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Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?



 
 
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  #41  
Old June 6th, 2007, 8:38 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Just because it's in the pamphlet doesn't mean everyone can do it. Same as most people can't do a proper Shield Charm, which is the reason why the Ministry bought a load from Fred and George's Shield clothing line.

I think it probably is tough to Side-Along Apparate. But I don't think Harry's experience of Side-Along Apparating Dumbledore means that he's extraordinarily powerful. He was most likely just guiding Dumbledore, who could Apparate, so that Dumbledore didn't have to concentrate so much. Like helping old people cross streets; they can probably make it across by themselves, it's just easier to have some help.


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  #42  
Old June 6th, 2007, 8:51 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

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Originally Posted by sholeigh View Post
The daft thing is that since most wizard dwellings are protected from apparition - I assume to keep out burglars - parents wouldn't have any chance to get their children away if the Death Eaters came knocking. They would have to get out of the house first. The Weasleys at least have an advantage, since their house doesn't seem to be protected, Percy, Fred and George have all Apparated within the building.

Actually, did anyone else notice that the twins could also Apparate inside Grimmauld Place? I wonder if that answers how house-elves can apparate inside buildings.
Well, that gets a bit complicated. Some choose to protect their homes with an anti-apparition spell and some don't. However, we are also shown that an anti-apparition spell can have qualifications. For example, Hogwarts is protected by an anti-apparition spell that covers the castle and the surrounding grounds. However, in HBP, we are told that Dumbledore was able to release the anti-apparition spell for the Great Hall so students could practice apparating within that room. The spell was still in place for the rest of the castle and the grounds. So it's possible that, with a private residence, the spell could have specifications as well - nobody can apparate in from the outside and/or apparate to the outside, but they can apparate within the interior of the house. That would probably be more common with large homes like Grimmauld Place, IMO.

Regarding the Burrow, I don't think the Weasleys used an anti-apparition spell to protect the Burrow prior to OOTP. Up until Voldemort returned, they really didn't need extreme security at the Burrow. They may or may not have put something like that in place during OOTP because they spent the majority of their time at Grimmauld Place. However, Molly and Arthur returned to the Burrow once the kids had gone to school so they may have. In HBP, they had definitely added an anti-apparition spell to the house because Tonks had to go outside to apparate when she left.

Personally, I think that a person who can apparate would also be able to side-along apparate. It's a difficult skill, but not impossible. And it's not a pleasant sensation so a lot of people - like Dumbledore - choose not to do it unless they have to. I think the Weasleys are able to do it - it is implied in OOTP that Arthur would have taken Harry to the Ministry with side-along apparition if it had not been for the fact that the Ministry was looking for any excuse to expel Harry. He decided it would be best to arrive in a non-magical fashion. Using the car or floo powder for traveling with his family was simply a practical decision. He had seven children. It would have been impractical to try to travel with side-along apparition because they would have to make multiple trips. That would be true for any family with more than two children.


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  #43  
Old June 6th, 2007, 10:39 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

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Originally Posted by gottriplets View Post
I can't attest to SAA, since I'm a muggle...but it is exhausting "loading, unloading, buckling in...etc with multiples! (but I wouldn't trade it for the world)
You win! Your sig pic says it all!

I just read in OotP that Lupin told Harry flying on broomsticks is the only way to get him to Grimmauld Place, because the Floo is being watched and he's too young to Apparate! That confirms it, IMO - Jo didn't think of Side-Along Apparition until she was writing HBP!

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Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall View Post
I think it probably is tough to Side-Along Apparate. But I don't think Harry's experience of Side-Along Apparating Dumbledore means that he's extraordinarily powerful. He was most likely just guiding Dumbledore, who could Apparate, so that Dumbledore didn't have to concentrate so much. Like helping old people cross streets; they can probably make it across by themselves, it's just easier to have some help.
That's a good comparison! I also think this is yet another of Harry's extraordinary talent. He's not even 17, he's never been taught how to do Side-Along Apparition, but he instinctively knows how to do it and succeeds first time. If Harry had had time to think about it, I'm sure he wouldn't have believed he could do it, but he just knew he had to do it and got on with it!


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  #44  
Old June 6th, 2007, 10:57 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

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Originally Posted by anabel View Post
You win! Your sig pic says it all!

I just read in OotP that Lupin told Harry flying on broomsticks is the only way to get him to Grimmauld Place, because the Floo is being watched and he's too young to Apparate! That confirms it, IMO - Jo didn't think of Side-Along Apparition until she was writing HBP!
Actually, that would be consistent with the fact that they are trying to get Harry out of there in secret and they don't want him getting into trouble for using magic. The Ministry would have detected apparition and Harry would have been accused of doing further magic illegally.

Mr. Weasley also gives the implication that he could apparate Harry to the Ministry for his hearing, but he feels that it is best not to because they are looking for any excuse to expel Harry.

OOTP“No, I usually Apparate,” said Mr Weasley, ‘but obviously you can’t, and I think it’s best we arrive in a thoroughly non-magical fashion … makes a better impression, given what you’re being disciplined for …”


If it were simply a matter of Harry not being able to apparate, then that last sentence would not be necessary. The implication is that Mr. Weasley could apparate them both there, but feels that would not be wise. I think Jo had come up with the idea - although she may not have decided what to call that yet.

Quote:
That's a good comparison! I also think this is yet another of Harry's extraordinary talent. He's not even 17, he's never been taught how to do Side-Along Apparition, but he instinctively knows how to do it and succeeds first time. If Harry had had time to think about it, I'm sure he wouldn't have believed he could do it, but he just knew he had to do it and got on with it!
I don't think it's all that extraordinary though. Harry had been taught how to apparate so he knew how it was done. And he had experienced side-along apparition twice with Dumbledore. I think that anyone who knew how to apparate would be able to do that. It would take more concentration, but I think the hard part is learning how to apparate all together. Once you know how, you would be capable of helping someone else.

Personally, I think that says more about Harry's ability to focus and keep his head during times of stress than his magical prowess.


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All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

  #45  
Old June 7th, 2007, 12:21 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
Actually, that would be consistent with the fact that they are trying to get Harry out of there in secret and they don't want him getting into trouble for using magic. The Ministry would have detected apparition and Harry would have been accused of doing further magic illegally.
I disagree.

Mundungus apparated in Little Whinging, right in front of #4 and from Magnolia Crescent/Wisteria Walk. The MoM said nothing about detecting this, which is odd, because they'd have wanted to trump more charges against Harry if they could have managed.

With Side-Along Apparition, the person performing the wandless magic would have been an adult, Harry---the underaged wizard---would not have gotten into any trouble for being a side-along passenger to the adult apparator. He wouldn't be in control of any magic that occurred.

Just as he wasn't in trouble when Arthur performed magic at Privet Drive in GoF, or for the door magically unlocking and letting Harry out of his room, for Tonks fixing the plate she broke, the 'Lumos' spell, her magically throwing stuff into Harry's trunk and doing a half-hearted 'Scourgify' on Hedwig's cage. Then there's Dumbledore's bits of magic in HBP, including Side-Along Apparition. Harry got no warning owl for the magic performed.
Quote:
“No, I usually Apparate,” said Mr Weasley, ‘but obviously you can’t,
I disagree, as Arthur isn't mentioning Side-Along Apparition as an option, he's apparently talking about Harry being to young to Apparate and that they should arrive in a non-magic fashion---which was a simple way for Arthur to feed his Muggle obsession, i.e. 'escapators'.

I noticed that Scrimgeour never trotted out the "We know you Apparated twice on the night that Dumbledore died." Perhaps wandless magic is harder to detect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anabel
I just read in OotP that Lupin told Harry flying on broomsticks is the only way to get him to Grimmauld Place, because the Floo is being watched and he's too young to Apparate! That confirms it, IMO - Jo didn't think of Side-Along Apparition until she was writing HBP!
But we saw Side-Along Apparition IN OotP. It was established, even if it wasn't named yet.
OotP, The Only One He Ever Feared"I saw him, Mr. Fudge, I swear, it was You-Know-Who, he grabbed a woman and Disapparated!"
"I know, Williamson, I know, I saw him too!" gibbered Fudge...
I think it's significant that we've seen Side-Along Apparition by only three wizards in Potterverse:
  • Voldemort/Bellatrix in OotP--Voldemort, the most powerful Dark wizard in a century can do it.
  • Dumbledore/Harry in HBP--Dumbledore, the greatest wizard in a century can do it.
  • Harry/Dumbledore in HBP--Harry, who shares an odd 'connection' to Voldemort can do it.


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  #46  
Old June 7th, 2007, 1:07 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

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Originally Posted by kingwidgit View Post
I disagree.

Mundungus apparated in Little Whinging, right in front of #4 and from Magnolia Crescent/Wisteria Walk. The MoM said nothing about detecting this, which is odd, because they'd have wanted to trump more charges against Harry if they could have managed.
They would not have been able to prove that it was Harry who apparated. Mundungus was outside when he apparated and Harry didn't even know how to apparate at that time. Harry was still there and was seen by his aunt and uncle and several muggles. It would have been a simple matter for Dumbledore to testify that he was checking up on Harry to make sure he was okay. Fudge would not have liked it, but there would be nothing he could do about it.

With the Advanced Guard, they were going for stealth. They did not want anyone to know that they were taking Harry from the house that night. I think that included the Ministry. The Order is a secret Organization and they were doing everything they could to keep the Ministry from finding out what they were doing.

Quote:
With Side-Along Apparition, the person performing the wandless magic would have been an adult, Harry---the underaged wizard---would not have gotten into any trouble for being a side-along passenger to the adult apparator. He wouldn't be in control of any magic that occurred.
I know that - I doubt Fudge would have cared all that much. Fudge was looking for any feasible excuse and apparition from within the Dursleys' house - or their back yard - would be cause for suspicion - particularly at night. It would be looked into and the last thing they wanted was for the Ministry to find out about the Order.

Quote:
Just as he wasn't in trouble when Arthur performed magic at Privet Drive in GoF, or for the door magically unlocking and letting Harry out of his room, for Tonks fixing the plate she broke, the 'Lumos' spell, her magically throwing stuff into Harry's trunk and doing a half-hearted 'Scourgify' on Hedwig's cage. Then there's Dumbledore's bits of magic in HBP, including Side-Along Apparition. Harry got no warning owl for the magic performed.
Well, the Ministry knew that Arthur was picking Harry up in GOF - he had made arrangements to have the Dursley's fireplace added to the floo network for that afternoon. In HBP, they were no longer looking for excuses to expel Harry and I'd say that they knew Dumbledore was picking him up that night. Dumbledore did allow the Ministry to help out with protection around the Burrow so they did know that Harry would be staying there.

The little spells done in OOTP would have been easy to explain. Again, Dumbledore could say that he sent someone to check on Harry because of the attack - he may have done that in advance when he told Fudge that the Ministry could not expel Harry. I think they avoided apparating because they didn't want anyone to know that they were taking Harry from the house. Voldemort had spies within the ministry the first time around - he probably has spies within the ministry now.

My main point though was that the fact that the Order did not use side-along apparition does not prove that Jo hadn't thought of it at that time. Lupin's comment is also consistent with them simply being cautious because they didn't want anyone to know that Harry was being moved that night.

Quote:
I disagree, as Arthur isn't mentioning Side-Along Apparition as an option, he's apparently talking about Harry being to young to Apparate and that they should arrive in a non-magic fashion---which was a simple way for Arthur to feed his Muggle obsession, i.e. 'escapators'.
If it were just about Harry being too young, then there would be no need to mention that it would be best for them to arrive in a non-magical way. The second part of that quote implies that there was a magical way that Arthur could have taken him - and there was. He could have used side-along apparition, he could have used a portkey, and he could have used floo powder. He chose not to do any of those things because Harry had to go to the hearing on the accusation of doing underage magic and he felt it best not to use magical means of transportation.

Quote:
I noticed that Scrimgeour never trotted out the "We know you Apparated twice on the night that Dumbledore died." Perhaps wandless magic is harder to detect.
The Ministry can detect that magic has been done - not who performed the magic. At Privet Dr., they would automatically assume it was Harry because he's the only wizard known to live in that area. Hogsmeade is a wizarding village and they would have no way of knowing who was apparating. I doubt they even bother to keep tabs on Hogsmeade any more than they do wizarding homes. There would be no point in it. Dumbledore explained that to Harry in HBP.

Quote:
But we saw Side-Along Apparition IN OotP. It was established, even if it wasn't named yet.
OotP, The Only One He Ever Feared"I saw him, Mr. Fudge, I swear, it was You-Know-Who, he grabbed a woman and Disapparated!"
"I know, Williamson, I know, I saw him too!" gibbered Fudge...
I think it's significant that we've seen Side-Along Apparition by only three wizards in Potterverse:
  • Voldemort/Bellatrix in OotP--Voldemort, the most powerful Dark wizard in a century can do it.
  • Dumbledore/Harry in HBP--Dumbledore, the greatest wizard in a century can do it.
  • Harry/Dumbledore in HBP--Harry, who shares an odd 'connection' to Voldemort can do it.
Exactly. That was my point all along. It is clear that Jo had created the concept - she just did not give it a name or fully explain it in OOTP. She waited for HBP to do that. And that is common for her to do - she frequently introduces a magical concept in one book by having Harry witness it and then explains it in more detail in a later book.

I have no doubt that side-along apparition is common - particularly in families with only one or two children. We've only seen a few people do it because those things were relevant to the story. We don't need to see anyone else doing it - that would be redundant and there wouldn't be any reason to show it unless it had something to do with Harry. The concept was introduced in OOTP and explained in HBP. From what we are shown, pretty much anyone who knows how to apparate would be capable of side-along apparition.


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Reform must come from within, not from without. ~ James Cardinal Gibbons

"So, if people want information on my characters, then they have to accept that I'm going to give them the information on the characters. And if they don't like it, that's the nature of fiction. You have to accept someone else's world because they made that world, so they probably know a little better than you do what goes on there." ~ J.K. Rowling


All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.


Last edited by meesha1971; June 7th, 2007 at 1:11 am.
  #47  
Old June 7th, 2007, 2:22 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

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Originally Posted by meesha1971 View Post
I know that - I doubt Fudge would have cared all that much. Fudge was looking for any feasible excuse and apparition from within the Dursleys' house - or their back yard - would be cause for suspicion - particularly at night. It would be looked into and the last thing they wanted was for the Ministry to find out about the Order.
I mentioned Mundungus Apparating on Privet Drive prior to the Dementor attack. There'd be no way to justify some random magical person, who doesn't live in Little Whinging {the MoM keeps track of that} to be DisApparating "from the front of my house!" as Harry told Arabella Figg. Yet this wasn't even mentioned, not once. Harry wasn't called on to explain that bit of adult magic that occurred right in front of #4 Privet Drive just prior to his own use of underage magic in Little Whinging. If he wasn't called on to explain a bit of adult Apparition/DisApparition in front of his house because as you said, "The Ministry can detect that magic has been done - not who performed the magic. At Privet Dr., they would automatically assume it was Harry because he's the only wizard known to live in that area.", then why would there suddenly be a need for him to explain adult controlled Side-Along Apparition/DisApparition on Privet Drive?

Dumbledore could have no reason to tell the MoM to expect more magic there, three nights after the fact, IF he was going for stealth and they were trying to keep things from the MoM, who might have been seeded with Voldemort's spies. Plus the MoM apparently sent the owl, explaining the change of time/venue of Harry's hearing, that never reached him, possibly as a result of being at 12 Grimmauld Place, but more likely IMO that they sent the notification to Privet Drive.

I completely agree with you though, just because we don't see others do it doesn't mean they are incapable of it, and it doesn't mean that JK didn't think of it before HBP was released.

In fact, there were two instances of Side-Along Apparition in OotP:
Fawkes Apparated Dumbledore out of the Head's office in the 'Centaur and the Sneak'.
Voldemort Apparated Bella out of the MoM in 'The Only One He Ever Feared'.


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  #48  
Old June 7th, 2007, 6:08 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

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Originally Posted by kingwidgit View Post
I mentioned Mundungus Apparating on Privet Drive prior to the Dementor attack. There'd be no way to justify some random magical person, who doesn't live in Little Whinging {the MoM keeps track of that} to be DisApparating "from the front of my house!" as Harry told Arabella Figg. Yet this wasn't even mentioned, not once. Harry wasn't called on to explain that bit of adult magic that occurred right in front of #4 Privet Drive just prior to his own use of underage magic in Little Whinging. If he wasn't called on to explain a bit of adult Apparition/DisApparition in front of his house because as you said, "The Ministry can detect that magic has been done - not who performed the magic. At Privet Dr., they would automatically assume it was Harry because he's the only wizard known to live in that area.", then why would there suddenly be a need for him to explain adult controlled Side-Along Apparition/DisApparition on Privet Drive?

Dumbledore could have no reason to tell the MoM to expect more magic there, three nights after the fact, IF he was going for stealth and they were trying to keep things from the MoM, who might have been seeded with Voldemort's spies.
Actually, that is not quite accurate. Harry has needed protection for pretty much his entire life. Even with Voldemort seemingly defeated, the potential for one or more angry Death Eaters to try and get at him was a constant danger. Prior to OOTP, the ministry had been willing to aid in that protection. Fudge was not willing to believe that Voldemort was back, but Dumbledore never wavered in his conviction that Voldemort had returned. He has had Mrs. Figg in place since the beginning - keeping an eye on Harry. Fudge could call him senile, paranoid, even delusional - but he could not fault Harry for Dumbledore's actions in sending adult witches or wizards to check up on Harry from time to time.

Mundungus did apparate before the dementor attack. However, Harry did not go anywhere - he was seen by his aunt and uncle and several muggles who looked out of their window. Mundungus was not in the house - he was somewhere nearby. At best, the Ministry would know that somebody apparated near #4 Privet Dr. at that time, but they would not be able to pin that on Harry because, at that point, Harry did not know how to apparate and he was still present at #4 Privet Dr. after the apparition took place. That would be a dead end for the Ministry. Nobody would believe that a 15 year old boy who had not taken any lessons would be apparating - and Dumbledore could immediately counter such a suggestion with the fact that several muggles saw that Harry was still there after the apparition occurred.

After the dementor attack, it could be claimed that they were checking up on Harry. He had been accused of doing underage magic, threatened with expulsion, and faced a hearing to determine whether or not he would be expelled. Just two years prior, the fear of being expelled for doing underage magic had driven Harry to run away from his aunt and uncle's house. It would be reasonable for someone to be sent to check up on Harry - make sure he was okay - that he was holding up and not being mistreated - make sure he was not contemplating taking off. Dumbledore had plenty of justifiable reasons to send someone to check on Harry without revealing his intention to remove Harry from #4 Privet Dr. and bring him to #12 Grimmauld Place. I think it was the fact that Harry was being moved that they wanted to hide - not just from the Ministry, but Voldemort as well.

Quote:
Plus the MoM apparently sent the owl, explaining the change of time/venue of Harry's hearing, that never reached him, possibly as a result of being at 12 Grimmauld Place, but more likely IMO that they sent the notification to Privet Drive.
My impression was that the Ministry had deliberately changed the time and venue of the hearing at the last minute hoping that would make things look worse for Harry. An owl was dispatched, but it would not have reached Harry in time to make it to the hearing on time. If Mr. Weasley had not decided to go in early, Harry could have missed his hearing all together. I always felt that was Fudge's intention all along. He certainly attempted to prevent Dumbledore from showing up in the same manner - Dumbledore never received his owl either but was prepared for such an action from Fudge and showed up early himself. It was clear that Fudge was disconcerted by that - his plan had failed.

Quote:
I completely agree with you though, just because we don't see others do it doesn't mean they are incapable of it, and it doesn't mean that JK didn't think of it before HBP was released.

In fact, there were two instances of Side-Along Apparition in OotP:
Fawkes Apparated Dumbledore out of the Head's office in the 'Centaur and the Sneak'.
Voldemort Apparated Bella out of the MoM in 'The Only One He Ever Feared'.
Absolutely. Mr. Weasley alluded to it and we saw Voldemort do that with Bellatrix at the end. I'm not so sure Fawkes' action could be considered apparating - possible, but the flash of fire raises questions. It's certainly similar to apparating - I'm just not sure it's the same thing. However, I agree that the concept was clearly alluded to and shown. I think it is apparent that Jo had at least come up with the concept at that time - although she might not have decided what to call it yet.


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All posts are my opinions and interpretations based on reading the Harry Potter books and interviews with J.K. Rowling.

  #49  
Old June 7th, 2007, 9:35 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwidgit View Post
But we saw Side-Along Apparition IN OotP. It was established, even if it wasn't named yet.
OotP, The Only One He Ever Feared"I saw him, Mr. Fudge, I swear, it was You-Know-Who, he grabbed a woman and Disapparated!"
"I know, Williamson, I know, I saw him too!" gibbered Fudge...
I think it's significant that we've seen Side-Along Apparition by only three wizards in Potterverse:

* Voldemort/Bellatrix in OotP--Voldemort, the most powerful Dark wizard in a century can do it.
* Dumbledore/Harry in HBP--Dumbledore, the greatest wizard in a century can do it.
* Harry/Dumbledore in HBP--Harry, who shares an odd 'connection' to Voldemort can do it.
Good point! Perhaps she only thought of it at the end of OotP, or perhaps it really is something only a powerful wizard can do! If it was commonplace, we'd have seen more of it.


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  #50  
Old June 8th, 2007, 12:41 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

I'm confused, how would the Ministry know that someone Apparated to Harry and then Harry was Side-Along Apparated away as opposed to someone just Apparating and Disapparating from Privet Drive? I don't think they get that detailed with it; if they even can tell that Apparition has been done, I doubt they'd be able to tell if it was specifically Side-Along or not.

It seems that if it could have been done, it would have been exceedingly simpler to Side-Along Apparate Harry away from Privet Drive, instead of doing all that ducking and weaving and going through cloud formations.


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  #51  
Old June 9th, 2007, 8:03 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingwidgit View Post
I think it's significant that we've seen Side-Along Apparition by only three wizards in Potterverse:
  • Voldemort/Bellatrix in OotP--Voldemort, the most powerful Dark wizard in a century can do it.
  • Dumbledore/Harry in HBP--Dumbledore, the greatest wizard in a century can do it.
  • Harry/Dumbledore in HBP--Harry, who shares an odd 'connection' to Voldemort can do it.
I also agree with the idea that side-along apparition appears to be something that only very advanced/powerful wizards can do. At one point in GoF I believe it's implied that Apparition is rather complex and isn't as safe as say riding a broomstick (I think Mr. Weasley was telling Harry about splinching). Since apparition can go horribly wrong even with one person doing it, it makes sense to me that side-along apparition would be doubly hard and doubly dangerous to accomplish. Not only would the apparator have to think about getting him/herself from one destination to another, s/he'd have to worry about another person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowPoofBall View Post
It seems that if it could have been done, it would have been exceedingly simpler to Side-Along Apparate Harry away from Privet Drive, instead of doing all that ducking and weaving and going through cloud formations.
That is a good point. But I wonder if one of the charms on Grimmauld Place might have been that you can't apparate on the grounds, kind of like Hogwarts. Sirius says in OotP that his father put all kinds of wards and spells around the house, and the Order puts on their own protections as well. So maybe apparation wasn't an option if its use was prevented at Grimmauld Place for security reasons.


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  #52  
Old June 9th, 2007, 8:16 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RemusLupinFan View Post
That is a good point. But I wonder if one of the charms on Grimmauld Place might have been that you can't apparate on the grounds, kind of like Hogwarts. Sirius says in OotP that his father put all kinds of wards and spells around the house, and the Order puts on their own protections as well. So maybe apparation wasn't an option if its use was prevented at Grimmauld Place for security reasons.
That's the confusing thing, because the twins are able to apparate inside 12 Grimmauld Place. It seems that the anti-apparition spell might only work on the boundaries of a building, but so long as your destination is within the walls then apparition will work. I'm wondering if this is how house-elves are able to apparate around, because they don't actually leave the house. Hogwarts seems to be different, because Dumbledore had to remove the anti-apparition charm on the Great Hall during HBP to allow apparating lessons to take place.


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  #53  
Old June 10th, 2007, 12:21 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Even though The only people we've heard of doing S.A.A is Harry, and Dumbledore, I am almost positive that other great wizards can do it also. Yes granted it may be a very powerful form of magic to be able to do this but it can be done... to those who believe that snape can't do it, i must say that you are wrong... if you read the book published by mugglenet.com itself snape is one of THE MOST POWERFUL wizards at this time, along with dumbledore (now dead) and Voldemort.


  #54  
Old June 10th, 2007, 12:26 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

I think side-along-apparation takes more concentration than normal. The first time Harry and Dumbledore had done it, Harry did not know how to apparate at all, so Dumbledore had to apparate two people at once. I think that doing so would take much more power than normal.

And Snape probably isn't jealous that Harry can side-along-apparate and he "can't"--it was Dumbledore who did the work, not Harry, who was just along for the ride. Whether Snape can take someone with him using side-along-apparation depends on how strong and powerful he is.


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  #55  
Old June 11th, 2007, 1:53 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

I agree that it would make sense that Side-Along Apparition would be somewhat more difficult than normal, but it can't be that difficult otherwise I think it would be unreasonable for the Ministry to put it in their big security measures posters that they potsed everywhere. And Snape's magical power is almost certainly above average.


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  #56  
Old June 11th, 2007, 1:57 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition. Harry can do it, Snape can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSleepyHead View Post
When are you actually referring to? Leaving Privet Drive, or Apparating at another moment/location? Also, I do not think that one can Apparate into 12 Grimmauld Place. Dumbledore said that most wizarding dwellings are guarded from unwanted Apparators, and I expect 12 Grimmauld Place's protection to be up there with Hogwarts, thus no Apparition into the building. Also, why would Snape be chosen to Apparate with Harry? Why not Lupin, Moody, etc. be chosen?

Exactly.
HBP, Will and Won't, Page 42, American, HBPROTECTING YOUR HOME AND FAMILY AGAINST DARK FORCES
3. Review the security arrangements around your house, making sure that all family members are aware of emergency measures such as Shield and Disillusionment Charms, and, in the case of underage family members, Side-Along-Apparition.

Now, why would the Ministry advise something that only the incredibly advanced can do? Actually, I was quite shocked that Harry was the only one to Side-Along-Apparate, considering all wizarding families received these pamphlets.

Also, Harry did nothing during the Side-Along-Apparition. He merely hang on to Dumbledore for dear life. Thus, Harry didn't use any skills/advanced magic: he used Dumbledore's skills and advanced magic. Now, Harry did use Side-Along-Apparition with Dumbledore, but anyone in his situation could have. He had to get Dumbledore back, he could not afford mistakes: thus, his concentration was so devoted to getting Dumbledore back to Hogsmeade that he was able to do it. Anyone could have done that if they were in that situation.

However, I still do not understand how one gathers that Snape cannot do it. We know he can Apparate, and I still have yet to see when Snape was supposed to use Side-Along-Apparition.
I think the Ministry advocating for side along apparition is just another reminder of the uselessness of the suggested ideas for people to protect themselves from Voldemort and his 'crew'. DD certainly pointed that out to Harry, who promptly agreed with him.

I am certainly in agreement that Harry definitely used a lot of concentration to take DD back with him. But, I would think it is a pointer to Harry's natural abilities. When it comes down to it, Harry pulls through.
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  #57  
Old June 11th, 2007, 2:24 am
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Well, I don't know about whether Snape can do it or not, but I do think that Side-Along Apparition must be even more difficult than regular Apparition. Regular Apparition itself is difficult and not to mention dangerous. In GoF, Mr. Weasley said, "You don't mess around with Apparition. There are plenty of adult wizards who don't bother with it. Prefer brooms -- slower, but must safer." and he was talking about someone just Apparating themselves. It just makes sense for Apparating someone else along with you to be twice as hard and twice as dangerous.

But lucky for Harry, he was able to do it, which really shows his potential. He usually doesn't pick up on things in class very quickly, but when it really matters and he really needs to do something, he's always able to.


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  #58  
Old June 18th, 2007, 6:48 am
matwizard  Undisclosed.gif matwizard is offline
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Quote:
Originaly posted by Sholeigh.
The advance guard not apparating with Harry has been discussed in detail in other places, and there's all sorts of arguments for why they didn't apparate. But I'm sure it just comes down to better storytelling to have Harry arrive in London by broom. Side-along apparition belongs in HBP where it is relevant to the ending. I think Snape had better things to do than escort Harry across the country. He wouldn't have been willing to do it without a direct order from Dumbledore, and it really wasn't necessary since many other Order members were eager to help fetch Harry. I don't think this proves Snape cannot side-along apparate.
Better things like what? Getting Harry to headquarters was top priority. That broom ride was dangerous. Moody had them zig-zaging across country, flying though clouds in close formation. Told Harry to keep flying if they all got killed, to meet the secondary guard. Voldemorts spies could have been waiting to pick them all off as they flew by. By the time it was over, Harry, who loved to fly, was longing for the Floo-network, and Tonks was screaming that they were half-frozen to their brooms.
Half the Order ether flew in or apparated just outside number four. A dozen wizards flying by broom over a muggle-inhabited area would have been much easier to detect, and much easier to expel Harry for then S.A.A. with a dozen wizards at fifteen with no lessons. The place is unplotable, but the Order walks in and out of it day and night. Clearly, you can apparate just outside of it. And Harry can call it on the Floo-network anytime. All they had to do was apparate Harry right outside number twelve, where they could show him that note. But they did it the hard way because they can’t S.A.A. And Snape, in case you forgot, was there that night for a meeting. There was no reason not to send him with the advance guard if he could S.A.A., but he can’t. Snape had NOTHING better to do. That would have given him great pleasure. Being able to tell Harry, "This gives me no pleasure Potter. I have so much better things to do with my time. But the Headmaster has given me the unpleasant task of getting your hyde to our secret headquarters. And I am the only one he trusts with jobs he is too busy for. So hold on tight to my arm Potter. And I Severus Snape, the only Order member capable of getting James Potter's untalented son to our secret headquarters will get you there in one piece." But thankfully, Snape did not get the satisfaction, because he can't S.A.A.
Quote:
Originaly posted by Anabel
I just read in OotP that Lupin told Harry flying on broomsticks is the only way to get him to Grimmauld Place, because the Floo is being watched and he's too young to Apparate! That confirms it, IMO - Jo didn't think of Side-Along Apparition until she was writing HBP!
I think it proves Lupin did not want to tell Harry no one in the Order could side-along-apparate. Or that Dumbledore could, but was keeping a distance from Harry.


  #59  
Old June 19th, 2007, 1:47 pm
Moldywart  Undisclosed.gif Moldywart is offline
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Is it possible that JKR only came up with S.A.A. for HBP because she needed a way to get DD back to Hogwarts in the end? She introduced something new at the beginning of the book only for it to be used in the end - classic storytelling technique.

S.A.A. can't be that complicated if Harry could do it. Remember, he had only actually apparated successfully one time before this.

And, this has been mentioned, but where does the topic creator come up with Harry besting Snape again? How does this have anything to do with Snape, and who's to say Snape can't do it? You could very easily say that he bested any character except for DD since he is the only one we've ever seen do that.

Also, someone mentioned that VM did S.A.A. with Belatrix in OOTP...when did this happen. He apparates into the ministry by himself, and I was under the impression he left by himself as well. Bellatrix is/was quite capable of apparating out herself.

What's more interesting about apparation is the volume of the pop or crack that each person produces when apparating. It seems that the more powerful the wizard, the less noise they make. DD barely makes a small pop, where as most lesser wizards make loud cracks.


  #60  
Old June 19th, 2007, 3:26 pm
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Re: Side-Along-Apparition: Who can do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moldywart View Post
Also, someone mentioned that VM did S.A.A. with Belatrix in OOTP...when did this happen. He apparates into the ministry by himself, and I was under the impression he left by himself as well. Bellatrix is/was quite capable of apparating out herself.
No, Voldemort takes Bella with him. Someone shouts that he saw it when the workers return to the Ministry:

"He was there!" shouted a scarlet robed man with a ponytail, who was pointing at the pile of golden rubble on the other side of the hall where Bella had lain trapped moments before. "I saw him, Mr. Fudge, I swear, it was You-Know-Who, he grabbed a woman and Disapparated!"
OotP, Chapter 36


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