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Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations



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  #1  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 3:07 am
navygreen  Female.gif navygreen is offline
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Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Discussion for The Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations by Brandon Ford.


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  #2  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 3:54 am
Eva414  Undisclosed.gif Eva414 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Great job! I agree that Lupin is the one to get a reprieve! Can't wait for the next one, keep up the good work!!


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 4:00 am
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I was glad to see that you had another editorial for us to enjoy. I agree with you that it is Lupin who gets the reprieve. The original plan may have been to take out all of Harry's support system, but I really hope that JKR has decided that his death isn't necessary.

I hate to think that it is Hagrid who gets the ax, but it would make sense. Hagrid loved Dumbledore. He really doesn't serve a purpose after book 7, so he may be the one to go. I really don't want him too, though, and his giant skin is very tough. But JKR's slip up at the book reading seemed to be a hint that Hagrid was going to die.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 4:14 am
Accio_Book7  Male.gif Accio_Book7 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I agree with everything except Neville. JK said that one of the students would become a future Hogwarts prof, and who more apt than Neville? JK has already proved his courage so his selfless sacrafice for the greater good would not be unexpected, but I beleive that after everything Neville has been through, he will be spared. He has yet to live up to his parents abilities as aurors, and he has to survive to prove Gram-Gram wrong.

The Lupin repreive is a brilliant observation. I haven't spent a whole lot of time speculating that quote as I am not big into spoiling the book for myself, but I must say that I can totally concur. Thanks for another great entry!


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 4:15 am
notasquib2  Female.gif notasquib2 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Aw, geez, I really don't want Hagrid to die. He has been there since the very beginning: getting Harry out of Godric's Hollow, being the one to tell him he's a wizard. I agree he seems like a prime candidate, but his death would be sad to the point of morbidity. We already know what a brave person he is and what an old softie he is. Somehow I feel like a death would be used to highlight the nobility of a character, and we already know that about Hagrid. He also needs to be there while Harry isn't, because his loyalty means Dumbledore hasn't truly left Hogwarts. Maybe we will get lucky. Maybe he got the reprieve.

But the person I think was most likely to get a reprieve is Pettigrew, simply because I think he was most likely to die. Hope not. What a waste of a good reprieve. I just don't think he has served his purpose yet. Where's the life debt?

The two who die? Boy, that one is anyone's game, isn't it? All I can say is it had better not be Ron.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 4:52 am
mommcgonagall  Female.gif mommcgonagall is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Bloody Brilliant as always!
I agree that Lupin got the reprieve, but it could also be...dare I say it...TFPWSNBN--I'm convinced he was loyal to Dumbledore after the last month or so of editorials. That's not to say he's good, but I think he's playing LV for a huge fool! Remember the quote in OotP? "The Dark Lord ALMOST always knows when he is being lied to." (Occlumency chapter, American Hardback ed.) Implying that TFP can lie to him (LV) without his knowledge. Dumbledore's ultimate prime directive is what TFP cares about.
Anyway, rant over.
I also think that Hagrid will get the axe. He's around 60, and now that DD's gone, there's just no point...(Skewrts anyone?)

I don't know if Aberforth is important enough to snuff it. I mean, we just get to really meet him in DH--still a possibility, but really no emotional attachment for me.
What about Petunia???? Wouldn't that be sad? I know she was horrible to Harry, but she will give him insight about his mother that no one else can...hmmm.....
I think the two (to die) could also be Fred and George (sniff, sniff). That would be an emotional blow. They have a flair for business, but I think they will change their attitude about the Order, once they see their entire family sticking their necks out...

Great Job, looking forward to your next...
Mommcgonagall



Last edited by mommcgonagall; April 3rd, 2007 at 4:56 am.
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Old April 3rd, 2007, 5:27 am
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Mcgonagall and Draco get the cut.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 9:38 am
bhavz5  Female.gif bhavz5 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Great editorial as usual, you're forgiven for the time it took, its the quality that counts, and as long as you keep them coming.

Now, as for the editorial, i do agree on most of the points, and i didn't think about the 'matching pair' theory that much before, but i dunno, i think it will be very emotional if one character of any of the pairs die, i think hermione/ ron are safe for the reasons you mentioned, but i don't think the whole of the weasley family is safe, theres just too many of them, but i can't think who of them could die, even taking Percy into account, i believe he will have a chance to redeem himself, maybe he dies in the process.

i don't think Neville will die, i think he's only just got the chance to shine, he should grow up and become the herbology professor, afterall, Jo did say one of the students will become a teacher.

finally i agree with you about Hagrid, actually as much as i don't want him to die, i don't really have a doubt it will happen. Also, i'd like to hope and think you're right about Lupin, what a great character to get a reprieve, afterall, Harry will need him in the future. maybe he will live with Tonks and Lupin, because Harry is NOT going to die either!!!!!


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  #9  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 10:44 am
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I try not to get involved with the "who lives and who dies debate" because I usually get them wrong. However I agree with you that Lupin could be the one to get a reprieve. I won't name the people I expect to die because, as I said above, I am usually wrong in this respect.

Good editorial. It is to the point and not excessively long, unlike some editorials I have read over the years.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 10:50 am
bluejellybabie  Female.gif bluejellybabie is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Great editorial
Although i always thought Hagrid would die, im not sure when i read the editorial, because like it said people with purposes would prehaps not die because they have a story after part 7 I was thinking about GRWAP! i mean i dont think Hermione or Harry are going to look after him if Hagrid dies and the creatures in the forbidden forests i dont think professor grubby-plank will be able to do his job. Hagrid needs to be there for the job in the Forbidden forest and for Grwap!!
I really really hope none of the weaslys die but i have a feeling one will there always in danger Ginny in part 2 arthur in part 5 etc.
I dont know who will die but whoever it is i think i will be shocked *sniff*



Last edited by bluejellybabie; April 3rd, 2007 at 10:55 am.
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  #11  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 11:25 am
inkling7  Female.gif inkling7 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I'm hoping if Lupin was ddestined to die beofore that it's him that gets a reprieve - but not at the expense of a young person - except for Draco perhaps.

Hopefully Lucius Malfoy gets it along with Bellatrix, Fenrir and Voldemort.

Hagrid could have been for the chop all along so could he be the reprieve?

We don't know who was destined to live and die before so it's hard to say who will live and die now.

I hope you're right about the Harry and co though and that they all live.

I too think Neville is the unexpected and unlikey student who becomes a Hogwarts teacher (Herbology anyone?) but that could also be Luna do you think? She'd make an excellent eccentric professor at something.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 1:00 pm
Swisslady  Female.gif Swisslady is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Glad your back Brandon - missed your "wicked" editorials, which are always very informative and fun to read! I do hope you are right about Lupin.

Until today I was convinced that Minerva McGonagall was not going to make it - but then having your editorial in mind - who would be the next Headmaster in Hogwarts?

I am looking forward to your next editorial!


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 1:30 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I don't agree that people who are in love automatically get a reprieve. In alchemy, certainly a theme of the series, the alchemical couple dies. I think that's probably Bill and Fleur since their marriage will probably occur early in the book. I don't agree that the loss of a partner would keep either Ron or Hermione from being part of the epilogue. They both have a lot to contribute, and not just to each other.

I also think that Voldemort will be defeated at great cost. We won't take it seriously if it's done easily. War means, among other things, the loss of lovers. I think Hagrid is probably doomed, and I think at least one set of lovers in the book are going to be tragic lovers.

I also think we're going to lose some young people. So far it's only been Cedric. Draco is a possibility, but I feel sure we're going to lose Fred and/or George. They take risks, they don't stay within boundaries, they've been able to start the joke shop they always wanted, and they've got a large family to be concerned about. In addition, in the series they started out as Hogwarts kids but are now adults out on their own; killing them off will hurt us but won't be as tragic as if it was a fifteen-year-old.

I tend to think Snape will die, but I think that was probably always going to happen.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 3:13 pm
Snuffleupagus  Female.gif Snuffleupagus is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I'm not saying I don't think that Hagrid dies, but you were discussing "matching pairs." What about Hagrid and Madame Maxime?


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 3:37 pm
pottersleuth200  Undisclosed.gif pottersleuth200 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Brandon, you've bent the facts to fit your theory. Ginny and Harry are a pair, no matter how bravely he tried to separate from her in HBP, Hagrid and Madame Maxime are a pair, and what about Gawp, who needs Hagrid's guidance in the future? You could make the argument that Neville and Luna are a pair. And Charlie is not a pair, so he is safe? Where is the logic?
You really didnt give a good reason why Tonks and Lupin would not die as a pair, nor that the Weasley Twins would not die as a pair, nor that Ron and Hermione would not die as a pair. I personally think that there are only one possible explanation for how Jo changed her mind. I believe Jo had always intended Ginny to die, but to let Ron and Hermione live, and now she has killed off Ron and Hermione and allowed Ginny to live. The good news about that is that Harry would also live. Because he and Ginny are a pair. Im predicting at least ONE Weasley will die. If everyone is making sacrifices, there is no doubt one of them has to go.
PS. Glad you are back and looking forward to your next editorial.



Last edited by pottersleuth200; April 3rd, 2007 at 3:39 pm. Reason: added a thought
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Old April 3rd, 2007, 3:50 pm
StarAStar  Undisclosed.gif StarAStar is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Note that JKR's comment was about changes in survival, not about life or death situations that did not change. There may be many major characters that tragically die that have always been so condemned. Tragic deaths, in good literature, have to involve characters in whom the reader has invested a lot of positive emotion, or there is no tragedy.


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  #17  
Old April 3rd, 2007, 4:41 pm
Ursula Ursula is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I don't think one can simply assume that characters who are paired off will either both survive or both die.

It's a war, albeit an odd one, and in war, people die, even those with partners. JKR is old enough, and enough of a realist, to know this. To save or kill according to pairing off would create a certain triteness to the story, one where fate, not free will, determines destiny.

Given the major theme of "choices made" throughout the series, splitting up pairs could lead to some interesting dilemmas.

What if Ron, Hermione, and an innocent muggle were trapped, and Harry could only rescue them one at the time? Would he take the innocent muggle first, before his friends, who have at least a wizard's chance of saving themselves? What if that decision led to him being able to save two of the three, but the last, left behind, is killed before he can return for them?

Or turn it around - what if Ron or Hermione had to choose between saving Harry or the other half of their couple, knowing that Harry is the only one who could stop Voldemort?

And simply having to live with the aftermath of having the love of your life killed may be enough reason to save one and kill the other. Choosing to live, to fight on, etc., even after such a loss.


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 5:35 pm
phoenician  Undisclosed.gif phoenician is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Ursula, I have to agree with you. What a perfect example of a "fate worse than death."

I love your essays Brandon, even though I do not agree with this one. Keep them coming!


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 5:47 pm
Sherelle  Female.gif Sherelle is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

I loved your essay overall Brandon, but I agree somewhat with Ursula as well.

I've always thought that Lupin will survive to the end however. I think that someone from the maurauders has to be around so Harry has that connection to his parents without mommying Harry too much. I never felt that Lupin would get in the way of Harry's "kill Voldemort" plans like Doubledore would have, but rather would work with Harry/under Harry's command.

Let's hope your right about the trio though!


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Old April 3rd, 2007, 7:02 pm
lily313  Undisclosed.gif lily313 is offline
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Re: Underground Lake #39 - Reprieves and Condemnations

Glad to see you back again Brandon. I felt your editorial was really interesting, but flawed. I don't see any reason for being saved simply because you are part of a pair. I agree w/ Ursula, that the loss will be all the more felt if it is a single partner who dies and not the entire couple.

I agree with you that Lupin could be reprieved. I also agree that Hagrid will probably die in defense of Harry and I'm extremely worried about the twins or even worse, just one twin. I don't think that just because they have the joke shop they're not involved in the Order and fight to stop Voldemort. The Twins have always come to the rescue in one way or another and I see them as extremely valuable to the fight in weaponry development and just plain bravery. The Twins have never backed down from a tussle and I don't think they're just sitting back and bringing in the dough just for laughs.


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