Ronald Bilius Weasley: Character Analysis

[wickedwickedboy]

- I can't believe I mixed up the movie with the book - I don't like the movies much, so I have pretty much wiped them from my mind (except the hot bella, tonks and hermione). But the points you added amount to the same thing - the overall loyalty was not lost. I agree that the issue of trust interlaces with loyalty in some respects and the whole feeling of betrayal. But I just recall that I never got the feeling that loyalty was really lost between the friends despite their disagreement in this portion of the story. Course now that you remind me I am mixing the book and movie, I should likely read it again to be certain, .

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

- I can't believe I mixed up the movie with the book - I don't like the movies much, so I have pretty much wiped them from my mind (except the hot bella, tonks and hermione). But the points you added amount to the same thing - the overall loyalty was not lost. I agree that the issue of trust interlaces with loyalty in some respects and the whole feeling of betrayal. But I just recall that I never got the feeling that loyalty was really lost between the friends despite their disagreement in this portion of the story. Course now that you remind me I am mixing the book and movie, I should likely read it again to be certain, .

Well, the fight in GOF was something that I thought Kloves actually did a good job with. He did make some changes from the book, but I felt it was very consistent - particularly with the character development and how Harry and Ron reacted and behaved. The whole thing with the dragons is something that I could see Ron doing if he had found out about them in advance - he would want Harry to know and I can see where he would be worried that Harry wouldn't listen to him because of the fight. I can see Ron over-thinking the whole thing and coming up with a plan like that. And the apology was brilliant - Jo could have written that herself.

So - even though you got the two mixed up - you are right about the fight overall. I saw it as a situation where they both realized their mistakes the next day. Harry got up the next morning determined to tell Ron everything and make him listen - which was what Ron had wanted him to do the night before. Hermione reveals that - by the next morning - Ron didn't really believe that Harry had entered his own name. So I would say the same for Ron - he got up the next morning and realized that Harry wouldn't lie to him. But that's where pride got in the way - neither of them really knew how to fix it and neither was willing to be the one to step forward. By the next day, I think the fight was less about Harry's name coming out of the goblet than it was about what they had said to each other the night before - which came back to trust. Harry was more upset by the fact that Ron though he would lie and Ron was more upset by the fact that Harry had basically said he was stupid. In the end, Ron decides to be the one to step forward after he realizes how dangerous the tournament really is - seeing the dragons drove it home for him. He couldn't let Harry go through that alone and that enabled him to be able to get past his pride and make the first move.

But I always felt it said a lot about Ron's character that - in spite of being hurt and angry because of the fight and what was said - he never joined in with the other students who were mocking Harry and insulting him - he still told Harry about the detention so he wouldn't get into trouble with Snape - and even when Harry completely lost it and threw the badge at his head, he didn't retaliate. There was a line that Ron would not cross no matter how angry he was.

[leah49]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

I would only agree in the sense that Ron felt Harry was not being honest with him. However, not sharing a secret is more an issue of trust than loyalty in my judgment. I felt like Ron thought Harry didn't trust him enough to tell him the truth. But it wasn't so much a betrayal; Harry made it obvious that he still wished to be friends and Ron knew that. In the midst of their argument, Ron remained loyal to Harry as a friend, he arranged to have him told and then told him that Charlie wanted to see him. So I think it was just Ron feeling wronged because he felt Harry didn't trust him enough to tell him the truth.

I get what you're saying and I agree. I look at loyalty and trust being part of each other, so Ron thought Harry didn't trust him, he thought he wasn't being loyal to him.
Basically, what I'm saying is Ron thought if Harry wanted to be a true friend he would have told Ron what he was doing.

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

Well, the fight in GOF was something that I thought Kloves actually did a good job with. He did make some changes from the book, but I felt it was very consistent - particularly with the character development and how Harry and Ron reacted and behaved. The whole thing with the dragons is something that I could see Ron doing if he had found out about them in advance - he would want Harry to know and I can see where he would be worried that Harry wouldn't listen to him because of the fight. I can see Ron over-thinking the whole thing and coming up with a plan like that. And the apology was brilliant - Jo could have written that herself.

So - even though you got the two mixed up - you are right about the fight overall. I saw it as a situation where they both realized their mistakes the next day. Harry got up the next morning determined to tell Ron everything and make him listen - which was what Ron had wanted him to do the night before. Hermione reveals that - by the next morning - Ron didn't really believe that Harry had entered his own name. So I would say the same for Ron - he got up the next morning and realized that Harry wouldn't lie to him. But that's where pride got in the way - neither of them really knew how to fix it and neither was willing to be the one to step forward. By the next day, I think the fight was less about Harry's name coming out of the goblet than it was about what they had said to each other the night before - which came back to trust. Harry was more upset by the fact that Ron though he would lie and Ron was more upset by the fact that Harry had basically said he was stupid. In the end, Ron decides to be the one to step forward after he realizes how dangerous the tournament really is - seeing the dragons drove it home for him. He couldn't let Harry go through that alone and that enabled him to be able to get past his pride and make the first move.

But I always felt it said a lot about Ron's character that - in spite of being hurt and angry because of the fight and what was said - he never joined in with the other students who were mocking Harry and insulting him - he still told Harry about the detention so he wouldn't get into trouble with Snape - and even when Harry completely lost it and threw the badge at his head, he didn't retaliate. There was a line that Ron would not cross no matter how angry he was.

I agree. I think Ron actually had a super strong character; back in the day I used to argue that he was terribly important as a friend to Harry, not merely because they trust each other and were loyal, but because of Ron's fortitude and logic. Ron didn't let the odd illogical comment fly - either from Harry or Hermione. People argued against that, but I still stand by it; Ron sometimes with just a look or gesture - a noise or actual words would respond whenever someone in the trio (or Neville/Luna) said something that had me seeing flaws in the statement. It was kind of cool because JKR was letting us know through Ron that she saw them too. But the thing with Ron was that he was so fun loving and often playful that his remarks or other signals at times would escape notice.

On the other hand, Ron too could get something nonsensical in his head and it might take him a while to let go of the thought. In a way it contrasted to his other trait I mentioned above because he himself was being illogical at those times. But I just put it down to his youth because that was mainly in the first few of books and not terribly often.

The one little trauma with Ron I didn't really understand was the Quidditch fiasco. He really was a talented player and I couldn't understand why he became so down in the dumps when he was in a valley. That happens to the best of Althletes and you just have to play through and take the boos. Which is what he ended up doing, but JKR I thought kind of overplayed that a bit. However, it is anothr thing I likely need to re-read, it has been a while, but that was the impression I was left with. It seemed more contrived merely so that we could see the supposed result of the FF Potion.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

I agree. I think Ron actually had a super strong character; back in the day I used to argue that he was terribly important as a friend to Harry, not merely because they trust each other and were loyal, but because of Ron's fortitude and logic. Ron didn't let the odd illogical comment fly - either from Harry or Hermione. People argued against that, but I still stand by it; Ron sometimes with just a look or gesture - a noise or actual words would respond whenever someone in the trio (or Neville/Luna) said something that had me seeing flaws in the statement. It was kind of cool because JKR was letting us know through Ron that she saw them too. But the thing with Ron was that he was so fun loving and often playful that his remarks or other signals at times would escape notice.

On the other hand, Ron too could get something nonsensical in his head and it might take him a while to let go of the thought. In a way it contrasted to his other trait I mentioned above because he himself was being illogical at those times. But I just put it down to his youth because that was mainly in the first few of books and not terribly often.

Agreed.

The one little trauma with Ron I didn't really understand was the Quidditch fiasco. He really was a talented player and I couldn't understand why he became so down in the dumps when he was in a valley. That happens to the best of Althletes and you just have to play through and take the boos. Which is what he ended up doing, but JKR I thought kind of overplayed that a bit. However, it is anothr thing I likely need to re-read, it has been a while, but that was the impression I was left with. It seemed more contrived merely so that we could see the supposed result of the FF Potion.

Well, this actually started in OOTP. Ron did okay practicing with Harry, but when he got on the field with the whole team - particularly Fred and George - his insecurities came out full force and that affected how he played. One thing that stood out to me was how Fred and George's teasing was so detrimental to Ron. I don't think they intended it to be that way, but Ron was so insecure and he really worried about what the twins thought of him so that was the result. On top of that was the taunts by the Slytherins. Ron just didn't deal with that kind of thing well at all because he was so insecure. And the more he worried about it, the worse he played. I don't think Fred and George ever really understood how badly all that affected Ron's confidence - I think it's clear that they didn't intend to hurt his feelings because they can't bring themselves to tease him when he's really upset. Hermione pointed that out in OOTP after Fred and George left when she told Harry that she thought Ron might do better with them gone - and she was right.

However, you bring up a good point there because he does have that big confidence boost with Quidditch in OOTP - and he did it completely on his own there. So what happened between that and HBP? Ron does take a step backward there in regards to Quidditch. He's right back to where he was when he first joined the team in OOTP. He's inconsistent and, the more trouble he has, the worse it gets because his confidence sinks lower and lower.

I think this was due - at least in part - to Ginny being on the team. In HBP, Ginny starts coming into her own. We see that begin in OOTP, but the twins were still around for most of the book so it didn't stand out quite as much. In HBP, we see that Ginny has a lot in common with the twins - including teasing Ron.

I think this was the one thing that disappointed me in HBP - everybody is suddenly teasing Ron. Before, it was really just the twins giving him a hard time over everything. In HBP, it's everybody. Ginny sets out to deliberately humiliate him in front of Fleur - making him spill gravy, tripping him, etc... Really, Ginny was even worse than the twins in a lot of ways - she was more aggressive. Now, I can understand that to some extent - Ginny was the "baby sister" and this was when she openly started rebelling against that image. She was tired of her brothers being so overprotective and she fought back. But Harry and Hermione joined in - and that just didn't quite fit. They know how insecure Ron is. They know that he doesn't react well to being teased like that. They know that it sends what little confidence he has managed to build up right into the toilet. Hermione was the one who pointed out how detrimental Fred and George's teasing had been to Ron's confidence in OOTP. So why were Harry and Hermione suddenly joining in with teasing Ron?

For the purposes of the story, that was what caused Ron's confidence to drop. And I can see why Jo wanted to reiterate that aspect of Ron's personality - she wanted to emphasize how insecure he was and how susceptible he was to negative influence like that - and that is significant in DH with the whole situation with the locket. But it didn't quite fit well in HBP because Harry and Hermione should have known better than to tease Ron like that.

[snugglepot]

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I saw it as a situation where they both realized their mistakes the next day. Harry got up the next morning determined to tell Ron everything and make him listen - which was what Ron had wanted him to do the night before. Hermione reveals that - by the next morning - Ron didn't really believe that Harry had entered his own name. So I would say the same for Ron - he got up the next morning and realized that Harry wouldn't lie to him. But that's where pride got in the way

We also have to remember that the next morning before they could meet and talk the whole thing through, something (or, rather, someone) got in the way and made things worse.
HERMIONE told Harry that Ron was jealous and that made Harry annoyed with Ron all over again. After she said that, Harry didn't want to find Ron and make up.
I think we agree that Ron wasn't jealous of Harry's name coming out of the Goblet, but the thought that Harry didn't include him in any plot to get past the age-line. It was about lack of trust, not jealousy.
The way I see it, Hermione made the argument even worse with her false interpretation of Ron's feelings. If Harry had not met Hermione on that fateful morning, and found Ron first, I am sure the fight would have been ended immediatly with both boys regretting what they had said the previous evening.
The whole thing was, no doubt, a plot device, introduced by JKR, to keep the fight going until the first task.

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

Well, this actually started in OOTP. Ron did okay practicing with Harry, but when he got on the field with the whole team - particularly Fred and George - his insecurities came out full force and that affected how he played. One thing that stood out to me was how Fred and George's teasing was so detrimental to Ron. I don't think they intended it to be that way, but Ron was so insecure and he really worried about what the twins thought of him so that was the result. On top of that was the taunts by the Slytherins. Ron just didn't deal with that kind of thing well at all because he was so insecure. And the more he worried about it, the worse he played. I don't think Fred and George ever really understood how badly all that affected Ron's confidence - I think it's clear that they didn't intend to hurt his feelings because they can't bring themselves to tease him when he's really upset. Hermione pointed that out in OOTP after Fred and George left when she told Harry that she thought Ron might do better with them gone - and she was right.

However, you bring up a good point there because he does have that big confidence boost with Quidditch in OOTP - and he did it completely on his own there. So what happened between that and HBP? Ron does take a step backward there in regards to Quidditch. He's right back to where he was when he first joined the team in OOTP. He's inconsistent and, the more trouble he has, the worse it gets because his confidence sinks lower and lower.

I think this was due - at least in part - to Ginny being on the team. In HBP, Ginny starts coming into her own. We see that begin in OOTP, but the twins were still around for most of the book so it didn't stand out quite as much. In HBP, we see that Ginny has a lot in common with the twins - including teasing Ron.

I think this was the one thing that disappointed me in HBP - everybody is suddenly teasing Ron. Before, it was really just the twins giving him a hard time over everything. In HBP, it's everybody. Ginny sets out to deliberately humiliate him in front of Fleur - making him spill gravy, tripping him, etc... Really, Ginny was even worse than the twins in a lot of ways - she was more aggressive. Now, I can understand that to some extent - Ginny was the "baby sister" and this was when she openly started rebelling against that image. She was tired of her brothers being so overprotective and she fought back. But Harry and Hermione joined in - and that just didn't quite fit. They know how insecure Ron is. They know that he doesn't react well to being teased like that. They know that it sends what little confidence he has managed to build up right into the toilet. Hermione was the one who pointed out how detrimental Fred and George's teasing had been to Ron's confidence in OOTP. So why were Harry and Hermione suddenly joining in with teasing Ron?

For the purposes of the story, that was what caused Ron's confidence to drop. And I can see why Jo wanted to reiterate that aspect of Ron's personality - she wanted to emphasize how insecure he was and how susceptible he was to negative influence like that - and that is significant in DH with the whole situation with the locket. But it didn't quite fit well in HBP because Harry and Hermione should have known better than to tease Ron like that.

Ah, very good analysis. I hadn't really noted it in that light particularly. But you have recalled all of that to memory and I agree.

Now on the one hand, guys do tease one another, even joining in with others to tease their friends - but Hermione introduces a kind of different element to the mix I have never experienced. I can totally see Ron becoming more insecure over that though and I did notice Ginny's attitude throughout (which is why back in the day I felt she was too much of a screamer for Harry, but she calmed, .) That does make more sense, and I can see it affecting Ron in many areas of his life even Quidditch. I agree it was a bit out of character for Harry and Ron under the circumstances, but reading it as you have it above, I would say it was more a plot device than anything else. I suppose JKR wanted it to be shown that Ron's insecurity could raise its head even after he'd presumably overcome the problem in a certain fashion.

In reality I wish she left the whole Ron abandoning thing out and had him face his demons another way. His absence really added to the longitude of that portion, at least for me. I grew very weary reading that too long of a bit. I did appreciate the way she had him return and the reunion, and perhaps she could have done it but made his absence a bit shorter. But I am crying over spilled milk, so I'll abandon the thought.

[wingardium713]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

However, you bring up a good point there because he does have that big confidence boost with Quidditch in OOTP - and he did it completely on his own there. So what happened between that and HBP? Ron does take a step backward there in regards to Quidditch. He's right back to where he was when he first joined the team in OOTP. He's inconsistent and, the more trouble he has, the worse it gets because his confidence sinks lower and lower.

I think his confidence starts taking a dive when he's not invited into the Slug Club. He doesn't even get noticed by Slug. Even later in the book, Slug does not remember his name. Meanwhile, his best friend, his romantic interest, his romantic/sports rival (McLaggen) and even his little sister get invited to join. He clearly seems very annoyed/upset by this. He is the only one left out. It hits straight to his insecurity about not being "good enough".

Then, his little sister points out that he's the only person who hasn't snogged anybody and that his romantic interest snogged the guy he's been afraid of for years (afraid that Krum's the one that Hermione loves). The next day, Ron can't save a single goal.

Unlike the in OoTP, Ron isn't just scared out of his wits. He's also very aggressive. His insecurity has blended with anger and it's a bit of a toxic mix. I think most of the anger is self-directed. He hates himself for being "pathetic" (not good enough, can't get noticed, can't get a girl, can't get the girl he wants) and he takes it out on others. Though, he does seem angry with Hermione too (because he can never be good enough? because he's jealous of Krum?). Once he's decided that he's pathetic, it becomes a self-fulfilling. In sports, the mental game is often as important as the physical game.

IMO, Ginny's teasing doesn't help, but I think there are other factors mixed up in Ron's HBP insecurity crisis.

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by wingardium713

I think his confidence starts taking a dive when he's not invited into the Slug Club. He doesn't even get noticed by Slug. Even later in the book, Slug does not remember his name. Meanwhile, his best friend, his romantic interest, his romantic/sports rival (McLaggen) and even his little sister get invited to join. He clearly seems very annoyed/upset by this. He is the only one left out. It hits straight to his insecurity about not being "good enough".

Then, his little sister points out that he's the only person who hasn't snogged anybody and that his romantic interest snogged the guy he's been afraid of for years (afraid that Krum's the one that Hermione loves). The next day, Ron can't save a single goal.

Unlike the in OoTP, Ron isn't just scared out of his wits. He's also very aggressive. His insecurity has blended with anger and it's a bit of a toxic mix. I think most of the anger is self-directed. He hates himself for being "pathetic" (not good enough, can't get noticed, can't get a girl, can't get the girl he wants) and he takes it out on others. Though, he does seem angry with Hermione too (because he can never be good enough? because he's jealous of Krum?). Once he's decided that he's pathetic, it becomes a self-fulfilling. In sports, the mental game is often as important as the physical game.

IMO, Ginny's teasing doesn't help, but I think there are other factors mixed up in Ron's HBP insecurity crisis.

That is a good point - I didn't take the Slug Club or the way Slughorn kept ignoring him into account. You're right - that did contribute to Ron's insecurity a great deal once they were back at school. Though I think it was the combination of all those things.

What I was talking about was the time at the Burrow over the summer. That's when I noticed Ron taking a step backward and it seemed to me that it was due to everyone teasing him - particularly with Ginny doing things like making him spill things and tripping him to embarrass him in front of Fleur. When they get their letters and Harry has been made Quidditch captain, Ron makes a weak joke about Harry letting him stay on the team. But even though he presents that as a joke, you can tell that he's genuinely worried about it. I saw that as a step backward because he seemed so much more confident - at least about Quidditch - at the end of OOTP.

[wingardium713]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

What I was talking about was the time at the Burrow over the summer. That's when I noticed Ron taking a step backward and it seemed to me that it was due to everyone teasing him - particularly with Ginny doing things like making him spill things and tripping him to embarrass him in front of Fleur.

I agree, that was pretty mean. Ron was really trying his best. He was being reasonable about Fleur (unlike the Ginny/Mrs. Weasley. Sure, Fleur was being obnoxious, but they weren't trying very hard either. The girl is marrying into the family, try to be welcoming. I'm sure Fleur is picking up the antogism and that's making it worse. If you can't be nice for her sake, do it for your brother/son). Plus, he's clearly effected by her Veela-properties and trying to control that. Give the guy a break.

Although, now that I think of it, that might be part of the reason that Hermione chimes in on the teasing. She likes Ron and she's always been a little jealous of Fleur because of the ease at which she can get Ron all googly. She's angry at Ron for this (and maybe a bit angry with herself because she knows that Ron can't control it).

HBP, An Excess of Phlegm:

"Don't you get used to her if she's staying in the same house?", Harry asked.
"Well, you do," said Ron, "but if she jumps out at you unexpectedly, like then..."
"It's pathetic," said Hermone furiously, striding away from Ron as far as she could go and turning to face him with her arms folded once she had reached the wall.

It's kind of funny how the TriWizard Champions keep causing jealousy problems for Ron and Hermione even though neither is actually romantically interested in Fleur or Krum.

Originally Posted by meesha1971

When they get their letters and Harry has been made Quidditch captain, Ron makes a weak joke about Harry letting him stay on the team. But even though he presents that as a joke, you can tell that he's genuinely worried about it. I saw that as a step backward because he seemed so much more confident - at least about Quidditch - at the end of OOTP.

I wonder how much of a factor it is that Harry and Hermione missed seeing Ron being the MVP in that last game in OoTP. Ron knows it's not their fault (he knows how Hagrid can get), but it might make his victory seem a little less real to him. He's cheered from the sidelines for so long for his best friends, and they miss the one time he's the school hero. He must have been brilliant to stop all of those goals, but he might think that it was just a fluke. He doesn't have his best friends to back him up and tell him that he was really good that day because they didn't witness it. It might also be a factor in why Hermione thinks that Ron needs a "helping hand" and "FF" to be a great keeper. She knows he can be good, but she may not realize how very good he can be.

Ron's insecurities have been developing for 16 years. Those insecurities have developed due to a number of factors. I don't think it's all that easy to get rid of such deeply rooted insecurities like that. And, I think there were a number of factors that year that cause him to have a set-back on fighting those insecurities (teasing, Slugs, McGlaggen, Krum, Snogging).

ETA: Here is probably another factor in Ron's insecurities. At breakfast before Quidditch trials, Hermione goes on and on about how "fanciable" Harry is while completely ignoring Ron's attempts to be considered fanciable too. Hermione of course just wants to explain Harry's sudden rise in popularity and Ron isn't really relevant to the conversation. Plus, Hermione at that point in the story isn't willing to openly admit that Ron is fanciable (she too has insecurities). But, it could leave Ron with the impression that his romantic interest is attracted to his best friend while not being the least bit romantically interested in him. Boom! Self-esteem melt-down.

[leah49]

One thing I might add to Ron's Keeper insecurity in HBP is maybe he's seeing Harry and Ginny get closer to each other. I think during that summer Ginny was closer to the trio than she'd ever been. Maybe he was afraid he could be replaced by Ginny and wouldn't be needed anymore. She's a great Quidditch player. What is he?

[wickedwickedboy]

Yeah but the truth is, Ron was a great Quidditch player. He played well during the summer when Ginny played with them (and he played well of his own accord as he had not really taken the FF potion). So I would disagree that he was jealous of Ginny replacing him with Harry. Later he gave Harry the nod "okay" when he made it clear he wished to date Ginny (by grabbing her back and kissing her). I would opine that Ginny did not play into his insecurities in that precise fashion.

[leah49]

I wouldn't say all that. The kiss happened towards the end of the year. A lot of things happened by then. It wasn't a great OK nod. It was an "I guess I approve" nod. But, I still think there's a chance Ginny played into Ron's insecurities. She's out there kissing boys. She kissed someone before Ron did and she's his little sister. She's this great Quidditch player and even though Ron's good he doesn't think he's as good as her.

[meesha1971]

wingardium713 - I agree. Those are all very good points and I think that the combination of all of those things added to Ron's insecurities.

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

Yeah but the truth is, Ron was a great Quidditch player. He played well during the summer when Ginny played with them (and he played well of his own accord as he had not really taken the FF potion). So I would disagree that he was jealous of Ginny replacing him with Harry. Later he gave Harry the nod "okay" when he made it clear he wished to date Ginny (by grabbing her back and kissing her). I would opine that Ginny did not play into his insecurities in that precise fashion.

Actually, leah49 has a point. We see Harry thinking along the same lines about Ron and Hermione getting together in HBP. He worries about how it will affect their friendship overall as well as how it will affect his place in the friendship between the three of them. Would their friendship survive if they got together and split up? Would he be shut out because of their romance?

So I can see Ron having some concerns about Harry and Ginny getting together. Really, Ron would likely have even more concerns because Ginny was his sister. Harry thought of Hermione as a sister, but it's not quite the same. Ron and Ginny live together - they grew up together - there's a longer history involved. Even without his insecurities, there are things to worry about in that situation. Would his friendship with Harry survive if Harry and Ginny got together and split up? He would be torn between his sister and his best friend. Harry has similar concerns and worries about how his feelings for Ginny will affect his friendship with Ron.

And I can see Ron worrying about being shut out - even more so than Harry worried about being shut out if Ron and Hermione got together. I can see him worrying about Ginny filling his place in the trio. Harry had expressed irritation with Ron and Hermione bickering - Ginny and Hermione generally got along pretty well. Ginny had a good sense of humor and could make Harry laugh. Ginny understood Harry very well and was just as capable as Ron of understanding when Hermione was getting on Harry's nerves and stepping in to intervene - she showed that after the Sectumsempra incident. Ginny is smart and a powerful witch in her own right.

So I can see Ron being concerned about that on some level because of his insecurities. And with Harry and Hermione joining in with the teasing and laughing when Ginny said or did things that were embarrassing to him, it makes sense that he would be worried about that on some level. Fears like that are not always rational. So I can see Ron worrying about Harry and Ginny getting together in a very similar way to Harry worrying about Ron and Hermione getting together.

However, I also think that says a lot about Ron because that was a fear he confronted in HBP when he gave his approval after Harry kissed Ginny. He wasn't very enthusiastic about it - giving a shrug and a look that Harry interpreted as "if you must" - but he accepted it and, by doing so, was able to realize those fears were groundless.

[wickedwickedboy]

I don't disagree that Ron would be affected by it - I just am not sure I would add it to his list of insecurities that provoked his inability to do well in Quidditch.

First off, all athletes have ups and downs. Even the greatest of players have short dry spells; so I would not put his dry spell down to 'insecurity', but rather his dry spell added to his list of insecurities in general. So in that sense, all of Ron's insecurities in life would have some impact on his playing. But I was speaking in a more specific sense; I could see Ron being Jealous of Ginny's Quidditch ability outright (and she wasn't in a rut) - but in a specific sense her liking Harry and visa versa, I do not see as adding to his insecure feeling on the pitch - except in some peripheral way in that all our insecurities flow into some great channel of insecurity or something of that nature. . In other words, I don't think Ron would specifically consider that when he felt unproductive on the pitch; he might think of the other players (including Ginny and Harry); the fact that "he can't seem to do anything right lately" and stuff like that - but I don't see the connect with Ginny and Harry's developing crushes or with the possibility of Ginny replacing Harry in his life because it was not primarily based on the fact that they were both Quidditch players - see what I mean?

[meesha1971]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

I don't disagree that Ron would be affected by it - I just am not sure I would add it to his list of insecurities that provoked his inability to do well in Quidditch.

First off, all athletes have ups and downs. Even the greatest of players have short dry spells; so I would not put his dry spell down to 'insecurity', but rather his dry spell added to his list of insecurities in general. So in that sense, all of Ron's insecurities in life would have some impact on his playing. But I was speaking in a more specific sense; I could see Ron being Jealous of Ginny's Quidditch ability outright (and she wasn't in a rut) - but in a specific sense her liking Harry and visa versa, I do not see as adding to his insecure feeling on the pitch - except in some peripheral way in that all our insecurities flow into some great channel of insecurity or something of that nature. . In other words, I don't think Ron would specifically consider that when he felt unproductive on the pitch; he might think of the other players (including Ginny and Harry); the fact that "he can't seem to do anything right lately" and stuff like that - but I don't see the connect with Ginny and Harry's developing crushes or with the possibility of Ginny replacing Harry in his life because it was not primarily based on the fact that they were both Quidditch players - see what I mean?

I agree actually. I see that as adding to his insecurities overall rather than specifically adding to his insecurity about Quidditch. I think his problems with Quidditch had a tendency to snowball from other issues, but I wouldn't say that those things were a specific cause alone. I think it was a combination that made him down on himself in general, which generally would result in having a bad practice - and the bad practices got him in the "I suck at Quidditch" mindset and it just spiraled down from there.

I do think Ginny contributed to that with how she treated Ron - particularly if he was having a problem during practice. She had a tendency to berate him in front of everyone else and that just made Ron feel worse.

[wickedwickedboy]

Originally Posted by meesha1971

I agree actually. I see that as adding to his insecurities overall rather than specifically adding to his insecurity about Quidditch. I think his problems with Quidditch had a tendency to snowball from other issues, but I wouldn't say that those things were a specific cause alone. I think it was a combination that made him down on himself in general, which generally would result in having a bad practice - and the bad practices got him in the "I suck at Quidditch" mindset and it just spiraled down from there.

I do think Ginny contributed to that with how she treated Ron - particularly if he was having a problem during practice. She had a tendency to berate him in front of everyone else and that just made Ron feel worse.

I would agree with that. I thought Ginny grew pretty fiery when speaking to him as well. Ron too got angry though. I would imagine he was being a little too overprotective, but at the same time, Ginny I think over-reacted a bit. I am not sure if that was because Harry was present or what. But if I recall correctly, she accused him of only having kissed Aunt Myrtle, which was pretty low . Poor Ron. The good thing is, Harry knew that was not true, so Ron didn't have to feel terribly embarassed about her words - and his mind pretty much stayed on track. That particular conversation wasn't too bad in terms of his feelings of insecurity, but Ginny was prone to highlight his flaws during that span of time, so I agree overall that would lend to his feeilng insecure.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

I would agree with that. I thought Ginny grew pretty fiery when speaking to him as well. Ron too got angry though. I would imagine he was being a little too overprotective, but at the same time, Ginny I think over-reacted a bit. I am not sure if that was because Harry was present or what. But if I recall correctly, she accused him of only having kissed Aunt Myrtle, which was pretty low . Poor Ron. The good thing is, Harry knew that was not true, so Ron didn't have to feel terribly embarassed about her words - and his mind pretty much stayed on track. That particular conversation wasn't too bad in terms of his feelings of insecurity, but Ginny was prone to highlight his flaws during that span of time, so I agree overall that would lend to his feeilng insecure.

Oh, I don't know. When your baby sister makes a comment like that in front of 2 of your classmates, it has to make you feel small! And Ron hadn't kissed anyone at that point, had he? In fact he seemed to have taken very little interest in girls at all till then - his feelings for Hermione seemed to focus more on jealousy than wanting her himself. So I can see it contributing to his general feeling of "I'm useless" - which would decrease his confidence generally and which would show itself in his Quidditch. It did drive him into an unsuitable relationship with Lavender which boosted his confidence for a while.

[wickedwickedboy]

I thought he'd already had his little deal with Lavender by the time they had that conversation. Nonetheless, I would agree that conversation didn't help him feel any more secure with himself.

[clemxens]

I felt bad for him then. Ginny goes a little overboard sometimes.