Login  
 
 
Go Back   Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5



View Poll Results: What do you think reflected Sirius' animagus form the most?
His loyalty to his friends. 37 80.43%
His friendship with Remus. 2 4.35%
The likelihood of him being in the doghouse (har de dar). 1 2.17%
His reckless nature. 10 21.74%
Obligatory pony option. 4 8.70%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old June 17th, 2012, 11:26 am
Moriath's Avatar
Moriath  Female.gif Moriath is offline
MODLY CREW
 
Joined: 3238 days
Location: Neverwhere
Posts: 7,014
Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Welcome to the fifth instalment of this thread!


For reference:
Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.2
Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.3
Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.4


Harry’s godfather was reckless and thoughtless in his youth but he was also fiercely loyal and extraordinarily brave to the day he died. He became an Animagus at fifteen, joined the Order right after school and was imprisoned with twenty-two. As James Potter’s best friend he used the time he had and tried to be the family that Harry never knew. Yet he made some questionable decisions in his life.

  1. In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?
  2. The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?
  3. Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?
  4. Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?
  5. Sirius never had the chance to grow up and have an adult life. Has the character matured at all?
  6. How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?
  7. Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?
  8. Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?
  9. Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?
  10. What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?
  11. Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?


AS THIS IS STILL A HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL AND SENSITIVE TOPIC WE WOULD LIKE TO ASK EVERYONE TO PLEASE BE SENSITIVE TO OTHERS OPINIONS. THIS MEANS NO GLOATING AS WELL AS NO BASHING. CONSEQUENCES WILL BE SEVERE AND POSTERS OF THIS THREAD ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO READ THE FOLLOWING THREADS CAREFULLY:

How to have a pleasant conversation on any topic and REVISED: Character Bashing/Worship: aka Shades of Gray

BE ADVISED THAT THIS THREAD IS IN A HOT ZONE!
FAIR WARNING GUIDE


Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old July 1st, 2012, 10:37 am
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 827 days
Posts: 440
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

  1. In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?
    Sirius's room shows that he was very rebellious. He wanted his family to know how different he was from them which is why he had so many Gryffindor banners and Muggle posters. He wasn't afraid to show them how different he was and he probably enjoyed making his parents mad since he disliked them. The fact that he used a Permanent Sticking Charm on all the decorations also emphasizes his rebelliousness. He did not want to be associated with his family.
  2. The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?
    I liked how that letter showed the reader that the two got along pretty well. I figured since Lily liked James she would like his friends too but seeing the letter was pretty cool. Sirius talks a lot about James and the reader really get a feel of their relationship but Sirius and Lily's relationship is never really discussed so that was pretty interesting. They must've been really friendly to each other, maybe like sister and brother, maybe.
  3. Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?
    I think Siruis mistrusted Remus because (like most people have said) it was clear that someone in the Order had betrayed them and it would most likely be someone close to James and Lily. Since Sirius seems to have underestimated Peter, he didn't think Peter would be the one so it had to be Remus. Remus started suspecting Sirius as being the spy, they acted 'suspiciously' around each other which made Sirius even more sure that Remus was the spy. I don't really see Peter as being the type to actively create a rift. Peter probably saw Sirius's growing suspicion of Remus and let it play out.
  4. Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?
    From the way Sirius talks of his brother's death it seems he found out after Regulus died. I think Sirius would have helped Regulus if he needed it, he might have saw Regulus's defection as a chance to get him on the good side. I'm sure deep down he cared for him.
  5. Sirius never had the chance to grow up and have an adult life. Has the character matured at all?
    It had been difficult for Sirius to mature a lot because of the conditions he had been placed under (first locked up in Azkaban, than locked up in his hated childhood home). But his concern for Harry might have made him rethink some of the things he did so that he could keep Harry safe. For example, during the Triwizard Tournament, Sirius told Harry to stay in the castle because it was safer. Harry even noted that had Sirius been in the position he, Harry, was that he, Sirius, would not have taken that advice and left the castle.
  6. How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?
    The Deathly Hallows made Sirius even more interesting. I really enjoyed the glimpse the reader got of his room because it told us more about him as a teenager. I liked the way he was portrayed in the Resurrection stone scene. I wished to see more glimpses of his past life but I was satisfied with the role he played.
  7. Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?
    Sirius wasn't able to fully mature as an adult so it was difficult for him to be an adult to Harry. He treated Harry the way he thought was best for Harry although his decisions weren't always very responsible decisions. He wanted to make Harry happy and for that he was a good godfather. Unfortunately, he did treat Harry like a friend rather than a godson sometimes which was difficult for Harry because he wanted Sirius very much as a father figure.
  8. Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?
    Yes, he would have. Sirius has been known to not always live up to his word but I bet this time he definitely would have.
  9. Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?
    Yes. I bet when Sirius met James on the train they got along really well and he probably thought James was pretty cool. From the way he reacts to James comments about Slytherins he seems to have already been thinking about abandoning the family tradition. I'm sure that when James mentioned he'd like to be in Gryffindor, Sirius decided he wanted to be in it too and asked the hat to sort him there.
  10. What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?
    The very first time they saw each other, neither liked the other. From their personalities I doubt either tried to patch things up. So the hatred just escalated and escalated. Also, Snape resembled a lot of what Sirius didn't like so naturally Sirius didn't like Snape. Snape really hated James which would give Sirius another reason to hate Snape.
  11. Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?
    I bet Remus talked to him and helped him out whenever he was around. But I get the impression that Order members didn't hang around Grimmauld place unless there was a meeting going on or some big event (like Christmas). All those other times Sirius must have been pretty alone. His relationships:
    Remus: Really good friend and someone he could talk to about his problems.
    Molly: Although they didn't always get along, I doubt he hated her or even strongly disliked her.
    Arthur: Good friends.
    Dumbledore: Sirius seemed pretty upset with the Headmaster because of all the safety stuff he had to follow (like not leaving his house). So I don't think he was too happy seeing Dumbledore.
    Mundungus: I get the impression Sirius got along fine with Dung and vice versa (Sirius didn't seem to mind Dung handling his family silver; Dung, having assumed the Order meeting was still going on, raised his hand to agree with Sirius)
    Tonks: I'm sure Sirius liked Tonks a lot seeing as she was his favorite cousin's daughter
    Snape: Obviously, he hated and didn't trust him.



Last edited by asdfasdf17; July 4th, 2012 at 2:43 am.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 2nd, 2012, 6:47 pm
Goddess_Clio  Female.gif Goddess_Clio is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 935 days
Location: The pirate ship Revenge
Age: 29
Posts: 1,849
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?

I think it's indicative of his rebellious nature. He hated his family and he wanted to make it very clear that he didn't want anything to do with them so he decorated his room in the most provacative way he could.

The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?

I don't know if it's indicative of Lily and Sirius's realtionship or whether they "got along very well." It begins as a thank you note for Sirius's birthday gift to Harry, proceeds to an invitation to visit so James isn't quite so bored and ends more or less with an interesting fact about Dumbledore and a reference to one of the less than interesting ways in which the Potters pass time; having tea with their neighbor, probably the only neighbor they can really visit. No matter how interesting Bathilda is, sitting with her every afternoon for tea would get old after a couple weeks.

So, no, it didn't change my view of their relationship, it sort of reinforces the idea I have that Lily and Sirius were probably somewhat contentious in the way that a brother and sister are contentious. I think Lily's snappy retorts and needling was tranfered from James to Sirius and that if anything there's an affection between them but a bristly, annoying sibling type affection.

Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?

Remus, I think, was more obviously a target of prejudice than, say, Peter was. IMO, it was James who kept the Marauders together and that would have included convincing Sirius to a certain extent that the prejudice Remus received as a werewolf was no different than the type of prejudice Sirius's parents dished out. Once it was framed in those terms I think Sirius would have jumped on board and defended Remus to the ground. When push came to shove, though, and trust and loyalty were tested, James proved himself to be the loyal-to-a-fault friend who was unwilling to believe anything bad about his friends and Sirius proved that he was more cynical and willing to acknowledge that he and James could have been wrong about trusting a werewolf. I think Sirius showed in his suspicions of Remus that they weren't as close a friend with each other as they were with James.

Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?

I don't think Sirius knew Regulus had turned. I don't think anyone but Kreacher knew. I don't know if Sirius, at the time (in the 80's) would have believed that his brother would have turned away from Voldemort. I think Sirius was so angry with his family, rejected them so fully and thought so badly of them that if Regulus came to him and said that he had left Voldemort Sirius would have viewed it as an attempt to ingratiate himself to an Order member and become a spy. I don't think Sirius trusted Regulus at all. (I also think childhood jealousy would have played a role in this since Regulus was obviously the family favorite between the two boys)

Sirius never had the chance to grow up and have an adult life. Has the character matured at all?

I don't think he was really given time to mature as a character, no.

How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?

I don't remember Sirius in DH so...

Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?

I think he was right in that that's all he knew to do; treat Harry as a friend because Sirius had no experience being a father or being responsible for anyone but himself. I think he was as good a godfather as he was capable of being.

Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?

Yes, I think so.

Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?

No. I think his urning to rebell from his family and their way of thinking was apparent to the sorting hat and Sirius's brazen, rebellious nature would have sorted him into Gryffindor on its own.

What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?

I think it was partly to do with his prejudice against his family; Snape comments to Lily that she'd better be in Slytherin and Sirius's whole family had been in Slytherin so Sirius would automatically be averse to Snape based simply on that. On top of that, he had the great feeling of being able to gang up on Snape with James, and later Sirius would grow to hate Snape simply because Snape was James's enemy and Sirius would support his friend.

Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?

I think he had a very frustration time in the Order his second time around. I think they were probably mostly too busy to hang around him much or to talk out his feelings (and Sirius didn't seem to be that type anyway) so Sirius was probably left to suffer in silence, something that was compounded and reinforced by the fact that he was basically reliving his childhood - stuck in a house where people weren't really listening to him.


__________________
"I could have been in politics 'cause I've always been a big spender."
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 2nd, 2012, 7:46 pm
Divvie  Female.gif Divvie is offline
Student
 
Joined: 660 days
Posts: 134
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

My personal opinion:
  • In DH, we see Sirius' room at 12GP. How does the room reflect his personality?
    I always found it too ostentatious to be really genuine; one reason might be that he was using it to shock his parents with his muggle-macho attitude; the other one is that the macho imagine of his was used to cover some perhaps some non-mainstraim personal preferences he didn't want to own up to.

  • The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?
    Not really; I always thought that Lily's friendship and relationship with James would inevitably entail some friendly realtionship with his friends. It doesn't mean they are really close, but it was amicable enough.

  • Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?
    I think Sirius was always quick to judge - and Remus as a werewolve had a dark side in him that Sirius would find easy to blame for anything that might not fit with his preconceived notions, like suspecting a spy within the Order. Peter might have successfully played on that - as much as downplaying his own significance. It seems Peter was quite skilled in making himself overlooked if he wanted to.

  • Did Sirius know that his brother left the Death Eaters at the time? Would he have helped him?
    I don't think so to either question. He was pretty judgemental about his family and would have not given Reg a chance to explain.

  • Sirius never had the chance to grow up and have an adult life. Has the character matured at all?
    Not in my opinion. He remained as impulsive and reckless an adult as he was as a boy. I am trying to remain polite here or I would find stronger words about how I view his character.

  • How did Deathly Hallows influence your view on Sirius? Were you pleased or disappointed with the role he played?
    Not at all; he was pretty inconsequential.

  • Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?
    He was behaving irresponsibly in general (egging Harry on to rebel against authority) and showed signs of not being able distinguish between being with his childhood friends and with Harry (calling Harry "James" in the MoM was a dead give-away). He was a good godfather in that he clearly loved Harry and could show him that. In terms of father-figure/parental guide I don't think he was a good role-model.

  • Would Sirius have died for Peter Pettigrew in 1981?
    I doubt either of the other Marauders would have died for Peter. He seemed very much an accessory, hanging on to the clique, but I doubt he was valued overly much (after all, he must have found sufficient incentive to betray his supposed friends, so I would imagine he felt slighted by James and Sirius "in your face" attitude quite a bit).

  • Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?
    Probably; the hat would have suggested Slytherin based on family imprint, so I guess Sirius was giving it a vehement anti-Slytherin spiel and got nominated Gryff instead. After all, there is no indication that he would have qualified for either Ravenclaw or Hufflepuff, with his character and propensities.

  • What was Sirius' enmity with Snape based on?
    Well, he answered that, both in SWM and in his response to Harry: He thought Snape was a slimy oddball with an attitude who he loathed pretty much on sight "because he existed". The fact that Snape had an affinity to Slytherin and the Dark Arts (of which James and Sirius knew nothing when they met the first time on the Hogwarts train) justified his dislike sufficiently to him. He found sufficient reason to play out his antipathy so this animosity escalated throughout their school years.
    In essence it is part of Sirius' personality to jump to snap-judgements and conclusion. Personally, I would call that predjudiced or biased, but I guess others might view this differently.

  • Sirius apparently suffered from depression in OotP. Do you think that he got any support from his friends and fellow Order members? How was his relationship with them?
    I think depression has been handled rather badly overall in the WW. There are other people who obviously suffered from depression and/or PTSD at one time or another (e.g. Snape, Harry) but neither of them got really any support. So I doubt that Sirius was in any different position; he would do what many untreated depressives do, self-medicate with alcohol and some acting out. As to his relationship with the other Order members: I think that was mostly defined during the first War, not OotP. Although there would have been major clashes between him (anti-authoritarian) and Molly Weasly (who's rather authoritarian herself).


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 3rd, 2012, 1:07 am
Goddess_Clio  Female.gif Goddess_Clio is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 935 days
Location: The pirate ship Revenge
Age: 29
Posts: 1,849
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divvie View Post
As to his relationship with the other Order members: I think that was mostly defined during the first War, not OotP. Although there would have been major clashes between him (anti-authoritarian) and Molly Weasly (who's rather authoritarian herself).
There were many new Order members, though. Molly, Arthur and Mundungus are all new members for sure, Snape is now an "out and proud" Order member as it were; his role as a spy in the first war didn't seem to admit him to the ranks of the Order of the Phoenix so the second war was really his first time in the Order. Tonks was too young during the first war to be an Order member. Sirius never had a chance to define relationships with these people during the first war so the limited interactions he had with them during OOTP would be the only time he could build those relationships.

I would agree with you about Molly, though. She was definitely an authority figure and I don't think Sirius liked it.


__________________
"I could have been in politics 'cause I've always been a big spender."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 8:38 pm
Divvie  Female.gif Divvie is offline
Student
 
Joined: 660 days
Posts: 134
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio View Post
There were many new Order members, though. Molly, Arthur and Mundungus are all new members for sure, ...
I would agree with you about Molly, though. She was definitely an authority figure and I don't think Sirius liked it.
While I agree with Fletcher being new to the Order, I am not sure about Molly & Arthur; I was under the impression they were already involved as Order members in the first war (in fact I thought some of the arguments in the Molly Weasley CA thread centered around that).

And there were certainly "old" order members that were inconsequential followers (like Diggle, Doge, Figg) with little sway one way or the other or that were already established as Sirius' friends (like Lupin and Hagrid) who would just go back to the old days.
Still, there were quite some influential "old" members that would pretty much pick up with Sirius where they left off 13 years ago, notably McGonnagal, Ab Dumbledore, Moody; so it seems the older influential elements would mostly pick up where they were.

Of the new order members, the main influx that would have any influence would be Shacklebolt imo. He already covered up for Sirius on his escape in PoA so he would draw the Dumbledore/Old Order line.

Of the remaining new order members I cannot see anyone who would not follow the older members lead on how they handled other members. Tonks being too much of follower, the Weasley boys being rather young to really impact order pecking order, and Snape' - like you said - being the odd one out in any case (I have my doubts about the "proud" part ) would be dismissed in any case..


Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 9:00 pm
StarryVeil  Female.gif StarryVeil is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 773 days
Location: Godric's Hollow
Age: 20
Posts: 168
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divvie View Post
He was behaving irresponsibly in general (egging Harry on to rebel against authority) and showed signs of not being able distinguish between being with his childhood friends and with Harry (calling Harry "James" in the MoM was a dead give-away).
Just wanted to point out that calling Harry "James" in the MoM is only a movie addition - it isn't canon at all. In the books, there isn't any evidence, IMO, that Sirius was mentally unstable to the point of not being able to distinguish between two different people. He certainly had one instance of missing his best friend and wishing Harry could take his stead, but that doesn't mean he thought Harry was James.


__________________

Picture by LaurelSKY from http://laurelsky.deviantart.com/art/...tter-170927604

"Its hooves made no mark on the soft ground as it stared at Harry with its large, silver eyes. Slowly, it bowed its antlered head. And Harry realized..."Prongs..."
- Hermione's Secret, Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 22nd, 2012, 9:12 pm
Divvie  Female.gif Divvie is offline
Student
 
Joined: 660 days
Posts: 134
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryVeil View Post
Just wanted to point out that calling Harry "James" in the MoM is only a movie addition - it isn't canon at all.
I stand corrected there, then


Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old August 9th, 2012, 7:28 pm
Verena  Undisclosed.gif Verena is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 699 days
Location: Roma (Italia)
Posts: 231
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

I was thinking that it's funny that the characters which are least loved in the story by the other characters, which have defects and downsides more marked, are the most loved by the readers. It’s so for Sirius, but also for characters like Snape and Malfoy


__________________
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old September 5th, 2012, 3:40 am
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 827 days
Posts: 440
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verena View Post
I was thinking that it's funny that the characters which are least loved in the story by the other characters, which have defects and downsides more marked, are the most loved by the readers. It’s so for Sirius, but also for characters like Snape and Malfoy
I think Sirius is pretty loved by his friends (like Remus and the Order) but not by his enemies (obviously) and maybe a little less by Molly. But I agree, his defects and downsides are more marked but I think that makes him more of an interesting character, like a Byronic hero.


Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:32 am
MsJPotter  Undisclosed.gif MsJPotter is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 1168 days
Posts: 526
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
I think Sirius is pretty loved by his friends (like Remus and the Order) but not by his enemies (obviously) and maybe a little less by Molly. But I agree, his defects and downsides are more marked but I think that makes him more of an interesting character, like a Byronic hero.
I knida think that Sirius is very like a Byronic hero. Only more likable. Byronic heroes can be a pain in that place where you sit.


Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old September 5th, 2012, 7:47 pm
Verena  Undisclosed.gif Verena is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 699 days
Location: Roma (Italia)
Posts: 231
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
But I agree, his defects and downsides are more marked but I think that makes him more of an interesting character, like a Byronic hero.
The "charm of evil character" , as well as about Snape, as I wrote before. They are very alike, except that Sirius is also a handsome man
OT: I noticed many similarities between Sirius and Severus. They have a similar character, they are very lonely men , both of them were loved very much by one person who has died (Sirius was loved like a brother by James, Severus was loved as a best friend by Lily), and both can’t forget that person.


__________________

Last edited by Verena; September 5th, 2012 at 8:00 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old September 5th, 2012, 11:16 pm
MsJPotter  Undisclosed.gif MsJPotter is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 1168 days
Posts: 526
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verena View Post
The "charm of evil character" , as well as about Snape, as I wrote before. They are very alike, except that Sirius is also a handsome man
OT: I noticed many similarities between Sirius and Severus. They have a similar character, they are very lonely men , both of them were loved very much by one person who has died (Sirius was loved like a brother by James, Severus was loved as a best friend by Lily), and both can’t forget that person.
Hmm, Sirius died much loved and grieved for by his Godson and friends. He had that love and support and he gave love and support in return. He never had to remember a time where he betrayed his best friend and I think that helped him a lot. Like Sirius said, he knew that he was alway innocent and this gave him courage and stength. Then when he escaped he found that love again from Harry and his friends in the Order.


Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old September 6th, 2012, 12:52 am
asdfasdf17  Undisclosed.gif asdfasdf17 is offline
Third Year
 
Joined: 827 days
Posts: 440
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJPotter View Post
Hmm, Sirius died much loved and grieved for by his Godson and friends. He had that love and support and he gave love and support in return. He never had to remember a time where he betrayed his best friend and I think that helped him a lot. Like Sirius said, he knew that he was alway innocent and this gave him courage and stength. Then when he escaped he found that love again from Harry and his friends in the Order.
Actually, I thought he felt really guilty for Lily and James's deaths (in PoA he tells Harry he as good as killed his parents). IIRC the fact that he hadn't actually killed them kept him sane because it wasn't a happy memory so the Dementors couldn't take it away from him.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
But yeah, he was much loved.


Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old September 6th, 2012, 9:07 am
LilyDreamsOn's Avatar
LilyDreamsOn  Female.gif LilyDreamsOn is offline
Ordo Lebes
 
Joined: 2431 days
Location: Godric's Hollow
Posts: 1,027
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

The letter from Lily shows that they got along very well. Has the letter changed your view on Sirius' relationship with his best friend's wife?

I imagine she'd have to get on well with Sirius if she was with James. Those two were like a packaged deal, they were always together. I think Sirius and Lily's friendship would have had a rocky beginning, but I think by the point of the letter they were very close. It just reinforced my feelings about them being good friends.

Why did Sirius mistrust Remus in 1981? Was Peter to blame for the rift?

I don't think Peter started it, but I think he took advantage of it and manipulated them a bit. IMO, after Sirius's prank on Snape, a pretty big rift formed between Sirius and Remus, and while they patched things up on the surface, there was always a bit of mistrust brewing beneath after that, especially for Remus. I think Sirius might have picked up on those feelings and it might have made him feel like Remus was not as trustworthy, that he was perhaps pulling away from the group over time. Of course, he could have also felt that Remus would have the most incentive to go to the dark side, as Voldemort promised werewolves a better deal under his regime than they had to begin with.

Was Sirius right in how he treated Harry? Was he a good godfather?

I think he was a great godfather, but I do think Molly had a point in that Sirius really did see Harry a bit too much like a carbon copy of James. He made the comparison a lot, and was disappointed when Harry wasn't more like his best friend. I don't think that's terrible, though... I think Harry sort of did the same in reverse, he looked for a father in Sirius. They turned to each other to get what they longed for, in a way. But they definitely still saw each other as distinct people, and not just who they wanted each other to be.

Do you think Sirius asked to be sorted into Gryffindor?

Maybe, but he had the makings all on his own. Brave, reckless, daring, adventurous, hot-headed, confrontational... total Gryffindor.


Also a bit confused about the poll... why would his dog animagus have anything to do with his friendship with Remus? If anything it would be his friendship with James... or was it a reference to Remus being a wolf?


__________________


Believe me. I never betrayed James and Lily. I would have died before I betrayed them.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old September 6th, 2012, 5:16 pm
MsJPotter  Undisclosed.gif MsJPotter is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 1168 days
Posts: 526
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
Actually, I thought he felt really guilty for Lily and James's deaths (in PoA he tells Harry he as good as killed his parents). IIRC the fact that he hadn't actually killed them kept him sane because it wasn't a happy memory so the Dementors couldn't take it away from him.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
But yeah, he was much loved.
I always figured that to be misplaced survivors guilt, He lived-they died. He wasn't the one woh betrayed them, so he had no reason to feel guilt. But Sirius was a man who took his responsibitie seriousy. James and Lily died and he was the one who recommended the plan. He trusted the wrong man and paid a high price. Part of that was his misplaced guilt. He coudn't let himself dwell on it in Azkaban, but once out he felt the loss all over again.


Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old September 9th, 2012, 12:41 pm
Verena  Undisclosed.gif Verena is offline
Second Year
 
Joined: 699 days
Location: Roma (Italia)
Posts: 231
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdfasdf17 View Post
But yeah, he was much loved.

Sorry, but I disagree. Dumbledore was much loved, Mad-eye was much loved, it’s enough to see how all the characters reacted to their death. That's not so about Sirius. The members of the Order gather in King’s Cross to tell to the Dursleys don't mistreat Harry and not to pay homage to Sirius. Harry's friends, when they are in the hospital wing after the battle to the Department of Mysteries, are very calm, happy that the wizarding community believes to their friend, they laugh. Sirius has just died, but nobody cares about this. Hermione reads the newspaper as if it were any other day ... well, Hermione didn't love Sirius ... in DH she cries for everything, but not shed a tear for Sirius. His death, 12 years of suffering in Azkaban are nothing for her, Hermione cares only for Kreacher, Sirius is just a horrible person who paid for what he did. About Harry I have already expressed my opinion, DH left me many doubts about his love for Sirius, and besides, Hermione says openly what she thinks about Sirius, but Harry makes no objections, so he demonstrates to think the same things.
So I remain of my opinion: James is the only person who truly loved Sirius.


__________________

Last edited by Verena; September 9th, 2012 at 1:51 pm.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old September 9th, 2012, 2:40 pm
wolfbrother  Male.gif wolfbrother is offline
Sixth Year
 
Joined: 2209 days
Age: 24
Posts: 1,218
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Verena View Post
Sorry, but I disagree. Dumbledore was much loved, Mad-eye was much loved, it’s enough to see how all the characters reacted to their death. That's not so about Sirius. The members of the Order gather in King’s Cross to tell to the Dursleys don't mistreat Harry and not to pay homage to Sirius. Harry's friends, when they are in the hospital wing after the battle to the Department of Mysteries, are very calm, happy that the wizarding community believes to their friend, they laugh. Sirius has just died, but nobody cares about this. Hermione reads the newspaper as if it were any other day ... well, Hermione didn't love Sirius ... in DH she cries for everything, but not shed a tear for Sirius. His death, 12 years of suffering in Azkaban are nothing for her, Hermione cares only for Kreacher, Sirius is just a horrible person who paid for what he did. About Harry I have already expressed my opinion, DH left me many doubts about his love for Sirius, and besides, Hermione says openly what she thinks about Sirius, but Harry makes no objections, so he demonstrates to think the same things.
So I remain of my opinion: James is the only person who truly loved Sirius.
We don't see their reactions to Sirius' death because Harry was busy trying to kill Bellatrix. Kings Cross happened a while later. Its the same for the Dumbledore and Moody. Everyone was happy for Harry's birthday and the wedding.

As for Harry's friend's reactions, they were the same a day or so after Dumbledore's and Moody's death. We just didn't witness their initial shock. The tears were there during Dumbledore's funeral. I'm sure seeing Sirius' dead body in front of them would have caused a few tears. I also think part of the reason Ron and Hermione didn't talk about Sirius was because Harry didn't want to talk about it. He'd leave as soon as the topic came up. I'm sure they spoke about him when Harry was not around.

So, while not everyone loved Sirius or felt too strongly about him, Harry definitely did and IMO Remus as well.


Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old September 10th, 2012, 10:35 am
MsJPotter  Undisclosed.gif MsJPotter is offline
Banned
 
Joined: 1168 days
Posts: 526
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
We don't see their reactions to Sirius' death because Harry was busy trying to kill Bellatrix. Kings Cross happened a while later. Its the same for the Dumbledore and Moody. Everyone was happy for Harry's birthday and the wedding.

As for Harry's friend's reactions, they were the same a day or so after Dumbledore's and Moody's death. We just didn't witness their initial shock. The tears were there during Dumbledore's funeral. I'm sure seeing Sirius' dead body in front of them would have caused a few tears. I also think part of the reason Ron and Hermione didn't talk about Sirius was because Harry didn't want to talk about it. He'd leave as soon as the topic came up. I'm sure they spoke about him when Harry was not around.

So, while not everyone loved Sirius or felt too strongly about him, Harry definitely did and IMO Remus as well.
I kind of think that it's made very plain that Harry was devastated when Sirius was killed. And Remus, Remus' pain would have been huge. Sirius was like his brother. And who wouldn't love Sirius, The Last Cavalier?


Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old September 10th, 2012, 3:37 pm
MerryLore's Avatar
MerryLore  Female.gif MerryLore is offline
Seventh Year
 
Joined: 1050 days
Location: catagorizing Sev's books
Posts: 1,623
Re: Sirius Black: Character Analysis v.5

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfbrother View Post
So, while not everyone loved Sirius or felt too strongly about him, Harry definitely did and IMO Remus as well.
I think Harry loved the image of the man he knew - Sirius was a connection to his family and knew his parents, and was Harry's chance of having a real family he could connect with, and get away from the Dursleys. I don't Harry ever got to know the actual man. And I think Sirius also saw Harry through the filter of his friendship with James, and he never knew Harry as his own person. If Sirius had lived beyond the war, things may have been different, I think, but they didn't have enough time together.

Sirius and Remus' relationship was strained, i think. I believe Remus would have had issues with being set up to commit murder, and then when Remus was suspected as being the traitor by James and Sirius and not trusted, it would have been an additional blow to any friendship they may have had, IMHO.

I think Sirius was only deeply mourned by Harry, and Harry was mourning an image. I think had Sirius lived and he and Harry really gotten to know each other, he and Harry may have been able to have a close relationship, but it's hard to say.


__________________
avatar by me and WB, banner by Dark_Disciple

When I'm 80 years old and sitting in my rocking chair, I'll be reading Harry Potter.
My family will say to me, “After all this time?
And I will say, “Always.
- source unknown

owlcat207 - first batch - Proud Member of the House of the Dancing Cupcakes
Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back  Chamber of Secrets > Harry Potter > The Stone > Legilimency Studies

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 7:57 am.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Original content is Copyright © MMII - MMVIII, CoSForums.com. All Rights Reserved.
Other content (posts, images, etc) is Copyright © its respective owners.