The Room of Requirement One Last Time

[inkling7]

I often wonder how he found out about the whereabouts of the Chamber and I wonder if he found out about the RoR as many students seem to know about it and got into the room and found something which pointed him in the direction of the entrance to the Chamber - something Slytherin left behind giving him a hint - or two......

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by inkling7

I often wonder how he found out about the whereabouts of the Chamber and I wonder if he found out about the RoR as many students seem to know about it

Actually, very few students seem to know about it. Fred & George did not know about it, for example: they thought that it was a place to hide from Filch and never paid it much mind. There is no indication that the Marauders learned of it. It becomes well known in Harry's time because of the DA, but it does not seem like any of the DA students knew about it save F&G thinking that it was a convenient hiding place.

Indeed, it would take a bit of luck for a student to realize what the room was: the few who found it would think that it was for the one need that they had at that time. They would need to accidentally spring it for something completely new to have a chance to work out what it was.

Originally Posted by inkling7

and got into the room and found something which pointed him in the direction of the entrance to the Chamber - something Slytherin left behind giving him a hint - or two......

This is possible, but I think that a simpler explanation is that he hit on the idea of using parseltongue as the key. That is what opened the tap. It is possible that he read somewhere that Slytherin used this ploy: Voldemort was obsessed with the history of the founders and with Slytherin especially, after all.

Also, Voldemort probably rapidly realized that the Chamber would have to be underground. Therefore, he would have been looking for things connected to the bowels of Hogwarts. Bathrooms, with their pipes, would have been a very sensible place to look. The 7th floor would not have been!

[inkling7]

I think if Jo was to write another book connected to this series it should be Hogwarts a History. That would answer a lot of questions and would make very interesting reading.

Funny - I was under the impression quite a few people knew about the RoR as nobody seemed surprised it exists. How did those who used it find out about it in the first place?

[Wazlib]

I think those who knew about it found it by coinsidence.
Everyone need somewhere to hide/do something, and suddenly, there's the room.. So I think only a few people really know that it's there, and those who have been there once by coinsidence might not find it again, either (they go back, but now there's no door). Therefore, just a few people know about the RoR purpose, and how to find it! Surely, the entire DA know about it, though..

[HerbProfNeville]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Actually, very few students seem to know about it. Fred & George did not know about it, for example: they thought that it was a place to hide from Filch and never paid it much mind. There is no indication that the Marauders learned of it. It becomes well known in Harry's time because of the DA, but it does not seem like any of the DA students knew about it save F&G thinking that it was a convenient hiding place.

Harry found out from Dobby and passed it on to a bunch of people, but the Weasley twins prove it can be found without prior knowledge. I don't know that riddle was looking for more mischief than the twins, but he was looking for secrets and traces of magic - and he was extremely clever. Seems he may have worked it out for himself where others failed. Plus many faculty members knew about it. Dumbledore mentioned it as the chamber pot room and Trelawney uses it regularly. If Riddle is a star pupil charming his way into the hearts of his teachers, and has Slughorn guessing where he gets his info about business at the school, it's possible he heard about the room from one of them. I think Dumbledore's reference was more a hint than a random musing about the undiscovered secrets of the school myself.

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Also, Voldemort probably rapidly realized that the Chamber would have to be underground. Therefore, he would have been looking for things connected to the bowels of Hogwarts. Bathrooms, with their pipes, would have been a very sensible place to look. The 7th floor would not have been!

The entrance is in a girl's bathroom on the second floor - hardly underground. And the catacombs hiding the stone in book one were accessed from the 3rd floor. If they're accessing tunnels beneath the school from that high up, doesn't seem too far a stretch that there could be one from the 7th.

Besides, he was looking for more than just the Chamber while at Hogwarts. Dumbledore speculated he'd like to come back to search for more secrets and stores of untapped magic. It took him most of his student career to find the Chamber - and to do that he resorted to searching a ladies room. You really think he wouldn't have exausted all other possible points of entry that being caught in wouldn't tarnish his glowing reputation as the perfect prefect?

[inkling7]

That's true. I think for Tom to find the entrance in the Girls toilets on the second floor when there are probably toilets for both girls and boys on each floor would have meant he was really searching Hogwarts pretty thoroughly. What I'm getting at is that the girls toilets on the second floor being used as the entrance to the Chamber seem to me to be quite and unlikely place and surely Tom wouldn't have thought of this place as his first choice. There would have been many other locations that would have been just as likely as entrances to the Chamber - UNLESS he found out something from some other source which pointed him in the right direction.

All in all I think Tom would have found out about the RoR during his exploration of Hogwarts and it is possible he found out more information than the location of the Chamber there too.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by HerbProfNeville

Harry found out from Dobby and passed it on to a bunch of people, but the Weasley twins prove it can be found without prior knowledge.

True. My point was that even though they had found the Room, they had no idea what it was. Finding the room is one (improbable) thing: working out what it does is another altogether!

Originally Posted by HerbProfNeville

I don't know that riddle was looking for more mischief than the twins, but he was looking for secrets and traces of magic - and he was extremely clever.

Originally Posted by HerbProfNeville

Plus many faculty members knew about it.

All of this is possible. However, it is using a bunch of "maybes": there still is no evidence that Voldemort knew about the room. Now, is the statement that Voldemort might have known about the room true? Sure: but that "might" is pretty small.

Originally Posted by HerbProfNeville

The entrance is in a girl's bathroom on the second floor - hardly underground.

Not underground, but near ground. Moreover, it fit the second criterion quite well: it had things (pipes) connected to the undergraound.

Originally Posted by HerbProfNeville

You really think he wouldn't have exausted all other possible points of entry that being caught in wouldn't tarnish his glowing reputation as the perfect prefect?

Well, remember, Dumbledore did keep an annoyingly close eye on Voldemort after the Chamber. So, yes, Voldemort was limited.

Incidentally, I was listening to the "Voldemort's Requests" chapter yesterday. When Voldemort got to Dumbledore's office, Voldemort still had snow on his cloak. This indicates that he did not waste much time between getting into the castle and getting to Dumbledore, which really hurts the idea that he went to the Room straight away. Given that Dumbledore tacitly reminds Voldemort that he is being watched and that Dumbledore explicitly tells Voldemort that he does not trust Voldemort, it seems unlikely that Voldemort went there afterwards, either.

Originally Posted by inkling7

All in all I think Tom would have found out about the RoR during his exploration of Hogwarts and it is possible he found out more information than the location of the Chamber there too.

I still consider it improbable given that he was searching for the Chamber, and that the Room of Requirement is simply not anyplace someone looking for the Chamber would be. The time Voldemort had to spend searching for the Chamber decreases the probabilty that he found the RoR, not the other way around!

[inkling7]

But how did he know there was a Chamber in the first place? Was this a myth/rumour that had been going around for years or was it written up in Hogwarts A History? Did Professor Binns talk about it in his Histroy of Magic classes? Did he read about it in the restricted section of the library at Hogwarts or what?

I think that while looking for the Chamber he was more likely to stumble across the RoR.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by inkling7

But how did he know there was a Chamber in the first place? Was this a myth/rumour that had been going around for years or was it written up in Hogwarts A History? Did Professor Binns talk about it in his Histroy of Magic classes? Did he read about it in the restricted section of the library at Hogwarts or what?

This is a good question. My guess is that Voldemort heard about it either when learning about Slytherin

Originally Posted by inkling7

I think that while looking for the Chamber he was more likely to stumble across the RoR.

Well, let's never mind this part: we clearly take opposite views! Instead, let us look at Rowling's style. She always leaves clues to things that would be important. However, when Voldemort tells Harry about finding the Chamber, he says absolutely nothing that hints to the Room of Requirement being important to finding the Chamber. Rowling would have done this: because that would have allowed Harry to later get the brainwave and realize that the Diary Voldemort had provided him with a clue about another place important to him.

So, Rowling had her chance to provide Harry with information that might seem so innocuous (or even incomprehensible to a 12 year old) that one would understand why Harry did not mention it to Dumbledore. So, Harry would have clue that Dumbledore never did have, and we thus could get an explanation once Harry figured it out: the 17 year old Harry would simply tell Ron & Hermione that he didn't think that he mentioned that part to Dumbledore because it did not seem important and it slipped his mind with all of the other events (e.g., getting bitten by a whomping big snake, etc.)

However, Rowling did not do this. Throughout the series, Rowling's resolutions always explain things that we read, not things that might have happened. She is very deliberate abou this (even if she is also very clever at making things unobvious). Well, she had a great chance to slip in an unobvious detail here: but she did not do it. Instead, it is all "maybe." Rowling has never used a "maybe" yet: I would be very disappointed if she did now!

[Youdan]

Voldermort searching for the chamber? While was he spent most of the time looking for signs of who his parents were. I mean it took him till his 5th 0r 6th year to find the chamber as he was a perfect. I think it more likely that he would be trying to hide things taken from other students (bulling trophies) when found the room of requriement. More then likely in his first year. Found the room in the same shape as Harry did when trying to hide his potions book.
Not knowing who his parents were. Not knowing he was heir or had any Slythein blood in him till he knew who were his parents and whos side were magical. Where he came from, his history of who he was.
Most that did know Tom and were willing to talk about him of his years at school said he was obsess with finding out his magical linage. So the myth of the chamber that only a heir could open it wouldn't have occour to him, till he found out who he was.
Opening of the chamber and wanting to stay the summer and the deaths of the Riddles all seem to happen the same year already calling himself Lord Vordermort to his gang But he was already a very talented student. I would say he knew far to much for his own good and not just learned from the school libary but from a secret libary we know as the room of requirement. That is where he found out about who he was, the chamber and horcux spell and who knows what other dark spells or strong magical objects he found in his secret libary. His wanting to stay as a teacher after his 7th year and wanting to come back to the school. Something powerfull keeps drawing him back to the school as there are many more secrets to be discovered. What and where were the secrets he discovered already.
Where would the first place Lord Voldermort would go, to discover more of the hidden dark secrets and hidden powerfull magical objects in Hogwarts?

[inkling7]

That is a possibility as weren't there a lot of old books there? Yes god knows what evil stuff he found out about there. Maybe Harry will find the same stuff along with antidotes for some of it. Here will need Hermione's help for the antidotes.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Youdan

Voldermort searching for the chamber? While was he spent most of the time looking for signs of who his parents were.

Actually, Hogwarts, a History mentions the Chamber. The simplest explanation is that Voldemort learned of it there.

Originally Posted by Youdan

I mean it took him till his 5th 0r 6th year to find the chamber as he was a perfect. I think it more likely that he would be trying to hide things taken from other students (bulling trophies) when found the room of requriement.

Voldemort had been busted already by Dumbledore, and Dumbledore warned Voldemort that thieving would not be tolerated at Hogwarts. At any rate, Voldemort had a better place to hide things from Dumbledore: Dumbledore would not have had access to the Sltyerhin chambers!

Originally Posted by Youdan

I would say he knew far to much for his own good and not just learned from the school libary but from a secret libary we know as the room of requirement.

There is no evidence of a "secret library" in the Room of Requirement! Remember, Harry recognizes some of the things in that room as having come from elsewhere in the building. We have no reason to think that this was not the case with the DADA books.

Originally Posted by Youdan

Where would the first place Lord Voldermort would go, to discover more of the hidden dark secrets and hidden powerfull magical objects in Hogwarts?

But there is no evidence that Voldemort knows about it. Surely Rowling would have provided some if this were to be the case.

Originally Posted by inkling7

That is a possibility as weren't there a lot of old books there? Yes god knows what evil stuff he found out about there. Maybe Harry will find the same stuff along with antidotes for some of it. Here will need Hermione's help for the antidotes.

As there is the no evidence that Voldemort ever learned of the place, there most likely answer is "no evil stuff at all!" Indeed, if the room could provide all sorts of evil things, then why did not Draco (who clearly understood what the Room could do) use the room to get such things instead of resorting to having mead and a necklace snuck into the school? This suggests that the Room could provide these sorts of things. Prince showed us that the Room is not infinitely malleable!

Indeed, if Voldemort knew about the RoR, then why did he not tell Lucius about it at some point? Lucius would have told Draco, yet Draco discovered the room because of Harry.

Rowling has used the room as a plot-device in two straight novels. She has provided no indication that this room is at all important to Voldemort or that Voldemort had any knowledge of it. The only two objects that became Horcruxes while Voldemort had access to the room (about which, insofar as we can see, he did not even know) are destroyed and were not hidden there. So, unless she is deviating seriously from her plotting style (including by having Dumbledore be very wrong about many things), she would have done so if it was to be so important.

[Youdan]

Tom Riddle Jr was a very secretive and like to bully people and took things as bullying trophies are you suggesting his personally changed because of Dumbledore. As he could charm those around him. . But even Dumblerdore couldn't keep an eye on him all the time. after the chamber was open didn't Dumbledore keep an extra eye on him? Therefore Tom wanted to stay over the summer free range of the school. but there was a killer lose in the school. As we don't know if he stayed or not that summer? After the a suspect was found and convicted on Tom's knowledge.
Where could he learn and practice the dark arts? Like where the DA learned and practiced. As Tom new so many of the dark arts that were not taught at the school where did he learn and parctice all those dark spells? That he could kill the Riddles and use of a memory charm on his uncle. How did the get to his Grandfathers place that summer so many unanswer questions. by 16.
But I still believe that Tom would have found the room and the thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen .(pge 492) and mountains of other forbidden items There is no sign that he stopped or changed his character of bullying and thieving he just hide it better being very secretive and could be very charming when he needed to be.
Couldn't prove it all that happened when Tom was at school. But Dumbledore was suspicious of him. He did gather a gang around him. Much like Duddly's. And like Duddly's second bed room the room of requirement is a dumping ground for discarded items. but we do know that the room contained stacks of banned books. A treasure-trove of learning to someone that inclined.

[inkling7]

Actually given the suspicions Albus had about Tom Riddle right from the start (the ophanage when Tom was 10-11) then I'm a little bit disappointed that he hadn't cottoned onto to the fact that Tom was't quite the 'good' student he was meant to be. This I think wa one of the great mistakes Albus made in the firsrt place even if he doesn't make them often..........

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Youdan

Tom Riddle Jr was a very secretive and like to bully people and took things as bullying trophies are you suggesting his personally changed because of Dumbledore.

Yes, Voldemort knew that Dumbledore was watching him, and he also wanted to impress the other teachers. So, Voldemort clearly modified his behavior: none of the teachers held him in the disdain that Ms. Cole did.

Originally Posted by Youdan

As Tom new so many of the dark arts that were not taught at the school where did he learn and parctice all those dark spells? That he could kill the Riddles and use of a memory charm on his uncle. How did the get to his Grandfathers place that summer so many unanswer questions. by 16.

Snape knew many curses before he even came to school. Voldemort was surrounded by many young wizards and witches from old families. That is an obvious source for him to learn things.

Originally Posted by Youdan

But I still believe that Tom would have found the room and the thousands and thousands of books, no doubt banned or graffitied or stolen .(pge 492) and mountains of other forbidden items

But that is, as you state, just a belief. There is no evidence for it. Rowling provides no clues at all that Voldemort ever found the room. Rowling always leaves clues.

Originally Posted by Youdan

but we do know that the room contained stacks of banned books. A treasure-trove of learning to someone that inclined.

Actually, we do not know that: Harry surmised that the books must have been graffitied or banned: he did not actually look at them to learn what they were. At any rate, Rowling has provided no evidence that Voldemort got any information from this room, and that just is not her style.

Originally Posted by inkling7

Actually given the suspicions Albus had about Tom Riddle right from the start (the ophanage when Tom was 10-11) then I'm a little bit disappointed that he hadn't cottoned onto to the fact that Tom was't quite the 'good' student he was meant to be. This I think wa one of the great mistakes Albus made in the firsrt place even if he doesn't make them often..........

Yes and no. Dumbledore resolved to give Voldemort a chance. Voldemort did not do anything overt: there were no reports of him bullying or stealing, or acting like he had done at the orphanage. Voldemort was too clever and subtle to make those mistakes again.

Still, Dumbledore never truly trusted Voldemort, and he did suspect that Voldemort was responsible for things like the opening of the Chamber of Secrets. There just was not sufficient hard evidence to "convict," it seems.

If nothing else, then it is clear that Dumbledore never had any evidence that the Room was important to Voldemort.

[sfgilgalad]

i like the Dudley's room/RoR thing they do sound connected, actually. In Dudley's room, there are all his goods he used to make bad or silly things.

[Youdan]

Originally Posted by Wimsey

Yes, Voldemort knew that Dumbledore was watching him, and he also wanted to impress the other teachers. So, Voldemort clearly modified his behavior: none of the teachers held him in the disdain that Ms. Cole did.

yes modified but did not change his behavior of bullying and theiving. charmed his teaches there were rumors but nothing proven.. Even Dunbledore didn't know who really open the chamber till Harry found out.
keeping an eye out is not constantly watching him.

Snape knew many curses before he even came to school. Voldemort was surrounded by many young wizards and witches from old families. That is an obvious source for him to learn things.

but Tom didn't have the background he was raised in the muggle world. So how could he impess other to join him. teach them new ways. To keep the type of people he gather around him. He was the leader of the his gang not a hanger on picking up thing from other people.

But that is, as you state, just a belief. There is no evidence for it. Rowling provides no clues at all that Voldemort ever found the room. Rowling always leaves clues.

As with many theroies.. and where is the evidence that Voldermort was good and changed his charter because Dumbledore was watching him he still managed to opened the chamber and killed a few people at 16. and gather a gang the pre-runner of the Death eathers. But is was said that Voldermort did discover many more secrets of Hogwarts then any other student. And if Harry is marked as a equal then we might surmise then what Harry discovers Tom/ Voldermort has already discovered.

Actually, we do not know that: Harry surmised that the books must have been graffitied or banned: he did not actually look at them to learn what they were. At any rate, Rowling has provided no evidence that Voldemort got any information from this room, and that just is not her style.

Then where did he get all the information and learned and practice all those dark spells that even the death Eater didn't know as Tom was very secretive and didn't like to share. or have very close friends just followers to be given orders to. where else in the books could Tom have learn those things? not the chamber it self because where did he learn how to open it where to look and knowing so much of the dark arts and banned knowledge. Not in the school libary or from his followers. This was his power not to be shared. So the only place that we do know about that has thousand of books beside the school libary is. and a place to practice those skills out of sight and knowledge of others is.
don't forget that the room was first mention at christmass dinner passing dinner conversation.. big clue little mention in more then one book. a few lines.. clue thousands of banned book and mountain of other forbidden junk.

Yes and no. Dumbledore resolved to give Voldemort a chance. Voldemort did not do anything overt: there were no reports of him bullying or stealing, or acting like he had done at the orphanage. Voldemort was too clever and subtle to make those mistakes again.

Still, Dumbledore never truly trusted Voldemort, and he did suspect that Voldemort was responsible for things like the opening of the Chamber of Secrets. There just was not sufficient hard evidence to "convict," it seems.

If nothing else, then it is clear that Dumbledore never had any evidence that the Room was important to Voldemort.

Nor did anybody else know what Tom did while at school. Tom did use his considerable charm on the other teachers. Most felt sorry and though highly of the talented good looking orphan. but there were rumors of thing going on in the school while Tom was there. He did gather a gang of faithfull followers.
Most did not know what Tom was up to. He did manage too pass the blame of the chamber on to someone else.
So we realy don't know what Tom did at school. Just the rumors of the things that couldn't be proven. But I don't think he changed his personally just modified and nothing overt but I believe he still keeped doing those thing of bullying and theiving and sneeking around the school on his own.
Voldermort is to much like Duddy able to con his parents/teaches into believing what he wants them to believe. while he dose his own things.

[Indy_Racer]

I agree that Rowling hasn't dropped any obvious clues that Riddle/Voldermort knew of the ROR. However, I would like to believe that he did.

We haven't been given any insight (yet) where Riddle praticed his dark arts while still in school. We know that Snape is a half-blood so it is possible that he had access to the magical world before he came to Hogwarts. However, Riddle didn't. But Riddle was charming, so we can guess that he could have gotten permission from a teacher to get a book out of the restricted section. We've already seen Hermione do this with Lockhart.

So based on what has been written Rowling has given us 3 ways a student can get books out of the library. 1) Normal books can be checked out. 2) Restricted books need a teacher's permission. 3) The ROR can provide the books for you.

We still have the question of where do you learn/practice the Avada Kedavra spell when you aren't a qualfied wizard. Fake Moody tells DADA class that even if the whole class tried to AK him, they would barely hurt him. Riddle/Voldemort certainly enjoys cruelty, so maybe AK was as easy for him as flying on a broom is for Harry. Maybe the answer is as simple as the Chamber of Secrets. We've already seen a lot of rodent bones in the chamber. We might assume the Basilisk was eating the rats, but it is possible that Riddle was practicing on them.

Still, I like the idea of ROR holding 1 more secret that will be helpful to Harry.

[Wimsey]

Originally Posted by Youdan

yes modified but did not change his behavior of bullying and theiving.

Again, Dumbledore says otherwise, and he kept an ear and eye out for such things in the young Voldemort.

Originally Posted by Youdan

keeping an eye out is not constantly watching him.

No, but constant surveillance is not necessary. If Dumbledore kept an eye on Voldemort, then that should have been adequate. Remember, an act of theft or bullying is not an instantaneous one: reports of the theft and bullying get out. Thus, ccasional surveillance is all that is needed to identify theft and bullying. However, nothing that could really be traced back to Voldemort really happened. Voldemort is a very subtle individual, and thievery & bullying are not subtle behaviors.

Originally Posted by Youdan

but Tom didn't have the background he was raised in the muggle world. So how could he impess other to join him. teach them new ways.

Alternatively, Voldemort could wow them with his incredible native talent and other things such as his ability to speak parseltongue. Voldemort did not walk in as an 11-year old and start teaching; he did, according to Dumbledore, walk in and start wowing everyone.

Originally Posted by Youdan

As with many theroies.. and where is the evidence that Voldermort was good and changed his charter because Dumbledore was watching him he still managed to opened the chamber and killed a few people at 16.

I'm not sure what you mean. Voldemort never was "good" (insofar as that word means anything). He was, however, extremely intelligent. He knew that he needed to charm, and charm he did. This means that he could not be overt in his bullying.

As for opening the Chamber, that was a solitary task. Bullying and stealing would have involved other students. Thus, it would have been much more difficult for Voldemort to do this. It also would have been foolish: Voldemort was trying (very succesfully) to dupe the teachers into thinking that he was the model citizen.

Originally Posted by Youdan

if Harry is marked as a equal then we might surmise then what Harry discovers Tom/ Voldermort has already discovered.

How does that follow? Just because two individuals are "equal" in some way, we by no means expect their life histories to be all that similar. Harry only discovered it because he was friends with a house-elf: i.e., pure luck. The Marauders were very good at finding out secrets, too, but they never found it: after all, Sirius does not recommend the room when Harry is looking for a place to hold the DA meetings, which Sirius would have done had he known about it.

Originally Posted by Youdan

Then where did he get all the information and learned and practice all those dark spells that even the death Eater didn't know as Tom was very secretive and didn't like to share.

We have no reason to think that Voldemort knew all of this as a student. He continued his "research" long after he left Hogwarts. It seems that you are assuming that Voldemort was as formidable at the dark arts as a student as he was as a youngster. However, this is almost certainly untrue.

As for learning the Dark Arts, again, keep in mind that this was an "extra curricular" set of topics from the start, but also one that was apparently common within the old wizarding families. Slughorn himself notes this in Prince. Given how impressive the young Voldemort was why wouldn't the Notts, Avery's etc. teach Voldemort the spells that they had learned? Given Voldemort's impressive grasp on magical theory, he would have had very easy times learning such spells.

Originally Posted by Youdan

don't forget that the room was first mention at christmass dinner passing dinner conversation.. big clue little mention in more then one book. a few lines.. clue thousands of banned book and mountain of other forbidden junk.

None of these are clues that Voldemort knew about the Room. A proper clue would be some evidence linking Voldemort to the Room: not a "he could have..." or "maybe he..." but some line of direct evidence such as Dumbledore offers concerning himself, or something seen in the room that reflected Voldemort.

Originally Posted by Youdan

Nor did anybody else know what Tom did while at school. Tom did use his considerable charm on the other teachers. Most felt sorry and though highly of the talented good looking orphan. but there were rumors of thing going on in the school while Tom was there.

Which also means that he could not have continued thieving; that would have drawn much anger from the Slytherin students in particular, and had he stolen from students in other houses, then word of the thefts would have reached Dumbledore's ears. As Dumbledore was alert to this behavior in Voldemort, and as Voldemort knew it, this mean that Voldemort would know better than to do it.

Originally Posted by Youdan

Voldermort is to much like Duddy able to con his parents/teaches into believing what he wants them to believe. while he dose his own things.

Actually, Voldemort is very unlike Dudley. Dudley is a spoiled brat who is smothered in selfish love by his parents. Dudley has no subtlety, but selfish though he is, he does genuinely care for his family. Dudley also is utterly reliant: he is the sort that will always expect someone to provide him with what he wants or to excuse his misdeeds.

Voldemort was never loved in any sense, and never spoiled at all. Voldemort is extremely subtle and devious. Voldemort is totally self-reliant, and far from expecting people to excuse his misdeeds, he (if anything) is paranoid, thinking that everyone is thinking about him at all times. Because Voldemort is completely incapable of empathizing with anyone, he also assumes that the attention that he receives is hostile: greatness breeds envy breeds spite and lies. So, opposite of expecting favors, Voldemort thinks that the world is out to get him.

It is Draco where the parallels with Dudley lie. Indeed, Draco seems even to have expected favored status from Voldemort: learning that being a Malfoy means little more than being just another servant is surely a major eye-opener for Draco.

However, this is all getting off topic from whether the Room of Requirement houses a Horcrux! Again, my statement stands: there is no evidence that Voldemort knew about the Room of Requirement, even though Rowling has had opportunity to present it. Yes, Voldemort would have liked to have known, but who wouldn't?

Originally Posted by Indy_Racer

We haven't been given any insight (yet) where Riddle praticed his dark arts while still in school.

Probably in the Slytherin common room: it would have been filled with students who would not care as well as students who were actively interested in such things.

Moreover, given Voldemort's great inate powers and his great grasp of theory, it would not have been difficult for him to work out much of this himsef. Even as a child, he could command people, alter memories, inflict pain, etc., without even using a wand. Once he grasped the basic theory behind what he had been doing almost instinctively, learning these spells would have been easy.

Originally Posted by Indy_Racer

But Riddle was charming, so we can guess that he could have gotten permission from a teacher to get a book out of the restricted section. We've already seen Hermione do this with Lockhart.

True, but remember that Voldemort is trying to appear to be a good boy. He is on best terms with Slughorn, who clearly favored Voldemort. However, even as late as Voldemort's 6th year, Slughorn's response is that it is natural for wizards of certain calibers to be drawn to the Dark Arts. This is a telling line, as it indicates that Slughorn is not really aware of Voldemort having a strong interest in the Dark Arts. So, Voldemort had not been asking Sluggy for permission to see such things. He clearly had not been asking other teachers too much, either: word almost certainly would have reached Dippet's ears, and it simply would not look good for the model student to appear to interested in the Dark Arts.

Originally Posted by Indy_Racer

So based on what has been written Rowling has given us 3 ways a student can get books out of the library. 1) Normal books can be checked out. 2) Restricted books need a teacher's permission. 3) The ROR can provide the books for you.

What we do not know is that the RoR can provide restricted books.
[quote=Indy_Racer;4497014]We still have the question of where do you learn/practice the Avada Kedavra spell when you aren't a qualfied wizard.[/quoteds]Again, this sort of stuff almost certainly is learned within families. Draco knew both the Crucio and the Imperius: he presumably intended to use Avada Kedavra. Now, it is possible that Voldemort taught him, but it is more probable that his father, mother, aunt, etc., taught him these things.

Originally Posted by Indy_Racer

Still, I like the idea of ROR holding 1 more secret that will be helpful to Harry.

From a literary perspective, I think that this would be a bad idea. Again, it would be repetitive: the Room has been important in two books in a row. Also, it would smack of Deus ex machina: the hero should find the clues using his own skills and mental powers (as Harry always does), not through some arbitrary device! Despite the fact that there is magic in Rowling's books, only once has she had a Deus ex machina resolution (the Priori Incantatem in the Graveyard). Do not expect to see her repeat this mistake!

Finally, having the RoR provide such an easy solution would demean and diminish Dumbledore's character. Even if he did not know about the Room prior to Harry's 4th year, then he certainly knew about it after the DA got busted. If there was anything useful there, then Dumbledore should have found it. Remember, however Harry gets his clues, Rowling has to make it some way where Dumbledore does not look like an idiot for missing it. Otherwise, Rowling will have committed the sin of writing an idiot plot (sensu Damon Knight).

Of course, if Dumbledore did not learn about the Room until Harry's 4th year, then it is incredibly improbable that Voldemort did. We learn in Chamber that great wizards like Dumbledore could not find the Chamber: so, if Dumbledore has spent so long at Hogwarts and explored so much (and for similar reasons at some time as Voldemort), then how could he find not it and Voldemort find it? Remember, Harry does not find it: he is told about it; even Fred & George and the Marauders did not really know about the Room.

[YellowPoofBall]

Also, in Goblet of Fire, Malfoy mentions that Durmstrang students are taught Dark Arts, and not just Defense. Although we don't have anything that states he did any sort of exchange program, it does not seem to be so far of a stretch to assume that a preliminary learning of Dark Arts is not as taboo as Horcrux-learning.