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Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1



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  #1  
Old July 8th, 2007, 11:35 pm
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Discussion of the editorial Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1 by S.P. Sipal.


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  #2  
Old July 9th, 2007, 1:58 am
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Wow, this is an amazing editorial. I am not sure if Rowling consciously correlated her book with so many aspects of Egyptian mythology (and if she did, mad props), but I found this to be a very enjoyable read even outside the matters of Harry Potter.


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  #3  
Old July 9th, 2007, 2:59 am
bribe
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Brilliantly written editorial. Right back in Philosopher's Stone we are told that Bill Weasley works in Egypt. Thanks to this editorial I believe I now understand why JKR chose this specific country as the place where he worked. Remember too, that in Prisonor of Azkaban it is in Egypt we first learn that Scabbers is not what he seems.

You refer to the two guides the hero (Harry) has as being Ron and Hermione. Although this has certainly been true to date I wonder if, in Deathly Hallows, two other people will step into prominance. JKR once said that two people she had originally planned to live were going to die. What if these two people are Ron and Hermione? The two people who step in to replace them could be Ginny and Luna.

Ginny, Ron's sister, is a red-head who has a fiery temper and appears to be good at transfiguring people (Bat Bogey Hex). In some respects the Sun does this too. As or the wisdom of the Moon, Luna's name literally translates to moon. And Luna has already provided Harry with a great peice of wisdom. After Sirius dies it is Luna who makes Harry understand what Dumbledore has already told him - that those who we truely love never leave us and that one day we will see them again.

Could it happen that Ron and Hermione die; that Ginny and Luna become Harry's new companions until he himself dies; that then Harry goes through the underworld, meets all his friends (including Ron and Hermione) and then defeats Voldemort before returning to the world of the living (as the editorial states "making the choice between what is easy (staying with his friends and family) and what is right (returning to Ginny thus destroying Voldemort for ever)).

This is just my theory. Whatever happens we will know for sure in less than two weeks.


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Old July 9th, 2007, 3:43 am
Twycross  Male.gif Twycross is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

What a long editorial (I like 'em long). Very good. J.K would kill of Harry then bring him back. Then every one would be happy. It's almost a shame book seven's coming out. The theorys are getting very polished. Oh well. And Can't wait for part Two.


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  #5  
Old July 9th, 2007, 4:32 am
Ticci  Female.gif Ticci is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Jo did an amazing job putting it all into the wizarding world. She's a genius.


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  #6  
Old July 9th, 2007, 4:48 am
SPSipal  Undisclosed.gif SPSipal is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Onyma -- Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I find Egyptian mythology fascinating as well.

bribe -- Thanks for your feedback. About your theory re: Ginny and Luna -- you're absolutely right about Luna representing the moon and Ginny having sun characteristics, and maybe in DH they will provide more help to Harry in some ways than Ron and Hermione. However, personally I don't believe Ron and Hermione will die. It may just be that I can't see past my not wanting them to die. :-)
As you say, we'll know in less than 2 weeks!

Twycross -- I'm glad you like them long, because I have 2 more coming -- thought not quite as long as this one. But one thing I see I wasn't quite clear on in my wording in the editorial, is that even though I definitely believe Harry will have a death and resurrection experience, I don't see Harry literally dying. JKR has always been so careful to distinguish that someone who has truly died will not come back to life, and I don't think she'll break this for even Harry. Still, successfully navigating the Underworld to resurrection is the classic Hero's Journey, and I believe Harry will follow this path. Usually this can be worked by the hero choosing to go into the Underworld through a different method that doesn't require death as a physical payment, but rather a symbolic, or a spiritual transformation.

It's been a long time since I read the Pullman His Dark Materials series, so I may have some of the details wrong, but Lyra and Will are able to journey through the Underworld by using the tools they've been given to travel there as live beings rather than spirits. However, and this goes back to bribe's comments about Ron and Hermione possibly dying, while they are able to "free" the dead trapped in the Underworld, it's not to bring them back to a corporeal life, but rather to release them as spirits.

I don't think JKR will have anyone who has properly died coming back to life, but we'll see her version of what spiritual resurrection means. Just my opinion.

Ticci -- I have to absolutely agree. The more I read and analyze JKR's writing, the more amazed I become at her genius.



Last edited by SPSipal; July 9th, 2007 at 4:50 am.
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  #7  
Old July 9th, 2007, 5:40 am
hpboy13  Male.gif hpboy13 is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

That was an absolutely wonderful editorial (and I usually don't like these types of editorial which take other literature an dcompare it ot HP)!!! I think you may be on to something - the similarities are just too striking (though I think in some cases you tried a bit too hard to make a connection). I'm a proponent of the "Harry will go beyond the Veil and meet his parents and then return" theory, so I agree with much fo this editorial. Interesting thoguht abotut he portrait of his father/parents. Once again, great job!


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Old July 9th, 2007, 6:51 am
16ftGrawp  Male.gif 16ftGrawp is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

I've only read the first part of it, right before "hold up" and I already feel like I know the ending of Harry Potter! Well, off to read the rest!


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Old July 9th, 2007, 8:52 am
aggiefan1206  Female.gif aggiefan1206 is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

First of all i would like to say that this is one of the best editorials i have ever read! It is well developed and the support used clearly has very strong parrallels. I also think that Harry will live at the end but not without experiencing a few things. Like allt he connections that were drawn! I also agree witht he whole he will have to chose to live again with Ginnys mention. Besides Voldmort being defeated i want Ginn and Harry back togather. Anyways love this thoery love the thought put into it, and the development!


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  #10  
Old July 9th, 2007, 3:32 pm
Nibor7301  Undisclosed.gif Nibor7301 is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

This is a very interesting editorial and I enjoyed reading it. But I'd just like to point something out.
The Serpent that attacked Re's boat every night, was associated with Seth, but not in the way you seem to think. At least at some point in the history of Egypt, it was believed that it was Seth's job to protect Re from the serpent Apep.
And one more thing,
In fact, Seth was not always considered an Evil god. At one point, Seth was protector of Lower Egypt and Horus of Upper Egypt. I believe the priests of Horus might have created the myth of Seth killing Osiris, cutting him to pieces and being defeated by Horus (etcetera), in order to gain greater importance. Then again, I might be wrong.


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  #11  
Old July 9th, 2007, 3:48 pm
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nibor7301 View Post
This is a very interesting editorial and I enjoyed reading it. But I'd just like to point something out.
The Serpent that attacked Re's boat every night, was associated with Seth, but not in the way you seem to think. At least at some point in the history of Egypt, it was believed that it was Seth's job to protect Re from the serpent Apep.
And one more thing,
In fact, Seth was not always considered an Evil god. At one point, Seth was protector of Lower Egypt and Horus of Upper Egypt. I believe the priests of Horus might have created the myth of Seth killing Osiris, cutting him to pieces and being defeated by Horus (etcetera), in order to gain greater importance. Then again, I might be wrong.
Hmmm... reminiscent of Snape.


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  #12  
Old July 9th, 2007, 3:49 pm
Kgaladriel  Female.gif Kgaladriel is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

Hi Susan,

thank you for bringing up a very detailed and thoroughly researched editorial on the Egyptian Myths and their obvious or, for some, not so obvious connection to the HP world.

Quote:
Onyma -- Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. I find Egyptian mythology fascinating as well.
Two years ago, just prior to the publication of HP 6, I wrote a long editorial about Harry Potter and the ancient Egyptian Mysteries. Through the fascinating Egyptian myths, I came very close to predict the reason why Voldemort did not die when the curse destined to finish off Harry backfired on him, namely the making of his Horcruxes.

Anyone interested in reading what I wrote is welcome to get it per e-mail: (KarimaB at gmx dot de)

For whatever reason the editorial didn't get posted here on MuggleNet but today I was very pleased to see that someone did the research and the work necessary to compare the two worlds.

I too believe that Harry in book 7 will visit some kind of Underworld and that he will meet all his beloved dead. I do certainly hope that Harry's "death" won't be a physical one but rather a symbolic one.

I also think that death will come back to haunt Voldemort and will get him in the end.

Harry like Horus will find his lost "Eye", the one injured in the battle with Seth the evil Serpent. The magician Thoth (Dumbledore in Harry's case) helped Horus find his lost eye in the Underworld and mended it for him. After that Horus could see through the new found protective magical eye how to defeat his enemy Seth, who killed his father Osiris. The "Eye of Horus" is a well known protective magical symbol in the Egyptian mythology...
I think for Harry the Eye might be his mother Lily and her mysterious magical powers that according to Slugghorn must have been way beyond the ordinary. After all Lily defeated Voldemort once...

I am looking forward to your next editorial :-).

Love and keep the great work up,

Karima



Last edited by Kgaladriel; July 9th, 2007 at 3:53 pm.
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  #13  
Old July 9th, 2007, 3:54 pm
SPSipal  Undisclosed.gif SPSipal is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

hpboy13 -- Thank you for your comments. And you're right, as I noted, some of the connections are stretching a bit. But they're fun. :-)

16ftGrawp -- Hope you enjoyed the rest.

aggiefan1206 -- Yes, I want to see Ginny and Harry back together as well, and I definitely think we will. In fact, I think we'll see them together before we know we're seeing them together as I think Ginny will find a way to aide Harry without his knowledge.

Nibor7301 -- You're right and I'm right, too. You'll note that I said it was Apep who attacked Re's bark every night, but that Seth is associated with Apep. One of the complexities in dealing with Egyptian mythology is that there is no one set version of the stories, as I noted in my editorial. These myths were living, breathing stories developed and changed as situations changed over thousands of years. Yes, Seth was definitely associated as a helper to Re, fighting off Apep every night through his journey in the Underworld. But as the popularity of the Horus/Osiris/Isis myth grew, Seth became more and more demonized until he was considered the god of darkness, storms, and chaos as well. In this myth of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, which I delve into more in part 2, Seth plays the antagonistic, evil role. It was in this later development that Seth often became equated with Apep. Check out http://touregypt.net/godsofegypt/set.htm and http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/apep.htm.

Onyma -- Snape is a tricky one to pin down, as always. He's definitely got a bit of Seth, but I think he's also a bit of Anubis.

Kgaladriel -- I'm sorry your editorial didn't get posted. I'd love to read it if you'd send it to my e-mail listed in the bio. I too have been writing and talking about the Egyptian myths in HP for a while. I discussed the Chamber of Thoth in an editorial in The Plot Thickens in 2004, and in 2005 presented a workshop on Egyptian myths at the Witching Hour conference. I love your ideas about the Eye of Horus. I think the Eye will very much play a part, and I discuss it in the third part of this series. However, I also discussed the Eye quite a bit in my previous editorial on Mugglenet, One Last Memory, which is listed in the Featured Editorial Archive. Basically, I think Snape played the role of Thoth in regard to the Eye by healing Harry's wound that night at Godric's Hollow, in a scene very similar to how he healed Draco's sectumsempra wound. But there's a lot more detail, of course, with the editorial. Thanks for your comments! :-)


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  #14  
Old July 9th, 2007, 8:29 pm
zachy  Female.gif zachy is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

great editorial
but
....was it FATE? or...what? is jk secretely following egyptian myth or...is some supernatural power controlling her pen?

i don't know


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  #15  
Old July 10th, 2007, 5:01 am
Shewoman  Female.gif Shewoman is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

That was a terrific editorial. I studied a lot of that material years and years (and years) ago and never made all those connections. You gave us a lot of information without seeming to lecture. It was fascinating and well written (not a surprise, seeing as it's you.) Looking forward to the next installments!


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  #16  
Old July 10th, 2007, 2:39 pm
Fool  Male.gif Fool is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

This was such a well written editorial that I felt obligated to stop reading upon reaching the Book 7 prediction due to it's no-doubt accurate portrayal of what will occur. I've practically cut myself off from the internet and TV in order to avoid spoilers (especially as the date gets closer) and this editorial was so good that it nearly ruined everything! Curse you SP Sipal. Seriously. As soon as I figure out how to attach a curse to a post you're dead meat.


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  #17  
Old July 10th, 2007, 2:51 pm
SPSipal  Undisclosed.gif SPSipal is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

DruidMorgana -- Thanks for sharing that information on Anubis. That's interesting about him being called the keeper of the Veil, because (like many others) I do believe Sirius will help guide Harry through the Underworld in DH.

zachy -- Most writers I know believe in some form of Muse. I can't speak for JKR, but for me, Divine inspiration definitely plays a part. However, I usually recognize where the inspiration is coming from and know how to channel it. :-)

Hi Shewoman -- great to "see" you again! Thanks for your comments. Part 2 should be posting in the next few days, I hope. Personally, I like the third part the best where I analyze that spine symbol in relation to Egyptian myths and beliefs. Will look forward to hearing what you think!

Fool -- LOL! Well, I better go look up some Egyptian amulets, then. Just don't send the Evil Eye my way! I appreciate your comments, but do keep in mind I'm just speculating with all the rest. There's so many ways JKR can take off with these myths, even if she's using them, that divination, as always, remains such a wooly subject. :-)


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  #18  
Old July 11th, 2007, 6:11 pm
subtlepotions  Female.gif subtlepotions is offline
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

wow wow wow!!! S.P. Sipal you've done it again! i am so amazed w/ this editorial. amazing connections. I had a thought the minute I saw this....

quote - The fifth gate. 'He who lives on snakes' is the name of the keeper of the fifth gate; 'Fiery' is the name of him who guards it; 'Hippopotamus-faced, raging of power' is the name of him who makes report in it. - end quote

in reference to the fifth book, perhaps the 'hippo-faced, raging of power' is Umbridge. raging, out of control powertrip watching Harry's every move. can't wait till the 21st!!


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Old July 24th, 2007, 4:31 pm
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Re: Egyptian Myths in Harry Potter, Part 1

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