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'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'



 
 
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  #41  
Old February 20th, 2007, 12:55 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I think that no matter what happens with Snape, there will be plenty to discuss about him.


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Old February 20th, 2007, 3:04 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Maybe she will leave something open
Or she will let something be ambiguous (forever, like Snape's morality, Harry's possible death)


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Old February 20th, 2007, 4:00 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by FaceofBoe View Post
I've never heard her say that. I remember back in 2003, she was asked if there would be any loose ends, and she said "Oh, I hope not ... No, I'm hoping to tie it all up in one big knot. That's it."

I think the things "still to be discussed" will be minor things - questions which don't really influence the main plot in any way, but which fans might like to speculate on. All the major stuff will be resolved, though - I don't have much doubt about that.

Jo did say last year that there would still be room for fans to write fanfic about "minor characters", which implies that the fates of all the major characters will be dealt with pretty extensively in the epilogue.
Oh, but I think Jo underestimates our habit of writing things to death, from every possible angle, with every possible alternate outcome So I think even main characters will still be up for writing, and debating, after DH. I know I'll still want to read H/G fic, after all, and it's a dead cert that Harry and Ginny will get a proper ending from Jo herself.

Anyway, I think the loose ends will be mainly little things, and everything else will get a resolution. Though some resolutions probably won't please everyone, so there'll still be that to whine - um, I mean, talk about.


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  #44  
Old February 20th, 2007, 4:12 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I think she'll leave some things open to debate, but, as many of you have said, nothing relating specifically to the main plot. Personally, I don't see her leaving something huge open, such as is Harry dead, or is Snape dead. I think she'll let us know for sure what happened. I think we'll be able to speculate about other things though, probably some motives behind people's actions won't be explained completely. We know she wrote an Epilogue, so I don't see too much being left open about the main characters or plot.


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Old February 20th, 2007, 4:23 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

i think she will have to end it, because otherwise she will have many writers asking her if they can do an 8th book or fans asking her to do an 8th book, thus carrying the story on for longer then what she wanted it to, but yes i think there will still be some room left for discussion like, "did you see this coming i thought............. would happen" or "i knew what was going to happen as soon as this happened". and also they could just follow the films.

overall i think harry potter will never be forgotten and will be read for generations to come, for like lord of the rings, people still watch, read and talk about that.


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  #46  
Old February 20th, 2007, 4:59 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Well, I'm sure we'll have plenty to talk about: the outcome, the way the characters died, the defeat, the unanswered questions. All of those things will keep us busy for maybe years to come. A phenomenon such as Harry will surely live for a very long time, so it makes sense that the fans as well as the media talk about it long after the series concludes.


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  #47  
Old February 20th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I think she is going to tie up the BIG things, there are so many things that people will question that of course is she is going to miss a few.


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Old February 20th, 2007, 8:26 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I will personally be very disappointed if everything isn't tied up with a nice little bow on top. That is how I want it to end. I would DESPISE an open ending. I alos keep hanging on to a hope that she might write a couple more books after DH.


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Old February 21st, 2007, 9:07 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by deathly_hallowx View Post
I will personally be very disappointed if everything isn't tied up with a nice little bow on top. That is how I want it to end. I would DESPISE an open ending. I alos keep hanging on to a hope that she might write a couple more books after DH.
JKR almost certainly will not, unless she comes up with another story. However, here is a key thing that HP readers need to remember: JKR is a thematic story teller. That is, she concentrates on story and theme. There certainly will not be any thematic loose ends left. So, any further stories will have to develop themes from scratch.

However, many of the possible "loose threads" concern plot and backstory. JKR simply is not the type of writer who is going to write plot for the sake of plot (a la "Attack of the Clones"). Now, there will be a ton of unaddressed issues: but that is because we think of questions that never occur to JKR. She clearly is the type of writer who (with the occasional David Copperfield-esque lapses with Hermione) writes each scene with the theme in her head. Background issues about tertiary, quaternary and even more distant characters, or non-plot narrative elements are not something that concerns her.

As I noted above, J.R.R. Tolkien ran into the same thing. Moreover, given that Tolkien was a plot-oriented story teller rather than a character-oriented one, this shows that it simply is not possible to tie up all of the loose ends that readers will find.


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  #50  
Old February 22nd, 2007, 12:23 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I just hope she doesn´t leave us with an 'open ending' à la 'think for yourself if Snape would get caught and if he can explain whether he was on the good side the whole time or not'. I don´t mind a few loose threads though. I don´t necessarily need to know if Lockhart ever recovered and left St Mungo´s. Unless that turns out to be crucial for them main plot, but then we will know the outcome.

We know there will be an epilogue dealing with what happens to those characters who survive, therefore I am not too much concerned we could be left hanging with burning questions.

But we will have enough to speculate on the surviving characters´s lives, beyond what we´re told in the epilogue.


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Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:10 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I'd been thinking the entire series was designed as a puzzle/riddle/allegory of sorts, and that after the last book readers would have to go through all seven books again (maybe several times) to work out what the one big huge surprise revelation is. I definitely think there's a one big huge surprise revelation, and that she's been working up to it from the moment Harry walked into her head almost fully formed.

In other words, Harry was "born" to fulfill a certain destiny, and he was always going to fulfill that destiny — even before characters like Voldemort and Dumbledore and Snape were ever conceived of — and that the entire series was developed to get him from point A to point B. And I'm pretty sure point B is not death.

Anyway if my suspicions are correct, once readers begin to understand the true significance of point B, speculation on how it applies not only to Harry's world but to the real world will be effectively endless.

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  #52  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 12:19 am
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

i think she might end the book with a new question, or maybe answer the main questions, but not the detailed ones. what i think she meant by 'more room for discussion' is that there is still more room for imagination to continue, which might mean that harry didn't die

Also, maybe complaining about the ending, saying how you would have done it differently, or what you liked could be a discussion too.


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  #53  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 3:32 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Quote:
Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
In other words, Harry was "born" to fulfill a certain destiny, and he was always going to fulfill that destiny — even before characters like Voldemort and Dumbledore and Snape were ever conceived of — and that the entire series was developed to get him from point A to point B. And I'm pretty sure point B is not death.
No, but death might be the result. Point B will be, as it is in every Harry Potter story, some major choice or decision.

I really doubt that JKR will leave things so open as you suggest. This is not her style thematically: she concludes each story with Dumbledore basically providing a synopsis of the main theme, after all! Ultimately, it is the authors job to deliver the goods: it is NOT the customer's duty to work them out. JKR would be comitting literary suicide if the final book does not lay bare the primary theme and primary plot elements. The conclusion would not be that we have to work it out: it would be that those things were never there in the first place!


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Originally Posted by Balbulmaya View Post
i think she might end the book with a new question, or maybe answer the main questions, but not the detailed ones. what i think she meant by 'more room for discussion' is that there is still more room for imagination to continue, which might mean that harry didn't die.
Even if Harry dies, then there still will be large groups of fans who deny it (a la Dumbledore and Sirius)! Even if JKR provides such excruciating detail of the death that the most ironclad amongst us are reaching for a bucket, there still will be those who will say: "It was Colin Creevy on PolyJuice Potion!!!!!"



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Originally Posted by Balbulmaya View Post
Also, maybe complaining about the ending, saying how you would have done it differently, or what you liked could be a discussion too.
There certainly will be legitimate literary criticism/discussion, too. People still discuss David Copperfield, but not to wonder if David's step-father is going to become the next Dark Lord!


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  #54  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 6:16 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Even if Harry dies, then there still will be large groups of fans who deny it (a la Dumbledore and Sirius)! Even if JKR provides such excruciating detail of the death that the most ironclad amongst us are reaching for a bucket, there still will be those who will say: "It was Colin Creevy on PolyJuice Potion!!!!!"
Unfortunately this is very true, but even beyond that, there will be lots of little things and aspects of characters' histories that will go untold. Maybe those kinds of topics aren't as big and flashy as the kind we're wondering about now with the series unconcluded, but I don't think JKR will leave a whole lot of meat on the bone by the end of DH, y'know?


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Old February 23rd, 2007, 6:53 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
No, but death might be the result. Point B will be, as it is in every Harry Potter story, some major choice or decision.
No, I think point B is more of an epiphany. Harry's worked hard to earn it. And what's the use of bringing him to epiphany only to kill him off? It just doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
I really doubt that JKR will leave things so open as you suggest. This is not her style thematically: she concludes each story with Dumbledore basically providing a synopsis of the main theme, after all!
Dumbledore's gone, he can't give the final answer. And when he was around, his words were usually vague enough that people could read many different meanings into them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
Ultimately, it is the authors job to deliver the goods: it is NOT the customer's duty to work them out.
I suppose customers could try to sue her for dereliction of duty if I'm right. Doubt they'd get very far though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
JKR would be comitting literary suicide if the final book does not lay bare the primary theme and primary plot elements.
I would be surprised if she cared very much about other people labeling her work as literary suicide.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
The conclusion would not be that we have to work it out: it would be that those things were never there in the first place!
That sounds to me like a very Muggle way of approaching things.


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  #56  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 7:25 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Some people will be going back to read the books so they can see where their theories went wrong They will want to see what clues JK laid down that they either missed or interpretted in a different way. And then there will be the people who just won't believe something. JK Rowling will have to keep her website open for all those things.


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Old February 23rd, 2007, 8:27 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

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Originally Posted by Hermeneutic View Post
Maybe those kinds of topics aren't as big and flashy as the kind we're wondering about now with the series unconcluded, but I don't think JKR will leave a whole lot of meat on the bone by the end of DH, y'know?
Again, I would say, think Anton Chekov. The guns put on the wall must be fired before it is over; the guns fired before it is over must be shown early.

So, when going through the questions people have, the first rule of thumb should be: is this a question raised by the series? What is Harry's scar and what is the link between Harry and Voldemort are two questions that arise from the series itself. What Harry's parents did is not.

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Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
No, I think point B is more of an epiphany. Harry's worked hard to earn it. And what's the use of bringing him to epiphany only to kill him off? It just doesn't make sense.
Innumerable stories have done things like this before: there is a lot of potential thematic sense to it!


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Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
Dumbledore's gone, he can't give the final answer. And when he was around, his words were usually vague enough that people could read many different meanings into them.
No, Dumbledore usually was pretty exact. People twisted his words, but they were exact as written.

Moreover, this is a Bildungsroman. Part of that narrative theme requires that Harry be able to do this himself at the end. Harry will know, and because we read his thoughts, we will know.

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Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
I suppose customers could try to sue her for dereliction of duty if I'm right. Doubt they'd get very far though.
JKR would suffer an even worse fate: ridicule and consignment to the trashbin of literary history. This is a woman who dreams of being remembered in 100 years time when people discuss Austen, Dickens, etc.: and an unresolved ending won't do that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
I would be surprised if she cared very much about other people labeling her work as literary suicide.
JKR is acutely aware of the literary establishment, being part of it herself. She's writing these books for herself, not for her fans, as you note. She has stated many times that she always aspired to be an author of the sorts that people remembered, and she is quite explicit about her literary influences. She is not J.R.R. Tolkien, who hated the literary establishment and modern literature: quite the opposite, she wants to be listed with Tolstoy, not supplant him!


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Originally Posted by capella_black View Post
That sounds to me like a very Muggle way of approaching things.
No, it is a fairly logical one. Good story telling explains itself in the end. That is, after all, the point of story telling: not to spin fantastic plots or turn neat phrases, but to speak some "truth" as the author perceives it.

If, at the end of a tale, no obvious story or greater meaning is apparent, there are two conclusions: one, that the author wrote it so poorly that we missed it, or, two, there never was one there in the first place. If neither of these are true, then it was a poorly told story. JKR is not going to be granted special licence to write a "different" kind of story! That's like saying that the spear-making chimps are on par with people who make spears with stone heads, but that the chimps are making profoundly different ones that lack the stone head!

A similar charge is starting to be leveled at the TV drama "Lost," which was billed as having a profound and cool underlying story and plot; however, after 2.5 years, a lot of people are beginning to suggest that there really is not one, and that they are making it up as they go along; the same thing happened to "Babylon 5" after it's big reveal ignored all the guns that had been put on the walls and then whipped out a few completely new ones.

(The last episode of Lost was supposed to answer 3 big questions: but, insofar as I can see, it did not answer any real questions at all!)


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  #58  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 9:07 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

I'd like to make an observation about final books, if I may.

Back in 1893, Arthur Conan Doyle (later Sir Arthur) was frankly sick of Sherlock Holmes. So much so, that he 'killed off' Sherlock in "The Final Problem".

But Sherlock refused to die. Doyle wrote a few stories in mid-career style, but gave in to pressure and brought back Holmes in 1905. The last Holmes story by Doyle was published in 1930.

What happened, even in that age so long before computers, was that readers refused to stop talking about Sherlock Holmes. Even today, people still send mail addressed to 221B Baker Street, and even college professors have written essays on whether Sherlock Holmes might in fact have been a real person.

In another example, the Sci-Fi/Fantasy master Roger Zelazny wrote a five-volume series known as the 'Chronicles of Amber'. After the last book, called "The Courts of Chaos" was published in 1978, Zelazny thought he had finally finished with Corwin and could move on to other things, but the fans demanded more. And in the end they got it, a new series of another five "Amber" books surrounding Corwin's son Merlin.

Sadly, Zelazny died from cancer in 1995 (this strikes me personally, as his cancer was much like my own), so fans had to continue on their own. A third series of Amber books now continues the saga.

The door to Hogwarts may never close, so long as the readers want to keep it open.


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  #59  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 10:48 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
No, Dumbledore usually was pretty exact. People twisted his words, but they were exact as written.
How can words be exact as written? They only have meaning because people give them meaning. I suppose we're looking here for the meaning the author intended, but I still think she intended Dumbledore's words in particular to have multiple levels of meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
Part of that narrative theme requires that Harry be able to do this himself at the end. Harry will know, and because we read his thoughts, we will know.
Oh, I hope so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
JKR would suffer an even worse fate: ridicule and consignment to the trashbin of literary history. This is a woman who dreams of being remembered in 100 years time when people discuss Austen, Dickens, etc.: and an unresolved ending won't do that!
Where does she say she dreams that?

JKR: I never expected to be in the papers. I personally never expected to be in the papers. The height of my ambition for these books was, well frankly, to get reviewed. A lot of children's books don't even get reviewed - forget good review, bad review. link

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey
If, at the end of a tale, no obvious story or greater meaning is apparent, there are two conclusions: one, that the author wrote it so poorly that we missed it, or, two, there never was one there in the first place.
Or that the cognitive engagement required to find the greater meaning is a necessary precursor to the full understanding of the greater meaning.

It's a bit like a game of Quidditch: no one comes out and hands over the snitch at a pre-appointed time, the game only ends when the Seeker finds it, however long that might take.


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  #60  
Old February 23rd, 2007, 10:53 pm
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Re: 'There will be still much to discuss after Deathly Hallows....'

My theory's that she'll leave some kind of cliffhanger, nothing enourmous, but just enough to keep us talking for a while.


Quote:
It's a bit like a game of Quidditch: no one comes out and hands over the snitch at a pre-appointed time, the game only ends when the Seeker finds it, however long that might take.

That's great, I've never thought of it that way.



But I don't want the series to end!!!!!


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Last edited by chocolatefrog99; February 23rd, 2007 at 10:55 pm.
 
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