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Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 26th, 2007, 9:36 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Or maybe Ollivander disappeared because he was supplying the good side with wands....the best wands...wands that fight Voldemort....


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  #62  
Old March 26th, 2007, 9:50 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by mdb09 View Post
Or maybe Ollivander disappeared because he was supplying the good side with wands....the best wands...wands that fight Voldemort....
I think it was so he could question Ollivander about the wands because he doesn't understand what happened to Harry and him when they dueled. Harry (and the readers) understand because Ollivander told us in SS/PS that they had brother wands, and Dumbledore explains to us why they won't work on eachother. Maybe he thinks Ollivander can find a way around this complication or wants him to fashion him a new wand. I also agree that he doesn't want Ollivander selling more wands to the general community.


  #63  
Old March 26th, 2007, 10:29 pm
Durmstrangirl73  Female.gif Durmstrangirl73 is offline
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by mdb09 View Post
I think LV only had one wand. Each wizard is meant for a single wand, which is why they perform best with it. LV was brilliant his entire life, and Ollivander recalls selling it to the young Tom Riddle. Do you have any canon besides the graveyard scene to back your theory up? I think it just stopped at the Potters because it was useless information before that and Jo didn't need it.
The Potters were the last echoes to come out of the wand because the connection was broken.

"The last murders the wand performed," said Dumbledore, nodding. "In reverse order. More would have appeared, of course had you maintained the connection..." (GoF US Hardcover ed., p698)

This leads me to believe that the wand would have produced more echoes. We don't know if, when Tom Riddle purchased his wand from Ollivander, if Ollivander sent an owl to Dumbledore informing him which wand had chosen Tom. Since the wand had a brother, I think this would have been a highly significant bit of information, because then it was known that somewhere down the line it would become important whom the brother wand would go to.
I think Voldemort's wand is still the same one he purchased as the 11 year old Tom Riddle. I agree with all the previous posters who have said that Ollivander would have never sold the wand to a notorious murderer as Lord Voldemort.

Now, some of you have mentioned that Voldemort would not have made it common knowledge that he was really Tom Riddle, the charming, intelligent Head Boy from Hogwarts. I think that alot of his fellow alumni and also the wizarding community do know who he really is, but just are afraid to talk about it. I imagine that those who knew him fairly well knew what he was capable of even as a 16 year old, were even more afraid of what he would be capable of as an immortal 67 year old. If anyone would go to them inquiring about Tom Riddle, and a Death Eater was following the inquirers around, it would mean that their location could be traced, and their existence erased. So if anyone did know who Voldemort really is, they would never tell. Not to say that Voldemort didn't take his own measures to disassociate himself with his part muggle heritage. He had asked his closest followers at Hogwarts to start calling him by his alias of "Lord Voldemort", and they followed along. After that, that was the only name he was to be called. I think this is one of the main reasons he fears Dumbledore so much. Dumbledore was the only one who called him by his birth name, and was not afraid to humble him by reminding him of where he really came from, even if he was trying to convince himself and others otherwise. He saw Tom at the orphanage, could already see that unpleasant gleam in his eye at finding out he was a wizard, and extraordinary. Dumbledore was the only one who was convinced that Hagrid hadn't opened the Chamber of Secrets, and suspected it might have been Tom (p312 CoS US ed hardcover). Dumbledore knows what Voldemort is all about, and does not fear him. That is why Voldemort fears Dumbledore-Dumbledore has watched over him much like he has watched over Harry, knows how to hurt him, and how to humble the beast and bring out the man.


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Last edited by Durmstrangirl73; March 26th, 2007 at 10:33 pm.
  #64  
Old March 26th, 2007, 10:36 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by Pat4891 View Post
Dumbledore stated in GOF that if Harry and Voldy ahd kept the connection more dead wizards would have appeared. Dumbledore would know how many wands Voldy had.
That is true, if Dumbledore remembers that is. With a pensieve one could look at a memory of Tom Riddle, and compare it to a memory he may have of Voldemort to see if there are different wands at play. Good catch, Pat4891!!!


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Old March 26th, 2007, 11:52 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by Durmstrangirl73 View Post
I think that alot of his fellow alumni and also the wizarding community do know who he really is, but just are afraid to talk about it. I imagine that those who knew him fairly well knew what he was capable of even as a 16 year old, were even more afraid of what he would be capable of as an immortal 67 year old. If anyone would go to them inquiring about Tom Riddle, and a Death Eater was following the inquirers around, it would mean that their location could be traced, and their existence erased. So if anyone did know who Voldemort really is, they would never tell.

I agree. The wizarding community is terrified to even mention the name "Lord Voldemort", so why would they call him by his actual birth name. A name he clearly has taken great lengths to erase.


  #66  
Old March 27th, 2007, 12:08 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

His name was common to the people he went to school with, but since he was going to the dark side, he wanted to conceal his identity, so that people would later fear him as Lord voldemort, and not see him as a prefect and headboy, and an overall good student, because that would ruin his rep.


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Old March 27th, 2007, 1:34 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I'm inclined to think that most people that knew him as Tom Riddle did a Slughorn and were so embarressed that the boy that they had predicted would be so awesome and wonderful as an adult turned out to be so evil and repulsive. They probably never spoke of the fact that they had once been acquainted with Lord Voldemort (though he had used a different name at the time, they would still be ashamed). I'm also inclined to think that the people that were ashamed, like Slughorn, to admit that they knew the boy Voldemort, were mostly his teachers, because the people closest to him, the ones that he probably told to address him as "Voldemort" while he was still at school, were probably students, who in all likelihood went on to become the first Death Eaters.

Also, I doubt that most people made the connection between brilliant, handsome Tom Riddle, who worked for a year at a shop and then quietly disappeared, to terrifying, horrible Lord Voldemort. I think it would take somebody like Slughorn, who tends to follow up on his students (especially the ones that he identified as having the potential to do great things and go far), to realize that Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort were one and the same. I expect Slughorn was very interested in Tom Riddle's fate (everybody, while he was at school, thought that he would be such a great guy), to follow up on him that much. He probably asked Dumbledore, who would have told him that Tom Riddle became Lord Voldemort. I expect Slughorn wasn't very happy to hear that...


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  #68  
Old March 27th, 2007, 5:53 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by LeiaShadow View Post
Also, I doubt that most people made the connection between brilliant, handsome Tom Riddle, who worked for a year at a shop and then quietly disappeared, to terrifying, horrible Lord Voldemort. I think it would take somebody like Slughorn, who tends to follow up on his students (especially the ones that he identified as having the potential to do great things and go far), to realize that Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort were one and the same. I expect Slughorn was very interested in Tom Riddle's fate (everybody, while he was at school, thought that he would be such a great guy), to follow up on him that much. He probably asked Dumbledore, who would have told him that Tom Riddle became Lord Voldemort. I expect Slughorn wasn't very happy to hear that...
After Tom Riddle left Hogwarts, he went to work at Borgin and Burke's, a rather mundane job, and shady for someone who could have otherwise had potential to make Slughorn another fine contact in the world.

Slughorn relishes in the success of his former students by the things they give him, and advantages he enjoys. If someone never, or no longer shows that he has the potential to elevate Slughorn's status, wealth, goodie drawers, or informational contact, then he drops them like a hot potato. They are useless to him, and thus are discarded.

After joining the ranks of employment at Borgin and Burke's Slughorn would no longer see Tom's potential. He would have felt that Tom Riddle had turned his back on the opportunity for greatness. Little did Slughorn know that it was a means to an end for Tom Riddle/Voldemort. But I digress... Slughorn no longer wasted his time with Tom Riddle, because he no longer saw any benefit for him in continuing his mentoring or contact.


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  #69  
Old March 28th, 2007, 4:41 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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. But I digress... Slughorn no longer wasted his time with Tom Riddle, because he no longer saw any benefit for him in continuing his mentoring or contact.
And Slughorn was probably so upset about it. Riddle seemed to be his favorite. Riddle was ambitious and liked presenting himself in a favorable manner to teachers and others for his own ends. But, I imagine if he didn't care about the Slug Club as Harry doesn't, then Slughorn would have been after him and checking his schedule, just like he does with Harry. Poor Slughorn, he can't always spot the good ones.


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Old March 28th, 2007, 5:19 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Hagrid knew. Though he doesn't mention Tom Riddle by name, in PS/SS he is able to tell Harry that Voldemort was in Slytherin in Hogwarts, years and years ago. Of course, he went to school with Tom Riddle, was framed by him and expelled, and is close to Dumbledore to be entrusted with secrets and other things. Most people in the population that Harry has met are /not/ sixty or seventy years old, and if they knew they probably wouldn't want to share that they went to school with Tom Riddle. And most of those students closest to Riddle became the first Death Eaters, so they probably wouldn't go parading around that Voldemort used to be called "Tom"; they would try to act as if he's always been an Impressive Unnamable Dark Lord.

I'm still puzzled why Dumbledore didn't spread it around that Tom Riddle wa Voldemort... maybe he didn't want others to guess that he was trying to research about Voldemort's past or something...?


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  #71  
Old March 28th, 2007, 5:24 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I believe that Voldemort placed memory charms on all of the Deatheaters that knew his true identity.


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  #72  
Old March 28th, 2007, 6:00 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I'm sure most people wouldn't make the connection between the handsome, charming, intelligent young man from Hogwarts and the evil, cruel, snake-like shell of a man that is VM today.

Those who knew him in school such as DD, Slughorn, Ollivander, Hagrid and McGonagall would know and whoever they told would know. Maybe also a select few that figured it out, and also Death Eaters.

Mostly I'm sure it was fear that people didn't spread VM true identity or maybe also that if they revealed they knew this information about VM, they would be associated with him? I'm sure VM would seek our anyone ordinary that had information on his past and finish them off.


  #73  
Old March 28th, 2007, 7:34 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

ytea its never discussed or anything it should be common room gossip


  #74  
Old March 28th, 2007, 10:24 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

What purpose would it have served? The Death Eaters wouldn't have believed their master was less than a pure blood, (knowing who he was related to)would they?


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Old March 28th, 2007, 11:09 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monadblue
Mostly I'm sure it was fear that people didn't spread VM true identity or maybe also that if they revealed they knew this information about VM, they would be associated with him? I'm sure VM would seek our anyone ordinary that had information on his past and finish them off.
Yep I agree. Voldemort had tried to erase his muggle heritage as much as possible and anyone who reminded him of that would surely die in his hands, not to mention that it would also mean that he's removing those who know about his past from his path. He might target Slughorn next since he was the one to whom Voldemort had asked about the Horcruxes.


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  #76  
Old March 28th, 2007, 11:14 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I think that because most of the people who knew Voldemort's real name was Tom Riddle are either his death eaters or have been killed at his hands OR like Dumbledore and Hagrid feel that Tom Riddle died the moment he chose Evil and decide not to mention VOldemoert as Tom.


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Old March 28th, 2007, 11:33 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I dont knw..its an intersting question though...it might be you knw that vodemort didnt want to really publicise his muggle parentage, and maybe dumbledore wanted to keep as much he knew abt voldemort private.
obviously the others who knew abt riddle being voldemort (Slughorn, for instance) didnt really want to to make public any relation or aquaintance they had with voldemort, when he was young...it miust be to them a "disgrace"..


  #78  
Old March 28th, 2007, 6:38 pm
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by Saint_Potter View Post
Yes I think Tom bought his original wand as an 11 year old heading to Hogwarts, but after leaving Hogwarts, he at some point went back to Ollivander and purchased another wand. This would be the wand with the phoenix feather core, the wand Tom used as Voldemort. That way there is no further record of Tom Riddle.

In fact, with Priori Incantetum, why was it that the spirits stopped with the Potters? Is it possible they were the first murders he committed with that wand?
I think your last point is very important, as Voldemort may have broken his wand before killing the Potters, then gone to get another one. However, I don't think that theory works as Ollivander remembers Tom Riddle buying the wand with the phoenix feather. Maybe he used someone else's wand for the rest of the murders.
Or, perhaps he did lots of jinxes or shield charms which just don't show up in priori incantatem, so there were other people waiting to come out of the wand, they just didn't make it. He used Morfin's wand to kill his father and his grandparents, so maybe he was powerful enough to use any wizards wand to use the killing curse. Maybe he wanted to use Lily or James' wand to kill them and Harry, but was unable to get it?


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  #79  
Old March 29th, 2007, 12:12 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

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Originally Posted by Durmstrangirl73
I think that alot of his fellow alumni and also the wizarding community do know who he really is, but just are afraid to talk about it. I imagine that those who knew him fairly well knew what he was capable of even as a 16 year old, were even more afraid of what he would be capable of as an immortal 67 year old. If anyone would go to them inquiring about Tom Riddle, and a Death Eater was following the inquirers around, it would mean that their location could be traced, and their existence erased. So if anyone did know who Voldemort really is, they would never tell.
Perhaps, but in HBP we are told that Tom Riddle disapeared after working in Borgin and Burkes for some time. When he came out into the open he had renounced the name of Tom Riddle for good and had made several horcruxes changing his appearance more severley than age would. Those who would recognize him would have to be paying immense attention to him or have known in Hogwarts, where he was already known as LV to his closest friends.


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  #80  
Old March 29th, 2007, 1:33 am
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Re: Why was Voldemort's true identity as Tom Riddle not common knowledge?

I think that since Voldemort disappeared for so long and his appearance changed so dramaticly people didn't recognize him.


 
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