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What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place?



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 29th, 2007, 1:18 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

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Originally Posted by laxstar333 View Post
she could be a secret death eater, and since voldemort has control of the dementors thats how she sent them to Harry!
It is pretty interesting that she was the one to send the Dementors after Harry. My guess would be that it wasn't Voldemort's orders, but rather Fudge's. That's one way of discrediting someone, have his soul sucked out. Although I am sure she knew Harry could manage by way of magic and therefore, be expelled. Not exactly a model person student's need in their lives. There is being stern and there is being abusive. What she did, there is no excuse for, I cannot wait to see what JKR has in store for her.


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  #22  
Old April 29th, 2007, 2:02 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I think she told us when she confronted McGonagal after Fudge tryed to arrest Dumbledore. She said something about her wanting her possition at the ministry because she thought that Dumbledore wanted to be minister of magic.

I think that Umbridge enjoyed her position of power as under secetary to Fudge and didn't want to lose it. So she tried to make sure that Fudge stayed in power. To do that she had to get rid of his supposed opposition. Harry was part of that problem so he must be discredited. And to keep Fudge in power Voldemort could not be back as Harry was saying.


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  #23  
Old April 29th, 2007, 2:26 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

Umbridge is simply a power-hungry hag that was willing to do anything to get ahead in the MoM. If that meant sending dementors after Harry to discredit him, so be it.


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  #24  
Old April 29th, 2007, 2:30 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I think she was simply caught up in Fudge's insecurities about DD's influence, and being loyal to fudge she did her best to enforce complete ministry control over DD's terrain, Hogwarts.


  #25  
Old April 29th, 2007, 3:28 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

Fudge, as we saw in Order of the Phoenix, didn't want it revealed that Voldemort had returned. He seemed to be so frightened that he just wanted to pretend he was gone and that Cedric had, indeed, died due to a mistake he'd made while competing in the Triwizard Tournament.

He knew, however, that Harry and Dumbledore would say otherwise. Consequently, he had to discredit the both of them but never actually acted. Umbridge, on the other hand, did. I'm not sure if she knew Voldemort was really back or not but I'm thinking that she didn't, that she believed Fudge and decided to silence Harry in order to protect him and the Ministry.


Still nuttier than a Macadamia nut though...


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  #26  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:12 am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBear View Post
Umbridge is simply a power-hungry hag that was willing to do anything to get ahead in the MoM. If that meant sending dementors after Harry to discredit him, so be it.
That's where the problem comes in for me though, we've already seen in Prisoner of Azkaban that the dementors are prepared to perform the kiss on Harry so in sending them after Harry, Umbridge's actions are nothing short of murderous. This isn't mere discrediting, the Prophet had been doing a good job of that for months, this was much more extreme and much more vicious.

I doubt that even Fudge for all his desperation to retain office would have willingly risked Harry's very soul in such a manner.

She's a psychopathic nut case, pretty much the ministry's version of Bellatrix and because of that I can't see how Fudge or Scrimgeour, who at least seems to be smarter than Fudge, keeps her around.


  #27  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:36 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I agree it wasn't about merely discrediting Harry. She knew Harry would be attacked and kissed. Harry and Dumbledore were causing trouble for the Ministry and she did something about it, while the other Ministry officals were just complaining about them. She knew that attacking Dumbledore wasn't possible, so she went after Harry.


  #28  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:45 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

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Originally Posted by elfears91 View Post
Because she like Fudge and the rest of the ministry refused to believe Voldemort returned and she comes off at refusing to be contradicted or corrected in anyway. If Harry got people to believe him then people would start to doubt the ministry and she couldn't have that.
Spot on ...


  #29  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:47 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

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Originally Posted by snapegirl77 View Post
I agree it wasn't about merely discrediting Harry. She knew Harry would be attacked and kissed.
Sorry, not following. Could you explain, please?


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Last edited by DarkDaysAhead; April 29th, 2007 at 5:04 am.
  #30  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:51 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

well he was saying something the minister wasnt approving and well she didi ant to get rid of him for not following the minister ...so thats that,besides seh is just an awful woman


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  #31  
Old April 29th, 2007, 8:19 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

i think that Umbridge just wanted harry out of school and to look bad in order to make the ministry look better.


  #32  
Old April 29th, 2007, 12:18 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkDaysAhead View Post
Sorry, not following. Could you explain, please?
The dementors that she sent after Harry, there's every reason, IMO, to think she sent them after Harry to perform the kiss on him.


  #33  
Old April 29th, 2007, 1:34 pm
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

She definitely wanted to discredit Harry, but maybe there was a little bit more to it.

There are often instances where someone appears to be working for the higher authority - and in this case I mean Fudge NOT Voldemort but really they're just doing it so that they can take over themselves.

Maybe she was hoping that if she could discredit Harry enough, get enough backing behind her then ultimately she would get a promotion or if her ultimate gain was to get to be Minister for Magic, then that.

I can see why people think she might have been working with/for Voldemort but he's quite a subtle man, she wasn't subtle at all.

I personally think she's like Percy, likes to be seen as the one with the power, or as the one working with the person who has the power (Fudge). Picks the biggest bully in the playground to work with.


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Mrs Weasley set the potion down on the bedside cabinet, bent down, and put her arms around Harry. He had no memory of ever being hugged like this, as though by a mother. The full weight of everything he had seen that night seemed to fall in upon him as Mrs Weasley held him to her. His mother's face, his father's voice, the sight of Cedric, dead on the ground, all started spinning in his head until he could hardly bear it, until he was screwing up his face against the howl of misery fighting to get out of him
  #34  
Old April 29th, 2007, 3:49 pm
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I think she sent the dementors on her own authority; I don't think Fudge knew about it. She wanted Harry dead so there wouldn't be any attacks on Fudge's agenda.


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  #35  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:17 pm
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deevo View Post
The dementors that she sent after Harry, there's every reason, IMO, to think she sent them after Harry to perform the kiss on him.
Exactly. Very few people at that time knew Harry could fight off Dementors. Umbridge didn't think Harry stood a chance at defending himself.



Last edited by snapegirl; April 29th, 2007 at 4:21 pm.
  #36  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:47 pm
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I think its power, power of the MOM.
If the MOM cant defeat Voldy they are not powerful.

Umbridge is the best ally for the MOM, she defend the power of MOM, so Harry and Dumby represent the weakness whe they confirm the MOM has not defeated at all Voldy and Death Eaters powers.


  #37  
Old April 29th, 2007, 4:50 pm
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

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Originally Posted by snapegirl77 View Post
Exactly. Very few people at that time knew Harry could fight off Dementors.
Actually, that is very true. It's hard to think about it from the point of view of the people who don't know his talents. It's almost certainly the case therefore that she wanted him completely out of the picture.

I can't believe she never got into trouble for it.


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Mrs Weasley set the potion down on the bedside cabinet, bent down, and put her arms around Harry. He had no memory of ever being hugged like this, as though by a mother. The full weight of everything he had seen that night seemed to fall in upon him as Mrs Weasley held him to her. His mother's face, his father's voice, the sight of Cedric, dead on the ground, all started spinning in his head until he could hardly bear it, until he was screwing up his face against the howl of misery fighting to get out of him
  #38  
Old April 29th, 2007, 11:24 pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky View Post
Actually, that is very true. It's hard to think about it from the point of view of the people who don't know his talents. It's almost certainly the case therefore that she wanted him completely out of the picture.

I can't believe she never got into trouble for it.
It's unlikely her extreme actions were ever known beyond Harry, his peers and the Inquisitorial Squad.


  #39  
Old April 30th, 2007, 2:22 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

I think that when dumbledore turned down the job of minister of magic that many in the organization felt spurned and the misistry/dumbledore relationship follows a similar arc to malfoy/harry. Dumbledore is a very powerful wizard with many loyal followers after he declines to lead the MOM nor be their lackey then dd has to be marginalized. I think Lucious Malfoy seizes this opportunity and with sacks of galleons as fertilizer keeps the seeds of discontent with dumbledore well fed within the ministry.

The dementors kiss does not kill it just turns the recipient into a soulless shell, someone the ministry can trot out and say do you believe this ______ or do you believe us. I think that when we first see delores jane umbridge that she is peeved at harry because he thwarted her great plan. DJU is pretty resourceful for plan b to be the reasonable restrictions of underage use of magic laws. So while she is vile and not so great with teenagers don't underestimate her power within a gov't beaurocracy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rigdoctorbri View Post
Sounds ominously like religious zealotry.
I don't think JKRs choice of title for Umbridge as High Inquisitor is without thought; as in spanish inquistition. It also makes one think of Joeseph Mcarthy and the stan shunpikes he went after. If you haven't seen good night and good luck i recommend it.


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Last edited by dill; April 30th, 2007 at 2:51 am.
  #40  
Old April 30th, 2007, 2:54 am
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Re: What did Umbridge have against Harry in the first place???

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Originally Posted by Deevo View Post
The dementors that she sent after Harry, there's every reason, IMO, to think she sent them after Harry to perform the kiss on him.
Ah, got it.

I agree that she sent them there to perform the kiss on him but I think, when that didn't work, she began to try and discredit him. Either way, her main goal was silencing him.


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-- T.E. Lawrence


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