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'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 18th, 2007, 2:51 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

NO matter HOW it all ends-we will be arguing about CHARECTER for a long time.People will do things-butnhow well Jo lets us know them.I admit to limeting chouices.
Jim


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  #22  
Old February 18th, 2007, 3:26 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Well, if you look at the lists of questions that Harry Potter fans raise, and the list of questions that the books actually raise, then you will note that the former is vastly longer than the latter. Why? Because fans want to know what James and Lily did for livings, even if it never comes up in the books. Fans want to know how James & Lily and the Longbottoms thrice defied Voldemort, even if it the specific details are not relevant to the books.

Chekov's Dictum originally was formulated for novels, not plays, and it says that an author is obliged to use all the guns put on the mantles. However, fans will want to know about the mantles, too (and the wall, floorboard, wainscotting, etc.), even though JKR is under no obligation to address those! (Indeed, it would be lousy writing if she did: good storytelling does not get bogged down in details irrelevant to the plot or story, even if fans crave them.)

J.R.R. Tolkien was pestered for years about details from Lord of the Rings. He answered them in letters so many times that some of his answers contradicted each other! We (foolishly) hoped that The Silmarillion would answer all (yes, I'm that old!): hah! That just raised more questions than it answered!


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Last edited by Wimsey; February 18th, 2007 at 3:55 am.
  #23  
Old February 18th, 2007, 5:01 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Well for the latter. I am a new member, and I hope I don't sound too 'boggish' in what I try to say, whenever I try to say it.

Now as for this, yes. I believe in a matter of sense; there will be _much_ to still discuss after the Deathly Hallows is finally released. But then again, I would say that's almost as easy as saying "Not every mystery 'big and small' will always end up being solved." Unfortunately, sometimes things just 'end' and we have no power over them.

But in a weird sort of sense, I believe most of my important and suspenseful questions (or all most likely) will be answered in some form or another (We all know Jo loves riddles hm?) So I think most of my suspense will be cured. However, there is a 30-35% chance, that it may just put me in further confusion.

After all. We are only humans. -laughs-


  #24  
Old February 18th, 2007, 6:53 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Well, if you look at the lists of questions that Harry Potter fans raise, and the list of questions that the books actually raise, then you will note that the former is vastly longer than the latter. Why? Because fans want to know what James and Lily did for livings, even if it never comes up in the books. Fans want to know how James & Lily and the Longbottoms thrice defied Voldemort, even if it the specific details are not relevant to the books.

Chekov's Dictum originally was formulated for novels, not plays, and it says that an author is obliged to use all the guns put on the mantles. However, fans will want to know about the mantles, too (and the wall, floorboard, wainscotting, etc.), even though JKR is under no obligation to address those! (Indeed, it would be lousy writing if she did: good storytelling does not get bogged down in details irrelevant to the plot or story, even if fans crave them.)
Those are good points about the way authors write their stories through not writing about everything. But when JK Rowling says there will be much to discuss even after DH, I wonder what distinction she meant. Is she referring specifically to the die hard fans who analyze every little detail and such? Or did she actually mean some specific plot point(s) or detail of the content in Deathly Hallows? I hope you get my drift...

As to it meaning we may not be sure if Harry survives or not sure if Voldemort is dead...as was mentioned in earlier posts. That would greatly disappoint me as a fan. I want to know concretely and for sure whether they survive there final encounter with each other.

I think there will be some things open to interpretation, as to what she meant by the quote about things still to discuss. For instance, I am conviced there will still be people saying Snape is evil, almost no matter what he does in Deathly Hallows. That would be something open to interpretation, that we can discuss.


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  #25  
Old February 18th, 2007, 7:07 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by LJB85 View Post
Those are good points about the way authors write their stories through not writing about everything. But when JK Rowling says there will be much to discuss even after DH, I wonder what distinction she meant. Is she referring specifically to the die hard fans who analyze every little detail and such? Or did she actually mean some specific plot point(s) or detail of the content in Deathly Hallows? I hope you get my drift...
I would think the former. It is a poor author who does not wrap up the important plot points. With the exception of Half-Blood Prince, JKR always has wrapped up all of hier important plot point with every story: she just introduces some "over-arching" points during the denouement or the epilogue.

Moreover, JKR has been getting bombarded with questions for nearly a decade. She almost certainly has realized that many of them go beyond this story, much as happened to Tolkien. Having seen these questions, she knows that people are interested in far more than this particular series of stories.


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Originally Posted by LJB85 View Post
As to it meaning we may not be sure if Harry survives or not sure if Voldemort is dead...as was mentioned in earlier posts. That would greatly disappoint me as a fan. I want to know concretely and for sure whether they survive there final encounter with each other.
You will not, if only for the same reason that people do not "know" concretely that Sirius and Dumbledore are dead. No matter how obvious it is, people wishing that the opposite is true will bend the fact to fit this view. Everything stated in the books is considered questionable until confirmed by JKR by those who cling to hypotheses contradicted by those statements.

The BBC serial Doctor Who once had a great line about there being two sorts of minds: those that alter their views to fit the facts, and those who attempt to alter the facts to fit their view, and that the latter was very dangerous when you were one of the facts that contradicted their view! So, if Harry dies, then the legions clinging to the belief that Harry is still alive will do so until JKR says he is dead: and then many of them will try to find some loophole in what she said (just as some try to do with Dumbledore's death).


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Originally Posted by LJB85 View Post
For instance, I am conviced there will still be people saying Snape is evil, almost no matter what he does in Deathly Hallows. That would be something open to interpretation, that we can discuss.
This is almost certainly true. Moral absolutists will insist that had Snape really been good,then he would not have killed Dumbledore. Of course, the fact that Dumbledore uses magic makes him evil in the eyes of some moral absolutists!

One of the points that this misses is that "good" and "evil" are simplistic concepts, and JKR's universe is well past these. Look instead to selfish vs. unselfish motivations: that is as close to "evil" and "good" as you will get in JKR's philosophy, I think.


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  #26  
Old February 18th, 2007, 9:12 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Oh, I hope so, I don't want this site to fold!


  #27  
Old February 18th, 2007, 12:47 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I think Wimsey was headed in the right direction with the follow up books to LOTR. I would not be suprised to see some other books about the series. Maybe something like LV or DD the early years. Maybe Hogwarts history or a History of the greatest wizards. I don't think these books would come out soon but maybe down the road after a few years.


  #28  
Old February 18th, 2007, 1:09 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by Night_Sky View Post
I think she will leave somethings open. I do not think she will beable to close everything for everyone. We will always think of something she did not end. She said taht we would still be here trying to rethink somethings.
As per above, for example:

1) Possible better endings
2) Whether who and who deserved to die or not
3) Whether who and who needed to die or not
4) Mistakes/ inconsistencies in the book
etc etc.

With such a large group of fans= lots of brains...
There'll be angles to discuss long after book 7 is released.

JOY!


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  #29  
Old February 18th, 2007, 1:50 pm
MissHufflepuff  Female.gif MissHufflepuff is offline
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Well I can think fo a few things that'll ALWAYS Be discussed:

1) Shipping. No matter what happens, no matter what JK says, no matter what the characters in the books say....there will always be those strong, passioante shippers who disagree, and beleive that other relationships happened or will happen) during or after the series. There'll still eb talks abotu it for a very long time (which I find extrememely irriating, yet cannot be stopped).

2) TheDeaths. She said she's saved one in order to sarcrifice to other cahracters - I wonder who? And we'll all be talking about who she decided not to kill, and why. ANd the charactes who did die....how they died, the reasons for? Were they supposed to be traitors? Did they die for the wrong side? Did it surpirse anyone - was it an accident? I think there will always be some character i.e. Snape where although JK will reveal his actual side etc, there are things we'll never really now, or we'll always debate on why.

3) The actual ending! Could it have been any different? What actually happened...and why? Peopel will always be talking about the day the book ended and --------- died, or didn't etc.

4) The film There's still a few more to go - will they stick to canon? How will they be done? THere's always them

5) The sheer popularity of the books. Whether or not peopel in 30 years time think we're mad, they would have to look into the vast popualrity of them, winder why they were so amazing. What it was that made them so great.

There will be theories and characters discussed for ages. Some people, who almost forget it's not real, will be discussing how it relates to the muggle-world etc.

In fatc, that's jsut athough..whatever happened in the last bit, whether there's no more harry or voldemort, or even no wizarding world! (!!!) it all happened eyars ago for us! (unless the book is based on mroe than oen year).

So Harry will not be forgotten that quickly - no matter how much my 'very intelligent but doesn't understand why harry potter is so good' friend likes to think.


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  #30  
Old February 18th, 2007, 4:58 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
1) Shipping. No matter what happens, no matter what JK says, no matter what the characters in the books say....there will always be those strong, passioante shippers who disagree, and beleive that other relationships happened or will happen) during or after the series. There'll still eb talks abotu it for a very long time (which I find extrememely irriating, yet cannot be stopped).
I think shipping (or at least the debates) will die down pretty soon. The epilogue is likely to tell us who gets married and has kids, and shipping will be relegated to "alternate-universe fanfic" (which, for the most part, it has always been). Over the years, as less and less HP material emerges, even the most passionate shippers will start to move on from it. Shipping was also a product of the gap between novels - speculation led to over-analysis, which led to attachment to certain couples, whether they were to happen or not. From this summer onwards, new readers aren't going to have that wait - they can just read their way through the series and follow the story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
2) TheDeaths. She said she's saved one in order to sarcrifice to other cahracters - I wonder who? And we'll all be talking about who she decided not to kill, and why. ANd the charactes who did die....how they died, the reasons for? Were they supposed to be traitors? Did they die for the wrong side? Did it surpirse anyone - was it an accident? I think there will always be some character i.e. Snape where although JK will reveal his actual side etc, there are things we'll never really now, or we'll always debate on why.
Now that's an interesting point. I for one hope Jo doesn't answer this, at least for a few years. If you're attached to certain characters who then die in DH, think how you'd feel if you found out that Jo had planned for them to survive right up until 2005. Besides, this information basically qualifies as "rough draft" material, like Dean being called "Gary" and Harry suspecting his parents to have stolen the Philospher's Stone. So we won't see it in any encyclopedias. But it is a very interesting question. As for the reasons for deaths, it should (like Cedric, Sirius and Dumbledore) be clear in the book why they are being killed, from the effect it has on the plot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
3) The actual ending! Could it have been any different? What actually happened...and why? Peopel will always be talking about the day the book ended and --------- died, or didn't etc.
A LotR ending is possible given the Veil, but then, I never thought there was much room for debate about the ending of LotR. I always thought it was quite clear that Frodo had effectively "died" by travelling to the afterlife, but that's just me. I think Jo has made it even clearer than Tolkien that the world "beyond the Veil" is the Potterverse afterlife, but there will still be people saying Harry (or whoever) went through there and ended up in Calcutta.


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  #31  
Old February 18th, 2007, 6:18 pm
MissHufflepuff  Female.gif MissHufflepuff is offline
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by FaceofBoe View Post
I think shipping (or at least the debates) will die down pretty soon. The epilogue is likely to tell us who gets married and has kids, and shipping will be relegated to "alternate-universe fanfic" (which, for the most part, it has always been). Over the years, as less and less HP material emerges, even the most passionate shippers will start to move on from it. Shipping was also a product of the gap between novels - speculation led to over-analysis, which led to attachment to certain couples, whether they were to happen or not. From this summer onwards, new readers aren't going to have that wait - they can just read their way through the series and follow the story.
I can see your point and generally agree - but when the book comes out, and it'll say who's married who etc. (although who says it will? She might jsut make ron and hermione (for example) tell each other how they feel, and we don't actually see the marriage, but can guess it'll happen or something), then there will still be those select people (who I won't name) who'll say "well actually, they way 'so-and-so' said this, means that it still happened at one point etc." or something like that. Some shippers don't care whether their ship was supposed to happen or not, or care what JK said...they'l make theirs 'fit' no matter what! BUt I suppose we shouldn;t worry about them - most peopel would have to admit 'defeat' so to speak! lol!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Now [I
that's[/i] an interesting point. I for one hope Jo doesn't answer this, at least for a few years. If you're attached to certain characters who then die in DH, think how you'd feel if you found out that Jo had planned for them to survive right up until 2005. Besides, this information basically qualifies as "rough draft" material, like Dean being called "Gary" and Harry suspecting his parents to have stolen the Philospher's Stone. So we won't see it in any encyclopedias. But it is a very interesting question. As for the reasons for deaths, it should (like Cedric, Sirius and Dumbledore) be clear in the book why they are being killed, from the effect it has on the plot.
That's a point. Actually, I really hope this whole enclopaedia idea happens though!

[quote=A LotR ending is possible given the Veil, but then, I never thought there was much room for debate about the ending of LotR. I always thought it was quite clear that Frodo had effectively "died" by travelling to the afterlife, but that's just me. I think Jo has made it even clearer than Tolkien that the world "beyond the Veil" is the Potterverse afterlife, but there will still be people saying Harry (or whoever) went through there and ended up in Calcutta. [/QUOTE]

so did frodo die?!? (I'm sorry - i've only read a bit of the first book and watched the films - I just really couldn't get into the books!). I wasn't ever sure what actually happened, but i don't know...

I think although the veil might lead to the afterlife..I don't know, i can't imagien that exactly happen though. THen again...oh it'll be so sad!


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  #32  
Old February 18th, 2007, 8:30 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by LostWizard View Post
I think Wimsey was headed in the right direction with the follow up books to LOTR. I would not be suprised to see some other books about the series. Maybe something like LV or DD the early years. Maybe Hogwarts history or a History of the greatest wizards. I don't think these books would come out soon but maybe down the road after a few years.
Actually, I do not think that JKR will write anymore books, unless it is of the "Magical Creatures" variety. My guess is that she'll want to do some different things. She is a very good mystery writer already, and I would like to see her write adult mysteries. She also has a good flair for children's stories, and I think that she could continue to write those.

My comment regarding Lord of the Rings was simply that at the end of that (unlike Harry Potter, Lord of the RIngs was written as one book: the publishers divided it into 3 volumes!) there still were a lot of questions, especially about the "Elder Days." Indeed, it was a bit of a game: how much of the Silmarillion could we construct in advance? Oh, how we wanted that backstory! We also wanted additional details from Hobbitverse as it was: what happened afterwards (what happened to the sons of Elrond?!?! did the Dwarves go back to Moria?!?! were there still dragons in the northern wastes?!?!? was the balrog really dead?!?!). We hoped that the Silmarillion would answer all of this and more: and it did not come close!

Tolkien was a very different person from Rowling. He enjoyed telling stories and he enjoyed his little fantasy land. He held no pretensions about being a novelist and he despised modern literature. Rowling has always fancied herself a novelist and she is very knowledgeable about many aspects of literature. Tolkien did everything that he wanted with LotR: I suspect that Rowling has just scratched the surface of what she wants to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
2) TheDeaths. She said she's saved one in order to sarcrifice to other cahracters - I wonder who?
Actually, Rowling did not say that. She said that two characters are going to die who initially were going to live but that another had his/her death sentence commuted. There was no indication that these three events are connected: that is, say, Fred & George will die saving Molly, or something.

However, like the two alternative titles, there almost certainly will be speculation about which two deaths were not going to happen (unless only two characters die: and I really doubt that will be the case!), and who was spared (unless only one character lives: and I really doubt that will be the case, too!).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
There will be theories and characters discussed for ages. Some people, who almost forget it's not real, will be discussing how it relates to the muggle-world etc.
In other words: Tolkien all over again! (Or Star Trek or Star Wars....)


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
So Harry will not be forgotten that quickly - no matter how much my 'very intelligent but doesn't understand why harry potter is so good' friend likes to think.
That remains to be seen. For every Beatles, there were dozens of Dave Clark Fives. Salieri was just as popular as Mozart in their day, you know.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
so did frodo die?!? (I'm sorry - i've only read a bit of the first book and watched the films - I just really couldn't get into the books!). I wasn't ever sure what actually happened, but i don't know...
Heh, pay attention to this, Harry Potter fans: because for every person who has this attitude towards Lord of the Rings, there is one who has it for Harry Potter!

Frodo and Bilbo sail west with the Elves, and that is all that the book tells us. Later, in his letters, Tolkien tells us that whereas the Elves and Gandalf went to Valinor, Frodo and Bilbo only went as far as Tol Eressea (also known as Avalln: sound familiar?), where they both recovered from the possession of the Ring until they died. Sam also is thought to have gone there, although there is no indication of whether either Frodo or Bilbo were still alive. Given what Tolkien wrote in Akallabeth, probably not: mortals too close to the immortal lands might wither and die, or so the emissaries of Manw warn the people of Numenor. Valinor was not the "afterlife" for mortals: the gift of Illuvator took their spirits outsides the confines of the Earth. Needless to say, there was much debate about what kind of a gift this was......


Quote:
Originally Posted by MissHufflepuff View Post
I think although the veil might lead to the afterlife..I don't know, i can't imagien that exactly happen though. THen again...oh it'll be so sad!
Beyond the Veil is a very old poetic image for dying. It dates back at least to the 1600's in the poetry of Henry Vaughan, who's poem about dying is called Beyond the Veil. (That is a very moving bit of poetry, in my usually immobile opinion.) The phrase "seeing beyond the veil" often has been used for near death experiences, where people purport to get some glimpse of the afterlife.

So, this is just JKR having fun with another literary allusion. She likes to have physical "puns" of this sort: i.e., physical manifestations of old sayings or poetic images.

Now, I am sure that some fans will try to claim that she meant something else: but, really, it is reaching!


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  #33  
Old February 18th, 2007, 8:55 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Actually, Rowling did not say that. She said that two characters are going to die who initially were going to live but that another had his/her death sentence commuted. There was no indication that these three events are connected: that is, say, Fred & George will die saving Molly, or something.

However, like the two alternative titles, there almost certainly will be speculation about which two deaths were not going to happen (unless only two characters die: and I really doubt that will be the case!), and who was spared (unless only one character lives: and I really doubt that will be the case, too!).
I'm so glad you said that. I watched the Richard and Judy interview when it was first broadcast and I am so sick of reading what she said misquoted in the press to suggest that a grand total of two characters will die in the final book.

To go back to something you said in an earlier post:

Quote:
people do not "know" concretely that Sirius and Dumbledore are dead. No matter how obvious it is, people wishing that the opposite is true will bend the fact to fit this view. Everything stated in the books is considered questionable until confirmed by JKR by those who cling to hypotheses contradicted by those statements.
I'm pretty certain that Sirius and DD are dead myself, but I don't think hypothesis-clingers are stupidly bending the facts when they think like this at this stage of the series. JKR has gleefully played with her readers in the past, using carefully ambiguous, trick wording to mislead, both in the books themselves and in interviews, so I think it's only natural that people start looking for trick wording and double meanings in everything she says.

However, by the end of the last book, at least the points where she was being deliberately ambiguous should have become obvious.


  #34  
Old February 19th, 2007, 1:01 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

It is a great series of books.Just like LOTR I think we will be talking about it for years.Unlike LOTR this series grew up online-and we will not go away just like the internet will not go away!!


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  #35  
Old February 19th, 2007, 2:20 am
missjanepotter  Female.gif missjanepotter is offline
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Ive read a lot about what could be in the epilogue and I have one question
why is so many people sure that it will say who gets married and has kids? is it pure speculation or is it a known fact?, I just havent seen if this has been said on some web page or newspaper or something...

Anyway... about what you have been discusing, I do believe Harry Potter will be talk about for many years to come, of course it would not stay as popular forever as it is now, but you all know that LOTR wasnt as popular in the new century until the movies came out, but for the people who likes to read and knows a lot of autors was very well known,but for the mayority of the world it wasnt... you know what I mean??

people will always have Harry on the book stores for them to get it, but that doesnt mean necesarily that they will buy it, but still the book will be there, because something that has been so huge can not be forgoten so easily,

I dont think many of us spect to keep seen many of Harry in the future, after the movies are over, it will past the frantic and euforia will past too, but not the interest and love of the true fans, we will make Harry stay on the book stores for generations to come, it just wont be as big as it has been, its a matter of evolution , we all change with time and experience, and so do the world, but the good stuff always remains as long as someone keeps looking for them.

I do hope Harry will be very discuss after Deathly Hallows, not everyone its going to like the ending,(yeah I know Im a bit scare too) so that leaves enough material to talk about for ages...

and ages... as long as you have the time for it


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  #36  
Old February 19th, 2007, 10:01 am
MissHufflepuff  Female.gif MissHufflepuff is offline
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I hope she doesn't try and write books as big as harry potter - because i can';t imaqgine anything being as popuular, and it'ld only make her or harry potter look less-good or something.
HOwever, i think she shoulod write a few other smaller, seperate novels, and see how she does with them.
I can see people criticising and saying she uses too many of a 'similar' kind of charactre in them though.


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  #37  
Old February 19th, 2007, 2:49 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I believe that JKR will leave all important points settled (such as Harrys future, Snapes loyalty, RAB, etc)

I believe that smaller subplot lines will be left open (such as if and how many children Remus and Tonks will have, profession of Lavender Brown, etc)

Nevertheless, in my personal opinion:

I will be glad to speculate and discuss further smaller details of the books after book 7 (such as Grawps future, SPEW, Nevilles success as Herbology teacher, etc)

BUT If a theory, that could have been potentially important, is not confirmed or even mentioned in book 7, for me personally, further discussion will belong to fanfiction.

Only my personal opinion though


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  #38  
Old February 19th, 2007, 2:54 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

i think its good that in any series not all questions are answered
i dont mean big questions but i would like there still to be a good few unanswered questions
also there is no way she could answer all questions in one book


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  #39  
Old February 19th, 2007, 3:01 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I don;t think any series of books have brought as much interest as these. While the plot may be resolved, we'll still want to know everything we can about the characters, their past lives, their personalities etc. JK has also said that her website will remain open, so i think she'll post more of her notes for us to gawp at and see what may have been. Harry Potter is a phenomen that'll still be around for a while yet.


  #40  
Old February 20th, 2007, 8:22 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

There are always 'loose ends', and I hope there are a few! We, the fans have to have something to think and talk about......and find answers to.


 
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