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Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?



 
 
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  #61  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:56 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
This shows that Riddle was still unsure about how Horcruxes worked, and how to create them. However, not receiving a 'good enough' answer, I would assume that he would venture to find someone who could tell him more about Horcruxes.
I agree. The fact that Voldemort asks Sluggy twice how it is done, and also that Harry can see the wild glee on Voldemort's face, shows that Voldemort was finally getting information that he had long been seeking. At most, he had learned that Horcruxes were a way to stay immortal and that they involved a piece of the sou.


Grindelwald is a really simple explanation for this. As the foremost Dark Wizard of the time, Grindelwald has the highest probability of knowing the Encasing spell. This must be a very obscure piece of magic: it is pretty clear that none of the Death Eaters know much about it, or they would not have been misled by Voldemort's claims of "experiments" to find immortality. They would have worked out that Voldemort had long since known how to be immortal.

If this idea does turn out to be correct, then Harry will have a good idea for where to look for another Horcrux: the place where Voldemort learned the Horcrux spell must rank up there with the Shack, the Cave and the Chamber in terms of places of personal importance.


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  #62  
Old March 26th, 2007, 8:56 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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But you agree that he firstly looked up for it, and then resorted to asking Slughorn. That was teenage Tom Riddle who didn't have his resources as spread out as he had them since he left Hogwarts. Slughorn said, that one would be hard-pushed to find a book at Hogwarts that'll give them details on Horcruxes, but he never said that there weren't books out there that would have given him the information on Horcruxes. I agree that he wouldn't have known if he could split his soul more than once since Dumbledore makes that point, but that piece of evidence is enough to suggest that the resources of Tom were limited when at Hogwarts, once out he was a free bird and could research whatever he wanted extensively. Therefore it isn't necessary that he needed a mentor. Moreover he always claims everything that he did to be his own creation or research. I wouldn't go against that fact.
I think that it was a banned topic though. Like I said before i'll have to do some research. It was probably before 1945 when they banned it. It wouldn't make sence having something that could make you live again, sitting in your local library. [That would be like selling bombs to a Terrorist..] >>;;


  #63  
Old March 26th, 2007, 9:16 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
The place where Voldemort learned the Horcrux spell must rank up there with the Shack, the Cave and the Chamber in terms of places of personal importance.
Yeah, it looks like Harry's gonna have to hit the books and find out more about important places in the first war!


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  #64  
Old March 26th, 2007, 9:47 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by dobbysocks View Post
Yeah, it looks like Harry's gonna have to hit the books and find out more about important places in the first war!
Those probably are too late: Voldemort probably had hidden the "cached" Horcruxes (Ring, Locket, Cup, Unknown) by then.

Realistically, Voldemort would want places that would not be in history books (like the Cave and Shack) or associated with his name (like the Chamber). However, where he learned how to make a Horcrux would be such a place, especially if that was with Grindelwald.

This also might be why we will see Krum in Hallows: Grindelwald likely was in Central or Eastern Europe given his name. So, Rowling could kill several birds with one stone here.


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  #65  
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:11 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

I don't think so. Wasn't Gridnelwald before Riddle's time?


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  #66  
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:15 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Indeed, and though i'm not 100% sure, I would suppose Durmstrang is either in Germany or Austria. ;]
Quote:
I don't think so. Wasn't Gridnelwald before Riddle's time?
Uhm no, riddle was getting out of Hogwarts when Grindelwald was being defeated. >>;


  #67  
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:30 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

I think that Grindelwald did teach Voldemort how to make Horcruxes since he was a great dark wizard at that time!...But for what reason would he want to teach Tom Riddle for?...Maybe he did see something great in Tom and he took him under his wing and taught him everything he needed to know about Horcruxes and maybe because Voldemort was the Heir of the great Salayzar Slytherin?!!....I think that Grindelwald and Voldemort were something like the evil twisted version of Harry and Dumbledore?!


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  #68  
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:43 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dobbysocks
Yeah, it looks like Harry's gonna have to hit the books and find out more about important places in the first war!
What will prove important will be in the construction of the Horcruxes. This may be documentation from Grindelwald that be critical. Knowing how to make one is key to taking them apart without dire consequences.


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  #69  
Old March 26th, 2007, 11:54 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by SharpMarkr View Post
Uhm no, riddle was getting out of Hogwarts when Grindelwald was being defeated. >>;
How do we know this? Is there a quote or something that can tell us for sure??


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  #70  
Old March 27th, 2007, 12:03 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
What will prove important will be in the construction of the Horcruxes. This may be documentation from Grindelwald that be critical. Knowing how to make one is key to taking them apart without dire consequences.
There is no reason to think that there are any dire consequences to destroying a Horcrux. Nothing happened to Harry when he destroyed the Diary. Dumbledore was hurt by a curse protecting the Ring, but he never said anything to suggest that releasing/destroying the soul fragment within caused any harm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiaShadow View Post
How do we know this? Is there a quote or something that can tell us for sure??
In Stone, we learn that Grindelwald was defeated in 1945. In Chamber, we learn that it is 1992, and that the Chamber had been opened 50 years before. We know that Voldemort was a 5th year at that time, which means he finished in 1945. We also know that Voldemort was 17 at New Years during his 6th year, which means that he could freely apparate anywhere during the summer of 1944.


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Last edited by Wimsey; March 27th, 2007 at 12:05 am.
  #71  
Old March 27th, 2007, 12:12 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
There is no reason to think that there are any dire consequences to destroying a Horcrux. Nothing happened to Harry when he destroyed the Diary. Dumbledore was hurt by a curse protecting the Ring, but he never said anything to suggest that releasing/destroying the soul fragment within caused any harm.
By "Dire Consequence" I do not mean that it is necessarily something that is immediately apparent.


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  #72  
Old March 27th, 2007, 12:31 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
By "Dire Consequence" I do not mean that it is necessarily something that is immediately apparent.
Regardless, there is no indication that there are any dire consquences, immediate or delayed, of destroying a Horcrux!


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  #73  
Old March 27th, 2007, 12:43 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by Wimsey View Post
Regardless, there is no indication that there are any dire consquences, immediate or delayed, of destroying a Horcrux!
I don't know, each one seems to have a protective curse on it. I mean Harry almost got killed by the Basilsk when he tried to destroy the diary!


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  #74  
Old March 27th, 2007, 1:02 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by dobbysocks View Post
I don't know, each one seems to have a protective curse on it. I mean Harry almost got killed by the Basilsk when he tried to destroy the diary!
Nothing happened when Harry tried to destroy the Diary. The basilisk already was dead before Harry even seized upon the idea: Harry was poisoned and dying. Harry was not trying to destroy the diary when he was fighting the basilisk: mostly, he was just trying to stay alive!

Dumbledore was hurt by one of the protective curses, not by "de-Horcruxing" the Ring.

We should expect that the other Horcruxes will have protections. However, once Harry gets the object out of the place, we have no reason to think that he'll be in any particular danger.


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  #75  
Old March 28th, 2007, 5:45 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Yeah sorry, just to clarify, I'm not saying the actual Horcrux is dangerous, but it's looking like Voldemort has got them pretty well protected!


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  #76  
Old March 29th, 2007, 12:05 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Well, how would Riddle have found out about Horcruxes if they are a banned subject at Hogwarts and he has no wizarding family to inform him about them. Does that mean that he found Grindelwald, who might have told him about the Horcruxes, and maybe explained them to him. Just something to think about I guess.


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  #77  
Old March 29th, 2007, 12:20 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

It's possible (I've wondered where he learned the spell to create Horcruxes), but Tom Riddle prefered to work alone if he could help it. I don't think he would have liked the idea of being able to accredit his achievement of immortality to someone else.


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  #78  
Old April 15th, 2007, 10:15 pm
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

We know that Tom didn't create the spell to make Horcruxes, so it logically folllows that, like most of hiis other knowledge, he must have learned it from someone


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  #79  
Old April 16th, 2007, 5:25 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

Well, Tom Riddle dosen't strike me as a guy who would become a servant or a follower or even a student, once he was overage, I think though that as he had to learn the dark stuff from somebody, grindelwald was the guy to do it, but still dont see it gridelwald the master and tom the servant hmm...? nah


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  #80  
Old April 16th, 2007, 5:43 am
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Re: Did Grindelwald mentor Tom Riddle?

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Originally Posted by magia View Post
Well, Tom Riddle dosen't strike me as a guy who would become a servant or a follower or even a student, once he was overage, I think though that as he had to learn the dark stuff from somebody, grindelwald was the guy to do it, but still dont see it gridelwald the master and tom the servant hmm...? nah
Whomever Tom Riddle associated with during the time that, in DD's words, "He associated with the worst of our kind" (and that's one of the only two pieces of canon we have for tha time period in LV's history; the second being that his appearance became more mutilated), I agree that Tom Riddle didn't see his role as that of a servant. I'd compare him more to a parasite or leech - he attached himself to the "mentor" for as long as needed, and as soon as the mentor wasn't useful, he detached himself. He may have killed the mentor or simply left; depending on the situation.

Getting back to Grindelwald, he's certainly a possibility for the early part of Tom Riddle's foray deep into the Dark Arts. Because I think that in no way would a powerful Grindelwald have taken an apprentice, I think that Tom Riddle got his information from Grindelwald unwittingly. Or, he got his info from a "powerless" Grindelwald, if the theory that DD stripped Grindelwald of his magical powers is true.


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