Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

[SageThyme]

Welcome to the post-DH discussion of Slytherin House. Previous discussion without spoilers can be found here: Slytherin House : Group Character Analysis

Is there a predominant quality that a Slytherin must have in order to be a Slytherin?

Do you feel that Phineas' statement applies to all Slytherins? If yes, then what are the implications of it being true? If no, then why to you feel Phineas doesn't know what constitutes a Slytherin and their choices?

What is it about the Slytherin house that isolates it from the other houses?

What are some of the decisions that students from other houses have made that Slytherins would decide differently?

What are the significance of Water and the Snake to Slytherin?

What is the significance of JKR splitting the students into classes and why did she make Slytherin House from a literary perspective?

What new thoughts do you have on Slytherin post DH?

[Moriath]

I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.

[moe_shalash]

Originally Posted by Madron

I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.

Yes and JK always says that not all Slytherin's are evil. they seem'd pretty evil to me not that not even one student fought, i was really hoping for Slytherin to step up

[glorygirl]

I too was also disappointed that all of the Slytherins students left Hogwarts. It's always been that the Houses need to work together to get rid of evil and the fact that JKR chickened out and had them leave when there was room for character development (Nott could see the thestrals and did not hang out in gangs, Zabini's potential was recognized by Slughorn) and instead she just wussed out. Even when you read the epilogue it seems that they are prejudice against Slytherins and history will repeat itself.

On a side note, I don't think students should be sorted by personality anymore but randomly and no more house tables.

[smartypants]

It doesn't say all Slytherins of age actually ended up fighting for Voldemort. It just says they all left, which is partly because they all was run out, because the rest couldn't trust them.

Many did fight for Voldemort, and they did it because they thought he would win. Slytherins are egoistic, and probably oftenintuitive-judgers. Intuitive judgers often have an idea of how the world should work, and are sometimes happy to walk over bodies to make sure the world works as it "should".

Also, I think the hat sorts people after where they would be happy. And when a house gets dominated by people who are "blood-racists", it probably wouldn't put many mudbloods or generally tolerant people in the house.

[DarkDaysAhead]

Originally Posted by Madron

I was disappointed that Slytherin House was singled out as evil. There was no Slytherin banner in the Room of Requirement and Slytherins did not join the battle against Voldemort. It seemed that the wizarding world is not divided into Death Eaters and Order members but good people and Slytherins. Only Slughorn fought Voldemort, so his role may have been redeeming for Slytherin House.

I agree entirely. I was very disappointed to read that, when it was time to evacuate the school, the entire Slytherin house had left. Given JK's stance on the issue (good vs. bad, choices, etc.), I figured she'd stress the fact that not all Slytherins are bad but we saw so few good Slytherins that I'm afraid she may have failed.

[Lunatic]

You know, all "good" Slytherins, i.e. Snape, Andromeda Tonks, Slughorn and eventually Draco have had experinces that seriously challenge the dominant Slytherin mindset. The young set, sheltered by Hogwarts, had little opportunity to experince these things. Perhaps this is the difference and why they are who they are? Perhaps seeing a deatheater parent or a friend from another house dead or injured, might be enough to make a difference. They would still be cunning people regardless.

All the Best,

Lunatic

[guad]

I agree with the others being disappointed by the Slytherin actuation in DH.

Room of Requirement: Nobody there. Meaning that nobody has fought against Voldemorts system.

Final battle: They all leave. Does this mean that they are all DE kids? That all agree with Voldemorts regime? That they are all cowards?
It's a bit sad that we get that message by JKR given that allthrough the books we had the big Unity message.

And besides, it's not realistic. I do not think that all Slytherins are pureblood supremacists and Voldemort followers. I'm sure we can find some brave, cunning, smart Slytherin students who actually disagree with Voldemort. Sadly in the last book, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Slytherins who help: Andromeda Black-Tonks. Unfortunately we never get explicitly told that she is a Slytherin, and a random reader might not spot it.

Slughorn: Reluctantly. He has to be told off by McGonnagal.

Snape: He has his own reasons for helping, which are not house character related, so that doesn't really count in the Slytherin connection.

Narcissa: Similar to Snape, she helps Harry because she wants to see her son. (it is a bit Slytherin to do things for own goals though).

Regulus: Too a Slytherin, who switched sides. Probably the best one.

Phineas: Yes he helps too.

So it's sad that the best Slytherins are actually either corpses in a cave or dead headmasters in a portrait.


Edit: I also feel that a rushed message in the epilogue (by Harry to Albus, that all houses are great) is actually not enough to change that bad feeling one gets from Slytherin in Hogwarts.

[Tenshi]

I can't complain about Slytherin in DH. They actually reacted like I expected. But I thought that the fact that they led out Slytherin students as well to protect them from Voldemort, showed that the other houses cared for the safety of the Slytherins. I didn't expect them to join the fight against Voldemort, also not disturbing the others either.

[purplehawk]

Originally Posted by TENSHI

I can't complain about Slytherin in DH. They actually reacted like I expected. But I thought that the fact that they led out Slytherin students as well to protect them from Voldemort, showed that the other houses cared for the safety of the Slytherins. I didn't expect them to join the fight against Voldemort, also not disturbing the others either.

Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?

The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by purplehawk

Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?

I'm still busy with re-reading, but the only thing I remember is that Pansy wanted to hand out Harry to Voldemort and that Draco, Goyle and Crabbe came back. Like Harry said, Voldemort wouldn't have cared who he killed in the end even if it were DE kids.

The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.

Ah Reggie. I fully agree. He showed bravery in the book.

And Andromeda has to be Slytherin and Sirius was the first Black to be sorted into another house.

[horcrux4]

I was sorry that Slytherin didn't produce anyone among the students who was willing to stand up to Voldemort. I thought that the Sorting Hat's warning that the houses should unite would lead to a real 4-house unity in the end but I was disappointed. I can understand that the kids with DE parents would not want to be on the opposite side to their parents, especially if that would get their parents into trouble, but surely that doesn't apply to all Slytherins? To have only Slughorn, Andromeda Tonks and Regulus Black as good Slytherins is rather sad.

[wickedwickedboy]

I know this is in flagrant contrast to my other posts which support people standing up for good causes, but I have to say I thought the Slytherin reaction was Wicked! I loved it. I was like, you go guys!! They stuck to their beliefs (or what ever name u want to put on it) in the face of 3/4 of the student body and all of the professors (even their head of house in pajamas) against them. I don't know why, but the moment was way cool to me, I loved it and felt like they were brilliant. It was like a major rebel effect - - you gotta love it - -at least if you are me you do.

[General_Ridley]

Slytherins are brave, but not stupid about it. Any Slytherin child would have had the brains to see what would happen to them if they openly opposed the Dark Lord: death, and quick. Voldemort would have punished these traitors more severely than any others, so rather than fight Voldemort, they refused to hold up the other Houses.

Slytherin House played its part. They did not prevent the other Houses from doing what must be done, and they survived. In our own proud way, that's how we do interhouse unity in Slytherin House: by letting you get on with what you must do. And by surviving, we maintain our life, our individuality which is so predominant among our House.

[Moriath]

Originally Posted by guad

I agree with the others being disappointed by the Slytherin actuation in DH.

Room of Requirement: Nobody there. Meaning that nobody has fought against Voldemorts system.

Final battle: They all leave. Does this mean that they are all DE kids? That all agree with Voldemorts regime? That they are all cowards?
It's a bit sad that we get that message by JKR given that allthrough the books we had the big Unity message.

And besides, it's not realistic. I do not think that all Slytherins are pureblood supremacists and Voldemort followers. I'm sure we can find some brave, cunning, smart Slytherin students who actually disagree with Voldemort. Sadly in the last book, this doesn't seem to be the case.

Slytherins who help: Andromeda Black-Tonks. Unfortunately we never get explicitly told that she is a Slytherin, and a random reader might not spot it.

Slughorn: Reluctantly. He has to be told off by McGonnagal.

Snape: He has his own reasons for helping, which are not house character related, so that doesn't really count in the Slytherin connection.

Narcissa: Similar to Snape, she helps Harry because she wants to see her son. (it is a bit Slytherin to do things for own goals though).

Regulus: Too a Slytherin, who switched sides. Probably the best one.

Phineas: Yes he helps too.

So it's sad that the best Slytherins are actually either corpses in a cave or dead headmasters in a portrait.


Edit: I also feel that a rushed message in the epilogue (by Harry to Albus, that all houses are great) is actually not enough to change that bad feeling one gets from Slytherin in Hogwarts.

Exactly, it conveys a very mixed message. We are constantly confronted with how very bad Slytherin House is in general. None of the Malfoys showed a true change of mind and heart, Regulus did something brave and noble but he was a Death Eater before, the Slytherin children in Harry's year are all described as ugly and/or nasty throughout the series and Slytherin is usually the table that sneers and doesn't clap when bravery comes from another House, ...and here Harry tells his son in the epilogue that it does not matter. I was thoroughly confused.

[eternitygoddess]

I don't like how she portrayed as ALL Slytherins unwilling to fight.

It casts a bad light on the house.

I don't think Slytherin qualities, cunning and ambition, are necessarily bad.

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by Madron

Exactly, it conveys a very mixed message. We are constantly confronted with how very bad Slytherin House is in general. None of the Malfoys showed a true change of mind and heart, Regulus did something brave and noble but he was a Death Eater before, the Slytherin children in Harry's year are all described as ugly and/or nasty throughout the series and Slytherin is usually the table that sneers and doesn't clap when bravery comes from another House, ...and here Harry tells his son in the epilogue that it does not matter. I was thoroughly confused.

Well JKR once said that not all of those in Slytherin were evil, bad, ect. I think that the point Harry was making is that it is not the house that makes you, but rather you make the house. In other words, no matter what house you are in, you determine who you will be and can still be a great person.

We never had any examples of this and I am sure Harry didn't want Albus to turn out like Snape and only come to grips with some form of bravery at death. That is why I concluded he must mean what I said above.

"You'll make your real friends, those cunning folk use any means to achieve their ends." Loyalty among them - they stick together and are cunning and thus achieve their ends - driven, slick and they get the job done.

I have to say I like um.

[Emperor_Gestahl]

Originally Posted by purplehawk

Didn't most of the Slytherins join forces with Voldemort in the final battle at Hogwarts? Aberforth had a point when he said some of them should have been held as hostages. I would never have condoned doing so, but at the same time why give them safe passage out of the castle when they're only going to swell Voldemort's ranks?

The only Slytherin in the book that really impressed me was Regulus Black. I can give a half-hearted nod to Slughorn and Phineas. I don't think Andromeda was a Slytherin to be honest: she and Sirius were too close.

We never heard anything about that, and the only one with a Death Eater as parent is Theodore Nott..

[Ifink2much]

It was just typical slytherin behaviour.Look after yourself and do what you need to get by i.e be completly selfish.I suppose if you wanted to say the slytherins weren't evil you could say they didn't did go an join the death easters,but they showed their true clours 'we're not on either side,we're on our own side!'.Even if they'r not evil there's very little good in them.

[Tenshi]

Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl

We never heard anything about that, and the only one with a Death Eater as parent is Theodore Nott..

There are more. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle for example.

Even if some student's parents are not directly DEs, they still could support Voldemort.