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Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 26th, 2007, 2:28 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

If Grindelwald was defeated by Dumbledore, then I doubt that anyone, especially a student from Hogwarts would be able to contact him. If he was defeated, then he was either dead, or in Askaban. I doubt that Voldermort could have spoken with him in either case. The only other possibility would be that he left books about his beliefs, and that Tom Riddle read these to learn about Grindelwald.


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  #42  
Old March 26th, 2007, 3:58 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Voldmort may have learned from Grindelwald but I don't think the learning came from him personally. I may have been something written. The information on Horcruxes must be written someplace. It just can't be found at Hogwarts. Tom Riddle had to leave Hogwarts to research the Horcrux and how to make one.


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  #43  
Old March 26th, 2007, 1:35 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

I don't know if he mentored him personally by this time Riddle knew he was the heir of slytherin. In Riddles opinion that made him the greatest wizard in the world. Grindelwald was probably someone he admired but knew he would have to be out of the way before Riddle took over the wizarding world and continued slytherins great work.


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  #44  
Old March 26th, 2007, 4:19 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Shot down!


  #45  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:43 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Grindelwald wasn't the first to make a Horcrux, however, I belive that, When JK. Rowling, said that "Dumbledore defeated, Grindelwald." I think she meant that Dumbledore didn't kill him, possably taken all his wizarding powers from him? [And succeeded.]

I say this because I couldn't see Dumbledore killing somone, plus what's a darkwizards most feared moment, we all know what Voldemorts is, and it isn't death. We all know what he thinks about Muggles, and Mud Bloods.

After that, Grindelwald lived miserably as a muggle thinking over his mistakes, and how he could have succeded. Then a young boy comes to his door, asking many questions about Horcrux's, that Slughorn got him interested in, Tom, the young boy studied for awhile, under Grindelwald, until he learn't how to do more and more about the dark arts. From who at the time was the scariest evil lord. [Who woul dbe a muggle.]

Then Tom kill's Grindelwald, since he was a muggle.

This would explain the 25 years missing and, him leaving Hogwarts at 1945, now since he was dipping his toes in the Dark Arts. He goes and trys out what he's learnt, things like, Killing his Grandparents in the same year he leaves Hogwarts, aswell as his father.



Last edited by SharpMarkr; March 26th, 2007 at 7:46 pm.
  #46  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:54 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpMarkr View Post
Grindelwald wasn't the first to make a Horcrux, however, I belive that, When JK. Rowling, said that "Dumbledore defeated, Grindelwald." I think she meant that Dumbledore didn't kill him, possably taken all his wizarding powers from him? [And succeeded.]
That could be an explaination, although I don't agree with the way he defeated him. We know that Grindelwald is dead, but "defeat" really doesn't necessary means killing. He could have died later as well. So there could be time for him to teach Tom.


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  #47  
Old March 26th, 2007, 7:58 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
That could be an explaination, although I don't agree with the way he defeated him. We know that Grindelwald is dead, but "defeat" really doesn't necessary means killing. He could have died later as well. So there could be time for him to teach Tom.
My explanation didn't say that Grindelwald was Killed by Dumbledore, and J.K said that Grindelwald was 100% dead, which is what I think happened. Dumbledore knows that there are worse things then death. So why not use them?

And we all know that Tom hates Muggles, so then Tom killed Grindelwald.


  #48  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:07 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by SharpMarkr View Post
My explanation didn't say that Grindelwald was Killed by Dumbledore, and J.K said that Grindelwald was 100% dead, which is what I think happened. Dumbledore knows that there are worse things then death. So why not use them?

And we all know that Tom hates Muggles, so then Tom killed Grindelwald.
Actually I agreed with you in my post, about that Dumbledore didn't need to kill Grindelwald then.

But when Dumbledore removed Grindelwalds power, he wouldn't be of any use for Tom. OK, he could explain it to him, but not showing him by performing the magic himself. *is pondering*


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  #49  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:12 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Well Slughorn got Tom interested in Horcrux's, and tom made one Horcrux in his young age, [the diary] I think Tom would like to know how to make a second, and no one knows how, because it's pritty complecated. If you want I wouldn't mind explaining how I think it would be complecated through Msn.
Anyways, Tom want's to make a second, and unfortunatly, the only live person that he knows of that has A Horcrux is Grindelwald. Maybe Tom thought that Grindelwald knew how to make more then one? And even still, you don't need to show how to do it. Take the third book for example, when Lupin teaches Potter, how to do the Petronas charm.

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  #50  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:20 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

I don't know anyone better then Grindelwald(if it's true)to have full knowledge of horcruxes other than maybe Dumbledore.So Voldy might have have been his pupil.Thanks for the brilliant idea.


  #51  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:22 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Even still, if dumbledore had knowledge, he wouldn't tell anyone anything. =]


  #52  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:23 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
But when Dumbledore removed Grindelwalds power, he wouldn't be of any use for Tom. OK, he could explain it to him, but not showing him by performing the magic himself.
Tom didn't need Slughorn to show him how to create a Horcrux, yet he managed to make not only one but 7. So you can assume that if Grindelwald had indeed taught Tom then he would have managed to learn it.

But I disagree. Why? Because Dumbledore recognizes both Tom Riddle and Grindelwald, and when he undoes the barrier in the cave he says that he knows Tom's style having taught him for years. Now if Voldemort had set those things up as he would and with his own style and fashion, why would he need Grindelwald? I mean he can do so many things on his own, by his own research and discoveries...moreover Dumbledore would have detected Grindelwald teaching Voldemort seeing that he would have recognized his style in Voldemort.


  #53  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:27 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
Tom didn't need Slughorn to show him how to create a Horcrux, yet he managed to make not only one but 7. So you can assume that if Grindelwald had indeed taught Tom then he would have managed to learn it.

But I disagree. Why? Because Dumbledore recognizes both Tom Riddle and Grindelwald, and when he undoes the barrier in the cave he says that he knows Tom's style having taught him for years. Now if Voldemort had set those things up as he would and with his own style and fashion, why would he need Grindelwald? I mean he can do so many things on his own, by his own research and discoveries...moreover Dumbledore would have detected Grindelwald teaching Voldemort seeing that he would have recognized his style in Voldemort.

... Tom learnt about horcrux's from Slughorn, what do you mean he didn't need him.. If you're trying to learn something new, you ask somone first, you don't head right into study, because it would be a mis use of time, if somone knows it.

We know for sure that Slughorn and Tom talked about Horcrux's. Tom needed Slughorn, or else he would only have to be killed once, and the books are over.


  #54  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:34 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpMarkr View Post
Well Slughorn got Tom interested in Horcrux's, and tom made one Horcrux in his young age, [the diary] I think Tom would like to know how to make a second, and no one knows how, because it's pritty complecated. If you want I wouldn't mind explaining how I think it would be complecated through Msn.
Anyways, Tom want's to make a second, and unfortunatly, the only live person that he knows of that has A Horcrux is Grindelwald. Maybe Tom thought that Grindelwald knew how to make more then one? And even still, you don't need to show how to do it. Take the third book for example, when Lupin teaches Potter, how to do the Petronas charm.
Not true, Tom knew of the Horcruxes before the Slughorn class. He said that he read of them. And he particurally wanted to know how to make one, when he already made on (diary) then why bothering to ask how to make one. I don't think you need another spell for each Horcrux you create.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mysterious View Post
Tom didn't need Slughorn to show him how to create a Horcrux, yet he managed to make not only one but 7. So you can assume that if Grindelwald had indeed taught Tom then he would have managed to learn it.

But I disagree. Why? Because Dumbledore recognizes both Tom Riddle and Grindelwald, and when he undoes the barrier in the cave he says that he knows Tom's style having taught him for years. Now if Voldemort had set those things up as he would and with his own style and fashion, why would he need Grindelwald? I mean he can do so many things on his own, by his own research and discoveries...moreover Dumbledore would have detected Grindelwald teaching Voldemort seeing that he would have recognized his style in Voldemort.
But the fact that Tom ran to Slughorn to find out how to create Horcruxes is a sign IMO that his knowledge was limited in this case. We know that Tom is a loner who likes to not to trust others. I think that he tried to manage it as well, before consulting third parties.

And about Dumbledore recognising something. We don't know how creating a Horcrux really works. It could be as well that Horcruxes exists since centuries and are created always in the same way. You wouldn't recognise any particular style then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpMarkr View Post
... Tom learnt about horcrux's from Slughorn, what do you mean he didn't need him.. If you're trying to learn something new, you ask somone first, you don't head right into study, because it would be a mis use of time, if somone knows it.

We know for sure that Slughorn and Tom talked about Horcrux's. Tom needed Slughorn, or else he would only have to be killed once, and the books are over.
Tom wanted to know from Slughorn how you create Horcruxes, but Slughorn refused to tell him.


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  #55  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:41 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
Not true, Tom knew of the Horcruxes before the Slughorn class. He said that he read of them. And he particurally wanted to know how to make one, when he already made on (diary) then why bothering to ask how to make one. I don't think you need another spell for each Horcrux you create.



But the fact that Tom ran to Slughorn to find out how to create Horcruxes is a sign IMO that his knowledge was limited in this case. We know that Tom is a loner who likes to not to trust others. I think that he tried to manage it as well, before consulting third parties.

And about Dumbledore recognising something. We don't know how creating a Horcrux really works. It could be as well that Horcruxes exists since centuries and are created always in the same way. You wouldn't recognise any particular style then.

Yes, however, if you get more knowledge you become more powerful. I don't think it would be another spell, just balancing your soul out so you have more soul in your body then the Horcrux's, aswell as, what could or would happen. Aswell as, I think he wouldn't be scared, specially, if he was heading to a Muggle, and knows the three unforgivable curses, I really don't think Tom would be scared of anything to happen, like I think he would feel secure just talking.

Plus there arn't any books on Horcrux's it tells you what it is, and what it does, but no spells or incantations to make it, because it's forbidden under the Ministry.


Indeed, which would be why, he would go to Grindelwald.


  #56  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:44 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Voldy knew DD wouldn't teach him so he may have gone to Grindy.Sharpmarkr


  #57  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:47 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Actually, I think he went to Slughorn then Grindelwald. But yeah, the thing is, is that he is important, and many harry potter "Fans" don't know much about him.


  #58  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:49 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Plus there arn't any books on Horcrux's it tells you what it is, and what it does, but no spells or incantations to make it, because it's forbidden under the Ministry.
It's a banned topic yes, but we don't know when it was banned. Maybe there existed books about how to create them earlier.


Quote:
Indeed, which would be why, he would go to Grindelwald.
Because Grindelwald was the big bad guy back then. And when not learning from from him, then from whom else?


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  #59  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:52 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
But the fact that Tom ran to Slughorn to find out how to create Horcruxes is a sign IMO that his knowledge was limited in this case. We know that Tom is a loner who likes to not to trust others. I think that he tried to manage it as well, before consulting third parties.
But you agree that he firstly looked up for it, and then resorted to asking Slughorn. That was teenage Tom Riddle who didn't have his resources as spread out as he had them since he left Hogwarts. Slughorn said, that one would be hard-pushed to find a book at Hogwarts that'll give them details on Horcruxes, but he never said that there weren't books out there that would have given him the information on Horcruxes. I agree that he wouldn't have known if he could split his soul more than once since Dumbledore makes that point, but that piece of evidence is enough to suggest that the resources of Tom were limited when at Hogwarts, once out he was a free bird and could research whatever he wanted extensively. Therefore it isn't necessary that he needed a mentor. Moreover he always claims everything that he did to be his own creation or research. I wouldn't go against that fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TENSHI View Post
And about Dumbledore recognising something. We don't know how creating a Horcrux really works. It could be as well that Horcruxes exists since centuries and are created always in the same way. You wouldn't recognise any particular style then.
Oh no, when I had said style, I didn't mean style of making of Horcruxes, for Dumbledore never saw the real one in the cave, I meant that Dumbledore had faced Voldemort enough (after he had come back in action all transformed) and all his ways and means were quite similar to Tom Riddle who he (Dumbledore) had taught. This clearly shows that he didn't have any mentor teach him anything for as one will agree the mentor is to affect the style of his pupil in one way or the other. But that is not the case with Voldemort and hence he wasn't tutored by anyone, let alone Grindelwald.


  #60  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:53 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
It's a banned topic yes, but we don't know when it was banned. Maybe there existed books about how to create them earlier.
I might have to do some research.

Quote:
Because Grindelwald was the big bad guy back then. And when not learning from from him, then from whom else?
Indeed, but if Grindelwald still had power why would he tell Tom? Possably he seen himself in Tom? Or worse. That's a possability, but, if I was just defeated and created into a muggle from a feared Wizard, I would want vengence, and that is why I think Grindelwald would tell Tom anything he wanted to know, so that tom could one day kill Dumbledore.


 
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