Should prostitution be made legal?

[guad]

Originally Posted by Discordia

Noth with our right wing Christians we won't. It will be a cold day in hell first before they ever legalize prostitution.

Well, this is why it's not a good idea to mix religious motifs or political parties with religious bases into state business. Reasons for laws and legal decisions should not be made based on 1) emotions and 2) faith, but on reason and logic, and of course, common sense.

Common sense tells us that prostitution will exist, may it be legal or not. Reason tells us that the taxes that prostitution business would have to give, could make a lot of good in the state system (health institutions, schools, streets...). Logic tells us that a legalized prostitution business can be controlled by official institutions, regarding employers conditions, health, security, etc.

[Discordia]

Common sense tells us that prostitution will exist, may it be legal or not. Reason tells us that the taxes that prostitution business would have to give, could make a lot of good in the state system (health institutions, schools, streets...). Logic tells us that a legalized prostitution business can be controlled by official institutions, regarding employers conditions, health, security, etc.

Well if you are referring to the US in that regard than we'd probably be better than other countries at regulating it and making it more institutionalized. We'd be better organized than most other countries at getting health inspectors and making sure prostitutes were healthy and free of STDs. However in other countries where prostitution is practically a part of their tourist industry like in India, Thailand, and Israel its going to be harder to enforce prostitute's rights and making sure businesses are clean. The whole point of legalizing prostitution is because some believe it will stop human trafficking. Whether prostitution is legalized or not depends on the country. Legalizing prostitution is not ast simple as it sounds. The netherlands and Germany have legalized prostitution. So perhaps their system works for them but what about other 3rd world nations? Just because prostitution is legalized does not mean that crooks are going to suddenly clean up their act. Its just going to allow traffickers to hide behind the law. Not all prostitutes become prostitutes by choice and how many times do you see prostitutes without her pimp who controlls the money? If you legalize prostitution we are also just cheapening women's rights in the long run because than its going to make it ok that women are sold for sex and that they are seen as nothing more than sexual objects. If a woman wants to sell her body of her own accord than that's her business but what about the millions of women and children forced into prostitution. Then what? Are we going to give them all lie detector tests to tell who was forced against their will and who wasn't? Even if they were forced do you really think they have that much power or courage to speak up?

[guad]

Originally Posted by Discordia

Well if you are referring to the US in that regard than we'd probably be better than other countries at regulating it and making it more institutionalized. We'd be better organized than most other countries at getting health inspectors and making sure prostitutes were healthy and free of STDs. However in other countries where prostitution is practically a part of their tourist industry like in India, Thailand, and Israel its going to be harder to enforce prostitute's rights and making sure businesses are clean. The whole point of legalizing prostitution is because some believe it will stop human trafficking. Whether prostitution is legalized or not depends on the country. Legalizing prostitution is not ast simple as it sounds. The netherlands and Germany have legalized prostitution. So perhaps their system works for them but what about other 3rd world nations? Just

Well, I agree. I had the impression that the discussion was focussing more on developed countries

But in the so called 3rd world countries, is it really the prostitution the problem, or is prostitution merely a consequence of other problems?
Meaning the lack of equality of women, poverty, social injustice, lack of education, lack of possibilities for families to survive, etc?

[Hes]

Originally Posted by Discordia

If you legalize prostitution we are also just cheapening women's rights in the long run because than its going to make it ok that women are sold for sex and that they are seen as nothing more than sexual objects. If a woman wants to sell her body of her own accord than that's her business but what about the millions of women and children forced into prostitution.

Either way, with legal or without illegal prostitution, it's never okay that women are sold against their will. Countries with legal prostitution do have problems with human trafficking, they don't think it's okay that women are forced into it against their will, they have policies to put stop to it or at least try to.

When you legalize prostitution these women in third world countries will have a place to turn to when forced into prostitution, they can turn to the government and social services for help.

By keeping it illegal women working in underground brothels, have hardly no place to turn to, because mostly they will be considered outcasts, second class citizens.

[Kirsten]

Criminalising prostitution hasn't stopped it, it just makes it harder to manage safely. Decriminalising prostution enables it to be managed more safely. If the women were working in registered, licensed brothels, with good security and enforced health screening, it would be safer for them and their patrons. Licensed brothels would make it much easier for the police to monitor human trafficking and keep underage prostitution to a minimum.

As the law stands (certainly in the UK) it's the prostitute who is criminalised and punished. If the sex trade is to remain illegal, I'd rather see the customer punished.

ETA: I don't believe prostitution is immoral. I think coercion and human trafficking and abuse are immoral, but prostitution is not necessarily any of those things. I don't think sex is a moral issue, it's just a human activity. Certain aspects of human behaviour which impact on or involve sex such as rape, infidelity, etc, I do believe to be immoral, but I don't believe that sex is something which should only be shared as part of marriage and for procreation, and I don't believe it is immoral. Prostitution can be unwise, sad, dangerous, but I don't believe it's immoral.

[Discordia]

But in the so called 3rd world countries, is it really the prostitution the problem, or is prostitution merely a consequence of other problems?
Meaning the lack of equality of women, poverty, social injustice, lack of education, lack of possibilities for families to survive, etc?

IN third world countries prositution is one of the last resorts. ITs not just that prostitution in these countries is an issue but that people are being smuggled out to work as prostitutes in other countries. The problem with prostitution in poorer countries is that its part of their tourist industry and its what keeps people with money to keep coming back.

When you legalize prostitution these women in third world countries will have a place to turn to when forced into prostitution, they can turn to the government and social services for help.

Not necessarily. Its not so easy and cookie cutter as people make it out to seem. Well they can just run to the government for help. Look at Eastern European nations where the bureacracy is sometimes just as corrupt as the criminals. Places like Israel where they would rather exploit foreign women for sex because their wives and girl friends won't indulge them. The people who are in charge of these women and control their business are not nice humanitarians spewing forth women's rights. A lot of these governments in these third world coutnries already look down on prostitutes because of their profession.

[crookshanks1177]

When I think of the issue of whether the US should legalize prostitution pr not I feel as if the US is the five year old sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and screaming "I can't hear you!"

Prostitution is probably one of the most ancient occupations this world has. I don't see the issue dissappearing on us anytime soon.

Sometimes illegalizing something that we think is 'just wrong' does not fix the problem. It makes it worse. We have the chances of the spread of STD's higher. We have a bunch of women and men in the prostitution occupation with no protection from the government, no health insurance etc...

In other words making prostitution legal may not make the issue of prostitution dissapear. But I think it will do better at protecting the general public. The people in the occupation and the people that confide in prostitution for business.

[Dawa Lhamo]

Originally Posted by crookshanks1177

When I think of the issue of whether the US should legalize prostitution or not I feel as if the US is the five year old sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes, and screaming "I can't hear you!"

Haha! I feel that way about a lot of US legislation. ^_^ You're right, though... we shouldn't make laws based on gut feeling/moral revulsion... laws should be universal and for the good of all.

[Wizard_Pupil]

Dont you know prostitution is slavery?

Do you think that the mayor percentage of women who are prostitutes: are prostitute because they wanted to?

Many of them just need money to live, because it´s the only way for them to gain money... OK but, what about the rest, the whole dirty and ugly, and cruel world of prostitutuion and XXX industry, legal or not ..
What´s behind all that?

People is truly missing the point here.

Girls from poor, third world countries are kidnapped everyday to take them to countries where *prostitution is legal*
Girls are educated (raped) to make them prostitutes.

Many girls and women are cheated, forced and druged to turn them into prostitutes, to make them do many of those XXX stuff men watch everyday thinking women do it for entertainment or because they "like it":
See, many of them are in drugs or forced, or were educated since childhood to make sucha things.

And people wnats to make this legal XD... in the countries where this is not legal...
Where´s people´s moral and sense of humanity and women rights these days?
And this is not a subject of religion or Christianity (Anyway isn´t Christianity totally right anyway?)
This is a subject of human rights!!!!!

[Rastaban43]

Originally Posted by Wizard_Pupil

Where're people's morals and sense of humanity and women rights these days?

What about male prostitutes? If this is an issue of women's rights, does that mean male prostitution can carry on?

Yes, human trafficking is a problem, but it will only be worse if prostitution is not legalised. When it is more universally legal, it is a lot easier to control by way of unions and government regulation. Do you really think that legalised prostitution would go unregulated? Human trafficking is the biggest problem where prostitution is illegal because the system is totally underground and unregulated.

As far as morality ... sex is just a service to some people. And some people offer their bodies as a service. Why shouldn't they be allowed to? If I can sleep with whomever I want, why couldn't I also charge for it, especially for the people I'd be less likely to sleep with? There are plenty of people who are willing to pay for sex that they can't get otherwise? Why not make it a legitamate service? Do people not have the right to have sex if they want?

Anyway isn't Christianity totally right anyway?

That's neither here nor there.

[Yoana]

Originally Posted by Wizard_Pupil

Dont you know prostitution is slavery?

In many cases it is. But sadly it will never go away. We won't make it go away and we won't even reduce it's magnitude if we just ban it. There is nothing to be done, and providing some legal rights and defence for these girls and boys seems the best we can do for them.

Girls from poor, third world countries are kidnapped everyday to take them to countries where *prostitution is legal*
Girls are educated (raped) to make them prostitutes.

They are also taken to countries where it's illegal. Most Bulgarian girls who are abducted are taken to Italy, and as far as I knwo, prostitution is illegal there. Illegal prostitution is better for pimps and human trafickers, because they don't have to pay taxes or provide helth care or even pay their "emplyees". This could change if a prostitution act is passed. It's no coincidence that Eastern European girls are taken to Italy rather than the Netherlands.

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by Wizard_Pupil

Dont you know prostitution is slavery?

No, in alot of cases it is, but not in all. We shouldn't generalize the people and throw them all in one pot.

Do you think that the mayor percentage of women who are prostitutes: are prostitute because they wanted to?

Of course not, but as long as people do it freely, they should get the chance of being accepted. They should get the chance of being protected by the law. Making prostitution illegal denies the prostitutes to experience such things.

[Discordia]

Yes, human trafficking is a problem, but it will only be worse if prostitution is not legalised. When it is more universally legal, it is a lot easier to control by way of unions and government regulation. Do you really think that legalised prostitution would go unregulated? Human trafficking is the biggest problem where prostitution is illegal because the system is totally underground and unregulated.

You know I think that people who know the very skim basics of human trafficking are terrible naive about the subject. No offense to anyone but I don't think a lot of the people pushing for legalization of prostitution here truly understand the deep dark underbelly of human trafficking. Human trafficking is first and foremost a business to traffickers. Many of the people who do run such businesses do so illegally and half the time they have corrupt government officials eating out of their pockets. Who do you think is making most of the money from prostitution? Definitely the women because if they were getting a good percentage of the money from all the men they are forced to be with they would have enough to have bought their own private island twice over. Legalizing prostitution is not some black and white issue. People go to prostitutes because they don't want to worry about rules and regulations. They want to have the option of not having sex with condom, molesting children, takig advatange of young women. Do you think human traffickers will suddenly turn legit if prostitution is made legal? They will still be conducting illegal activity and cover it up to make it look legal which is what they are doing now anyways. Maybe in the US if prostitution were legalized we would have health inspectors and enforced rules and regulations. You think other overty stricken nations can afford to do the same? The rights of prostitutes are not very high on their agenda. Prostitutes deserve their rights but making them legal is not necessarily going to end human trafficking. Its fine and dandy to make it legal but how will you enforce it?

[crookshanks1177]

Originally Posted by Discordia

You know I think that people who know the very skim basics of human trafficking are terrible naive about the subject. No offense to anyone but I don't think a lot of the people pushing for legalization of prostitution here truly understand the deep dark underbelly of human trafficking. Human trafficking is first and foremost a business to traffickers. Many of the people who do run such businesses do so illegally and half the time they have corrupt government officials eating out of their pockets. Who do you think is making most of the money from prostitution? Definitely the women because if they were getting a good percentage of the money from all the men they are forced to be with they would have enough to have bought their own private island twice over. Legalizing prostitution is not some black and white issue. People go to prostitutes because they don't want to worry about rules and regulations. They want to have the option of not having sex with condom, molesting children, takig advatange of young women. Do you think human traffickers will suddenly turn legit if prostitution is made legal? They will still be conducting illegal activity and cover it up to make it look legal which is what they are doing now anyways. Maybe in the US if prostitution were legalized we would have health inspectors and enforced rules and regulations. You think other overty stricken nations can afford to do the same? The rights of prostitutes are not very high on their agenda. Prostitutes deserve their rights but making them legal is not necessarily going to end human trafficking. Its fine and dandy to make it legal but how will you enforce it?

From what I gathered from reading this thread noone that supports the legalization of prostitution thinks this will completely solve the problem of human trafficking. We have not seen many good results from illegalizing prostitution.

If we legalize prostitution the government, courts, and police will have more jurisdiction to enforce laws against human trafficking and protect the prostitutes. It seems that leaving prostitution as illegal is backing the government, courts, and police into a wall. They are forced to look the other way when this is going on. As the prostitutes and human traffickers are technically committing crimes. Legalization could possibly alleviate this problem and leave room for the government, courts, and police to do more about the problem.

[Discordia]

If we legalize prostitution the government, courts, and police will have more jurisdiction to enforce laws against human trafficking and protect the prostitutes. It seems that leaving prostitution as illegal is backing the government, courts, and police into a wall. They are forced to look the other way when this is going on. As the prostitutes and human traffickers are technically committing crimes. Legalization could possibly alleviate this problem and leave room for the government, courts, and police to do more about the problem.

In places like the US, France, Canada, and the like legalizing prostitution would probably make it easier to enforce prostitutes rights.The Netherlands and Germany have already done so but they have the facilities and resources to ensure prostitute's rights. If you think that pooer Eastern European nations, nations in Africa, South America, Asia or even in the Middle East are going to legalize prostitution and all of a sudden overnight its going to be easy to protect prostitutes or traffickign victims.....you have to realize that prostitutes in these countries are second class citizens to start with and often its people in the government who are being bankrolled by traffickers. Not to mentions that these nations don't even have the funding to protect prostitutes much less their own people who are getting snatched off the streets. Its hard enough already to catch human traffickers with prostitution being illegal in most coutnries and if it gets legalized you will have these same people twisitng the law to protect their own interests and it will make it harder to prosecute them.

[Rastaban43]

Echoing what Crookshanks said, most people here recognise that human trafficking is a problem that won't be completely abolished by the legalisation of prostitution. Third world countries would have a tough time doing very much about it, and legalisation in those countries could mean an increase of the problem in those countries. However, countries, where prostitution is illegal and human trafficking is a huge problem, like Italy, have a lot to gain from legalisation. Trafficking could likely be stopped almost completely in western industrialised countries. Once the problem is more widely recognised, it's possible that more will be done in other, less developed countries.

In a side note, on NPR this morning, they ran a segment about prostitution that some of you may be interested in. It basically talks about how AIDS groups in the US cannot get government funding unless they lobby against prostitution. Here it is: Patron of D.C. Madam Accused of Hypocrisy.

[Metamorphose]

When girls run away from their homes, even little girls, a lot of times they go into prostitution because they're physically taken by pimps and forced to stay. The pimps then make them into prostitutes because the girls are "living" on their property and they have to get the money back to pay the guy. The girls don't run because they have a roof over their head and they don't want to go back out there in the cold.
A serious amount of trauma can be dealt to a child very easily. Think of the trauma they get from something this serious. And to legalize it is just saying that people are allowed to have these little girls do things that they don't even understand.

[Wab]

As has been stated numerous times before, legalised prostitution legislation (where it exists) specifically applies only to consenting adults.

Child prostitution is another matter entirely.

[Metamorphose]

The consenting adults in many cases go into prostitution either because they're just....that kind of person...or they have no other way to get money. Legalizing it would be encouraging the people that 1.) they can have sex and get paid for it; and/or 2.) that prostitution is a good way to get money (which it isn't).

[Wab]

What kind of person is "that kind of person"?