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  #21  
Old May 8th, 2007, 10:23 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NarcissaWeasley View Post
i think hermione succeeds by working herself to the bone-a lack of innovation is her main downfall i think.look for example at hbp with the princes diary-hermione is the only one of the trio who refuses to accept that there may be better ways of doing something than the 'established method'-she shows no creativity in her own work-all the magic she has such a firm grasp on was initially invented by the luna-esque folks-those who aren't afraid to try something new.
But she shows creativity on mny other occasions. She knew instantly what to do when she thought Snape was trying to jinx Harry (PS). She thought of the Potean charm, when everyone was worried about communication - she even inspired Draco. She thought of Harry giving an interview - and she was brave enough to take the risk with publishing it in The Quibbler. She thought of Polyjuice potion and made the whole plan of questioning Draco (CoS). These are all examples of briliant ideas and stokes of creativity on Hermine's part.

She's reserved only when it comes to science, in my opinion. Otherwise she's quite intuitive and ingenious.


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  #22  
Old May 8th, 2007, 11:25 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by HesHPfan View Post
But in Hufflepuff house friendships seem to be very important and until HBP we never saw Luna valuing friendship that much. In OotP she seemed quite content with being on her own, because it gave her room for her dreams and weird theories. Only in HBP, she said that DA had felt like having friends.
Nice point. But I think the reason Luna seemed content about being lonely before HBP was because no one really paid attention to her in a friendly manner. Of course we do not have enough to deduce this but I think Luna learnt to be content with what she had. Once she joined the D.A. and experienced the company of actual friends, she liked it even better. So I think it's not that Luna did not value friends before HBP; I believe she just did not have enough experience to know and decide for herself if she liked company or not.


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  #23  
Old May 8th, 2007, 11:33 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

I've always considered intelligence to be the product of one's rate of learning and the amount learned. Hermione shows she is intelligent through her immediate grasp of such things as Golpalott's Third Law.

I may be wrong, as this is the subject of many debates, but creativity is not a requirement for intelligence. It is merely a byproduct of an active imagination. I have encountered many people who can paint the most unusual renderings of imaginary beings, but simply cannot understand basic laws of logic.

Anyway, I am only expressing that I think intelligence and creativity are two independent notions that cannot be compared. Hermione and Luna could easily possess qualities of both.

I think the most obvious example of a combination of the two would be Snape, who understood the concept of potions well enough to embellish on the steps. He also understood the concepts behind wand movements and words enough to create his own spells. I tend to consider Snape's accomplishments more characteristic of intelligence than Luna's believing in Crumple-Horned whatevers. I suppose, though, that the logical process that must have occurred in her mind to lead her to believe in the possibility for their existence could be deemed intelligence.


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  #24  
Old May 8th, 2007, 11:55 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall View Post
I've always considered intelligence to be the product of one's rate of learning and the amount learned. Hermione shows she is intelligent through her immediate grasp of such things as Golpalott's Third Law.

I may be wrong, as this is the subject of many debates, but creativity is not a requirement for intelligence. It is merely a byproduct of an active imagination. I have encountered many people who can paint the most unusual renderings of imaginary beings, but simply cannot understand basic laws of logic.

Anyway, I am only expressing that I think intelligence and creativity are two independent notions that cannot be compared. Hermione and Luna could easily possess qualities of both.

I think the most obvious example of a combination of the two would be Snape, who understood the concept of potions well enough to embellish on the steps. He also understood the concepts behind wand movements and words enough to create his own spells. I tend to consider Snape's accomplishments more characteristic of intelligence than Luna's believing in Crumple-Horned whatevers. I suppose, though, that the logical process that must have occurred in her mind to lead her to believe in the possibility for their existence could be deemed intelligence.
Why hello there, Snape! Fancy seeing you here!

Anyway, I guess I think there are different kinds of intelligence, and they aren't always the kind of thing you can learn from a book. I think you can be emotionally intelligent, socially intelligent, spatially intelligent, you know - it really depends what kind of person you are. I'd say Luna's quite emotionally intelligent, if I had to put her down as anything. That's where she's had her shining moments, at least. I think she definitely belongs in Ravenclaw because of that - it takes a lot to think about that kind of abstract concept without having your brain automatically shut down on you out of bogglement.

It also bothers me a little that people don't think that counts, because I don't think I'm particularly a Hermione, either, but I know I have strengths, just like most people do. I don't think one kind of intelligence is better than the others.

(And I may be off with the intelligence thing, but I've never figured out a better way to describe it to myself, so it's staying )


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Last edited by Spritey; May 21st, 2007 at 10:01 am.
  #25  
Old May 9th, 2007, 12:26 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

The way i see it:
hermione's protean charm idea=common sense with a stroke of genius

hermione knowing what to do when she thought snape was attacking harry=a great example of her practicality and caring nature.

On the other hand:
Luna knowing exactly what to say to harry at the end of ootp and rightly gauging his feelings=a perfect example of her emotional intelligence.

However,while its interesting comparing hermione and lunas level of intelligence and suitability for ravenclaw,at the end of the day luna's the one who the sorting hat chose to be in ravenclaw so that should say something at least about her intelligence,or depending on how you look at it,the value she places on knowledge.

Hermione is without a doubt a gryffindor at heart so whether or not her intelligence is less than or surpasses luna's could be seen as irrelevant,by the sorting hat anyway.we know hermione is smarter than many ravenclaws whom she wows with her protean charming skills,which suggests that your house encompasses your values.
Hermione is a flag-bearer for courage,while luna represents a thirst for knowledge.


  #26  
Old May 9th, 2007, 12:27 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by Thornbird View Post

Why is Luna in Ravenclaw? Criteria for students to be sorted into different houses is different and unique. Ravenclaw takes very intelligent students. Luna is definitely not that intelligent. Although there might just exist a Crumple-Horned Snorkack, but even so, is Luna worthy of Ravenclaw?

I rather think she could be in Hufflepuff or even Gryffindor.

I do not wish to revolt any Luna fans, personally I love her quality of being frank and saying things as they are.

This is an open question, plz do respond.
Can't I just step outside the box here and say why I think Luna is in Ravenclaw apart from her characteristics... (which I agree she is a philosophic thinker rather than a scientific thinker)

I think she is in Ravenclaw because she is now well placed to think as a Ravenclaw and be of use to Harry in his Horcrux hunting. She wont know a thing about what the trio are doing however, but I think Luna will be the one to say something weird and wonderful that will spur the thinking of exactly what relic of Ravenclaw that would have been chosen by Voldemort for his Horcrux...


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  #27  
Old May 9th, 2007, 9:35 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverIsis
I think she is in Ravenclaw because she is now well placed to think as a Ravenclaw and be of use to Harry in his Horcrux hunting. She wont know a thing about what the trio are doing however, but I think Luna will be the one to say something weird and wonderful that will spur the thinking of exactly what relic of Ravenclaw that would have been chosen by Voldemort for his Horcrux...
I can totally see this happening! Luna has quite the over-active imagination, but I can really see her saying something that people scoff at at first, only to discover later, after putting a bit of thought into it that she was right or at least along the right lines.


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  #28  
Old May 9th, 2007, 10:11 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Why is Neville in Griffindor?

She is smart, just in a more subtle way maybe I odn't know


  #29  
Old May 9th, 2007, 11:18 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

I think that Luna is both extremely intelligent and a wonderfully odd character. The two aren't incompatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrypotterr View Post
Why is Neville in Griffindor?
Please don't get me started on that topic. He deserves to be there


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  #30  
Old May 9th, 2007, 11:23 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by harrypotterr View Post
Why is Neville in Griffindor?
Well...that's a whole different question and a whole different thread.

As for Luna, I think she was correctly placed.

Perhaps for Luna, being in Ravenclaw is not all about the intelligence.

Quote:
Or yet in wise old Ravenclaw
If you've a ready mind
Where those of wit and learning
Will always finnd their kind
Nobody can deny she has a ready mind. She is happy to believe things about Nargles, and the Rotfang Conspiracy (a personal favourite of mine ). That shows she is willing to at least give thought to all possible ideas. What is that if not a ready mind?


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  #31  
Old May 9th, 2007, 8:17 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

I had never thought Luna being in Ravenclaw had any significance... but now that I think of it, maybe it does. Why would JK put Luna in Ravenclaw? Why bother? Wouldn't it be easier, in the end, to just stick her in Gryffindor with Harry and the others? When you think of it, not many other main characters come from any other houses (by "main" I mean involved enough in the plot to go on one of Harry's many exploits).

Maybe it has a meaning (or maybe I'm grasping at straws). Ravenclaws have always been reputed to be the most intelligent, the most clever. Luna is always described as having "large, owl like eyes," and voicing "uncomfortable truths". This may hint at us that she knows something important... maybe she's even a Seer. With her always saying ridiculous things, always going for the "out there" side of things, you would really expect it, but still...

Maybe there's more to Luna than meets the eye. She may not be "booky" smart, but I seriously doubt she's stupid. Maybe she's even smarter than we think she is.


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  #32  
Old May 10th, 2007, 5:51 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Luna being in Ravenclaw does much to validate her intelligence. Perhaps there is much more truth behind her seemingly laughable conspiracy theories than people want to believe.


  #33  
Old May 11th, 2007, 9:01 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by dasfres View Post
Luna being in Ravenclaw does much to validate her intelligence. Perhaps there is much more truth behind her seemingly laughable conspiracy theories than people want to believe.
I agree. I think that there is definitely more to Luna's seemingly crazy theories than people might think at first. Being a Ravenclaw should prove that she is an intelligent person I think.


  #34  
Old May 11th, 2007, 10:48 pm
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

The fundamental difference I see between Luna and Hermione is the sources they consider to be authorotative information. While Hermione can quote chapter and verse from Hogwarts: A History, Standard Book of Spells: Grades 1-6, the rest of her text books and most of the other books in the library, Luna can quote from the Quibbler. Both retain the information they take in and interpret it in equal measure of understanding. Neither comes up with the things they believe - they get the ideas from these sources.

Luna read about wrackspurts, but didn't invent/discover them. And so when Harry is looking a little dazed on the train she thinks maybe one is around and effecting him - recalling what she's read and seen just like Hermione does. Hermione was inspired by the Dark Marks on the Death Eaters when she thought up the protean charm - she read about them in her books and was reminded. It's more often than not a "hold on, I've read about this" situation.

Neither is strictly a parrot, just reciting what they've read. It's clear they've both a high level of understanding. But intelligence is not just about understanding the established ideas - it also includes expanding into uncharted areas of information and drawing new conclusions. I think the difference is reflected in their parentage. Hermione's parents are dentists, which means they've done a lot of studying and focusing on school, books and learning in conventional manners. Not surprising to see Hermione turn out so studious. And the point about her reaction to the Prince's Potion book is right on the money - she rejects the break from conventional wisdom, even though it proves many times to be more effective.

Luna's parents are quite different. Father is a journalist, so to speak. And wild as many of his headlines may well be, Luna believes them - and who can blame her, they're from her dad. He mother was killed while attempting an experimental spell. We can see where the more creative/inventive side of the intelligence coin might apply to Luna and her parents. She may not have proof that a wrackspurt exists, but she doesn't have proof that it doesn't. And when you all find out what she thinks is a wrackspurt turns out to be Ravenclaw's invisible flying wand enchanted with spells to make your mind go fuzzy so it won't be detected - everyone will know the genius of Luna.


  #35  
Old May 13th, 2007, 12:24 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Luna definitely is intelligent. What, do you think Ginny is friends with her out of pity? Yes, Luna seems spaced-out much of the time, but that doesn't mean that there is nothing going on inside her head. I speak as a person who is frequently spaced-out (due to too many philosophical specualtions and discussions taking place in my mind). Judging Luna by the way she appears on the outside is wrong, just as judging muggle-borns to be inferior because of their heritage is wrong.

Luna is worthy of Ravenclaw. She has the rare ability to keep an extremely open mind, even though this causes her to be alienated from other people because she believes in things that others believe don't exist.

I am responding because of logic, not because I am an angry Luna fan. I know it's illogical to think that Luna is not worthy of Ravenclaw. The Sorting Hat is never wrong. It looks inside us and sees things that we don't see in ourselves (do you really think Harry was aware that he had a "thirst to prove [himeself]"?). It could have put Hermione in Ravenclaw, but it didn't, and when we see how clever she is we wonder why she wasn't put in Ravenclaw. But then we see parts of Hermione that don't usually come out during the routine of boarding school life. Her courage. Hermione belongs in Griffindor, though it appears to some people that she should be in Ravenclaw. Luna belongs in Ravenclaw, though it appears to some people that she should be in Hufflepuff or Griffindor.

I trust the Sorting Hat.


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  #36  
Old May 13th, 2007, 12:27 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Luna is smart. She thinks differently, thats all. She strikes me a someone who is very good with psychology, becuase of past things she has said. She is quiet a lot and spaced probably (not only becuase she is in her own world, seeing she does daydream) because she is studying her surroundings and the people within it.


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Last edited by potterposse; May 13th, 2007 at 12:31 am.
  #37  
Old May 13th, 2007, 12:28 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrypotterr View Post
Why is Neville in Griffindor?
Re-read PS/SS: that'll tell you. Remember Neville standing up to his friends? Remember Neville at the Ministry of Magic in OotP? Neville deserves to be in Griffindor. Just as Luna deserves to be in Ravenclaw.


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  #38  
Old May 13th, 2007, 12:35 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

Neville is a true Gryffindor, I believe.


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  #39  
Old May 13th, 2007, 1:14 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

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Originally Posted by LeiaShadow View Post
Re-read PS/SS: that'll tell you. Remember Neville standing up to his friends? Remember Neville at the Ministry of Magic in OotP? Neville deserves to be in Griffindor. Just as Luna deserves to be in Ravenclaw.
This is true. See, Neville and Luna seem to represent the unconventional sides of their houses to me; Neville's brave, but he's also unsure of himself (which means that often his bravery is not as obvious as it is in others). Similarly, Luna's intelligent, but she's also a a complete loon at times (which definitely overshadows her sparks of insight, since most people write her off based upon it). I think Neville and Luna might be there to show that this kind of thing isn't always as clear cut as it seems, because no one person is really going to be a specific set of personality traits all wound up into a package, are they?

I guess it's like with Peter Pettigrew (I hate to bring him up in relation to Neville - sorry guys ); obviously, on some level there was a dominant part of his personality that the Sorting Hat defined as brave, and that got him sorted into Gryffindor. Who knows what else could've been mixed in with that bravery?


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Last edited by Spritey; May 21st, 2007 at 10:01 am.
  #40  
Old May 13th, 2007, 1:34 am
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Re: Luna in Ravenclaw?

I think that you really can't compare Luna and Hermione's intelligence. They are two completely different people, and have their own unique mix of qualities. As Spritey said, Luna is there to show us that nothing is black and white. There are many shades of gray in between. Luna is one of these shades. She is definitely smart, but just in a different way than Hermione... so really, it isn't practical to compare them, just to look at them as their own people, with their own unique characteristics. JKR, through the Sorting Hat, put Luna in Ravenclaw, so I think we should just trust both of them. I do. Luna definitely belongs in Ravenclaw.


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