Ronald Bilius Weasley: Character Analysis

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by MsBinns

Do you think the twins really knew he was smitten with Hermione? I only ask because, as you stated in the rest of your post, don't you think they would have teased him mercilessly about it every chance they got?

That's why I think propsitions 1 and 2 in my post are far more likely. I agree that if they had figured out Ron fancied Hermione he never would have heard the end of it and he probably would have died of mortification when they teased him about it in front of Hermione herself. And I wouldn't put it past them to do something like that.

The only thing that makes me hold on to that as the tiniest of possibilities is that Fred and George are, in their heart of hearts, family men. They are fiercely loyal to their family to the point of wearing their mothers' hand knitted sweater on Christmas even though they may not have liked them and basically shunning Percy once he disowned the family for the Ministry. A part of me wonders if they would put aside their brotherly teasing and help their baby bro out with Hermione.

And then I think of all the great teasing opportunities they would have to pass up in that scenario and I'm back where I started...

[Silversword]

I recently watched the last 4 Harry Potter movies in a row, so I'm currently in a «Harry Potter» mood XD

I think one of the main reason why Ron's heroic actions are often overlooked is that most of the time, he does something similar to Harry while Hermione does something different on her own. Since Ron is known as Harry's sidekick, we don't feel the need to mention or remember him since Harry did it anyway and it's all what matters. Hermione, who's already the only girl of the trio, usually does something independently and therefore, it stands out more than what Ron did.

A good exemple of this is in DH part 2, when the trio saves Draco and his friend and then escape from the room of requirement. Harry and Ron both save someone in a similar way while Hermione is the one leading the escape. It's easier to remember that Harry did it since it was his idea. We tend to forget that Ron did the same thing, risking his life to save an enemy. Hermione gets remembered for allowing them to escape. This kind of pattern can be seen on several occasions in DH (both book and movies).

Besides, I'd personally describe each of the trio member's role as so. Harry is the leader and most proactive member. The one who eventually accomplishes most of the things. Hermione is the most skilled and the smartest. She figures things out and provides valuable informations. Her intelligence also saves them quite often. Ron is... pretty much everything else. Although he can be a thinker or a leader on his occasions, it's not exactly what he's known for. But Ron's purpose in the trio is definitely way more than just comic relief. It's subtle, but it's just as vital as what Hermione provides. Basically, the trio without Ron is like The Beatles without George Harrison and Ringo Starr. Maybe not the most elegant parallel, but you can see my point.

[TenderHooligan]

So to revive this thread after a long period of inactivity, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on the Ron/Hermione 'relationship' between the funeral and the kiss we see on-page. I stumbled upon an old post of Meesha's while perusing one of the Hermione threads where she suggested the possibility that the kiss we see in canon was not in fact the first kiss R/Hr share, only the first one Harry (and we the readers) see.

One the one hand, I can totally buy it. JRK has never (to my knowledge) come out and explicitly said it was R/Hr's first kiss and they do act very 'couple-y' at times in DH and Ron at least is much more forthcoming about his expressing his feelings even if he doesn't come out and say anything directly like 'I love you Hermione'. I mean even the 'I get it. You choose him' is a pretty darn direct admission for Ron that he fancies Hermione. Harry himself thinks they're 'sort of' together as he tells Krum at the wedding even though he's only been around them for a few days at that point (and most of the time the trio was kept separate by Molly's endless chore list, limiting the time he'd be able to watch them interact). And I know personally I like the idea of Ron and Hermione having secret snogging time we didn't get to see And it seems JKR wasn't particularly interested in writing characters actually being together based on putting off R/Hr for so long and glazing over so much of the H/G moments that must've gone on toward the end of HBP.

But on the other, I'm very hesitant to fully buy into the concept. I mean it's still implied canon that the kiss outside the RoR was their first kiss, and it's difficult to imagine Ron being so irrationally jealous of H/Hr if they were snogging and such when Harry wasn't around. But it's definitely something I think about when reading or writing post-DH fanfic and was curious about other people's thoughts on the possibility.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by TenderHooligan

So to revive this thread after a long period of inactivity, I was wondering what people's thoughts were on the Ron/Hermione 'relationship' between the funeral and the kiss we see on-page. I stumbled upon an old post of Meesha's while perusing one of the Hermione threads where she suggested the possibility that the kiss we see in canon was not in fact the first kiss R/Hr share, only the first one Harry (and we the readers) see.

One the one hand, I can totally buy it. JRK has never (to my knowledge) come out and explicitly said it was R/Hr's first kiss and they do act very 'couple-y' at times in DH and Ron at least is much more forthcoming about his expressing his feelings even if he doesn't come out and say anything directly like 'I love you Hermione'. I mean even the 'I get it. You choose him' is a pretty darn direct admission for Ron that he fancies Hermione. Harry himself thinks they're 'sort of' together as he tells Krum at the wedding even though he's only been around them for a few days at that point (and most of the time the trio was kept separate by Molly's endless chore list, limiting the time he'd be able to watch them interact). And I know personally I like the idea of Ron and Hermione having secret snogging time we didn't get to see And it seems JKR wasn't particularly interested in writing characters actually being together based on putting off R/Hr for so long and glazing over so much of the H/G moments that must've gone on toward the end of HBP.

But on the other, I'm very hesitant to fully buy into the concept. I mean it's still implied canon that the kiss outside the RoR was their first kiss, and it's difficult to imagine Ron being so irrationally jealous of H/Hr if they were snogging and such when Harry wasn't around. But it's definitely something I think about when reading or writing post-DH fanfic and was curious about other people's thoughts on the possibility.

I think perhaps it was the first really passionate kiss between them, but not technically the first one.

[cool_chick_div]

Hmmm...that's a tough one. I never really thought of it, but maybe they got closer and closer during their time in DH, especially after Malfoy Manor. Ron seemed to spend a lot of time with Hermione then. I always thought that the stuff he did in the war and what he said about the house elves were the icing on the cake. Before that I feel like they were like and "alamost couple" and "we love each other but we are not established as a couple." After all Harry himself says they sort of are a couple. And I definitely do agree that kiss in front of Harry was passionate.

[HRW]

To be honest if you really want to, you can make a pretty good case for them being together before DH but personally I don't see it that way. imo Harry says they are sort of together because he knows both of them like each other. The way I read the books, if they ever kissed before the final battle it must've been at Shell Cottage. I personally think that at Shell Cottage they must've talked about everything (Krum, Lavender, locket) and admitted to liking each other.

Originally Posted by Silversword

Besides, I'd personally describe each of the trio member's role as so. Harry is the leader and most proactive member. The one who eventually accomplishes most of the things. Hermione is the most skilled and the smartest. She figures things out and provides valuable informations. Her intelligence also saves them quite often. Ron is... pretty much everything else. Although he can be a thinker or a leader on his occasions, it's not exactly what he's known for. But Ron's purpose in the trio is definitely way more than just comic relief. It's subtle, but it's just as vital as what Hermione provides. Basically, the trio without Ron is like The Beatles without George Harrison and Ringo Starr. Maybe not the most elegant parallel, but you can see my point.

My 2 cents on this.

I don't see Harry as the leader as such. I mean sure, everything the trio did was dictated by Harry's needs but until Dobby dies in DH he never stands out as the leader. I see no real leader among the three, if anything Hermione was probably the leader in the sense that she got her way a lot of the times with her bossy and know it all nature. Harry is the one with the destiny, he's the one who has to end it all and that is how I see his role, The Chosen One.

I have a bit of an issue with Hermione being referred to as the brains of the trio (not that you have) as I find that quite insulting to Ron and Harry who are both quite smart in their own way. Hermione is who I would call the researcher of the trio for lack of a better word. Both Harry and Ron are quite lazy (Ron is probably the laziest) and aren't going to be inclined to spending hours in the library (not that they never do it) going through book after book. Hermione on the other hand is hard working and determined and does not rest until she gets the information she wants.

Ron's role is a lot tougher to define as he does not stand out in comparison to Harry and Hermione (The Chosen one and the Walking library). His qualities unlike Harry and Hermione seem to be spread out a lot more. However his biggest plus is that the Chosen one and the Walking Library (as I put it) are just so much more happier and work so much more better when he is around. Harry from being depressed, annoyed, angry, frustrated, pessimistic and not wanting to be anywhere near Hermione in DH is suddenly lighthearted and and optimistic again when Ron returns. He understands both of them and has the ability to comfort them as well, something Harry and Hermione seem to be unable to do to each other. So I suppose he keeps them together even if he himself may not realise it.

Apologies if this was a bit off topic.

[ShadowSonic]

TBH, I always found Harry to be the laziest one in the Trio intellectually, not Ron. He wants to know about his family, yet for years does absolutely no research into them until it's more or less just handed to him (Snape's memories).

[HRW]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

TBH, I always found Harry to be the laziest one in the Trio intellectually, not Ron. He wants to know about his family, yet for years does absolutely no research into them until it's more or less just handed to him (Snape's memories).

Well when I said Ron was the laziest I was referring to his work ethic and not his intellect. Intellect wise I found both of them to be pretty similar. Harry is slightly better in DADA (which I would put down to Lupin's special teaching) but other than that there's nothing between them imo.

[ShadowSonic]

Well, Harry only bothers learning things when his life is one the line.

But you're right, if Ron just put some actual effort into things he'd probably be smarter than Harry and about as skilled as him.

[asdfasdf17]

Originally Posted by HRW

Well when I said Ron was the laziest I was referring to his work ethic and not his intellect. Intellect wise I found both of them to be pretty similar. Harry is slightly better in DADA (which I would put down to Lupin's special teaching) but other than that there's nothing between them imo.

Harry is pretty skilled in DADA but by Lupin's special teaching do you mean the private lessons he gave Harry? I don't know if that would count much in Harry being skilled in DADA because as far as I recall, Lupin only seemed to have taught him how to do the Patronus spell and nothing else.

As for Ron,

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

Well, Harry only bothers learning things when his life is one the line.

But you're right, if Ron just put some actual effort into things he'd probably be smarter than Harry and about as skilled as him.

I agree. I think Ron had potential in him but he didn't try as hard. Which is interesting because Ron seemed to feel overshadowed by his brothers. If he really wanted to outshine them, wouldn't he have tried to be spectacular at school? Maybe he didn't have the confidence for it.

[ShadowSonic]

He likely didn't receive enough encouragement to have faith in himself. Harry and Hermione being fawned over and having more chances to show off their skills didn't help any.

[HRW]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf17

Harry is pretty skilled in DADA but by Lupin's special teaching do you mean the private lessons he gave Harry? I don't know if that would count much in Harry being skilled in DADA because as far as I recall, Lupin only seemed to have taught him how to do the Patronus spell and nothing else.

I was talking about the OWL's where Harry gets an O compare to Ron's A (or was it an E) which might have been down to the fact that he got bonus marks for his Patronus in the OWL's. As for actual dueling skills it's hard to compare because we don't see much of him in action. His group seems to do quite well at the MoM in the 5th book before he is eventually strangled by the brain. Harry sees Ron taking on one of the death eaters at the end of books 6 and he seems to be doing well (he did take Felix Felicis though). He is praised by Tonks in DH which I think is high praise as she seemed to have been Mad-Eye's favourite (and he was supposed to be very good).

As for Ron,


I agree. I think Ron had potential in him but he didn't try as hard. Which is interesting because Ron seemed to feel overshadowed by his brothers. If he really wanted to outshine them, wouldn't he have tried to be spectacular at school? Maybe he didn't have the confidence for it.

I think that's the main issue as Ron says right in the first book. If he does well in school he becomes Percy's brother, if he does well at Quidditch he is Charlie's brother and Fred and George are the funny one's. It's a tough position to be in. He wants to do something that set's him part from his brothers. He probably thought there was no point in working too hard at school as there was nothing to gain. I think another reason why he never tried to work as hard as he might have is that he seemed to admire the twins. He wanted them to like him and he seems to care what they thought about him. Of course it's rather ironic I think that those two are probably one of the biggest reasons why his self confidence is often rock bottom.

It's no coincidence that the two quidditch games he does very well in are the games where he dosen't put himself down. His attitude in that 2nd game in the 5th year is 'It can't get worse' and he does brilliantly. Similarly in the 6th year he thinks he has the lucky potion and again does well. The potential for greater things is quite clearly there but the self confidence required to achieve it is missing. Being with Hermione will probably give him that confidence and more importantly give him self worth. He needs to realise how important he is. If you do not love yourself (not to the point of arrogance of course) then you won't get anywhere in life and I am sure Hermione will get it into his thick head that he was as important to the trio as she and Harry.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by ShadowSonic

He likely didn't receive enough encouragement to have faith in himself. Harry and Hermione being fawned over and having more chances to show off their skills didn't help any.

Sorry, but when was Harry "fawned over" by teachers? I don't recall anyone giving him any quarter unless he put in the effort. And we can't count potions in HBP, because Harry offered the alternate instructions to both Hermione & Ron....Hermione rejected it outright as outside the approved book, and if I recall correctly, Ron didn't want to try deciphering the messy notes & bad handwriting...not that he wanted to be in Potions in the first place.

[asdfasdf17]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Sorry, but when was Harry "fawned over" by teachers? I don't recall anyone giving him any quarter unless he put in the effort. And we can't count potions in HBP, because Harry offered the alternate instructions to both Hermione & Ron....Hermione rejected it outright as outside the approved book, and if I recall correctly, Ron didn't want to try deciphering the messy notes & bad handwriting...not that he wanted to be in Potions in the first place.

Harry was fawned over by some teachers (Slughorn especially. And Slughorn completely ignored Ron, which was obviously a bit annoying). But mainly Harry was fawned over because he was famous (the Boy who Lived, the Chosen One) and he received more attention than Ron because of that, especially from girls during his sixth year (IIRC someone tried to give him a love potion!).

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf17

Harry was fawned over by some teachers (Slughorn especially. And Slughorn completely ignored Ron, which was obviously a bit annoying). But mainly Harry was fawned over because he was famous (the Boy who Lived, the Chosen One) and he received more attention than Ron because of that, especially from girls during his sixth year (IIRC someone tried to give him a love potion!).

Except that it appears Ron didn't give a darn about potions or Harry's doing well because of the book -- in fact, he seemed all for Harry's using it. Ron was more annoyed at Hermione for trying to get Harry to turn it in. Either way, Ron's confidence wasn't affected by the potions book.

As far as attention from girls, not all that many. We only have one really trying to get Harry to pay attention, and that was Romilda Vane. And except for the mistakenly taken love potion, Ron wasn't attracted to or bothered by Romilda Vane's attempts to get Harry's attention. Ron is only concerned with whether or not Hermione thinks he (Ron) is attractive ("I'm tall...").

So I don't see how any of these things contributed to Ron's confidence issues -- they really do seem to come from Ron's feeling unable to live up to his brothers' various successes.

[asdfasdf17]

Originally Posted by HedwigOwl

Except that it appears Ron didn't give a darn about potions or Harry's doing well because of the book -- in fact, he seemed all for Harry's using it. Ron was more annoyed at Hermione for trying to get Harry to turn it in. Either way, Ron's confidence wasn't affected by the potions book.

As far as attention from girls, not all that many. We only have one really trying to get Harry to pay attention, and that was Romilda Vane. And except for the mistakenly taken love potion, Ron wasn't attracted to or bothered by Romilda Vane's attempts to get Harry's attention.

So I don't see how any of these things contributed to Ron's confidence issues -- they really do seem to come from Ron's feeling unable to live up to his brothers' various successes.

While Ron may not have been bothered by some of the specific things that happened to Harry, IMO he still compared himself with Harry and might have decided that Harry was more successful/talented/better liked/more lucky than him (I mean, he does have confidence issues). He may have started to feel overshadowed and that's what probably bugged him most.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by asdfasdf17

While Ron may not have been bothered by some of the specific things that happened to Harry, IMO he still compared himself with Harry and might have decided that Harry was more successful/talented/better liked/more lucky than him (I mean, he does have confidence issues). He may have started to feel overshadowed and that's what probably bugged him most.

I don't think that was the case. In the books I think there are only 2 instances where it seems clear that Ron is feeling insecure around Harry:

1) - When Ron is so caught up in wishing that he could enter the Triwizard tournament that he has difficulty believing that Harry would not want the same thing as he did.

2) - When Ron misinterpreted the friendship between Harry & Hermione as a romantic one while under the influence of the locket. Even then, Ron later tells Harry that he (Ron) knew better, but couldn't stop himself. The occasional fleeting thought became an overwhelming fear because of the locket.

Other than that, I don't see Ron being bothered by Harry at all. It was Ron's not being able to step outside of his brothers' shadows that was the core of the problem. We hear this both from Dumbledore in book 1, and from Hermione in book 4 -- two characters that JKR has stated she uses to present information needed for the reader to understand things that were not naturally part of the storyline.

[ShadowSonic]

Hermione doesn't know everything, and I personally thought she was wrong when she told Harry Ron was jealous of him in GOF. And DD only said those things in book One, when Ron still had years of change in him.

[HRW]

I have to agree with HedwigOwl on a couple of points.

I don't think Ron's in the least bit bothered about how Harry does at Potions. And later on he is probably quite thankful to the book seeing as it saved his life.

I don't think Ron could have less about any attention Harry was getting from the girls. He only cared about Hermione and he spent most of his time with her anyway.

I do disagree on some points as well though.

Harry does want to enter the triwizard tournament. He does not state this to anyone but it's clear that had he found a way to enter he probably would've. Hermione's explanation to Harry the following day does not entirely match up with what Ron said. Ron is not jealous that Harry entered but seems disappointed that Harry had not told him how to do it. had Hermione not said what she did, they probably would've made up the same day.

I don't think Ron's only problem is the fact that he is overshadowed by his brothers. He gets overshadowed by Harry as well. Everything he does, harry does as well and Harry being well Harry overshadows him. I think by OoTP Ron is not too bothered by his brothers but only cares what Hermione (and to a lesser extent Harry) thinks of him. Both of them mean the world to him (in different ways) and we see it in the locket that one of his fears is that they don't need him.

How much does the fact that Harry Overshadows him affects him, we can't really say. It can't be easy having people look past you as if you aren't even there and having professors not even bothering to remember your name. It would be stupid to assume that it did not affect him so I think it's a credit to Ron that he never lets any of that interfere with his friendship. He realises I think that it's not exactly Harry's fault he is so famous and that harry hates all the attention he gets.

[HedwigOwl]

Originally Posted by HRW

Harry does want to enter the triwizard tournament. He does not state this to anyone but it's clear that had he found a way to enter he probably would've. Hermione's explanation to Harry the following day does not entirely match up with what Ron said. Ron is not jealous that Harry entered but seems disappointed that Harry had not told him how to do it. had Hermione not said what she did, they probably would've made up the same day.

The problem I see with this view is that no one knew that Harry thought about what it would be like to enter the tournament -- and I might add that these were rather fanciful daydreams about doing well and impressing Cho. These were not actual thoughts about whether/how he could get around the age line and enter. Harry didn't want to enter in reality. More importantly, Ron did not know what thoughts were in Harry's head; his responses were along the lines of "yeah" "I suppose so", etc., and mostly listening to Ron (and Fred & George) go on about how great it wouild be.

So Harry's thoughts had no effect on Ron....it's not like Harry was going around boasting how great he could be in the tournament.

I don't think Ron's only problem is the fact that he is overshadowed by his brothers. He gets overshadowed by Harry as well. Everything he does, harry does as well and Harry being well Harry overshadows him.

No, not his only problem, but a major one. It's why he doesn't see his own individual strengths clearly...he's always comparing what great things he does in light of how it measures up (in his own mind only) to what his brothers have accomplished. As far as the attention Harry gets, Ron also sees the downside of that, and actually tells a few people to basically leave Harry alone. So yes, sometimes teachers don't always notice Ron, but Ron also doesn't make an attempt to stand out either, fearing the teachers will compare him to his brothers.

Originally Posted by HRW

How much does the fact that Harry Overshadows him affects him, we can't really say. It can't be easy having people look past you as if you aren't even there and having professors not even bothering to remember your name. It would be stupid to assume that it did not affect him so I think it's a credit to Ron that he never lets any of that interfere with his friendship. He realises I think that it's not exactly Harry's fault he is so famous and that harry hates all the attention he gets.

Slughorn is an exception with Ron's name -- I'd guess he only pays attention to the students he wants to recruit. I don't recall any of the other teachers not knowing Ron's name.

To be fair, Percy doesn't get called the right name the entire time he's at the Ministry, either.