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"Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.



 
 
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  #81  
Old April 30th, 2007, 4:21 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
I too think it was Dumbledore, for Harry was poisoned by the images of Dumbledore's death and he was too full of hatred to think of a thing so far-fetched and comprehensive.
So Snape was still using legilimency?


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  #82  
Old April 30th, 2007, 4:31 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Since I last posted on this thread- I've changed my mind. I do think Harry was thinking of Dumbledore at the time, but I also think Snape was still thinking about of how James would bully Snape (4 on 1), and how Snape killed Dumbledore- in a similar position. Which appeared "cowardly" - in doing so- Snape became the thing he hated most.

Yes Snape was using Legilimency - he demonstrates it when Harry thinks "Levi-" but Snape still blocks him before he even finishes the thought. It's the Levicorpus spell that Enrages Snape the most as Harry knew it was that one James used against him in Snape's worst memory.


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  #83  
Old April 30th, 2007, 4:43 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

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Originally Posted by Bscorp View Post
Yes Snape was using Legilimency
Yes, I know he was, but having disarmed Harry and rendered him helpless, was he still?


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  #84  
Old May 4th, 2007, 4:10 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

I thought that he was referring to Dumbledore, but you have a good point here, he could be referring to his father, James. Maybe he was referring to both of them, Dumbledore was the closest thing that Harry had to a father.


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  #85  
Old May 4th, 2007, 3:41 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

I am sure it was referring to Dumbledore because it was right after he was killed. Harry wanted immeadiate revenge and wanted Snape to face him. When Snape kept running Harry was furious.
Even though Snape passed on the information about James and Lily he didn't kill them with his actual hands/wand like he did with Dumbledore.
"Kill me like you killed him" If Harry was reffering to James, Snape would have to go and betray Harry the same way he did with James. And at that moment Harry was trying to get Snape to face him and duel...


  #86  
Old May 4th, 2007, 4:43 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbysBludger View Post
So Snape was still using legilimency?
Indeed he was, for he knew what spells Harry was going to use....


  #87  
Old May 10th, 2007, 1:57 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbysBludger View Post
The whole ambiguity of the situation only matters, in my humble opinion, because the answer, Dumbledore or James, colours Snape reaction.
That's true, I think she very intentionally wanted it to be ambiguous, regardless of what Harry actually meant to say.


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  #88  
Old July 24th, 2007, 10:07 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

It seems like it could be a double entendre--on the surface, Harry's thinking of Dumbledore, who was killed while defenseless, but deep down Harry is also thinking of James, who had no warning before Voldemort came and killed him and Lily.


  #89  
Old July 28th, 2007, 10:41 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Blast! Exactly what hpfan1000 said. Snape killing Dumbledore was still fresh in Harry's mind, it was also the main ingredient for his pursuit of Snape, but Harry was also I think without realising it also referring to his father.


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  #90  
Old July 29th, 2007, 11:18 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

I think that Harry was thinking about both his Father and Dumbledore as well.... the death of Dumbledore would probably have brought back fresh memories of his Mum and Dads murders to the front of his mind.


  #91  
Old August 6th, 2007, 9:45 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginny1984
the death of Dumbledore would probably have brought back fresh memories of his Mum and Dads murders to the front of his mind.
Especially since Harry blames his parents death on Snape as well.


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  #92  
Old August 7th, 2007, 9:31 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Severus15 View Post
It seems like most people seem to agree that Harry is refering to Dumbledore when he says to Snape, "Kill me like you killed him, you coward."

However, this is Harry's second time he accuses Snpae of cowardice. His first accusation is met with: "Coward, did you call me Potter? Your father only attacked when it was four on one. What would you call him, I wonder?"

And then Harry responds with "Kill me like you killed him..." (Or something to that extent)

Could Harry instead be refering to Snape telling Voldemort about the prophecy? This was of course a shocking revation for Harry - one that he discoverd on the same night as the attack on Hogwarts - one that certainly would have stayed with Harry for the rest of the night?

Thoughts?

(This is different than the "Snape's reaction to being called a coward" thread as it explicitly focuses on Harry's reaction)
Oh wow, I never thought of that before but I like it! Now that you've mentioned it, I really do believe that he was referring to his father.


  #93  
Old August 7th, 2007, 9:43 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Harry just came out of the tower and witnessed one of his fav. person dying, I doubt he'd be talking about James, whom he probably forgotten at this point


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  #94  
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:01 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

But as someone said, Grammar dictates that the way the pronoun "him" was used it must have been in reference to the last person mentioned which would be James. If Harry meant Dumbledore then he would have had to say "Dumbledore" and not use "him". And it's quite clear that Harry blamed Snape for his parent's death and that Snape himself feels quilty for Lily's death which would have caused his violent reaction to Harry bringing it up and calling him a coward.


  #95  
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:24 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

the word "him" is a pronoun for all males, not just James...

Let's put it at Harry's situation. He just came back from a total disaster, and than at the tower, he loses one of his favorite person (NOT James, but Dumbledore) and tries to catch Snape. I don't think any teenager would think "Maybe I should use the word "him" so that Snape knows I'm talking about James". He just wanted revenge for Dumbledore


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  #96  
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:35 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebusrocks View Post
the word "him" is a pronoun for all males, not just James...

Let's put it at Harry's situation. He just came back from a total disaster, and than at the tower, he loses one of his favorite person (NOT James, but Dumbledore) and tries to catch Snape. I don't think any teenager would think "Maybe I should use the word "him" so that Snape knows I'm talking about James". He just wanted revenge for Dumbledore
If the book follows the simple rules of grammar, then the "him" could only refer to James. Unless you're trying to say JKR is a poor writer?


  #97  
Old August 7th, 2007, 10:53 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

oh, you're talking about the SECOND line, I thought you were talking about the first! Snape's just twisted up and decided to add in James to see Harry even more angry


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  #98  
Old August 7th, 2007, 5:45 pm
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

The other day i had a thought, what if he meant Sirius? Because Harry blamed Snape's for Sirius's death didn't he?


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  #99  
Old August 8th, 2007, 12:11 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebusrocks View Post
oh, you're talking about the SECOND line, I thought you were talking about the first! Snape's just twisted up and decided to add in James to see Harry even more angry
Yeah, I'm talking about when Snape mentioned James after Harry tried to use Levicorpus on him and Harry saying "Kill me then, kill me like you killed him."


  #100  
Old August 15th, 2007, 1:28 am
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Re: "Kill me like you killed him" - Dumbledore?...Or James.

Harry meant Dumbledore, not James. James is only referred to in the general sense that both the conversation is tainted heavily on both sides with the knowledge of Snape and James' animosity.


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