way - but I don't really have a clue how at this stage as there are so many ways it could be done without Harry actually doing the deed directly. However he could do it indirectly I suppose - or be the cause of it?

I agree with what you're saying, but who's gonna give him that task? And would he see it as a task, or a must do thing to survive?

Now I don't think it will end with Harry doing an Avada Kedavra, and I hope it don't end with the power of love surging forward into Voldemort. I'm more for the Patronus and the Veil theory. The only question is how Harry will survive and complete something no other wizard has been succesful in doing. It wasn't even because of him that LV was defeated in the first place, it was his mother. And now, he will not be protected by her sacrifice anymore. So what is he going to do against LV and survive in the process?

[nickfaceelbow]

Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80

'You, boy,' she said suddenly to Neville, who almost toppled off his pouffe, 'is your grandmother well?'
'I think so,' said Neville tremulously.
'I wouldn't be so sure, dear,' said Professor Trelawney, the firelight glinting on her long emerald earrings.'

I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80

'By the way, my dear,' she shot suddenly at Parvati Patil, 'beware of a red-haired man.'

I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80

'Unfortunately, classes will be disrupted in February by a nasty bout of flu.'

Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80

'And around Easter, one of our number will leave us for ever.'

Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80

'Incidentally, that thing you are dreading - it will happen on Friday the sixteenth of October.'
Lavender trembled.

Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81

'Oh, and dear -' she caught Neville by the arm as he made to stand up, 'after you've broken your first cup, would you be so kind as to select one of the blue patterned ones?'

In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82

Professor Trelawney was staring into the teacup, rotating it anti-clockwise.
'The falcon... my dear, you have a deadly enemy.'

Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82

'The club... an attack. Dear, dear, this is not a happy cup.'

Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82

'The skull... danger in your path, my dear...'

This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83

'Oh, and dear -' she pointed at Neville, 'you'll be late next time, so mind you work extra hard to catch up.'

The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169

'I dare not, Headmaster! If I join the table, we shall be thirteen! Nothing could be more unlucky! Never forget that when thirteen dine together, the first to rise will be the first to die!'

McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:

Harry and Ron got up first from the table and she shrieked loudly

I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:

'Sybill, this is a pleasant surprise!' said Dumbledore, standing up

This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170

'If you must know, Minerva, I have seen that Professor Lupin will not be with us for very long.'

Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

[Lord_Kaine]

nickfaceelbow, the detail about Dumbledore getting up first was something I didn't think of, neither the detail about Wormtail being at the table. But it is correct, when I think of it. Impressive indeed.

I'm beginning to wonder if you're correct, is there more to Trelawney's random predictions than we know? Since it has been proven that she has given at least two prophecies, why portraying her as an old fraud just talking about gibberish.

As an add-on: Trelawney did foresee the moment of Dumbledores death, didn't she? I don't remember where, but she did mention something about a lightning-struck tower.

[AnnaSofia]

Yes when she had the cards she said to Harry ( but to DD too ) that whichever card she picks is the lightning-struck tower.
I think that Neville was able to see Thestrals because he saw his grandfather death.

[nickfaceelbow]

She did. I think it was in the Half-Blood Prince, but I haven't read that in almost a year, so I don't remember it that well.

I don't understand why people still don't take Trelawney seriously after the prophecies. I know she acts quite silly, but you'd think all those accurate predictions would give her some credibility.

[papasmerf]

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow

Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80

I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80

I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80

Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80

Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80

Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81

In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82

Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82

Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82

This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83

The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169

McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:

I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:

This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170

Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

your starting to sound like pavarti or lavender o.0 haha but that is a theory that has evidence to support it so i give you props... I believe that Harry will die, but for a different reason. Solely because JKR wants noone to build off this and said she would be writing no sequels. I think that she will kill Harry, but twist it into something positive somehow... Although that would kinda irritate me >_<

[anabel]

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once.

But McGonagall said at the beginning of PoA that Trelawney has predicted the death of a student every single year since she started, and none of them had died yet!

[Queen_Princess]

I think that he will survive.

[papasmerf]

Originally Posted by Queen_Princess

I think that he will survive.

ummm.... reasons??? plerease

[Rockstar]

Someone mentioned that it seemed unlikely for Harry to kill the Dark Lord, because no other witch or wizard has managed it.

Well, no other witch or wizard has managed to escape Voldemort when he has marked them for death. Harry has done this several times. No other witch or wizard has lived through the AK curse; Harry has.

Both Voldemort and Harry have overridden the typical "rules" of the Wizarding world; i.e. Volde's many horcruxes and Harry's survival of a death curse. They are both exceptional wizards; though some people say Harry is weak and isn't really that outstanding, one cannot forget that he has overcome Voldemort, one of the most powerful wizards of his age, more than once, he knows spells that are much more advanced than his age group (i.e. Patronus charm), he can effectively teach others these spells, and plus he did get through the Triwizard Tournament with good marks. He's the top of his class at Defense against the Dark Arts. I think Harry is great because he is determined, and he is determined because of the ones he loves; he cares about their well being and he cares about preserving their memories after they pass. Therefore, I think he will ultimately defeat Lord Voldemort.

[nickfaceelbow]

But McGonagall said at the beginning of PoA that Trelawney has predicted the death of a student every single year since she started, and none of them had died yet!

This did indeed bother me. I do have a theory to explain this, but no proof whatsoever. McGonagall is very biased against Trelawney. She makes sarcastic comments to her during the Christmas dinner in POA and openly criticises during a class too. She's never this disrespectful about any other teacher, not even Snape, though he does provoke her sometimes.

Because of this bias, she may have exaggerated her statement. Maybe she happened to recall an incident from two years ago involving a certain Hufflepuff boy. Since nothing had happened to him yet in POA, McGonagall thought that this was some sort of sick joke that Trelawney now repeated on Harry. It's understandable that McGonagall is angry about this. She doesn't know that Harry's aware Sirius Black is after him, and doesn't want him to think he's in danger. The last thing she needs is some crazy woman telling him he's going to die, right?

I'm not sure why McGonagall dislikes Trelawney. Perhaps McGonagall was just very bad at Divination and looks down on the subject for that reason, just like Hermione. The two are quite similar, really. Then again, maybe Trelawney just said something insulting about McGonagall once.

I personally think McGonagalls words shouldn't be taken too seriously. I find her a very untrustworthy character. She thinks of her own opinions as facts and she's too stubborn to see things any other way. In PS, when Harry, Ron and Hermione tell McGonagall that the philosopher's stone might get stolen, she tells them that the stone is perfectly safe. Apparently even the fact that three first years managed to find out about it isn't enough to make her doubt. Similarly, in COS, she tells her class that the chamber of secrets is nothing but a legend. I find this particularly curious because since she's around the same age as Voldemort, she should have been attending Hogwarts while Voldemort opened it. I don't know whether McGonagall is a good liar or just wrong about a lot of things, but I to me Trelawney has more credibility than McGonagall does.

[Annachie]

'By the way, my dear,' she shot suddenly at Parvati Patil, 'beware of a red-haired man.'

For some reason, I always thought this was refering to a Weasley. Specifically Ron and the Yule ball. Not sure why

[Natashaa]

Originally Posted by nickfaceelbow

Yes, Harry will die. I think so, because Professor Trelawney thinks so.

I just started re-reading the books and I'm on page 199 of Prisoner of Azkaban now. I've been paying attention to Trelawney's predictions and discovered that she's not quite the fraud she appears; far from that, I don't think she's been wrong once. Here are all Trelawney's other predictions that I've come across so far. The page numbers are from the UK paperback edition:

Page 80

I'm not sure about this one, but I remember that Neville could see the Thestrals in OOTP; maybe because of his grandmother?

Page 80

I don't know what she's talking about. Maybe it'll come in the next book; maybe it just wasn't mentioned because it's not important to the storyline. After all, Trelawney is just showing off in this lesson.

Page 80

Yet again, the flu isn't mentioned, but that doesn't mean it didn't occur.

Page 80

Obvious, this one. Hermione drops Divination around Easter.

Page 80

Lavender hears her rabbit has died on Friday the sixteenth of October.

Page 81

In the very next line, Neville broke his cup.

Page 82

Voldemort, anyone? Not a very impressive prediction, but accurate nevertheless.

Page 82

Harry has been attacked plenty of times after this prediction, most notably by Voldemort in GOF.

Page 82

This could refer to lots of things. Anyway, she's right yet again.

Page 83

The next Divination class isn't mentioned, so she may well have been right.

Page 169

McGonagall persuaded Trelawney and on the next page:

I was really disappointed when I read this. The first from that table to die was Dumbledore (in HBP), so I considered this Trelawney's first confirmed miss. However, a thought struck me. Peter Pettigrew was at the table as well, so there were in fact fourteen people instead of thirteen. This also means that there were thirteen people before Trelawney sat down, but after Harry, Ron, Hermione and Peter joined. I looked back at page 169 to see if anyone stood up at this time, and indeed:

This one took a bit of thought, but Trelawney was right again.

Page 170

Lupin retires at the end of the year.

The score so far:
Correct: 8
Uncomfirmed: 4
Wrong: 0

As she's predicted Harry's death not once, but many times, it is very likely that he will die.

I haven't read all 41 pages of replies, so I'm sorry if this has already been said.

I must appreciate the effort you put this together, but I'm not convinced. All of Trelawney's "predictions" can be seen as clever, calculated guesses. It's like fortunetelling. When you make, say 10 guesses which have a probability of happening based on what you know or observe, there's a chance at that atleast 4-5 will turn out right. It's the same case with Trelwaney. A firm believer in Divination, like Parvati or Lavender, will only see the predictions that came true.

Every prediction she makes about Harry is based on what everyone knows (deadly enemy, frequent attacks, danger in his path). As McGonagall says, she predicts the death of a student every year, and that year she chose Harry as he's the safest bet (he tops the hit list of Voldemort after all)

I remember one particular "prediction" which Trelawney makes about Harry, based on something she doesn't know about him- his birth date. I'm not sure which book this was in, but she asks him if he was born in midwinter

[inkling7]

I think Minerva doesn't suffer fools gladly and Sybil si quite foolish sometimes. Remember Albus said he wasn't going to employ her but felt he needed to protect her after the prohecy and so hired her so he wasn't that impressed with her either. As for the predictions you tatd above well was the rat sitting at the table with them? Hardly as he was in Ron's pocket if he was there. By the way Neville's grandmother is still alive I think and he could see the Thestrals because of the death of anothere family member.

I guess in summing up that unless Sybil goes into a trance and gives a prediction I'd take all the others with a grain of salt and put any that seemed to come true down to coincidence.

[Lord_Kaine]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Someone mentioned that it seemed unlikely for Harry to kill the Dark Lord, because no other witch or wizard has managed it.

Well, no other witch or wizard has managed to escape Voldemort when he has marked them for death. Harry has done this several times. No other witch or wizard has lived through the AK curse; Harry has.

Both Voldemort and Harry have overridden the typical "rules" of the Wizarding world; i.e. Volde's many horcruxes and Harry's survival of a death curse. They are both exceptional wizards; though some people say Harry is weak and isn't really that outstanding, one cannot forget that he has overcome Voldemort, one of the most powerful wizards of his age, more than once, he knows spells that are much more advanced than his age group (i.e. Patronus charm), he can effectively teach others these spells, and plus he did get through the Triwizard Tournament with good marks. He's the top of his class at Defense against the Dark Arts. I think Harry is great because he is determined, and he is determined because of the ones he loves; he cares about their well being and he cares about preserving their memories after they pass. Therefore, I think he will ultimately defeat Lord Voldemort.

Didn't Harrys parents escape Voldemort three times, or did they just defy him?

And Harry surviving the spell was because of his mother, not himself.

As for the Triwizard Tournament, he did have help from Hermione, the fake Moody, Dobby and Hagrid.

But you're right, Harry is determined when it comes to LV and defense against the dark arts. Though he still have some way to go, Snape wiped the floor with him in HBP. He has the ability to take alot of damage, but I can still not see him take LV without going down himself in the process. Maybe he will have to use his surroundings and learn strategy.

[AnnaSofia]

Either way Harry has very difficult task to complete and i really don't know how he'll go through all that without wounds. DD who was the most wise wizard of times, he was injured twice and without the help of Snape he wouldn't survive either the first time. How Harry will pass through, destroying all the Horcruxes, without being hurt?