The Room of Requirement One Last Time

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Trismegistus

This assumes that Voldemort had Nagini during the First War.

I might be wrong, but belisto might be assuming (as many people do) that Voldemort is an animagus who can turn into a snake.

However, regardless of the mode, we know that Voldemort could not sneak into Hogwarts. Voldemort would not have resorted to the more complicated scheme of using Malfoy to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts if Voldemort himself could sneak it into the castle, or simply open the Chamber again himself. Also, if Voldemort could have snuck in as a snake, then why did he not assassinate anybody (like, say, Dumbledore) at the school? We have no indication that he did, and people like Dumbledore are quite certain that Hogwarts is safe from Voldemort. This strongly suggests that there were no failed assassination attempts, either!

Originally Posted by Trismegistus

Although Dumbledore says that 'Tom Riddle' explored deeper into the castle's magical secrets more than any other student before or since, that does not necessarily include knowing the layout of the castle and grounds as well as the Marauders, of which Sirius was one. .... Tom Riddle was long gone before the Marauders' generation came and the Womping Willow was planted.

Also, Dumbledore made this statement before he even learned that Sirius and others were animagi or that they had made the Marauder's Map. So, he probably did not know just how much the Marauders had learned!

Originally Posted by inkling7

However we don't know how many secret passages there are to the Chamber of Secrets which we do know that Tom Riddle knew about.

I am pretty sure that the Diary Voldemort says that he found "the" way to get into the Chamber.

Moreover, this would not have helped Voldemort later: if he could have gotten into the Chamber in later years, then he would have just gone there himself, released the Basilisk, and hidden the Diary in the Chamber without including Lucius Malfoy. The fact that someone who works alone was forced to use a middle man tells us that Voldemort had given up on getting into the castle himself.

Originally Posted by inkling7

Another thing which bothers me is that most of you are talking about ONE Room of Requirement when we know from the books that there are many of them...Now - the question is what room did Voldemort REALLY require??????

This is a good point. However, we have to add one more to it: we know that the Room cannot provide just anything. For example, Harry cannot get it to give him the room that Draco is using. People have suggested that Voldemort used it to get the Horcrux spell: but we have no reason to think that the Room could provide something forbidden by the Headmaster (as anything to do with Horcruxes was). We have no reason to think that it can just "invent" things out of thin air: indeed, Harry recognizes some of the objects that he sees as having come from elsewhere in the castle.

What Voldemort would have wanted, of course, was a room that Voldemort and only Voldemort could access. That would be a great hiding place for a Horcrux. Can the room provide that? Who knows. However, given that this would effectively end the plot, I am doubting that we'll see this: unless the bit of Voldemort in Harry's scar lets him access the room, too! (But what would possibly get Harry to request it?)

Of course, all of this is predicated on Voldemort knowing about the room. As there is no evidence that he did, and as we should assume that people do not know about this room until we get evidence to the contrary, we already are on thin ice! (Surely, Voldemort would have thought of some way to use the room to his advantage earlier, had he known about it!)

[inkling7]

Good point about Tom Riddle and his knowledge or ignorance of this room but if he did know about it maybe you have to request access to it in parseltongue like you did the Chamber. Not many people can speak it and only few understand it. Albus was one who understood it but could he speak it I wonder? Maybe if Harry asked for a room in parseltongue it would be interesting to find out what happened.

[sondra]

Great Editorial The room is a good idea it can become anything you need it for. No one could access it , look at Harry trying to get in when Malfoy was using it. I believe Voldemort could come and go from Hogwarts at anytime. He said he searched the school for years. It's probable he know all the secret passageways before he left school . And as for the books in there he was using it like a library, read one book and then put it back. Ha Ha. DD can become invisible I'm sure Voldemort could also. I believe the Chamber of Secrets holds a Horcrux . I posted this after HBP but everone said the chamber was used already. I saw an interview with D Haymen years ago after HPPA he was asked if they where saving the sets he said only the chamber because JK Rowling said it would be used again. I've search for the interview but they only seam to keep the ones from the actors. If anyone remembers this interview please post to let us know.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by inkling7

Good point about Tom Riddle and his knowledge or ignorance of this room but if he did know about it maybe you have to request access to it in parseltongue like you did the Chamber. Not many people can speak it and only few understand it. Albus was one who understood it but could he speak it I wonder? Maybe if Harry asked for a room in parseltongue it would be interesting to find out what happened.

Even that would be a little bit too much like the Jame Bond villain putting James in the elaborate death machine rather than just killing him. That is, why not simply ask for a room that Voldemort alone can breach? There might not be many other Parseltongues, but his uncle is in Azkaban, and there might be others. Voldemort is rarer than are parseltongues: he's flat out unique!

Too many readers would ask why Voldemort did not ask for a room that opened only for him if Rowling used the Parseltongue route. She would have to explain why Voldemort did not do the obvious thing, but there really is no way that she could explain that the Parseltongue route is possible whereas the personal room one is not. Nobody seems to know too much about exactly how the room works: yes, it cannot do anything, but it can do a lot of things. Harry himself would have to learn the theory, because we read only what Harry witnesses.

Originally Posted by sondra

I believe Voldemort could come and go from Hogwarts at anytime. He said he searched the school for years.

His 16 year old memories said that, so it refers to his student days. We know that Voldemort could not come and go from Hogwarts any time: if he could have, then why did he use Lucius Malfoy to sneak the Diary into the School instead of just going in himself, releasing the basilisk and depositing the Diary there? Why did he never attempt to murder Dumbledore there? At the height of his powers, Voldemort could not take over Hogwarts: so clearly he could not get in there himself.

Originally Posted by sondra

I believe the Chamber of Secrets holds a Horcrux . I posted this after HBP but everone said the chamber was used already. I saw an interview with D Haymen years ago after HPPA he was asked if they where saving the sets he said only the chamber because JK Rowling said it would be used again.

You are misremembering what Heyman said, I am quite sure. Heyman said that there were scenes from the Chamber movie that were included only because Rowling said that they would be important later. (Rowling herself also said that she advised Kloves to keep some unstated scenes in Chamber that he had wanted to cut because they would be important later.) This almost certainly refered to Knockturn Alley. As for the sets, they have reused sets from all of the movies: the Defense against Dark Arts set has been the same in each of the last three movies, for example. This came up, because after Chamber, they decided to stop doing that: audiences thought scenes like Knockturn Alley wasted time because they did not contribute to the plot or the story of the movie that they were watching.

(Also, the Chamber itself was not much of a set: that was mostly CGI, I think!)

Again, the Diary would have wound up in the Chamber had Voldemort's plan gone properly. Why would Voldemort want two Horcruxes in the same place? Just one lucky Parseltongue, and one third of his Horcruxes could be destroyed at once!

[inkling7]

Wimsey you said that his uncle is in Azkaban and I read it as Voldemort's uncle. Who is this uncle? I thought Voldemort wa the only one left alive as Morphin (he is the uncle you are referring to isn't he) died didn't he? I may be wrong though and he is still alive.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by inkling7

Wimsey you said that his uncle is in Azkaban and I read it as Voldemort's uncle. Who is this uncle? I thought Voldemort wa the only one left alive as Morphin (he is the uncle you are referring to isn't he) died didn't he? I may be wrong though and he is still alive.

Morfin did die in Azkaban, but years after Voldemort was in school. Dumbledore had tracked Morfin down as part of his research on Voldemort and tried to get Morfin released, so Morfin must have been around when Voldemort began his ascendancy to power.

The real upshot is that this means that by his sixth year (and well before the time Voldemort was trying to hide Horcruxes), Voldemort was aware that he was not the only parselmouth left, as he had flattered himself in his fifth year. Now, are parselmouths rare? Sure. But does someone like Voldemort want to trust his immortality to improbable when he can trust it to impossible? If the Room opens only for Lord Voldemort, then no unfriendly parselmouth can get his Horcrux.

So, given the choice between a room that only Voldemort can access and one that can only be opened by a parselmouth (which includes but might not be limited to Voldemort), Voldemort should choose the former. Otherwise, Rowling has a plot that depends on Voldemort doing something out-of-character in that it is both unintelligent (i.e., an idiot plot) and not paranoid enough, OR one that depends on somehow informing the reader that the Room can do one thing but not another. Of course, either way, Rowling winds up recycling a plot-device from a prior book, which never is a good thing either. (She has recycled plot elements, but always in new ways.)


Of course, this really should be an academic argument. Voldemort had only two items that would become Horcruxes when he left Hogwarts. Voldemort did not have access to Hogwarts afterwards, unless Rowling resorts to more out-of-character backstory for Voldemort. So, it necessarily follows that neither the Cup nor the unknown Ravenclaw/Gryffindor relic are in the Room of Requirement.

[Youdan]

Maybe it is me but I don't see the chamber of secrets in the book's cover art.

[oomboo2]

I've always thought that there was a horcurx hidden in the room of Requirment, or at least that Harry will find some useful items in the piles of banned junk.

[Phil_Stone]

Wimsey- It may be that the answer to why Riddle could not get a room that he alone could access is actually very simple. We are speaking of a room in a school. Would the builder of a room in such a place want to create a place of complete privacy? I wouldn't think so. The room where students hide things they dont want found is no doubt known to the staff besides Trelawny, and the accumulated debris no doubt leaves some doubt in the minds of its users about what might be safely hidden there.

Slytherin probably encouraged his student's predjudices. If his students were inclined to kidnap or even kill those they saw as unfit to be at Hogwarts, giving them a place to dispose of the bodies where they would never be found would be too much temptation for some.

Of course if a horcrux was in such a room as only Voldemort can enter, that would make Harry's horcrux quest problematic. As for Parseltongue as the key, JKR has already had Slytherin use it as the key to the Chamber of Secrets. I think if it is used again, it will be by Slytherin, perhaps to open the Locket. As you say, since Riddle was quite aware of other Parseltongue speakers, he would be less inclined to use it as a key.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

Wimsey- It may be that the answer to why Riddle could not get a room that he alone could access is actually very simple. We are speaking of a room in a school. Would the builder of a room in such a place want to create a place of complete privacy? I wouldn't think so.

Nothing in the canon suggests this, which means that Rowling would have to find some way of informing the readers of this. Indeed, by rights, she should already have done so. Remember, it is NOT our job to come up with excuses: if Rowling does not explain it, then it is a plot-hole. So, how could she have it explained that some rooms can be requested and others cannot? Keep in mind that Rowling has a story to tell: a lot of background narrative for a single plot-point will hinder that!

(Along this lines, why would the person who made the room [if that indeed is the room's origin] want anyone to control it with Parseltongue, given that the language is associated with the Dark Arts by most wizards and witches?)

Also, would Voldemort be so forgiving of such a room? If he could not get a room that responded only to him (and we have no reason to think that it would not: after all, it provides spaces for students to do forbidden things as it is), then he should have decided to not use the room. Voldemort can find other places that he can secure more effectively than that. Otherwise, Rowling would be writing an idiot plot that would demean and diminish Voldemort's character: he is supposed to be brilliant and paranoid, and leaving a Horcrux in a room where anyone could find it would be far from brilliant or paranoid.

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

Of course if a horcrux was in such a room as only Voldemort can enter, that would make Harry's horcrux quest problematic. As for Parseltongue as the key, JKR has already had Slytherin use it as the key to the Chamber of Secrets. I think if it is used again, it will be by Slytherin, perhaps to open the Locket. As you say, since Riddle was quite aware of other Parseltongue speakers, he would be less inclined to use it as a key.

The Locket did not open when the Gaunts were speaking in Parseltongue: given that all eyes were on Merope during part of this scene when Parseltongue was being spoken, and given that the locket already had been mentioned, if it had popped open, then Harry or Dumbledore should have noticed. (Also, there is no reason for the locket to be opened: it needs to be destroyed, and the fact that it does not open might indicate that it has been "de-Horcruxed": a locket that has lost its ornament and that cannot open is broken).

As for the "problematic" part, that is my key point. Rowling had to write a plot that would not have readers thinking "that was really stupid of Voldemort and/or Dumbldore" while at the same time not leaving them thinking "there is no way Harry could have figure out that." The Room simply does not allow for that. If Voldemort could get into Hogwarts to hide the Cup and/or the unknown Horcrux, then Dumbledore is diminished. If Voldemort is willing to hide a Horcrux in a room that anybody can access, then Voldemort is diminished. If Harry can figure out that it was put in Hogwarts when Dumbledore could not, then Dumbledore is diminished and/or Harry looks impossibly brilliant. All of these are very bad options!

If Rowling instead has Voldemort hide the Cup and the unknown Horcrux in two places of personal importance to Voldemort outside of Hogwarts, of which Harry infers by combining what he learns from Dumbledore and R.A.B., then she (probably) will leave far fewer readers thinking that Dumbledore and/or Voldemort acted foolishly, or that Harry got overly lucky.

The final thing to consider is the trajectory of the story. Hogwarts' role in the overarching plot is to provide Harry with the basic tools for the final showdown. At some point, the hero has to step out from behind the safety of his mentors and conquer the antagonist alone with the tools that they gave him. Hogwarts might contribute one or two aids: but Harry has to go forth into the larger world for Hogwarts' role in the plot to be truly fulfilled.

[Phil_Stone]

Wimsey- I think I already agreed with most of what you just said, at least in effect. JKR cannot put a horcrux in a place only Voldemort can access unless there is away around the protection of the site, or around the protection of the horcrux. Both of those, while possible, make her project much harder.

But, since Harry hid the Prince's potion book in the RoR, there is a good chance he will go back there anyway. It might occur to him that the horcrux might be there, and a conversation with Ron and Hermione about it might result. HArry might say it isn't grand enough for Voldemort, but wonder if he might have sought a special room of his own. Hermione might say, "That is easy enough to test," and ask for a room only she could access. If it doesn't work, the possibility is excluded.

You are right it is JKR who must lead the story, but somehow she has to make clear that the RoR could not be a hiding place. The question is what is the most concise way to do it compatible with what ever else she wants to do? Finding the Horcruxes would do the job, but if found too easily, the same problems of diminishing Voldemort and DUmbledore apply. And one way to avoid that would be to have the Trio look somewhere it isn't. Doesn't it diminish Harry to not even think of the RoR?

I disagree to a point about both the locket and Hogwarts. I would not expect random Parseltongue to open the locket. But none of them were trying to open the locket. Forget the Horcrux aspect for a moment. It might just as well have been Slytherin's Amulet as Slytherin's Locket. But it is a Locket, and Lockets usually contain things of importance to their owner. And Voldemort probably knows what is in this one. If one oughtn't introduce a pistol without eventually firing it, ought one introduce a locket and never open it? Whose picture might be in there, and what/who might she look like?

I suspect that there is more to the dispute which broke up the founders than we now know, and it will be relevant to how the school will be more unified in the future. JKR has apparently used the relationships (and adventures) of the contemporary students to suggest what things have been like at Hogwarts for a long time, at least as far back as Harry's parents, and even through Tom RIddle. Why would these parallels not extend back to the early days of the school? They might explain why Slytherin chose to leave when he did, where was Gryfindor's sword before Harry needed it, what special connection Dumbledore has to the school, and perhaps even why Voldemort was apparently williing to spare Lily. I don't imagine that JKR would expect us to extrapolate this far. I expect we will learn something additonal about the Founders in DH. But the Locket is something which could be opened early on.

[sondra]

WIMSEY; I should have said when he was a student and when he worked for Borgins & Berks before Dumbledor became head. He could have placed Ravevclaw's cup then. You may be right that I may not be remembering what D. Hayman said correctly I'm familiar with Rowling and Kloves interview. After thinking about this editoral and reading the posts I would hope DD search the Chamber and if not why not. I like to add Voldmort gave the Diary to Lucius Malfoy for safe keeping, not to be used .

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

But, since Harry hid the Prince's potion book in the RoR, there is a good chance he will go back there anyway. It might occur to him that the horcrux might be there, and a conversation with Ron and Hermione about it might result.

I expect that Harry got the potions books at the end of Prince. Rowling does not bother with small details like that, as we saw during Goblet of Fire. Of course, it could well be that after learning who the author was, Harry wants no part of the book anymore!

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

HArry might say it isn't grand enough for Voldemort, but wonder if he might have sought a special room of his own. Hermione might say, "That is easy enough to test," and ask for a room only she could access. If it doesn't work, the possibility is excluded.

Perhaps. If so, then it probably will be Hermione who will say "Don't you think that Dumbledore would have considered that?" Indeed, she probably ought to do that a couple of times just to have a reminder of Dumbledore.

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

You are right it is JKR who must lead the story, but somehow she has to make clear that the RoR could not be a hiding place.

If Harry finds the two hidden Horcruxes elsewhere, then there will be no question about it. If Rowling takes the time to explain why every fan idea is wrong, then Hallows will be 99% rebuttal!

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

Doesn't it diminish Harry to not even think of the RoR?

Well, I am sure that it will for some readers, but I know that anything that Rowling does will diminish Harry in the eyes of some readers! (We saw that with the last two books.) That being said, Harry knows that Voldemort had no access to Hogwarts after he (Voldemort) acquired the "final four" Horcruxes. Harry knows the lengths to which Voldemort had to go to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts. Harry could eliminate the Room just on that knowledge.

Hmmm: I hope that Rowling does not resort to using Ron to come up with ideas like the RoR replete with some convoluted explanation for how Voldemort might have snuck into the place, and then having Hermione or Harry shoot them down. She does that to poor Ron enough as it is!

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

If one oughtn't introduce a pistol without eventually firing it, ought one introduce a locket and never open it? Whose picture might be in there, and what/who might she look like?

I would say that just making the locket a Horcrux is firing enough. That was all the Ring got.

That being written, Rowling could have it include something like a hint about where Slytherin's Tomb is. Voldemort certainly would hallow that place..... However, then I would ask: why didn't Voldemort remove that from the Locket? He would not want one Horcrux providing any evidence about the location of another. In a sense, that would turn 2 Horcruxes into 1.9 Horcruxes: the safety of numbers is lessened slightly. Really, if there was anything important in the Locket, Voldemort should have taken it out for his own purposes.

Originally Posted by Phil_Stone

I don't imagine that JKR would expect us to extrapolate this far. I expect we will learn something additonal about the Founders in DH. But the Locket is something which could be opened early on.

Also, Rowling herself should not elaborate that far! Remember, this is a story about Harry Potter: she has to stay focused on Harry. If we do learn something about the Founders, then it needs to be something that leads Harry to a Horcrux. This is part of the reason why I expect that a Horcrux will be hidden at Slytherin's tomb or some similar place. This would be of much significance to Voldemort, not just because of the Slytherin connection, but also because Slytherin, like Voldemort, was effectively exiled from Hogwarts.

That being said, Harry will need some clue that Dumbledore did not have that will lead him there. Hmmmm, perhaps there is something to opening the locket after all! Still, why would Voldemort leave something like that there? That is as bad as Dumbledore not paying attention while Voldemort sneaks around Hogwarts.

Originally Posted by sondra

WIMSEY; I should have said when he was a student and when he worked for Borgins & Berks before Dumbledor became head. He could have placed Ravevclaw's cup then.

If so, then we should have had some clue that he returned to Hogwarts. Remember also that Voldemort had little time: he disappeared pretty quickly after he murdered Hepzibah, and then simply disappeared. Moreover, isn't this very inconsistent with the character that Rowling has developed? Both the Cave and the Shack show careful, meticulous planning, with Voldemort choosing out-of-the-way places that would be difficult to find and that did not have people constantly milling about them. The Chamber was a little different, but remember that this Horcrux hiding was more than a Horcrux hiding: it was planting a weapon to overthrow Dumbledore and wreak havoc within Hogwarts.

So, given how we have seen Voldemort operate, it would be very much out-of-character for him to do something so hasty and over which he had so very little personal control. He took his time with the Ring and with the Locket. He hoped to one day return to Hogwarts as a teacher, and his prospects for doing so must have seemed good at the time. (Remember, the then-headmaster thought very highly of Voldemort.) So, why do something so desperate?

Originally Posted by sondra

After thinking about this editoral and reading the posts I would hope DD search the Chamber and if not why not.

Dumbledore might well have done so already: just because we do not see Dumbledore do something it does not mean that he did not do it. He is not a protagonist, after all.

Originally Posted by sondra

I like to add Voldmort gave the Diary to Lucius Malfoy for safe keeping, not to be used .

No! Dumbledore makes it VERY clear in Prince: Voldemort gave Malfoy the Diary so that Malfoy would plant it on a student. That is how Malfoy knew what the Diary would do. Dumbledore is explicit: Malfoy went ahead with the original plan. (Dumlbedore notes that Voldemort works alone, so he would never just give someone a Horcrux for safe-keeping: unless Dumbledore is lying or forgetful, it follows that Dumbledore thought that Voldemort needed Malfoy to sneak the Diary into the school at that point.)

There is (possibly) an extremely important clue in that exchange. Harry asks why Voldemort was so upset at Malfoy when it was Voldemort's plan all along to send the Diary into Hogwarts. Dumbledore notes that when Voldemort did devised the plan (shortly before Godrics Hollow, according to Dumbledore), Voldemort thought that he would be able to make more Horcruxes.

Isn't it interesting that Dumbledore seems to think that Voldemort no longer can do that? That might set a gleam to Dumbledore's eye!

[twiggles]

I have not read HBP in a while so my time lines are a little off. If someone could, please remind whether or not Voldemort met with Dippet before, after or during the time he worked at B&B. If he did have access, I think he would have hidden something at Hogwarts. It was a place that was extremely important to him. Just as Hogwarts is a symbol of a home to Harry, Hogwarts was a sign of Voldemort's greatness and power to him. Any chance that he could have to get something in there, he would.
The theory of the ROR is not that farfetched to me. Though others have stated that it would diminish either Voldemort or Dumbledore to have him hide it in the room, I'm not sure I agree. Even though Voldemort had a specific plan in mind for the diary, it was unlike the intelligent paranoid that many have been talking about to leave an unprotected horocrux with Malfoy. That is not in character for him. We could assume that the hiding places for his earlier horocrux were chosen when he was younger and less thoughtful of their protection but he would not have given this to Malfoy until he was much older.

[Indy_Racer]

This response may not apply to getting back in the ROR, but is more to the speculation on what might be in the locket.

Lockets quite often hold pictures. We've already seen the picture of Mrs. Black permanently stuck on the wall. Perhaps there is a picture permantly attached inside of the locket (if opened) that will help point the Trio in the right direction. The picture might have been placed there before Voldermort acquired it and cannot be removed by him.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by twiggles

I have not read HBP in a while so my time lines are a little off. If someone could, please remind whether or not Voldemort met with Dippet before, after or during the time he worked at B&B.

Voldemort asked Dippet if he could teach before he left Hogwarts. Dippet rejected the request.

There is no indication that Voldemort returned to Hogwarts in the interim. Dumbledore should have commented on that, and collected memories from people who met with him when he visited. Surely some of the staff would have had recollections of this.

Originally Posted by twiggles

If he did have access, I think he would have hidden something at Hogwarts.

The problem with this idea is that Voldemort had only two objects that would become Horcruxes when he left Hogwarts, and neither of them were hidden in the school at that time. One of them, the Diary, later was snuck into the school with the ultimate goal apparently being to have it left in the Chamber.

Also, remember that Voldemort needs more than just to visit, unless he was using the Chamber. That seems implausible because Voldemort would not have sent the Diary to the Chamber if he already had a Horcrux in there. If it was somewhere else, then Voldemort would need to create defenses, traps, etc. This could not be done in a single visit. We have seen how much care Voldemort puts into guarding his Horcruxes with the Cave: why would we expect him to go for a quick and dirty solution at that same time?

Originally Posted by twiggles

The theory of the ROR is not that farfetched to me. Though others have stated that it would diminish either Voldemort or Dumbledore to have him hide it in the room, I'm not sure I agree.

Look at it this way: if Rowling went this route, how often to do you think that you would hear people say "that was really dumb of Dumbledore and/or Voldemort?" Even if all of those people are wrong, Rowling will stand condemned. Readers will assume that she did it just to get Hogwarts back into the story. Rowling needs a plot that the minimum number of people will find contrived.

Originally Posted by twiggles

Even though Voldemort had a specific plan in mind for the diary, it was unlike the intelligent paranoid that many have been talking about to leave an unprotected horocrux with Malfoy. That is not in character for him.

Not entirely, but it shows how desperate Voldemort was to:

1. Sneak a Horcrux into the Chamber;
2. Unseat Dumbledore.

This is what shows the real problem with the idea that Voldemort had access to Hogwarts after he interviewed: if he had, then he would not have had to resort to such a scheme. Voldemort actually had to rely on someone else, even if that someone was completely clueless about what he really as doing.

(Again, remember that Voldemort did NOT leave the Diary with Malfoy for Malfoy to protect: Malfoy was supposed to sneak the Diary into Hogwarts. Dumbledore is absolutely clear about this: Malfoy went ahead with the original plan when he planted the Diary on a student.

So, we can look at this in a couple of different ways. One, Dumbledore was wrong about Voldemort's character. Two, Hogwarts was so inaccessible to Voldemort that he had to resort to using the Diary to get a Horcrux into Hogwarts. Rowling says assume that Dumbledore is right, and #2 necessarily follows from what Dumbledore teaches Harry. So, I'm going with #2!

Originally Posted by twiggles

We could assume that the hiding places for his earlier horocrux were chosen when he was younger and less thoughtful of their protection but he would not have given this to Malfoy until he was much older.

We have seen two hiding places for early Horcruxes: the Cave and the Shack. Neither were anything other than thoughtful, as both almost killed Dumbldore.

Originally Posted by Indy_Racer

Perhaps there is a picture permantly attached inside of the locket (if opened) that will help point the Trio in the right direction. The picture might have been placed there before Voldermort acquired it and cannot be removed by him.

In that case, Voldemort should not use the place to which the locket points. Again, that would be a bit of a plothole: if Voldemort knows that one of the Horcruxes would provide a clue to another place that he might want to hide something, then he should get another hiding place.

Keep in mind that people have hypothesized (with good reason) more places outside of Hogwarts that should be important to Voldemort than he has Horcruxes to hide. Moreover, we have not learned all that we will about Voldemort. So, given that Voldemort has multiple choices, why take one that has some clue pointing to it?

[inkling7]

The thing about Malfoy and the diary is the question of when Voldemort gave him the diary and why did Malfoy decide to use it after he thought that Voldemort was gone for good? When did Malfoy get the instructions to smuggle the diary into Hogwarts? Did Draco tell his father that Voldemort was hiding in Quirrell's head or what? Why hadn't Riddle hidden the diary in ROR before he left Hogwarts as he doesn't seem to have used it as an adult and if he'd hidden it before he left school he might have been able to manipulate the finding of it as Tom Riddle.
Sorry for the rambling - I've had the flu for over a week now and stll am muzzy-headed so if that didn't make sense ignore it.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by inkling7

When did Malfoy get the instructions to smuggle the diary into Hogwarts? Did Draco tell his father that Voldemort was hiding in Quirrell's head or what?

Voldemort almost certainly gave the instructions before Godric's Hollow. Dumbledore states that Voldemort told Malfoy that the Diary was cleverly enchanted to possess a student and open the Chamber.

However, Dumbledore notes that this was shortly before Voldemort disappeared. As Malfoy assumed Voldemort to be dead, Malfoy obvoiusly

Originally Posted by inkling7

Why hadn't Riddle hidden the diary in ROR before he left Hogwarts as he doesn't seem to have used it as an adult and if he'd hidden it before he left school he might have been able to manipulate the finding of it as Tom Riddle.

For one thing, the Diary was not a Horcrux initially. Dumbledore emphasizes this when Harry asks why Voldemort turned the Diary into a Horcrux when it was not a Founder's Relic. Dumbledore did not say that it had always been a Horcrux or that it was made before Voldemort hit upon the idea of using Founder's Relics. Instead, Dumbledore emphasized that it emphasized Voldemort's link to Slytherin: a "post hoc" explanation. Dumbledore also emphasizes that the Diary was simply a weird Horcrux: it was designed as a weapon and was used as a weapon. It was the fact that Voldemort chose to design and implement such an odd Horcrux that led Dumbledore to make the huge intellectual leap of infering that there was at least one more Horcrux.

If we look at the timeline, Voldemort likely did not turn the Diary into a Horcrux until fairly late. When Voldemort kills Hepzibah, he has only a trace of Horcrux damage (flashing red eyes) and the Ring is gone. When he visits Dumbledore 10 years later, he now has the Locket and the Cup, and his physical tranformation is about halfway towards "Voldemort classic." This suggests that he has another 2-3 to go. Also, this is the time where Voldemort now realizes that he is not getting back into Hogwarts quickly: he had honestly hoped to be allowed back in as a teacher. So, it would have been at this time that he realized that he needed careful planning to insert himself back into Hogwarts. It might simply have taken time to devise the Diary scheme, as well as additional experience with Horcruxes to fully grasp the theory behind what to expect when you put a piece of soul in with a bunch of memories.

[SusanBones]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

If we look at the timeline, Voldemort likely did not turn the Diary into a Horcrux until fairly late. When Voldemort kills Hepzibah, he has only a trace of Horcrux damage (flashing red eyes) and the Ring is gone. When he visits Dumbledore 10 years later, he now has the Locket and the Cup, and his physical tranformation is about halfway towards "Voldemort classic." This suggests that he has another 2-3 to go. Also, this is the time where Voldemort now realizes that he is not getting back into Hogwarts quickly: he had honestly hoped to be allowed back in as a teacher. So, it would have been at this time that he realized that he needed careful planning to insert himself back into Hogwarts. It might simply have taken time to devise the Diary scheme, as well as additional experience with Horcruxes to fully grasp the theory behind what to expect when you put a piece of soul in with a bunch of memories.

I agree that this would be the most logical time to implement a plan to sneak the diary into Hogwarts.

We have these facts as defined by Dumbledore:
1. Voldemort didn't trust anybody
2. Voldemort would have chosen objects which meant something to him
3. Voldemort would have been foolish to put more than one horcrux in the same location
4. Voldemort had no way of getting into Hogwarts once he had established himself as a threat, meaning forming Death Eaters, etc.

Voldemort took a chance of losing the horcrux by giving it to Malfoy. Voldemort also knew that Parseltongue was a rare ability and getting into the Chamber required parseltongue. He probably felt pretty confident that his diary could do exactly what he wanted it to do. He just didn't know that a kid named Harry Potter would foil his evil plot.

So, to bring this back around to the topic, Voldemort already planned to have a diary horcrux in Hogwarts. He would not have put a second one in the Room of Requirement.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by SusanBones111

So, to bring this back around to the topic, Voldemort already planned to have a diary horcrux in Hogwarts. He would not have put a second one in the Room of Requirement.

Well done! Yes, Harry Potter actually requires a fair few lemmas (i.e., proofs within a proof), doesn't it? That is part of the appeal!

And SusanBones111 brings us back promptly to the point of the "digression." The idea that there is a Horcrux in the Room of Requirement works only if Voldemort had ample access to the room while he had the Horcrux in question. However, the only two items that Voldemort had prior to leaving school were not hidden there. Afterwards, Voldemort had such restricted access to Hogwarts that he was forced to resort to the Diary Plot to get something into Hogwarts.

This leaves the Room of Requirement a very unlikely place for Voldemort to have put a Horcrux. Even if it did fit his style, then he simply did not have access to it after he acquire the Cup or the Ravenclaw/Gryffindor item.

We should also remember that the Room of Requirement has been important to two consecutive plots. It might be better to retire that particular plot element at this point. Rowling has a healthy imagination: let's see something new!