Peter Pettigrew: Character Analysis

[Hes]

Please guys remember, no Pottermore character info allowed in discussion threads until Pottermore is out of beta. Thanks.

[MinervasCat]

Garwain, your statements about Peter and Neville, and JKR's emphasis on choices kind of made the little light bulb go off, duh. Like why didn't it occur to me before?:

Peter and Neville appear to be another of JKR's parallels, (I'm sure this has been picked up on before): both barely talented in magic, both very awkward, both potential targets for bullying and ridicule.

But, IMO, that's where the likeness ends. Even though Neville was terrible at most of his subjects and was not included in any of Harry's and Ron's (at first) and Hermione's adventures in SS/PS, he did not demean himself or do whatever had to be done to work his way into a group for protection. He took his lumps, from people like Draco, with some support from Harry, but little or no real assistance.

Not that he got in the way of the Trio's adventures, at least until the end -- but, on the night they were going to go "save" the Sorcerer's Stone, Neville'd had enough of seeing his House lose points because of them and stood up to his Housemates, who had become his friends. He tried to keep them from causing his House to lose additional points for their breaking curfew. He was going to fight all three, if necessary.

So, Neville shows that he's made a choice to separate himself from them when he knew they were wrong, and he shows courage (a Gryffindor trait that Dumbledore later rewards). He chose to stand and fight against the current "Hogwarts' Celebrity" Harry Potter. IMO, it took a lot of guts to stand up to Harry. He was the darling of the Wizarding World. Neville's Gran must have told him all about Harry as he seemed aware of Harry's being special right from the start. Yet he was still willing to stand up to him for what was right.

In Peter, we see just the opposite. IMO, he needs to belong so desperately that he's willing to do anything, break rules, allow himself to be demeaned, put himself through whatever he had to do to learn to turn into a rat, of all things, and was not willing to take any stands that he thought would cause his friends to turn against him and possibly (at least in his mind) make him the center of their entertainment. He chose to go along to be "popular" and protected.

I think Peter chose the path that, while no easier than Neville's, awarded him protection and he could bask in the reflected popularity of the other Marauders. He was safe from any other bullies, as well, due to his status as a member of that group. He could go on their adventures and be "special" along with them. It may have been the best time of his life.

But, then, when the bigger, nastier dog in the form of Voldemort, came along, Peter threw in with him. And, when that didn't pan out, he set up one of his former friends and went into hiding. Knowing he was a pariah in the WW, he made another choice: to go find the near-vanquished Voldemort and help him regenerate, hoping he was still going to end up on top.

Maybe it did take courage to cut off his finger, but, I look at it more as an act of desperation than courage -- like cutting off an arm or leg that's trapped in order to escape and save your life. Is that courage or instinct to survive? He cut off his hand in GoF, but what was the alternative -- an AK?

We see him back to his role as toady and go-fer after that, allowing Snape to belittle him at Spinner's End, allowing Voldemort to belittle him at every opportunity. He does show a modicum of courage when he suggests that there might be some other way for LV to regenerate without Harry (again, his sense of the life-debt he owed Harry), and then when he hesitates and gets throttled by his own hand. But, those two brief moments were just minor compared to all of the belly-crawling that he seemed to do to get where and what he wanted.

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by Garwain

[b]. His role goes from the embarrassing pet rat to a traitor of a man, and in the end he becomes a character who is widely regarded as possibly the most 'disgusting' person introduced in the HP series.

I'm confused. I thought it was animagus, then traitor, then embarrassing pet rat, then Voldy locator/lackey.

My guess is that the Sorting Hat takes into account that which we value most. I think Pettigrew valued bravery in others and wished he was brave himself. He was drawn to the courageous and I think the Hat saw that in him, just as it would have seen it in Neville. Pettigrew's failing, I think, was turning his back on his own sense of self-worth and bravery and instead choosing to rely on others to prop himself up. Neville, on the other had, discovered his worth and became the man he was meant to be.

[Taquiq]

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

Maybe it did take courage to cut off his finger, but, I look at it more as an act of desperation than courage -- like cutting off an arm or leg that's trapped in order to escape and save your life. Is that courage or instinct to survive? He cut off his hand in GoF, but what was the alternative -- an AK?

I've always thought he was scared to disobey Voldemort, so he cut off his finger out of fear, probably of getting AK'ed by Voldemort.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by Taquiq

I've always thought he was scared to disobey Voldemort, so he cut off his finger out of fear, probably of getting AK'ed by Voldemort.

Don't you mean his hand in GoF? He cut off his finger after Voldemort was vaporized at Godric's Hollow.

[MinervasCat]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Don't you mean his hand in GoF? He cut off his finger after Voldemort was vaporized at Godric's Hollow.

Correct, snapes_witch. He cut off his finger and left it while setting Sirius up to take the blame for killing him and all the Muggles around him. I'm not sure it showed courage. To me it was like an animal in a trap, chewing off it's own leg. IMO, he did it for self-preservation because it helped him cover his tracks better when he disappeared and almost assured that Sirius was going to go away for a long, long time. Just think how evil, to kill that poor little Peter Pettigrew and only leave a finger...what a terrible person. If Peter hadn't left anything there might have been some doubts as to whether he did escape. By leaving a finger, it was "proof" he'd been blown to smithereens.

When he cut off his hand in the graveyard Voldemort had not regenerated yet, but, I think Wormtail knew it was only a matter of time before a Bella or Bart, Jr. type DE would help him. Better to help Voldy himself, by cutting off his hand, than to be killed for not doing so. And, doubtful he'd have been killed outright. Voldy seemed to enjoy watching his victims suffer as much as possible before killing them. So, Wormy, I think, figured it was better to lose a hand than to face Voldemort's wrath when he did return to full strength. He always seemed to do whatever he had to in order to survive.

[GrimeldaDursley]

In a nutshell, Peter made the choice between what was right, and what was easy. We all know which one he chose.

[Taquiq]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Don't you mean his hand in GoF? He cut off his finger after Voldemort was vaporized at Godric's Hollow.

Ah, yes. I meant his hand.

[MinervasCat]

Originally Posted by GrimeldaDursley

In a nutshell, Peter made the choice between what was right, and what was easy. We all know which one he chose.

You're right. Peter made his choices. The thng is, he had alternatives, but chose to go with the side he thought was going to win.

I'm not sure if it was a matter of "what was easy" or "what be the best for Peter Pettigrew." A lot of the things he did I don't think were that easy, but they also weren't a matter of courage. They were just a matter of doing what helped him survive.

When you think of framing Sirius, remaining in a rat form for 12 years, returning to Voldemort and making sure he knew that Peter had not set him up to get nearly vaporized at the Potters', helping Voldy regenerate by sacrificing his hand, being sent to watch Snape, being the "guard" for the "guests" at Malfoy Manor -- none of those were that easy, IMO, but they were what helped Peter survive.

And, I'm not sure it was easy being a toady and butt of the jokes of the Marauders, but, I think it beat the alternative, as far as Peter was concerned, and that was to be out there alone and the possible target of bullying by them or other groups during his school years. He certainly couldn't have thought very highly of himself at any time that we see him, since he was willing to grovel, beg, and do any number of other things to keep himself "safe."

That does bring up a question: "Wormtail" was the Marauders' nickname for him, and all of their nicknames were kind of inside jokes. Yet both Snape and Voldemort address him by that name. I wonder how they found out what his Marauder nickname was? Did he tell them? "Wormtail" is not the most flattering of nicknames -- one wouldn't think he'd want to spread it around, but, again, was this another matter of survival...of giving someone what seemed like an upper hand so that he could just slide under the radar and stay safe?

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by MerryLore

My guess is that the Sorting Hat takes into account that which we value most. I think Pettigrew valued bravery in others and wished he was brave himself. He was drawn to the courageous and I think the Hat saw that in him, just as it would have seen it in Neville. Pettigrew's failing, I think, was turning his back on his own sense of self-worth and bravery and instead choosing to rely on others to prop himself up. Neville, on the other had, discovered his worth and became the man he was meant to be.

I think Peter is like the flip-side of Snape. Snape was originally sorted into Slytherin but Dumbledore comments later that he may have done well in Gryffindor and "perhaps we sort too early."

Peter, on the other hand, arrived as Hogwarts and was sorted into Gryffindor but may have done well in Slytherin since he is clearly self-serving, though perhaps not ambitious.

I posted about the sorting hat's inconsistencies before (whether it sorts based on your 11-year-old personality or values or whatever or your future potential) but in both Snape and Peter's cases the hat sorted them based on who they were when they arrived at school and it just so happens that they both did major about-faces in certain aspects of their lives or certain traits or values became more dominent later in their lives that might have warranted sorting them into a different house as adults.

Never thought of the Peter/Snape correlation before though. Interesting.

[Alfine]

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

That does bring up a question: "Wormtail" was the Marauders' nickname for him, and all of their nicknames were kind of inside jokes. Yet both Snape and Voldemort address him by that name. I wonder how they found out what his Marauder nickname was? Did he tell them? "Wormtail" is not the most flattering of nicknames -- one wouldn't think he'd want to spread it around, but, again, was this another matter of survival...of giving someone what seemed like an upper hand so that he could just slide under the radar and stay safe?

Lily did know about this nickname as well, I guess in her letter to Sirius she even calls Wormtail "Wormy"; sometimes there are nicknames that just spread and sooner or later everyone knows about them.
But perhaps LV found out coincidentially through Legilimency? I don't think he looked for Peter's nickname, but perhaps he used Legilimency on him for some other reasons, for example to be sure he's loyal to him, and found out about the nickname.


However, Peter is a constant topic of discussion between my girlfriend and me xD
I don't want to think of the younger Peter as a necessary stupid and good-for-nothing boy; but like someone pointed out one page before, there are similarities to Neville. I see them, too! xD
And I don't really like the way JKR portrays the relationship of the marauders in general; I don't remeber the exact words, but Lupin explains to Harry (I guess in POA, but I'm not sure) that Peter wouldn't have gotten along without them, that he, without James and Sirius, wouldn't have managed to become an animagus.
Even if that's what Lupin thinks, I mean, they were somehow friends, weren't they? Even if Peter was not that talented, he was their friend.
He is not a character I particulary like, but I feel sorry for him on some occasions.

[BrianTung]

Originally Posted by Alfine

And I don't really like the way JKR portrays the relationship of the marauders in general; I don't remeber the exact words, but Lupin explains to Harry (I guess in POA, but I'm not sure) that Peter wouldn't have gotten along without them, that he, without James and Sirius, wouldn't have managed to become an animagus.
Even if that's what Lupin thinks, I mean, they were somehow friends, weren't they? Even if Peter was not that talented, he was their friend.
He is not a character I particulary like, but I feel sorry for him on some occasions.

But perhaps that relationship was part of the motivation for Peter to betray his friends? ("I'll show them!" he might have thought--and I even think that kind of thinking might have explained his Sorting into Gryffindor.) With that in mind, his actions assume a more tragic aspect, rather than just being base and cowardly.

Also, let's remember that Lupin might not be interested in portraying their relationship objectively, as he may also be trying to encourage Harry.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by MinervasCat

"Wormtail" was the Marauders' nickname for him, and all of their nicknames were kind of inside jokes. Yet both Snape and Voldemort address him by that name. I wonder how they found out what his Marauder nickname was? Did he tell them? "Wormtail" is not the most flattering of nicknames -- one wouldn't think he'd want to spread it around, but, again, was this another matter of survival...of giving someone what seemed like an upper hand so that he could just slide under the radar and stay safe?

Originally Posted by Alfine

Lily did know about this nickname as well, I guess in her letter to Sirius she even calls Wormtail "Wormy"; sometimes there are nicknames that just spread and sooner or later everyone knows about them.

I think to a certain extent Peter was probably proud of the nickname his friends had given him - or he may even have given himself. who knows if "wormtail" was actually the better of the choices they had all come up with? He may have liked the nickname and told the DEs to use it and Voldemort used it as a way to passify Peter and curry even more favor by allowing Peter be refered to by the name he chose and would therefore feel more of an affection or affinity for LV and the DEs... weird but maybe.

And I don't really like the way JKR portrays the relationship of the marauders in general; I don't remeber the exact words, but Lupin explains to Harry (I guess in POA, but I'm not sure) that Peter wouldn't have gotten along without them, that he, without James and Sirius, wouldn't have managed to become an animagus.
Even if that's what Lupin thinks, I mean, they were somehow friends, weren't they? Even if Peter was not that talented, he was their friend.
He is not a character I particulary like, but I feel sorry for him on some occasions.

Yes, they were all still friends but it's clear that Sirius and James were much closer to each other than Sirius was to Remus or Peter and just because you're friends with someone doesn't mean you can't still hold a little bit of a negative view of them. My best friend whines day and night about all kinds of things and it drives me crazy but she's my best friend and it comes with her personality. Similarly, Peter's lack of academic skill doesn't mean that James Sirius and Remus wouldn't have stayed friends with him. They helped him become an animagus because he was their friend and it probably helped boost his grades and increase his confidence which were probably things his friends wanted for him anyway. I agree he probably wasn't as skilled at schoolwork or advanced magic as his friends but that doesn't mean he didn't have other qualities his friends valued. He might have been a really great strategarian (I just made that word up) =^D and might have been really good at planting or being a decoy for their mischief.

Originally Posted by BrianTung

But perhaps that relationship was part of the motivation for Peter to betray his friends? ("I'll show them!" he might have thought--and I even think that kind of thinking might have explained his Sorting into Gryffindor.) With that in mind, his actions assume a more tragic aspect, rather than just being base and cowardly.

I also agree here. While I do think Peter was valued within the Marauders I think also that he became disillusioned to them, and began feeling undervalued once they joined the Order and there were suddenly other people to play the decoy and come up with good ideas.

I think Peter is an incredibly complex character, more than people give him credit for being, and his motivations behind flipping sides like he did are also really multi-layered.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by Alfine

However, Peter is a constant topic of discussion between my girlfriend and me xD
I don't want to think of the younger Peter as a necessary stupid and good-for-nothing boy; but like someone pointed out one page before, there are similarities to Neville. I see them, too! xD

Similarities to Neville are not a bad thing, IMO. But I think the differences stand out rather more prominently - Neville, at eleven had the courage to stand up to his only friends when he thought they were doing wrong; he had the courage at fifteen and at seventeen to stand up to some of the greatest evil in the wizaridng community. Neville turned down the option to be spared and become a DE, whereas Peter...took the easy option.
Grades and clumsiness are a minor similarity, the difference in choices are vastly different -and I think this illustrates Dumbledore's point about how choices say a lot more about someone than their abilities.

And I don't really like the way JKR portrays the relationship of the marauders in general; I don't remeber the exact words, but Lupin explains to Harry (I guess in POA, but I'm not sure) that Peter wouldn't have gotten along without them, that he, without James and Sirius, wouldn't have managed to become an animagus.

Even if that's what Lupin thinks, I mean, they were somehow friends, weren't they? Even if Peter was not that talented, he was their friend.
He is not a character I particulary like, but I feel sorry for him on some occasions.

Lupin said that, after realising that Peter was the spy, the traitor who had destroyed so many lives. I think that would colour his perception of Peter all those years later. At the time, I don't think he would have been disdainful of Peter's perceived lack of skills, because whatever Peter's skills, a friendship is not built on a person's grades. Like the trio's friendship - Hermione was friends with Harry and Ron and their grades did not come into it. The trio were friends with Neville, and his grades did not come into it. Peter was a part of the Marauders, but his grades did not come into it.
Knowing that Peter was a traitor, it becomes something to scorn.

Originally Posted by BrianTung

But perhaps that relationship was part of the motivation for Peter to betray his friends? ("I'll show them!" he might have thought--and I even think that kind of thinking might have explained his Sorting into Gryffindor.) With that in mind, his actions assume a more tragic aspect, rather than just being base and cowardly.

I think that would make his actions seem even worse than if he were acting only out of fear, IMO. If he betrayed them because he was afraid, and was too cowardly to turn to his friends or to Dumbledore and let them know what was happening. I think that's one thing, even if I find it extremely dislikeable.

However, if he betrayed them because he felt he wasn't getting enough attention or wasn't popular enough, I find that a whole other level of self-absorbed, malicious and disturbing. It would strike me as emotionally disturbed and completely despicable to help to get one's friends - or anyone, for that matter - murdered because he wasn't getting enough attention or appreciation and if that was his motivation, I would have even less sympathy for Peter than I do now.

I'll admit that I don't think his actions had anything to do with how they treated him - I think he was simply looking out for number one and believed that Voldemort was likely to win the war. I think, that like his master, he believed that any kind of wretched existence was better than death.

[Goddess_Clio]

Continued from The Marauders Group Analysis thread:

My take is that Pettigrew didn't fit in Slytherin because he had no ambition. He was content to be picked on and kicked around as long as it meant he would be protected. Likewise, he was not loyal or hardworking so he would not fit in Hufflepuff and he didn't have the intelligence or academic interest for Ravenclaw. All Pettigrew had was a small amount of courage enabling him to do the things he did - confrontint Sirius, cutting off his own hand, etc... Courage in and of itself is not limited to good deeds - it takes courage to do bad things as well. What Pettigrew lacked - in terms of Gryffindor traits - was nobility. That's all I'm going to put here - there is a thread specific to this topic if you want to expore it further.

For me, what Peter lacked in ambition he more than made up for in cunning and personal preservation instincts and I think both of those traits far outweighed whatever courage he had in the actions he partook in.

[arithmancer]

"Personal preservation traits" are not a trait the Sorting Hat ever mentions for Slytherin.

Re: Peter - I still like the idea (never confirmed or denied anywhere that I know of) that he is Muggleborn. This is as far as he could be from Pureblood, which is mentioned as a Sorting characteristic. It would also provide a reason why, apparently, no one suspected him as the spy during the first war.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by arithmancer

"Personal preservation traits" are not a trait the Sorting Hat ever mentions for Slytherin.

Not a trait from the sorting hat, no, but a trait mentioned by Phineas Nigellus, a former Head of Slytherin House, which to me means he's a fairly reliable source of info on what traits it takes to be in Slytherin:

OotP, Chrsitmas on the Closed Ward "Running away, are we?" He [Harry] looked around. Phineas Nigellus had appeared upon the canvas of his portrait and was leaning against the frame, watching Harry with an amused expression on his face. "Not running away, no," said Harry shortly, dragging his trunk a few more feet across the room." "I thought," said Phineas Nigellus, stroking his pointed beard, "that to belong in Gryffindor House you were supposed to be brave? It looks to me as though you would have been better off in my own house. We Slytherins are brave, yes, but not stupid. For instance, when given the choice, we will always choose to save our own necks."

For me this says the Slytherins have a self-preservation trait that the sorting hat hadn't talked about (or maybe the sorting hat did mention this trait but it was in COS or POA when Harry missed the sorting... tricky business!) Obviously, though, all traits appear in different quantities in each student. Draco certainly had this trait while Snape seemed to overcome it if he did have it. Peter appears to have had this trait in spades.

Re: Peter - I still like the idea (never confirmed or denied anywhere that I know of) that he is Muggleborn. This is as far as he could be from Pureblood, which is mentioned as a Sorting characteristic. It would also provide a reason why, apparently, no one suspected him as the spy during the first war.

I thought he would either be a muggleborn or a half blood. He didn't strike me as a pureblood and having him be a muggleborn would round out the Marauders - two purebloods, one half-blood-half-breed (Remus) and one muggleborn. Though I rather like to think of Peter as a product of two half-blood parents which, I guess, makes him a sort of half-blood pureblood thing (pure blood in that he's born of two magical parents but not a pureblood in the sense that his lineage is pure in the way Draco's or James's or Sirius's lineage is pure. In that sense he's still a sort of half blood.)

[MerryLore]

From the Death Eater's Group Character Analysis Thread

Originally Posted by FurryDice

Or, as in canon, Peter joined because he wanted to save his own skin. Peter did not join the Death Eaters to witness torture; he joined because he would rather betray those closest to him than die.

Rowling interview, underlining mine Nithya: Lily detested mulciber,averyif snape really loved her,why didnt he sacrifice their company for her sake J.K. Rowling: Well, that is Snape’s tragedy. Given his time over again he would not have become a Death Eater, but like many insecure, vulnerable people (like Wormtail) he craved membership of something big and powerful, something impressive.

http://www.mugglenet.com/jkr/intervi...-webchat.shtml

IMHO, Peter craved power, I think. He was fearful himself, and felt weak (a mouse) and thought that by joining bullies - "the biggest bullies on the playground" is how i think Sirius described it - he would be protected and have power by association. Typically, if you are part of the group which is doing the oppressing, or appear to support it, it helps save you yourself from being a target, and it also gives you power by association from belonging to the group. I personally see nothing contradictory from Sirius' quote and Rowling's quote, and my personal opinion.

[arithmancer]

To me it seems clear that the proximate cause of Peter's joining of the Death Eaters was some sort of threat or pressure that was applied to him. That said, the evidence we have also shows that Peter remained secretly a Death Eater for about a year before the Potters' death. And in looking for explanations of that I find myself looking more widely through the books to understand the character. Because he could have tried to get himself out of that situation in various ways, and he could have abstained from harmful actions that he took. (For example, he agreed to be the Potters' Secret Keeper - he could have declined).

And in looking for reasons why he stayed, I see his depiction as a schoolboy, both as we see it in "Snape's Worst Memory" and as Sirius and Lupin convey their memories, relevant. He had wound up a follower of "the biggest bully" in the adult world, and that he stayed with it, matches a pattern of behavior shown to us from his past.

[horcrux4]

Originally Posted by arithmancer

To me it seems clear that the proximate cause of Peter's joining of the Death Eaters was some sort of threat or pressure that was applied to him. That said, the evidence we have also shows that Peter remained secretly a Death Eater for about a year before the Potters' death. And in looking for explanations of that I find myself looking more widely through the books to understand the character. Because he could have tried to get himself out of that situation in various ways, and he could have abstained from harmful actions that he took. (For example, he agreed to be the Potters' Secret Keeper - he could have declined).

And in looking for reasons why he stayed, I see his depiction as a schoolboy, both as we see it in "Snape's Worst Memory" and as Sirius and Lupin convey their memories, relevant. He had wound up a follower of "the biggest bully" in the adult world, and that he stayed with it, matches a pattern of behavior shown to us from his past.

I agree with what you are saying. I think when Peter arrived at Hogwarts he was a cowardly and not very bright boy who admired James and Sirius who 'adopted' him as part of their gang. He must (IMO) have been excited to be a friend of the two most popular boys in Gryffindor but it never struck me that James and Sirius really treated him as an equal - they were quite rude to him in SWM. Why did they choose him as a Marauder? Did they need his admiration?

When Voldemort approached him (and I assume it was that way round) the cowardly and not very bright boy didn't seem to dare to stand up against him. I think Peter felt that turning against his former friends was the only way to save his own skin - he certainly didn't seem to feel any real loyalty to them. He didn't need to tell Voldemort he was the Secret Keeper - Voldemort would not have known. Perhaps he saw Voldemort as the probable victor in the war they were all involved in and wanted to be sure he was on the winning side. He killed a dozen Muggles in his escape from Sirius and setting Sirius up to take the rap which is probably one of the worst acts of murder we hear about.

After Sirius' return from Azkaban and Peter's escape, why did he go hunting Voldemort in Albania? How did he know Voldemort was still alive? How did he know where to find him? Why did he help him to return? Peter seems to get deeper and deeper into the 'bad' side and yet he continued to be despised and looked down on by Voldemort and the DEs. Whatever he did never seemed to be appreciated by anyone.