Why wasn't Trelawney at Dumbledore's funeral

[tarachristwen]

i didnt realise that too til Bscorp pointed it out....

maybe she got too drunk to attend it...
just a wild guesss

[JCalder]

Maybe funerals cloud Trelawny's inner eye?

It's already been said that Trelawny stays in her tower most of the time, so it's possible she would avoid Dumbledore's funeral. It might be too overwhelming, especially if she knew she'd have to see Firenze and Umbridge. I think of all the teachers, Trelawny would be the least able to cope with Dumbledore's passing. Hogwarts is her home, I don't think she would ever want to leave unless she had to.

I think if Trelawny had been killed or captured, it would have been mentioned. It would be a bit odd for that information to have been omitted until book 7, like it was an after thought or something.

I was wondering if McGonagall or any of the Order were aware of the potential danger Trelawny would be in away from Hogwarts and if anyone would make arrangements for her safety in the event the school closed.

[Urania]

I'm SO glad someone else started a theead on this subject... I tried once shortly after HBP came out, but it seemed that noone agreed with me.
I don't think it's an coincidens that Trelawny isn't mentioned. The text is from Harry's point of view, and he surely wouldn't notice if a single teacher was missing when he concluded that "the staff was seated"
I totally agree with the one saying that the reason for the DE's to be there was to capture Trelawny (sorry, can't remember who said it...) We don't know for sure how many DE's there actually came into Hogwarts - there could easily have been a few we don't hear about who did not attend the battle but headed straight for Trelawny's attic and took her back through ROR.
Noone would have noticed, she rarely left her room and the remaining teachers had enough on their plates without her to worry about too. Besides, I don't think any of them (perhaps with the exception of Snape) knew WHY DD insisted on letting Trelawny keep teaching (I mean... it's not like she's a great teacher).
I'm SURE that Voldemort is very interested in knowing what about Harry that is so special... and as far as he knows there's only one living person now who know the full contents of it. Perhaps he dosn't know she can't recall having ever made it, and even if he is, I'm sure there's a way to extract from her anyway...!
In my oppinion, things don't look to good for Trelawny!

[RiverIsis]

Originally Posted by staniw

The staff were seated at last.
That’s what we know about the funeral. How this sentence can be in the book if Trelawney wasn’t at the funeral is the real mystery.

I understand that it seems that she is included in "the staff" - but maybe we are just assuming she is.

The whole scene is quite descriptive, and it just seems odd that there wasn't a fleeting mention of the last teacher Harry saw before departing with DD. There isn't even a throw away comment of her sitting there in a daze, sitting in the tower refusing to come or that a link between her speaking to Harry which caused him to go to DD office in the first place.

[ronjalina]

Originally Posted by staniw

The staff were seated at last.
That’s what we know about the funeral. How this sentence can be in the book if Trelawney wasn’t at the funeral is the real mystery.

Exactly. This could mean she is included in the mention of the staff. On the other hand, Sybil does not leave her tower very often (as she told in PoA when surprisingly turning up for Christmas dinner). Harry often mentions the staff being seated in the Great Hall for the starting feast, but it seems unusual that Trelawney shows up at these occasions, therefore she would not be included in 'the staff'.

So while the funeral really was a good reason for her to come down from her tower, it is not unlikely that Harry and others just might not have noticed her absence, because they were kind of used to it. Harry however, interestingly enough, specifically mentions Firenze, the other Divination teacher who Trelawney was so unhappy about, but fails to notice Trelawney?

We still have to ask ourselves, why LV wanted a group of DEs to invade Hogwarts. Draco´s task to kill Dumbledore was a completely seperate issue. So there must have been a reason, and kidnapping Trelawney to maybe finally learn the whole prophecy would be a good reason, IMO.

[RiverIsis]

Originally Posted by ronjalina

Exactly. This could mean she is included in the mention of the staff. On the other hand, Sybil does not leave her tower very often (as she told in PoA when surprisingly turning up for Christmas dinner). Harry often mentions the staff being seated in the Great Hall for the starting feast, but it seems unusual that Trelawney shows up at these occasions, therefore she would not be included in 'the staff'.

So while the funeral really was a good reason for her to come down from her tower, it is not unlikely that Harry and others just might not have noticed her absence, because they were kind of used to it. Harry however, interestingly enough, specifically mentions Firenze, the other Divination teacher who Trelawney was so unhappy about, but fails to notice Trelawney?

We still have to ask ourselves, why LV wanted a group of DEs to invade Hogwarts. Draco´s task to kill Dumbledore was a completely seperate issue. So there must have been a reason, and kidnapping Trelawney to maybe finally learn the whole prophecy would be a good reason, IMO.

Exactly

and the only other reason I can think of having the DE's there is for LV to play the Snape card and ensure he is out of Hogwarts for the final push to take over the Wizarding world. - I like your idea more!

[YellowPoofBall]

I assumed that Malfoy requested DEs be present to help him escape, but had no say over which DEs would be sent. Come to think of it though, Voldemort doesn't seem the type to risk a few DEs so that Malfoy could have help in a task that he's supposed to fail.

I know this doesn't sound right, but for the sake of literature, I do hope that Voldemort eventually hears the entire prophecy before the end of the book. It just seems to me that it would detract from the whole statement JKR was making about prophecies if Voldemort never understood why it came true. Perhaps not at the expense of Trelawney's death, though.

[_emily]

Well, there were a lot of people at the funeral, and it would have taken forever to name everyone. I'm sure she was there, she just wasn't mentioned.

[Freaky]

Originally Posted by JCalder

I think if Trelawny had been killed or captured, it would have been mentioned. It would be a bit odd for that information to have been omitted until book 7, like it was an after thought or something.

Well, we haven't actually left the school yet, so it wouldn't actually be an after thought...

It never occurred to me as odd, and I've avoided posting in this thread until now when I had a lazy few minutes, and yes, I do agree that if Trelawney were there Harry would mention it. He has found out that she knew that it was Snape who overheard her interview...he is really angry with Snape, Snape has just killed DD so I'm sure if she was there he would have said.

However, I'm not sure anything sinister has happened to her (but I wouldn't be the first one wrong on this sort of thing! She has spent the vast majority of the last year worse for wear, drinking a substantive amount.

She is angry at DD for insisting on keeping Firenze...and then to add further insult, he no longer wishes to discuss the matter with her, and she takes offence.

I would think that it is most likely that she is in her tower, aware of DD's death (as she never seems surprised at events and I'm sure the staff would keep her appraised), drinking merrily to drown her sorrows and refusing to come down on principle.

Some people also just don't like funerals.

[weasleylove]

mm good catch! i think that if she wasn't present, it is significant, as she did seem to respect DD as much as other teachers but she was still a bit loopy.. so who knows.. i found it v.interesting she was not mentioned though.

[CrotonaPark44]

HBP30, "The White Tomb," [p 633, US hardback ed]

"All lessons were suspended. All examinations postponed. Some students were hurried away from Hogwarts by their parents over the next couple of days . . ."

Over the next couple of days between Dumbledore's murder and his funeral. McGonagall had sufficient time before the funeral to do a thorough head count of Hogwarts staff and students and verify that all were present and accounted for. If Trelawney were missing in action, McGonagall would know, and probably the rest of the staff as well. The teachers may not have told their students, but Hogwarts being Hogwarts rumors spread very quickly.

Has Sybill Trelawney ever been out of doors during daylight hours? Has Sybill Trelawney ever been out of doors since she was hired by Dumbledore? Sybill never appears at the start of term banquet. A public ceremony like the funeral would be much too much for her to handle.

I'm sure she is safely in her tower mourning Dumbldore in her own private way and regretting that he did not heed her warnings about the lightning struck tower.

[MAGICicalMUggle]

Originally Posted by Urania

I'm SO glad someone else started a theead on this subject... I tried once shortly after HBP came out, but it seemed that noone agreed with me.
I don't think it's an coincidens that Trelawny isn't mentioned. The text is from Harry's point of view, and he surely wouldn't notice if a single teacher was missing when he concluded that "the staff was seated"
I totally agree with the one saying that the reason for the DE's to be there was to capture Trelawny (sorry, can't remember who said it...) We don't know for sure how many DE's there actually came into Hogwarts - there could easily have been a few we don't hear about who did not attend the battle but headed straight for Trelawny's attic and took her back through ROR.
Noone would have noticed, she rarely left her room and the remaining teachers had enough on their plates without her to worry about too. Besides, I don't think any of them (perhaps with the exception of Snape) knew WHY DD insisted on letting Trelawny keep teaching (I mean... it's not like she's a great teacher).
I'm SURE that Voldemort is very interested in knowing what about Harry that is so special... and as far as he knows there's only one living person now who know the full contents of it. Perhaps he dosn't know she can't recall having ever made it, and even if he is, I'm sure there's a way to extract from her anyway...!
In my oppinion, things don't look to good for Trelawny!

Hello Urania!

The person who suggested that the reason for the DE's to be there was to capture Trelawney was in fact me!

I do think that Trelawneys absence from the funeral is significant i mean since when does Harry ever pay attention to anything?...All we heard was "the staff was seated"..But we didn't hear which teachers were actually there!..because i think that JK would just assume that we wouldn't pay attention if Trelawney was missing because of that quote!..She obviously didn't want to draw attention to Trelawneys dissaperance because it has to do with the plot in Deathly Hallows!..I mean i'm sure Trelawney was still there drunk on the seventh floor where Harry had left her!.. And i doubt anyone would have noticed if Trelawney was missing because everyone was to overcome with their own grief!

[TheDarkOne]

Wow. Why did I never notice that. I suppose she could be there. It's hard to see everyone at a funeral. Maybe she hid behind Grawp!

[Den_muggle]

It could be significant that she wasn't mentioned, but it would make McGonagall awfully lax to not even notice a staff member missing for a couple of days.

I think Trelawny is holed up in her tower drinking herself to death in grief and fear. Dumbledore was the only reason she was still there. With him gone, who would stand up for her and insist she stay? She knows Minerva thinks she's a fraud. Also, she believes in the afterlife, so she might not be feeling as much grief as the others. In fact, she may be trying to contact him. Can't you just see her bent over her crystal ball--"Let's see if he'll dismiss my concerns now!" Poor Dumbledore, he won't even be able to get away from her in death!

To be honest, thinking about Trelawny, I'd be more surprised if she were at the funeral. As for why else the Death Eaters would have been at Hogwarts--Voldemort has always wanted to take it over. If Dumbledore were gone, he'd think he had a chance...until the Order and students kicked some serious Death Eater butt. He may still be trying to get Gryffindor's sword to make another horcrux. He may have thought Draco couldn't kill Dumbledore, so he also ordered him to help the Death Eaters get inside so they could do it or help him do it. There could be lots of reasons besides kidnapping Trelawney. It's not that I think he wouldn't or wouldn't think of it if he knew she had given the prophecy, I just can't see Minerva being so lax as to not notice a staff member missing after several days. Even in her grief, she was taking responsibility.

Interesting hypothesis and possible, I just don't think it's very probable that no one would notice her missing. Good catch, though and very interesting. I'll wait to see if Voldemort does try to kidnap her in Deathly Hallows or if he forgets the prohecy and goes on. He didn't seem to care about it in Half-Blood Prince. I think that was just for Book 5, as it wasn't mentioned before or after it. But we'll soon see!

[RiverIsis]

Originally Posted by CrotonaPark44

HBP30, "The White Tomb," [p 633, US hardback ed]

"All lessons were suspended. All examinations postponed. Some students were hurried away from Hogwarts by their parents over the next couple of days . . ."

Over the next couple of days between Dumbledore's murder and his funeral. McGonagall had sufficient time before the funeral to do a thorough head count of Hogwarts staff and students and verify that all were present and accounted for. If Trelawney were missing in action, McGonagall would know, and probably the rest of the staff as well. The teachers may not have told their students, but Hogwarts being Hogwarts rumors spread very quickly.

Has Sybill Trelawney ever been out of doors during daylight hours? Has Sybill Trelawney ever been out of doors since she was hired by Dumbledore? Sybill never appears at the start of term banquet. A public ceremony like the funeral would be much too much for her to handle.

I'm sure she is safely in her tower mourning Dumbldore in her own private way and regretting that he did not heed her warnings about the lightning struck tower.

Yes, I see your point of view. I know some people don't "do" funerals but we aren't even told that. As you say the school gossip network would have said something.

But the whole school is in shock (heck, I was when I read it the first time) so it would be easy for most to assume that Trelawney had locked herself up in her tower, and if she hadn't I don't think McGonagall would actually be going around shouting about it. It would be on her things to sort out after the funeral list.

[xhanax315]

Maybe since she wasn't seen someone had kidnapped her. She wasn't mention again after the incident when Harry seen her near the Room of Requirement. Perhaps she's missing.....

[Defyeverything]

Originally Posted by Urania

I totally agree with the one saying that the reason for the DE's to be there was to capture Trelawny (sorry, can't remember who said it...) We don't know for sure how many DE's there actually came into Hogwarts - there could easily have been a few we don't hear about who did not attend the battle but headed straight for Trelawny's attic and took her back through ROR.
...........
I'm SURE that Voldemort is very interested in knowing what about Harry that is so special... and as far as he knows there's only one living person now who know the full contents of it. Perhaps he dosn't know she can't recall having ever made it, and even if he is, I'm sure there's a way to extract from her anyway...!

First of all there are only maybe 4 people know who gave the prophacy about Harry and Voldemort and they are: The two Dumbledores, Snape and Harry. If Voldemort knew Trelawny was the one who gave the full one I'd think he wouldnt waste his time with Harry and go straight to the source. Also why would he waste all his efforts on getting Harry to the Hall of Prophacys for him if he could just go high-jack the person who uttered it in the frist place? And even if by some (not possable) way Voldemort did find out who gave the prophacy how would the death eaters know where she sleeps?

[dasfres]

I doubt that she was kidnapped. Who would want her? She made a couple of chance predictions, and other than that is worthless. I suspect she thinks funerals (along with everything else) bring bad luck, since they deal with death.

[RiverIsis]

Originally Posted by dasfres

I doubt that she was kidnapped. Who would want her? She made a couple of chance predictions, and other than that is worthless. I suspect she thinks funerals (along with everything else) bring bad luck, since they deal with death.

well she predicted it! - in fact she quite routinely predicts Harry's death, so she seems pretty comfortable with the concept.

LV spends most of OotP trying to work out a way to get his complete prophecy and it climaxes with the fight at the ministry and the prophecy being broken and you don't think he would try to find out who made the prophecy and get his information from "the source" so to speak. The prophecy (and thus Trelawney) is only important because LV thinks its important.

[DobbysBludger]

Originally Posted by Defyeverything

First of all there are only maybe 4 people know who gave the prophacy about Harry and Voldemort and they are: The two Dumbledores, Snape and Harry. If Voldemort knew Trelawny was the one who gave the full one I'd think he wouldnt waste his time with Harry and go straight to the source. Also why would he waste all his efforts on getting Harry to the Hall of Prophacys for him if he could just go high-jack the person who uttered it in the frist place? And even if by some (not possable) way Voldemort did find out who gave the prophacy how would the death eaters know where she sleeps?

I believe Voldemort is aware of who made the prophecy, he could not "go straight to the source", because she was under Dumbledore's protection. Hence Umbridge's efforts to have her removed, Voldemort needs her - Lucius sees Fudge moneybags a-jingling and mentions what a terrible teacher she is - Umbridge receives her orders - had Dumbledore not insisted she stay, there were DeathEaters waiting just outside the school gates ready to pick her up.
All that being said, in my opinion, the DeathEaters present at the school that night were there to ensure Malfoy did his task, and if he waivered to do it for him and bring him back for punishment.

But, all of that is rather off topic, I don't believe anything untoward has happened to Sybil, that we would have heard about. Either Harry didn't notice her or she was up in her tower knocking back the cooking sherry, mourning Dumbledore and berating him for not listening to her.