All about Goblins

[Kendra]

So we've seen through the series that Goblins are not to be messed with. They're strong, tricksy and powerful. Harry's encounter with Griphook raised questions about magical communications between goblins and humans.

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?

[Hes]

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?

Both sides are full of distrust and prejudice, I guess this has been going on through the ages. There will only be change if the wizards are prepared to treat goblins as their equal. With the right kind of people at the Ministry that's possible.

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?

I think Bill and Dumbledore had good connections with the Goblins, both seem to know how Goblins tick. Bill warned Harry for a reason, he knew about their greed and sense of ownership after so many years working for and with them.

Fudge, Scrimgeour and Ludo Bagman saw Goblins as unworthy non human creatures that they could use for their own purposes. They underestimated the intelligence and determination of the Goblins. Especially Bagman found this out and suffered from it.

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?

Well Gringotts is their life, it was logical they would defend it with their lives and keep to their rules. If they hadn't they would have lost the trust of their customers. I don't think they used violence after the trio left. They probably restored the damage.


Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?

Nah no rebellion, I think they will talk to the Ministry and come to an agreement. I can see them use their control over the Wizard riches to get more favorable regulations.

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?

Stuff their gold under their beds... I think that Gringotts would be attacked, especially by the richer families.

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?

I think it might have been up to the individual goblin. Some goblins suffered from Voldemort's first terror. They wouldn't want to join someone that had gotten their families murdered killed or tortured.

Others might have liked Voldemort, although I can't really believe that under the Ministry in DH the Goblins had a good life, those in Gringotts might have had, but others?

[wickedwickedboy]

Well I can't answer all those questions. But one thing I thought when the goblins were explored in the book: It was an example of how JKR seemed to draw a line among the magical creatures. Even the 'good' goblins were untrust worthy and somehow "bad". I didn't really like the way they were handled. Same with vampires, giants and werewolves. It seemed like only the "pretty" creatures that did not hurt humans were honored - veelas, mermaids, elves, etc. I guess you have to have good and evil creatures, it was just kind of sad seeing the same old creatures once again being villianized. It would have been great to have seen more than 4 from this group actually help out on the good side, or at least be portrayed as being all right for what they were.

[espada]

The two races have had a rough history, because goblins generally recognise themselves equals to humans and deserve wands just as much as wizards or witches do. Following on that, humans have always viewed anything that was not human deserved less rights and priviledges as humans do. Wizards and witches want to be in control of all creatures, even themselves, by giving goblins a wand, they would not have that control.

Some wizards do respect goblins as their equals possibly even higher, in the case of Dumbledore and Bill, some wizards do not discriminate against them, but they do only view them as equals, nothing more or less, like Ludo Bagman, Scrimgeour, and Fudge.

The goblins choice of power is certainly a debate were the arguing points are numerous, but they seem to have accepted the fact that they were given responsibility over the wizarding treasury, that to them is probably a sign of respect and equality.

The goblins wont close Gringotts, mainly because thats the only thing they have control of over the wizards and witches. If they do, then the rest of the magical community would have to open a bank of their own.

If they had to choose, I would think most likely the good side, cuz Voldemort killed and slayed goblins just for the heck of it, and wizards have respected and compensated the goblins.

[dococ]

i agree with wickedwickedboy. this discussion reminds me a lot of the slytherin issue. while one of the things JKR has repeatedly tried to emphasize is that it's all about choice and individual decisions rather than where you come from, things still split pretty cleanly along creature/house lines. in the end people who cross over one way or the other are still pretty token.

[Wright1771]

1. I think the relationship between Goblins and Wizards will improve....as long as Hermione has a say in it.
2. Wizards in the past, (pre 'battle of Hogwarts) treated them like servants...no, that's wrong...the distrust goes deeper than that!
3.Another Goblin Revolution....hope not, but with Kingsley in charge, I think things will turn around.
4. Closing Gringotts! What would you do, if 'the powers to be' closed your account?
5. Who would they fight for? Well, Grimhook saw Harry's love for Dobby, but I think it would take a lot more than one wizard, to set their battle order straight!

[Clareious]

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?
I think both sides are very untrustworthy of the other and tend to blame the other for the past - as shown by the tension between Ron and Griphook. Undoubtedly both sides are at fault. In the future, with a new uncorrupt MoM with Kingsley? at its head, I would hope that Goblins would be given a lot more rights and, eventually, treated fairly by wizards. However, I think that tensions (for example, those surrounding wizard possession of goblin-made objects) would always exist.

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?
I think Bill Weasley understands Goblins more than most, having worked with them for years. I think that he respects and tries to treat them fairly, but, at the same time, refuses to compromise on points such as the wizard possession of goblin-made objects. I think that he may have been somewhat prejudiced against Goblins still.
Dumbledore - we never saw him having any direct dealings with Goblins, did we? I would like to think that he would have shown them the respect, tolerance, and kindess which he tried to show to everyone.
Cornelius Fudge - Fudge showed himself to be prejudiced with regard to the purity of blood, so I think it's reasonable to suspect that he was prejudiced with regard to magical creatures as well. Appointing Umbridge as Undersecretary to the Minister would certainly suggest so! I don't believe he would have treated Goblins fairly, although he would have been forced to deal with them as the guardians of Gringotts.
Rufus Scrimgeour - showed himself to be a much better leader than Fudge, but certainly not without his faults (not least, retaining Umbridge at the Ministry!). I don't think he was as prejudiced as Fudge, but I don't think he would have treated Goblins fairly.
Ludo Bagman - Had a strange relationship with Goblins. He cheated them out of gold, but they responded in kind. He did not treat Goblins well, but he seemed to abuse wizards equally.

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?
No, I think Griphook illustrated that Goblins were unnecessarily bloodthirsty and possessive. However, with centuries of wizard prejudice against them, you can understand why they felt the need to use violence to improve their situation. I would hope that they would be prepared to deal fairly with the new Ministry after LV's fall.

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?
I don't think there will be another rebellion. I think that the new, uncorrupt Ministry would have ensured that magical creatures - particularly house elves and goblins - would have got a fair deal at last.


What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?
They would establish a Wizard-run bank presumably. However, there would clearly be huge difficulties with gold etc. I don't think the Goblins would ever go so far as to close Gringotts. For one thing, they enjoyed the power it gave them.

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?
It depends on the goblin. Goblins, just like wizards, have divided loyalties.

[TheInvisibleF]

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?Symbotic, maybe. I think if either species could get by without the other then they would. But wizards need goblins for the knowledge they have about metals and also because of Gringotts. Goblins need wizards because they are not allowed to use wands. I think things will improve under Kingsley as Minister but not to a point everyone would be happy with.

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?I think Bill described his relationship with Goblins and actually cleared a lot of stuff up for us. He explained that their way of looking at the world is very different to the human way of looking at the world and that is important as defining their relationship wit humans. I think goblin relationships with humans always center around what was denied their race and also about improving their lot (Ludo Bagman).

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?The Gringots Goblins chose the way that they saw best for them. Personally I think this was the wrong way. But what about the companies who have kept on pursuing contracts with corrupt regimes? It's the same thing. Clairious: From what we have seen of goblins does it not seem more likely that they would use the confusion after Voldemort's fall to gain a few extra gallions?

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?No I don't think they will rebel. If they haven't used their financial powers over the last few hundred years of wizarding history to gain certain rights then they probably won't do it now. Of course in the general clear out and improving of standards after the war they probably gained a few rights. I would say things like wands wouldn't come for a good few years yet.

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?Protest outside which would lead to a riot and then the wizards sacking Gringotts. It all leads up to a final battle between wizards and Goblins.

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?Each goblin would chose his own side, rather like individual wizards did.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by Kendra

So we've seen through the series that Goblins are not to be messed with. They're strong, tricksy and powerful. Harry's encounter with Griphook raised questions about magical communications between goblins and humans.

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?

The wizards think that they are so much better than the Goblins and the Goblins feel put down. The Wizards fight dirty, but the Goblins fight dirtier. There may be a change in the future, but this situation will probably pop up in the future anyways.

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?

Some of them are the people that goblins hate, like Ludo Bagman, some of the are on good terms with the goblins, like Bill, because they have lived with them and understand their traditions.Goblins are generally mistrusting of Wizards, something that Wizards don't really understand, because they have never understood Goblins.

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?

They should make treaties, try to solve the problem. The more violence they cause, the more wizards think that they should be controlled and put down.

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?

There will be a Goblin rebellion, i have no doubt. Their financial power could be used as bribes for certain rights. If they went to the Ministry to fight for their rights, they could bribe a lot of wizards to voting for them.

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?

Wizards would probably just open a new gringotts. If the Goblins tried to keep the money that was in there that is rightfully belonging to Wizards, Goblin eyes or Wizard eyes, that would be war, but otherwise, a new bank would suffice.

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?

Like the wizards, some would join Voldemort and others would join Harry. However, I think more would join Harry once they found out how unprejudiced he was. Besides, they wouldn't be on too good terms with Voldie, since he was putting them down just as much as other wizards. Some may believe that if they help him, he would be nice to them, but I think the majority would go to Harry.

[Fairygdmther]

I don't know how happy they would be to side with Harry, after all, he successfully broke in and stole property of one of their clients, as well as escaping with their dragon.

I don't fully understand the lack of respect - they run a very safe banking arrangement, and they are unequalled in their production of fine metalwork - it doesn't even need to be cleaned or polished. If there are other products that are of this quality, they deserve respect for their expertise. With proper respect, they may back down a bit on the ownership issue.

Perhaps admitting them to Hogwarts to learn wizarding magic, and having goblin magic taught as well, they may earn the right to own wands. I would like to see centaur magic and elves magic receive the same respect.

FGM

[Elysia]

Originally Posted by Kendra

So we've seen through the series that Goblins are not to be messed with. They're strong, tricksy and powerful. Harry's encounter with Griphook raised questions about magical communications between goblins and humans.

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future?

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described?

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights?

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts?

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for?

I don't know about all those people and their relationships with goblins, but what I can tell you is this. Every time the goblins came up in the HP series, I got an uncomfortable feeling. It was as if JKR wrote them in as almost outside the influence and rules of everyone else in the wizarding world. They were operating in contact with wizards, running Gringotts and etc., but they didn't have emotional contact with or respect for any non-goblin creatures or living beings.

I got the sense that one could never really trust a goblin, because they'd always have some "goblin rule" that no one knew about, and if you accidentally crossed them, you were basically toast. They were sort of portrayed as past the reach of wizarding law, and they didn't respect the laws of wizards, in any case.

Just kind of creepy - a little like the centaurs, except that in the stories, some of the centaurs showed specific kindness toward humans. Goblins always seemed to be out for themselves. If someone was helped in the meantime, that was fine, but they weren't going out of their way just to help someone.

I was always nervous when the goblins were involved in any part of the story, because they'd turn on Harry or whoever in a second if they thought they could benefit from it. Very ethnocentric and haughty, as well.

[Voldemorts8thHorcrux]

Originally Posted by Fairygdmther

I don't know how happy they would be to side with Harry, after all, he successfully broke in and stole property of one of their clients, as well as escaping with their dragon.

I don't fully understand the lack of respect - they run a very safe banking arrangement, and they are unequalled in their production of fine metalwork - it doesn't even need to be cleaned or polished. If there are other products that are of this quality, they deserve respect for their expertise. With proper respect, they may back down a bit on the ownership issue.

Perhaps admitting them to Hogwarts to learn wizarding magic, and having goblin magic taught as well, they may earn the right to own wands. I would like to see centaur magic and elves magic receive the same respect.

FGM

centaurs want respect as centaurs, but they are very protective of their secrets, as are goblins. Goblins ask for wands, yet they feel wizards should expect nothing in return. Personally, I think on this part, goblins are at fault. Wizards aren't completely innocent, but goblins should back down a bit

[TheAuror]

In search of links of critical reviews of the whole of the HP book series a few weeks back I also came across some sites with rather negative reviews. I even read on one of those websites that Gringotts and the Goblins were the incarnation of Jews in the opinion of some fundamental Christians.
I found this to be a clear antisemitic remark and out of order here on a neutral forum like this.

Still, perhaps some of the more knowledgeable posters can share their thoughts and meaning on this particular issue with the Goblins?

[Potterwatch07]

How would you describe the relationship between wizards and Goblins in general? Will there be a change in the future? Definately the relationship is sketchy, even the wizards that work with the Goblins do not trust them, and the Goblins obviously do not trust the wizards, so it is touch and go, a definate business only relationship.
Whether the outcome of the 7th book would trigger a change in the relationship is a huge question. There are still those wizards who do not view Goblins as anything other then creatures to tolerate.

How can the relationship between certain wizards like Bill Weasley, Albus Dumbledore, Cornelius Fudge, Rufus Scrimgeour, Ludo Bagman and Goblins be described? I feel that with Bill and Albus they took the time to actually learn what was necessary to get along with the Goblins, as there was an obvious need to be in a positive, or semi-positive relationship with them. Those in leadership roles in the ministry tried not to step on their toes, but still did not treat them as intelligent and worthy race.

Do you think that the Goblins chose the right way? Is violence is the only way to improve their situation?

Will there be another Goblin rebellion? Will they use their financial power to gain certain rights? Rebellion, probably not, as long as there are leaders in the ministry who understand that the Goblins need to be understood to have a relationship with them. As Bill tried to teach Harry what he knew of the Goblins, and how to work with them, then if most ministry people will have an open mind to understand them, then there will not be a rebellion.

What would the Wizarding society do if the Goblins closed Gringotts? As with most industrialized nations, who rely on the banking industry, it will most like collapse the wizarding world's financial situation, and most likely it would lead to some type of depression.

If the goblins had to choose, whose side would they fight for? I would say, as book 7 points out, that the goblins would be in it for themselves, and use whatever means necessary to protect their own. I would not say that they would take a side since they are only out for their own gain.

[truthheart]

Originally Posted by wickedwickedboy

Well I can't answer all those questions. But one thing I thought when the goblins were explored in the book: It was an example of how JKR seemed to draw a line among the magical creatures. Even the 'good' goblins were untrust worthy and somehow "bad". I didn't really like the way they were handled. Same with vampires, giants and werewolves. It seemed like only the "pretty" creatures that did not hurt humans were honored - veelas, mermaids, elves, etc. I guess you have to have good and evil creatures, it was just kind of sad seeing the same old creatures once again being villianized. It would have been great to have seen more than 4 from this group actually help out on the good side, or at least be portrayed as being all right for what they were.

Well personally I would like to say that goblins are the only magical creatures that I ever had real respect for. I had to take a moment to applaud when the goblin in DH said, "Duties unbefitting the dignity of my race. I am not a house elf." Goblins seem to be the only magical creatures that stand their ground when wizards attempt to walk all over them, so I would hardly expect any wizard to see them as 'trustworthy' or 'good'. Simply because they do not cater to wizarding needs, does not make them a race of untrustworthy or bad creatures. Its a bit condescending and patronizing, if you think about it.