Lily Evans Potter: Character Analysis

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by crowheart

This is all my hypothesis of what Snape would have thought, so it maybe really doesn't belong on the Lily thread, but I'll be happy to take it to the Snape thread if you want!

No, but Lily's relationship with both is important. If you think James tricked her into a relationship, then it's quite a strong opinion that the relationship was based on fraud.

I avoid the Snape threads at the moment; they are like minefields

[Lucretia]

Severus never expressed any bitterness toward Lily over her marrying James. He might have completely blamed James. But I don't know if he'd be convinced James tricked Lily into it; he might also have blamed himself for not being good enough for Lily.

[missbrunettgirl]

Severus never expressed any bitterness toward Lily over her marrying James. He might have completely blamed James. But I don't know if he'd be convinced James tricked Lily into it; he might also have blamed himself for not being good enough for Lily.

Well said! By the way I love your pictures Lucrtia!

[crowheart]

Originally Posted by sweets7

No, but Lily's relationship with both is important. If you think James tricked her into a relationship, then it's quite a strong opinion that the relationship was based on fraud.

I avoid the Snape threads at the moment; they are like minefields

Oh, no, no. I don't think James actually tricked her into a relationship, though I do think the relationship was not entirely honest. I was speculating on what Snape the character might think of the relationship.

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by crowheart

Oh, no, no. I don't think James actually tricked her into a relationship, though I do think the relationship was not entirely honest. I was speculating on what Snape the character might think of the relationship.

Oh okay, well, I figure he was gutted, but he wouldn't be the first to watch the person that he loved, fall in love and marry someone else. He won't be the first either, that saw his beloved marry a nemesis.

I am sure it intensified his hatred of James, but I doubt he thought that James had tricked Lily.
.

[Emperor_Gestahl]

Originally Posted by Lucretia

Severus never expressed any bitterness toward Lily over her marrying James. He might have completely blamed James. But I don't know if he'd be convinced James tricked Lily into it; he might also have blamed himself for not being good enough for Lily.

Meh, I doubt he blamed himself that much... He still joined the Death Eaters after all.

[Ifink2much]

Originally Posted by crowheart

Oh, no, no. I don't think James actually tricked her into a relationship, though I do think the relationship was not entirely honest. I was speculating on what Snape the character might think of the relationship.

I know what you mean,it's the question of if she didn't know about hexing that how accurate was her opnion.But even though I'm not a big James fan I think Lily did get to know him quite well by the time they married.

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by Ifink2much

I know what you mean,it's the question of if she didn't know about hexing that how accurate was her opnion.But even though I'm not a big James fan I think Lily did get to know him quite well by the time they married.

Well most married couples know each other pretty damp well and she was confiding in Sirius about his antsy behaviour in the letter Harry found in DH.

[Ifink2much]

Originally Posted by sweets7

Well most married couples know each other pretty damp well and she was confiding in Sirius about his antsy behaviour in the letter Harry found in DH.

Not all couples.And I was just saying,no need to attack.I was speaking in their favour.

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by Ifink2much

Not all couples.And I was just saying,no need to attack.I was speaking in their favour.

I wasn't attacking, sorry if you thought I was. I find all the James and Lily speculation quite interesting in a baffling way, because in reality all we know is that: she thought he was an idiot, he outgrew being an idiot, they dated, they married, they had Harry and they died. I mean we know more about Lily and Snape.

It is really only a few memories and the idea of them that we know.

[Ifink2much]

Originally Posted by sweets7

I wasn't attacking, sorry if you thought I was. I find all the James and Lily speculation quite interesting in a baffling way, because in reality all we know is that: she thought he was an idiot, he outgrew being an idiot, they dated, they married, they had Harry and they died. I mean we know more about Lily and Snape.

It is really only a few memories and the idea of them that we know.

Right sorry about that,some poeple aren't really open to negative commentary.
Though that was a good summerization of what happened.Actually it wasn't a summery,that was pretty much it.
Strange how one chapter gave us so much isn't it?

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by Ifink2much

Strange how one chapter gave us so much isn't it?

That chapter gave the us the whole reason for the series in the first, told a lot.

[Beatifically]

Lily chose not to forgive Snape for calling her "mudblood" - why was this the last straw for her? Do you think she would have reconsidered this decision had she lived?
I think this was the last straw because at that point she finally realized the person Snape was becoming. Snape was a lot better when they first met, and the changes were something she couldn't tolerate, I think. She knew he was hoping to join the Death Eaters, and she couldn't handle that.
Honestly, I have no clue if she would've changed her decision if she had lived. Snape went on the good side because of the threat on Lily's life. If she continued to live, would Snape have ever moved to the good side? If he did, I'm sure she would've rekindled their friendship.

[Lucretia]

Originally Posted by Emperor_Gestahl

Meh, I doubt he blamed himself that much... He still joined the Death Eaters after all.

JKR said part of the reason he joined the DEs was that he was insecure. So of course he would've blamed himself....His thought process was that Lily must've chosen James over him because James did big, impressive things: He was popular, he saved Snape's life, he was a Quidditch hero, and his family was rich and well respected. Snape wanted to be a part of something impressive too and honestly believed Lily would've liked him better as a Death Eater. Deluded as he was, he joined the DEs thinking that would make him good enough for Lily. I don't really mean he expected for them to get back together, but it was all in his thought process...

[eternitygoddess]

Lily Evans is wayyy too perfect for my liking.

The harry potter series isn't focused on relationships. It's focused on good vs. evil and friendship and loyalty.

Hence the reason why we don't see every relationship developed very much (ex Lupin and Tonks, Harry and Ginny). This isn't the "How-Lily-and-James-fell-in-Love" book.

I do wish Rowling would make a statement instead of letting her readers battle it over.

[Chris]

I think that JK enjoys letting the fans speculate away - so she leaves things open-ended on purpose.

Of all the characters, we do have the least "negative" information on Lily. She likely wasn't perfect, but we only have Petunia saying negative words about her. Heck, even Voldemort (sarcastically) speaks well of her, and he's the one who killed her!

[Ifink2much]

I found Lily a little too perfect upto DH,but it changed for me.Lily comes off not as someone who alwasy achieves her aims(rebuilding her sistership,her freindship with Snape)but she comes off as someon who doesn't stop trying(as best she can).This is what I like about her,her efforts ,not her achievements.

[eternitygoddess]

I think that JK enjoys letting the fans speculate away - so she leaves things open-ended on purpose.

I wish she'd sometimes come out and give a solid opinion so readers can stop dueling and interpreting every little word.

[sweets7]

Originally Posted by eternitygoddess

I wish she'd sometimes come out and give a solid opinion so readers can stop dueling and interpreting every little word.

All books have these character ambiguities and they are all subjective. I mean I remember studying English Literature, and getting so baffled by the constant analysing of what a author meant here and there; sometimes it is ridiculous and if they saw how we pulled their books/plays/poems apart they would probably sit back with a glass of wine, and look on in bafflement.

No other author answers questions about their characters and plot like JKR does. If she has to keep answering questions for things to become clear, then she hasn't written a complete or coherent book. All the answers should be there, and I think they are, we have been told all we ever needed to know. It is reader subjectivity that is coming into play otherwise. It is just that people want to know everything, and really that isn't possible. I agree relationships were never the focus of these books so if we are told that such and such are in love we have to accept it, I doubt she was dissembling.

I was watching ‘Newsnight Review’ review of Deathly Hallows (for anyone who doesn’t know that is a very high brow review discussion panel on the BBC) and they made the point about all the characters being shape shifters and incredibly morally ambiguous, and how Snape was the most interesting. I think what I am trying to say is that it is all subjective and we all have our own opinions on everything.

[kaeluhe]

Something has been bothering me about Lily Evans ever since we saw her in OotP, and I thought I'd bring it up here to see if anyone else felt the same way (or even completely different) than I did.

In OotP, Harry comes a long way in realizing that James wasn't as perfect as he had always imagined him to be. I really liked that, because it showed that James was human, just like all of us, and Harry was seeming to idolize him - especially with Sirius and Remus around so frequently.

However, through OotP and now DH, Lily was never shown to have flaws. To some extent, Jo has done this with both Potter women (Lily and Ginny) in that neither have completely obvious flaws...and dare I say it, seem to be Mary-Sues. Now, don't get me wrong. Lily Evans is my favorite character, and I do like Ginny a lot. So this has been sort of nagging at me for some time, so if anyone could point out some flaws for Lily, I'd greatly appreciate it.

So I suppose I'm truly asking:

1. What are Lily Evans's flaws (both as a student at Hogwarts and as a married adult)?
2. Why do you feel that Jo did not portray her with flaws? If you feel that she did, why do you think she made them subtle flaws instead of say, Sirius's obvious recklessness that ultimately resulted in his death?
3. Is there a correlation between a lot of people liking Lily (being popular) and a lot of people liking Ginny (also being popular) in that neither seem to have any major flaws?

I'd love your thoughts!