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Dumbledore Was a Horcrux



 
 
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  #81  
Old May 1st, 2007, 2:31 am
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Hesper View Post
If... this ring also managed to place a bit of Voldy's soul into Dumbledore, then Skeelos' theory makes good sense and Dumbledore would likely know he had to die.
I think what makes this theory pretty much impossible is the fact that in order for Dumbledore to be a Horcrux, he would have had to have been made one on purpose. This means that Voldemort would have had to have gotten close enough to Dumbledore to make him one...which is highly unlikely.

This also means that Voldemort's wanting him dead makes absolutely no kind of sense whatsoever. Why destroy what's keeping you alive?


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  #82  
Old May 1st, 2007, 5:55 am
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

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Originally Posted by DarkDaysAhead View Post
I think what makes this theory pretty much impossible is the fact that in order for Dumbledore to be a Horcrux, he would have had to have been made one on purpose. This means that Voldemort would have had to have gotten close enough to Dumbledore to make him one...which is highly unlikely.

This also means that Voldemort's wanting him dead makes absolutely no kind of sense whatsoever. Why destroy what's keeping you alive?
Very nicely said, I agree.


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  #83  
Old May 15th, 2007, 9:11 pm
The_Scifanac  Male.gif The_Scifanac is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

I think I stumped skeelos... Another rediculous theory disproven by the Scifanac!


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  #84  
Old May 15th, 2007, 9:32 pm
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Then why hadnt he just waited until he was the last remaining Horcrux to die? And why would Voldemort send Draco to kill Dumbledore if he was a horcrux? Though I expect that could be justified by the fact that he was simply punishing Lucius for failing him seeing as he never expected Draco to succeed in killing Dumbledore.


  #85  
Old May 15th, 2007, 10:39 pm
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

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Originally Posted by The_Scifanac View Post
I think I stumped skeelos... Another rediculous theory disproven by the Scifanac!
Or maybe he got tired of explaining everything over and over considering everyone is bringing up the same points, hehe.

Honestly I can see where the theory makes sense, some people are just blinded by loyalty to Dumbledore that they refuse to accept it as possible. Yes the theory has holes, but so do the other theories on the last horcrux, hence them being theories and not fact.


  #86  
Old May 15th, 2007, 10:43 pm
The_Scifanac  Male.gif The_Scifanac is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

There could have been any number of reasons why Dumbledore arranged (If he did) his own death, but I don't think it was because he would destroy a horcrux in the process. Like you say yourself, EFISH, Dumbledore would do everything in his power to make sure that Horcruxes will continue to be destroyed. that fact that Dumbldrore let himself be killed by a plan from no more a person than Draco Malfoy goes against the argument that he's a horcrux becasue portecting Snape's cover is not as important as destroying Voldemort. Voldemort would not be too surprised if Dumbledore didn't die in this gambit. He's all but expecting Draco to be killed and he knows that Dumbledore is a more powerfull wizard than Snape, and he's not expecting Dumbledore to be unable to defend himself like he was. Dumbledore and Sanpe would have just as easily foiled the death eaters plans to kill Dumbledore and make it seem as though Snape and Malfoy were killed or pretend take Snape hostage, and then release him back to Voldmeort. Snape is a good enough Occlumens to portect himself. That way, Voldmeort could get his revenge on Lucius, Snape could continue spying on Voldemort (Unless Voldemort killed Sanpe as soon as he gets him back for failing, and according to skeelos Snape is trust worthy so he'd be willing to risk his life for Dumbledore that way), and Dumbledore could continue helping Harry find and destroy the horcruxes, then kill himself when all the others are gone. That would be a much more effective way to fight Voldemort. BUt Dumbleodre lets himself get killed after finding a fake horcrux and weakening himself with the emerald potion, leaving Harry without much idea of where to look for horcruxes next. There are fra more likely reasons why DUmbleore would let himself get killed than that he was a horcrux!


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  #87  
Old May 16th, 2007, 9:21 am
thorny  Undisclosed.gif thorny is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

I think it's an interesting theory, and has merit. I don't think Voldemort would mind sacrificing 1/7th of his soul to get rid of Dumbledore, just like Dumbledore thought that the loss of a hand was a good exchange for 1/7th of Voldemort's soul. We have already seen that Voldemort is somewhat careless with bits of his soul and doesn't mind using them as weapons (remember the Diary).

But then I like the DIATSSASI theory too. Humm. Food for thought.

The theory about the 2-way mirrors being intended as a horcrux doesn't hold much water though. There's no real evidence to back it up.


  #88  
Old May 16th, 2007, 10:17 am
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

I like the theory of DD as a horcrux, not sure it has me convinced tho, nothing in particular, just doesn't sit right...

Can anyone tell me what the DIATSSASI theory is and where I can read up on it please? I don't recognise the acronym... thankies!


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  #89  
Old May 16th, 2007, 11:12 am
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
17. Is there a way Voldemort could have caused Dumbledore to forget the ceremony which made him a Horcrux?
Yes. See Lockhart and memory charms in Chamber of Secrets, and recall that Voldemort is a master of that sort of thing. He is even capable of altering peopleís memory to the point that they will admit to something as horrible as a murder which they did not commit. Dumbledoreís memory has been altered which Harry notices in the Pensieve:

HBP page 446
"For a second, Harry was on the verge of shouting a pointless warning: He was sure that Voldemort's hand had twitched toward his pocket and his wand; but then the moment had passed, Voldemort had turned away, the door was closing, and he was gone."

Let me emphasize something there: ďHe was sure that Voldemortís hand had twitched to his pocket and his wand;Ē Clearly Dumbledoreís memory has been altered, Harry though, does not yet realize the importance of what heís seen.

When Voldemort applied for the DADA job, he made Dumbledore a Horcrux, and then used a memory charm to alter Dumbledoreís memory.
i can't see how on earth voldemort could have modified Dumbledore's memory, of all people...

Dumbledore is such a great and powerful wizard, that Voldemort is quite afraid of him. How on could the Dark Lord have managed to modify the headmaster's memory and turn him into a Horcrux without the latter noticing it even when he visited his own memory.. likewise, Dumbledore should ave been clever and powerful enough to have his guard miles up in te air...


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  #90  
Old May 16th, 2007, 2:25 pm
Samsung  Undisclosed.gif Samsung is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

If dumbledore was a horcrux that would explain why snape had to kill him . Dumbledore had to die so Harry cpuld kill the dark lord


  #91  
Old May 16th, 2007, 4:02 pm
thorny  Undisclosed.gif thorny is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

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Originally Posted by Atomic01 View Post
I like the theory of DD as a horcrux, not sure it has me convinced tho, nothing in particular, just doesn't sit right...

Can anyone tell me what the DIATSSASI theory is and where I can read up on it please? I don't recognise the acronym... thankies!
DIATSSASI stands for Dumbledore Impersonated A Trustworth Severus Snape At Spinner's End (that last I should have been an E, sorry about that). There's a thread devoted to it somewhere about.

I think the Dumbledore Was A Horcrux theory is plausible, but not possible. Dumbledore is not infallible, and it is potentially possible that Dumbledore may remember when Voldemort made him a Horcrux, but not been aware of what was happening at the time. Or, it could be that the ring was cursed so that if the stone in it was destroyed, the fragment of soul it contained would move into the person who destroyed it. Anyone who was able to find and destroy Voldemort's Horcrux would be a significant threat and it would be advantageous for Voldemort to make them a Horcrux. It would be a win-win situation: if they live, Voldemort cannot die, if they die, Voldemort loses 1/7th of his soul, but a big threat to him is destroyed. We have seen Voldemort treats his soul quite casually; he could make more Horcruxes.



Last edited by thorny; May 16th, 2007 at 4:07 pm.
  #92  
Old May 17th, 2007, 4:19 am
PixieBee  Female.gif PixieBee is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

skeelos, this theory is great.

I admit that there are holes in it(how DD became a horcrux) but the fact that he was one explains why he had to die. He needed Snape to kill him because he could not kill himself, and this would help solidify Snape's position with LV and help him not break the Unbreakable Vow he had made. LV had fully expected Draco to fail in his attempt, but I think that he would have been more than willing to sacrifice a peice of his soul to get rid of DD, because he was the only wizard that LV truly feared.

Another reason that DD was willing to sacrifice himself was because it would give LV a false sense of security, in that he would think that no one could stop him.

Lots of people have written in that this theory is just not plausable or believeable. That's why it is a THEORY! It explains things that have happened but doesn't explain everything because, like someone else has written, we haven't read the last book yet. We don't know everything that has happened.

How DD became a horcrux depends on a lot of factors. Has anyone thought of this....in HBP, Slughorn gave DD a edited memory to show Harry. Could the memory that DD showed Harry have been edited too? And why? Could it have been that DD saw something in the pensive that he had not wanted to show Harry, and what could that have been? Maybe he had seen LV creating the horcrux that was in DD and he did not want Harry to see this because he would have tried to stop DD from being killed.(Just a theory)


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  #93  
Old May 17th, 2007, 9:42 am
Kov  Undisclosed.gif Kov is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

This is an interesting theory. I won't agree with it. There are some flaws here and there which contradicts the theory. But this is an unsafe theory. However, I am with you when it comes to Snapes loyalty to Dumbledore and not Voldemort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
1. Is Snape loyal to Voldemort or Dumbledore?
Dumbledore. This is THE critical question. No other question comes close. The single most compelling hard evidence for the answer is in the first book when Snape is trying to counter-jinx Harryís broom. Snapeís excuses to the DEís completely fail to explain his action in trying to counter-jinx Harryís broom. There simply is no reason for him to do this except that he is loyal to Dumbledore. The whole case for identifying the unknown Horcrux rests with this. If you donít think Snape is loyal to Dumbledore, spare yourself the rest of this post.
There is another reason as Dumbledore explains it. James Potter saved Snape's life when Sirius tricked him into going down the whomping willow. Dumbledore said that when one person saves another person's life, it means that there is a bond between the two people and that the debt should be paid back. When Snape tells voldemort the prophecy, he didnt realize that Voldemort would be killing James. Thus, Snape has lost his chance of repaying his debt. However, he saves Harry with the counter-jinx thinking that it would make Snape and James even.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
3. Since Snape is loyal to Dumbledore and the Vow meant one of them had to die, why did Snape take the Vow?
Because he already knew Dumbledore had to die. Itís the only reasonable explanation. He even said, ďI think he means for me to do it in the end.Ē The word ďheĒ does not refer to Voldemort it refers to Dumbledore himself. Dumbledore means for Snape to do it in the end.
I never thought of it that way. Not a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
16. Can a part of soul be placed in another person?
Yes. This is not certain, but there is evidence. Voldemort possesses Harry in OOPT, and Voldemort lives off of Quirrel in the first book.
Not true. Voldemort did not technically place a Horcrux in Quirrel. As you put it, 'Voldemort lives off of Quirrel'. Note that he merely uses the body and not place any high value to it. Also, when Voldemort returned to his own body in GOF, he stated that Quirrel was a fool, weak and a coward. It is HIGHLY doubtful that Voldemort would use Quirrel's body as a Horcrux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
17. Is there a way Voldemort could have caused Dumbledore to forget the ceremony which made him a Horcrux?
Yes. See Lockhart and memory charms in Chamber of Secrets, and recall that Voldemort is a master of that sort of thing. He is even capable of altering peopleís memory to the point that they will admit to something as horrible as a murder which they did not commit. Dumbledoreís memory has been altered which Harry notices in the Pensieve:

HBP page 446
"For a second, Harry was on the verge of shouting a pointless warning: He was sure that Voldemort's hand had twitched toward his pocket and his wand; but then the moment had passed, Voldemort had turned away, the door was closing, and he was gone."
Very very impressive! JK must have had a higher purpose for stating that Memories could be altered. This might be it. Voldemort might have altered Dumbledore's memory after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skeelos View Post
18. But wait, Dumbledore said the remaining Horcrux was something of Ravenclaw or Gryffindor. How does Dumbledore fit with that?

Harry is not the heir of Gryffindor, but Dumbledore was.
Here is the flaw to the theory. Dumbledore, I believe, is not the heir of Gryffindor. Voldemort regards the line of Slytherin the greatest of all. He would not allow Gryffindor's line to continue any further. He would rather have the line finished with Dumbledore. Voldemort strengthen the line of Gryffindor with his own? Highly doubtful.


  #94  
Old May 17th, 2007, 2:39 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

As others have said, Voldemort did try to kill Dumbledore at the MoM in OotP. He didn't expect Dumbledore to be there, but he tried to kill him even though Dumbledore was only defending himself and Harry rather than attacking Voldemort directly. I think that shoots this theory down. Draco also was nearly successful--it wasn't his lack of skill but his lack of will that kept him from killing Dumbledore. If Voldemort didn't want Dumbledore dead, that was a dangerous gamble.

I think the Mirror of Erised, with its clawed feet, is more likely to be a Ravenclaw relic than James' and Sirius' mirrors. If those are Ravenclaw's, how did a couple of Gryffindors (one from a Slytherin family) get them?

Kov, Slughorn's altered memory was important in HBP. That may have been what Lockhart's Memory Charms foreshadowed.

I agree with efish that, if Dumbledore had been a Horcrux, it would make more sense for him to hang around until the other Horcruxes were gone. His dying this early doesn't help Harry much.

I further think that Dumbledore would have been aware long ago that he was a Horcrux. JKR has not foreshadowed this, and she tends to do that.

I don't see how his injury from the Ring Horcrux would have made him aware that he was a Horcrux himself (although I think he would have already known). Harry got rid of the Diary Horcrux without using any spells; he just destroyed it physically and that destroyed Memory Riddle--note that Memory Riddle at that point did not attempt to enter Harry, Ginny, or anything else. He couldn't. If Harry can do that, surely Dumbledore could. We are told in very general terms how to make a Horcrux: you split your soul through murder and you then (we don't know how soon you have to do this) cast a spell that encases your torn soul piece in something. We have no reason whatsoever to think that Horcruxes can replicate themselves or that soul pieces can, on their own without that spell being cast, invade people or objects.


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Last edited by Shewoman; May 17th, 2007 at 2:44 pm.
  #95  
Old May 17th, 2007, 5:02 pm
skeelos  Undisclosed.gif skeelos is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Thanks for the kind words all. I have to apologize for the length of this post, but there was a lot of catching up to do. I donít remember exactly when or how I came to the idea that Dumbledore was a Horcrux, but it started because I couldnít understand why Dumbledore immobilized Harry at the tower. It didnít make sense. Dumbledore had just taken Harry on a very dangerous mission to get a Horcrux. When they returned to Hogwarts, Dumbledore was suffering from the potion and the school was under attack. The school and Dumbledore needed every available defender possible.

Dumbledore trusted Harryís skill as a wizard enough to take him on the Horcrux mission, and trusted him enough to task him with finding the remaining Horcruxes, and yet, Dumbledore didnít trust Harryís skills at the tower so he immobilized him? That doesnít add up. It was obvious fairly quickly to me that Dumbledore immobilized Harry not to protect Harry, but to protect others from Harry. From there the pieces started falling together and pointed to the same thing, that Dumbledore was a Horcrux.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Scifanac View Post
I'm determined to disporve this theory since it's so outrageous
Good luck with that. Youíve taken on an impossible task. Firstly, all the theories are just that, theories, based on coincidental evidence, and any counter claims are also based only on coincidental evidence. Itís how we weigh the evidence that matters, and there is no absolute proof or disproof. Jails are full of people convicted solely on coincidental evidence. Secondly, itís a daunting challenge to disprove something that is true, determination notwithstanding.

Quote:
I refuse to believe that Dumbledore would let his gaurd down at any time in front of Voldemort, even within his own office.
And that I believe, is your mistake, but of course you are entitled to your opinion no matter how right or wrong it might be. I canít point to the passage directly because I donít have the book handy, but in the Horcruxes chapter of HBP, Dumbledore tells Harry that he believes Riddle didnít have the opportunity to search the school. Thatís a very damaging statement to the idea that Voldemort couldnít take Dumbledore by surprise.

If Dumbledore was wary and suspicious of Riddle, how could Dumbledore not know that Riddle didnít have the opportunity to search the school? Why does he only believe it? It does not make sense for Dumbledore to have been wary of Riddle to the extent that Riddle could not take him by surprise, but then not know exactly what Riddle had done when he arrived at Hogwarts.

On the other hand, if Dumbledore was a Horcrux, it makes perfect sense for two reasons. One is that Dumbledore was not so wary of Riddle, so he didnít keep track of everything Riddle did the whole time of his visit. Secondly, Dumbledore, in hindsight, knows that his memory of Riddleís visit was tampered with, and so he cannot trust his own memories of the visit, and he doesnít know for certain how much searching Riddle was able to accomplish.

Quote:
Dumbledore and Sanpe would have just as easily foiled the death eaters plans to kill Dumbledore and make it seem as though Snape and Malfoy were killedÖ
That wouldnít work because Dumbledore knew all year about Dracoís mission and Dumbledore acted to protect Draco. Dumbledore did not know for certain which way Draco would go in the end. He knew he wasnít a murderer, but would he switch sides? He made his argument to Draco to join the right side, and Draco refused. What then? Kill Draco? Take him captive and hold him against his will? Send him to Azkaban? And defeat the DEís how? Kill them all? No, none of that works at all in my opinion, not within the story for the characters, or out of the story as a storyline.

Quote:
and Dumbledore could continue helping Harry find and destroy the horcruxes, then kill himself when all the others are gone.
That wouldnít work either and would not be in keeping with Dumbledoreís character. He tells Harry only just enough, and itís only afterwards that Harry finds out all the details, and thatís what happened repeatedly in the books.

Also, Dumbledore cares about Harry and has tried to protect him as he explained in OotP. As JKR said, Harry knows more than he realizes. Dumbledore must know that Harry will figure it out. If he was still alive when Harry figures it out, then Harry will have to suffer needlessly knowing that Dumbledore must die, and Harry will act to prevent Dumbledoreís death. Harry would be faced with an impossible choice. Keep Voldemort alive and keep Dumbledore alive, or allow Dumbledore to be killed so that Voldemort could be killed. Dumbledore absolutely never would have put Harry in that position. Either way Dumbledore had to die, but he never would have made Harry suffer like that and he never would have placed a burden of that kind on Harry.

Quote:
I say it's far more likely that Dumbledore would have been able to repel or evade a simple memory charm from Voldemort even with verry little warning, much less a proper horcrux creation spell, which, I imagine, takes significant building up to and time to cast.
So first you say that the biggest problem you have with the theory is that all the evidence is purely coincidental, and then you come out with that? There is no evidence, none whatsoever not even coincidental, that could give anyone even the remotest clue about whatís involved in the actual casting of the Horcrux creation spell or the time it takes, and you offer that to ďdisproveĒ the theory? No doubt we have to do some speculation on any number of topics, but even speculation should have something to back it up.

Quote:
Also, Dumbledore might allow his idealist nature to get in the way of detecting death eaters in his school but he still has a highly intuitive and exstensive knowledge of magic!
Dumbledore was a skillful and powerful wizard, but he was a terrible detective, at least compared to Harry (and Riddle) he was terrible:
Riddle found the CoS within 4 or 5 years of attending school with limited access to the school due to curfew limits and the school being closed during the summers.
Harry found the CoS within a single year of looking for it, again with limited access.
Dumbledore had unlimited access to the school and extensive knowledge of it, and even after 50 years, and even after a student was murdered and the school threatened with closing, he never found the CoS. Even without being a parseltongue, he could have at least identified the entrance in the girlís bathroom, but he never could find it.
If Dumbledore had his memory altered, he would have no way of knowing it unless he was looking for it, and if it was performed by an expert like Voldemort, he might not be able to find it even if he was looking for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkDaysAhead View Post
This also means that Voldemort's wanting him dead makes absolutely no kind of sense whatsoever.
An excellent point and one which I agree with 100%. Voldemort does not want Dumbledore to be dead. What makes you think Voldemort wants Dumbledore dead? If Voldemort really wanted Dumbledore dead, why did he give the job to Draco and give explicit orders to the other DEís that Draco and only Draco could do the job? If Voldemort wanted Dumbledore dead, why were his orders so strict that the DE had to prevent Fenrir from killing Dumbledore, especially when we know that Voldemort expected Draco to fail?

Voldemortís orders to the DEís in the attack on Hogwarts make sense only if Voldemort wants Dumbledore kept alive. For Voldemort to want to keep the only wizard he ever feared alive, there must be a very good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCWM2 View Post
Or maybe he got tired of explaining everything over and over considering everyone is bringing up the same points, .
Heh, yes there is a bit of truth in that, but also Iíve had no free time of late and my Internet connection has been gimpy as well.

Quote:
Honestly I can see where the theory makes sense, some people are just blinded by loyalty to Dumbledore that they refuse to accept it as possible.
Thank you. Whether you believe the theory or not, I think youíve nailed the main reason for most of the objections to the theory. It is I think also a testament to JKRís ability as a writer that people feel that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kov View Post
Not true. Voldemort did not technically place a Horcrux in Quirrel. As you put it, 'Voldemort lives off of Quirrel'. Note that he merely uses the body and not place any high value to it. Also, when Voldemort returned to his own body in GOF, he stated that Quirrel was a fool, weak and a coward. It is HIGHLY doubtful that Voldemort would use Quirrel's body as a Horcrux.
Iím not saying Quirrel was a Horcrux, but the point is that Dumbledore says a soul can be placed in a living thing. Could a soul be placed in a person? Dumbledore doesnít say one way or the other, but I think Quirrel is evidence that it can be. There must have been a reason why Lilyís protection extended to the point of damaging Quirrel himself, not just Voldemort.

Associated with this idea is something that could undermine the theory. If Dumbledore ever touched Harry and Dumbledore did not suffer harm, then it would be evidence that Dumbledore was not a Horcrux. But for one thing, I know of no time that Dumbledore directly touches Harryís skin or vice versa. Itís never a handshake for instance. Itís always on the arm where we can assume Harry or Dumbledore is wearing a cloak or shirt that is between oneís hand and the otherís skin. For another thing, Harry was able to handle the Diary without damaging the Diary.

Quote:
Here is the flaw to the theory. Dumbledore, I believe, is not the heir of Gryffindor. Voldemort regards the line of Slytherin the greatest of all. He would not allow Gryffindor's line to continue any further. He would rather have the line finished with Dumbledore. Voldemort strengthen the line of Gryffindor with his own? Highly doubtful.
This appears to be two separate issues. One is that you donít believe Dumbledore is Gryffindorís heir. I think there is evidence that he is, but letís for a moment say that he is to address the second issue. Voldemort is not strengthening Gryffindorís line by placing a Horcrux in Dumbledore. The Horcrux in Dumbledore wonít extend Dumbledoreís life. The reason Voldemort wants founderís objects for his Horcruxes is because doing so is a symbol of his superiority. Dumbledore as a Horcrux is a symbol both of Slytherinís superiority over the house of Gryffindor, but also as a symbol of Voldmortís superiority as an individual over Dumbledore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
As others have said, Voldemort did try to kill Dumbledore at the MoM in OotP. He didn't expect Dumbledore to be there, but he tried to kill him even though Dumbledore was only defending himself and Harry rather than attacking Voldemort directly.
Voldemort wanted to kill Harry, and once Dumbledore arrived, Voldemort knew he had to kill Dumbledore to get to Harry. Voldemort knows that sooner or later Dumbledore must die and so he eventually will lose that Horcrux. Given the opportunity to kill Harry, he chose to lose the Dumbledore Horcrux, which he must lose at some point anyway. Voldemort was so desperate to kill Harry that he possessed Harry and dared Dumbledore to kill him. He was willing to lose his body again and become Vapormort if it meant Harry would also be dead. To Voldemort, losing a Horcrux that he must lose eventually isnít too much to give up in that situation.

Quote:
I think the Mirror of Erised, with its clawed feet, is more likely to be a Ravenclaw relic than James' and Sirius' mirrors. If those are Ravenclaw's, how did a couple of Gryffindors (one from a Slytherin family) get them?
I donít want to get too far afield on this one, but I donít know how Sirius got the mirrors any more than I know how Smith got the cup and locket. I simply think it fits the story line so well. At some point Iíll try to elaborate on it.

Quote:
I don't see how his injury from the Ring Horcrux would have made him aware that he was a Horcrux himself (although I think he would have already known). Harry got rid of the Diary Horcrux without using any spells; he just destroyed it physically and that destroyed Memory RiddleÖ
I liken it to spraying weed killer in the garden. It kills the weeds, and if it gets on a stone, the stone is not harmed. But if it gets on a flower by accident, the flower is damaged. I think the spell Dumbledore used on the ring was specifically designed to destroy a Horcrux rather than to destroy the object. The ring was damaged, but not destroyed. When he cast the spell, his wand hand was damaged when it should not have been. If thatís what happened, and I think it did, the conclusion would have been obvious to him.


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  #96  
Old May 17th, 2007, 8:21 pm
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

A Horcrux is an object. Destroying the Diary destroyed the soul piece it contained in CoS.

Smith either inherited the Cup or got it at B&B.

Why would Voldemort know that sooner or later Dumbledore must die? If you're talking about general mortality, that would be a strong argument for Voldemort NOT to have made a living being into a Horcrux.


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #97  
Old May 17th, 2007, 9:23 pm
skeelos  Undisclosed.gif skeelos is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shewoman View Post
A Horcrux is an object. Destroying the Diary destroyed the soul piece it contained in CoS.
That is certainly one way of destroying a Horcrux, but it is not necessarily the only way. The ring suffered only a crack, it was not destroyed to even the extent that the diarly was.

Quote:
Smith either inherited the Cup or got it at B&B.
Well, we don't know, and it doesn't really matter I think. She managed to get them, it seems reasonable that founder's ojects could change hands many times over the course of a thousand years, and even be forgotten as founder's objects, which is what I think happened to the two way mirrors.

Quote:
Why would Voldemort know that sooner or later Dumbledore must die? If you're talking about general mortality, that would be a strong argument for Voldemort NOT to have made a living being into a Horcrux.
Yes, simply because he's mortal. I agree it's a reason not to put a Horcrux in a living thing, but he has done so with Nagini. Dumbledore said that Voldemort wants to carve a special place for himself in magical history. Being the only wizard to ever put a Horcrux in another wizard would fit in that regard and it shows his superiority over Dumbledore. Voldemort also had 5 other Horcruxes to rely on, though by the time of the fight at MoM, he was down to 4. Still, he had other Horcruxes, and one is sufficient.


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  #98  
Old May 18th, 2007, 1:55 am
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

Skeelos said: "Dumbledore learned he was a Horcrux from the ďfalloutĒ of destroying the ring Horcrux. The spell he used to destroy the Horcrux in the ring sort of spilled over and damaged his hand. Dumbledore used a spell that would destroy the Horcrux without destroying the ring. The ring suffered damage and so did Dumbledoreís hand. Dumbledore, unaware that he was a Horcrux, had no reason to fear a spell he used to destroy a Horcrux would injure himself. When it did injure him, the conclusion was obvious. All speculation of course, but I believe it to be true."

Me: I have a lot of trouble with this. If Dumbledore had actually destroyed the Horcrux, Voldemort's soul piece would have been destroyed as well (as happened with the Diary). I think the simplest thing would have been to destroy the Horcrux itself, as Harry did, which would have taken care of everything. Why didn't he do that? What spell is it that you imagine he used? If, as you suggest, he used a spell to destroy the soul piece in the Ring and it affected him because he, too, had a piece of Voldemort's soul in him, then isn't he no longer a Horcrux? If his spell destroyed the soul piece in one Horcrux, shouldn't it do the same for both?

And I still don't see why he would have been so careful itemizing the Horcruxes for Harry and leaving himself out. If Harry does have to go on a Horcrux Hunt, he doesn't have accurate data. Dumbledore could have lived, continuing to help Harry, until all the other Horcruxes were gone. He wouldn't have had to upset Harry now by telling him that eventually he (Dumbledore) would have to die. I'd like to point out that the way, in your theory, that Dumbledore chose to deal with the issue did not leave Harry stress-free.

Dumbledore was also concerned about the relationship between Harry and Professor Snape. He knew that Harry had no trust in the Potions Master. Why would he choose to die in such a way that nearly guarantees that Harry won't ever trust Snape again?

Furthermore, why not kill himself when the time came? Why make Snape tear his soul?

It does seem far more likely to me that Harry is a Horcrux.


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WHY DUMBLEDORE TRUSTED SNAPE: PoA 204-5, 285, 361; GoF 588, 590-91; 709-10; OotP 363, 841-3; HBP 549 (American hardbacks). It's not because he said he was remorseful, it's what he did about it.
  #99  
Old May 18th, 2007, 2:30 am
taupimu  Female.gif taupimu is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

I just can't bring myself to believe that Dumbledore was a horcrux. He said that it was unwise to use a living being as a horcrux and I doubt that Voldemort would use some one he wanted dead and someone who wanted him out of power.

I do believe that Voldemort did something while in Dumbledore's office. I'm just not sure what it was.


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  #100  
Old May 18th, 2007, 3:11 am
Alyssa_L  Female.gif Alyssa_L is offline
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Re: Dumbledore Was a Horcrux

This is genius. This has got to be it... what other way could the story end? I would die happily if the Harry Potter series ended this way just because it is such an amazing twist. Everything is accounted for right here. This is definately the best theory I have heard thus far. Hats off to you Skeelos.

Why would Voldemort make a living person a horcrux? To prove he can. He's Voldemort and he's arrogant. He wants to be able to say he is powerful enough to make someone who hates him so much hold his soul/.



Last edited by Alyssa_L; May 18th, 2007 at 3:14 am. Reason: new speculation
 
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