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Writing style and structure of DH



 
 
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  #41  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:02 am
Sectusempra  Male.gif Sectusempra is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

ok seriously, my question is:

why is it so important to know what did dudley see when he was attacked by dementors?

I mean, I read this question so many times and I don't get it's relevance...


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  #42  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:02 am
Mollie_hpbs  Female.gif Mollie_hpbs is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

ahahahaha poor writing!! ahah wow guys. Everyone is just angry with epiluge because it didn't say what they wanted it to. So what, who cares if it didn't tell you that harry was an auror it's better then saying harry was a garbage man and closing that door... oh and btw all of the books skip over months at a time. Look at PS/SS it's a fraction of the size of DH but runs over an even longer time span!!! Really, it would be poor writing if JKR wrote about harry sitting around during those months and it would be absolutly pointless. And of course we don't get loads of insight on the other characters romantic insights because the books is through Harry's point of view he is also very shy when it comes to talking about girls with ron. In HBP harry actually made a point not to to talk to ron or hermione about their feelings for each other.

I personally thought Deathly Hallows was the best written book out of the 7, it may not have been everything I wanted (dean/luna instead of luna/neville) but I still have no problems with it. I definatly think DH was the best HP book and I really enjoyed the epilouge. It was all about showing that Harry Finally got what he had always dreamed of, he was finally happy for once in the entire series. I give her lots of props.


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  #43  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:07 am
ehemisgod  Female.gif ehemisgod is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Hmm... i think maybe, the writing wasn't up to the usual standard, like when I read HBP I sometimes literally stop just to revel in how ace the sentence I just read was but in DH, it just really isn't that well written, and some of it seemed clunky and not that well put together...

The story did seem unbalanced and it felt limiting to just be stuck with Harry's perspective, expecially when we're hearing about some of the stuff going on elsewhere (rather see Ginny trying to steal the sword than sit in a tent with the trio), I know we've always been with Harry but then again, we've always been at Hogwarts which gives a lot more options...

Also the thing that bothered me most about the epilogue was the fact that it came directly after the battle so we never got to see Harry or Ron or Hermione process what had happened or their thoughts on it, like Snape, the three of them have known him for seven years, thought he was evil as can be and it turns out he's a hero but there's not moment to see what they think about it or how they deal with it... instead we skip to 19 years later and everything is supposed to be ok just because they've married each other and had kids that they've named after people, which just seemed like a slight on the rest of the brilliant world that she created.


  #44  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:08 am
thedragonfly  Undisclosed.gif thedragonfly is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hysteria View Post
The epilogue read as if it was written by a high school fan fiction writer.
Except the high school fan fiction writer could probably do better...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mollie_hpbs View Post
ahahahaha poor writing!! ahah wow guys. Everyone is just angry with epiluge because it didn't say what they wanted it to.
I can't speak for everyone, but that's a broad judgement to be making, and an incorrect one at that. I may not have liked the epilogue (I hated it), but even if the epilogue didn't exist or went differently, I still would have been disappointed. There were many parts of the story that were poorly written, not just the epilogue. Although, the epilogue was the icing on the really bad cake.


  #45  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:08 am
Yeats  Female.gif Yeats is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativeamanda View Post
Have any of you read the book the 2nd time around? I had similar feelings at first, but now after reading it another time, I am thinking it was me rushing, not Jo.
I always enjoy the books a second time round... because the first time I'm just rushing to see what happens! On the second read I pick up things that seemed pointless or awkward and realise there is a purpose there. Some of the passages in the book were a bit clunky, and the middle camping bit was kind of long, but I think it was deliberate. I also think JKR's talent lies more with plotting and dialogue than with beautiful prose.

That said, the two pages when Harry is walking into the forest I thought were really stunning... holding the snitch to his lips and saying 'I am about about die'; 'why had he never realised the miracle he was, nerve and brain and bounding heart'; 'It was not so easy, after all, to die'; 'all that remained now was the thing itself:dying.' ; 'Stay close to me,' Harry said quietly.' I'm quoting off the top of my head so I may not have got them exactly right, but I thought that part was beautifully written, brought you fully into the scene and conveyed the mood so sparingly and yet so clearly.


  #46  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:09 am
Tigster  Female.gif Tigster is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliveforthis View Post
What happened during those four months?

"Harry wakes up. Harry goes to the bathroom. Harry sits there. Harry eats. Harry goes to the bathroom. Harry sits there. Harry goes to sleep."

Pretty tedious. She probably skipped it for a couple reasons: One, the book is already very long, there no point in extending it any and two, it made sense that basically nothing happened for long periods at a time because it made Ron want to leave which was a big part of the book.
Exactly. I felt the time passing by and I felt the frustration and "stuck" feeling. It would take a lot to make Ron abandon them, and it had to be obvious that they were getting frayed. Of course the Horcrux didn't help).

It was slow to start, but I think it was as good as the last few books. it did feel rushed to connect loose ends, but how many threads are already started with complaining that this little gossamer piece did not get resolved anyway? Big job to tie all that up.

That said, the Epilogue? That was definitely more Book 1-3. I would have to go back and read those to be sure, but it was jarring next to the beautiful writing of the last few chapters. I think I remember hearing Jo wrote the Epilogue right with the first book?


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  #47  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:11 am
ehemisgod  Female.gif ehemisgod is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

it reads like she wrote it with the first book... the whole of the Deathly Hallows seems much closer to the Philosopher's Stone than it does to the Half Blood Prince...


  #48  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:18 am
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Re: Poor writing?

I thought there were some problems with pacing. The middle of the book was a little on the dull side. All in all, however, it was typical Rowling. Not a radical departure from what we're used to.

It did lack humour, though. Hmm.


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  #49  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:19 am
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Locket View Post
If whatever Harry did was dull, how about Ron and Hermione? Hermione reads, Hermione cooks. Hermione saves the day with her brilliant magic. Ron makes one somewhat stupid remark. Ron doesn't get it right agin. And again. And again. And for variation, Ron and Hermione fall out. As a variation on that, Ron and Harry fall out.
I'm sorry, but isn't that the point? I mean, they were on the run from pretty much every wizard in the UK, and plus, they had the Horcruxes to worry about. I think, it was just JK's way of letting us know how helpless they were and how cut off from the "outside" world they were.


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  #50  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:23 am
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Bad writing was scattered all over the book. And then it condensed into that appalling annal about Harry and his fifty children.


  #51  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:24 am
wizzy  Male.gif wizzy is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rotsiepots View Post
I thought there were some problems with pacing. The middle of the book was a little on the dull side. All in all, however, it was typical Rowling. Not a radical departure from what we're used to.

It did lack humour, though. Hmm.
The dull part, was in my opinion there to reinforce the helpless feeling of the trio concerning their task.

The lack of humor isn't that unexpected really. After all there was a war going on, and about half of the book, we have only the trio, no one else. So, the loneliness + helpless feeling =/= humor.

But when you have the trio join up with someone else, we do have some nice humor moments. (eg Kreacher).


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  #52  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:26 am
Chosenoneknux  Undisclosed.gif Chosenoneknux is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wizzy View Post
I'm sorry, but isn't that the point? I mean, they were on the run from pretty much every wizard in the UK, and plus, they had the Horcruxes to worry about. I think, it was just JK's way of letting us know how helpless they were and how cut off from the "outside" world they were.
Exactly it was realistic, a butch of scared 17 year olds just wouldn't be able to go from dark place to dark place and fuifill the quest needed of them that easily, it was a good relaxing calm before the real storm began and it helped to develop their characters and bond alot more than otherwise.

I liked it mostly, aside from the initial pages after Ron's departure, it was all good stuff all in all!


  #53  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:28 am
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Re: Poor writing?

It pains me to say that I agree. I think JKR has shown some poor writing in the previous books, but overall I thought they were well-done. Let me just point out before I give my opinion, that I liked this book, but it felt different and is certainly not my favorite. I think the fault lies in the enormous amount of exposition that needed to be said. We have a lot of talking and explaining, which may be necessary, but is not exactly the best reading experience.

One of my favorite parts of the previous books was JKR's wit, not just in her dialog but in her writing style. The narrator was like another character to me, and I felt the wit was lost in this book. However, I don't think it would have fit well with the tone of the book, so I'm not saying it is a fault, it just made it not my favorite.

I think where Jo excels is in characters and where she trips is in action and sometimes plot. I think there was too much plot for one novel. Some things seemed rushed, or conveniently placed. Some things were too coincidental. I felt the wedding should have been longer or completely cut out. As it is it is just sort of thrown in there, and Viktor Krum was really an unnecessary cameo. I thought their excursion to the ministry was sort of boring, and I found the hallows plot coexisting with the horcrux plot to be kind of muddled and confusing.

Actually what I really liked about this book were the chapters that just involved the characters and in which there was no action. As I said above, this is what I think JKR does best. I loved the relationship between the trio in this. Although some may find their time in the woods to be boring and pointless, I actually found it to be the most real part of the book. Here we have 3 teenagers who have no idea what they are doing and they are feeling the weight of the world. I think JKR played this very effectively and I was really sad for them: their loneliness, lack of food, frustration, and disillusionment. I felt betrayed when Ron left and torn apart when he faced the horcrux.

One of my favorite parts in the book was Potterwatch. Again it was very real and uplifting, and I don't think I would have felt the power of it had I not seen Harry, Ron, and Hermione suffer in the forest. Then of course I felt the uplifting feeling give way immediately to terror when Fenrir Greybeck captured them. I was happy to see that Jo didn't hold back. I found the chapter, Malfoy Manor, to be so disturbing. It was absolutely killing me when Hermione was being tortured and it seemed to go on forever. And then when Dobby died, I was so sad, probably sadder than any other character, simply because we got a chance to mourn him. "Here lies Dobby, a free elf" made me cry like you wouldn't believe, even though he was far from being my favorite character.

I loved that JKR showed war very realistically. There were excellent WW2 parallels that I think she executed very well. I felt the state of panic brought on by the military government. The whole Mudblood-Holocaust parallel was also brilliant. The prejudice in the WW was always a theme that I really appreciated in the books and here we see it at its most extreme and most evil.

I think the chapters Godric's Hollow, The Life and Lies of Albus Dumbledore, The Silver Doe, The Tale of the Three Brothers, Malfoy Manor, The Prince's Tale, and especially The Forest Again and King's Cross, fit in perfectly with JKR's best Potter work previously. They felt like the other books, they pulled real emotion from me. However, except for a few excerpts from other chapters, for the rest of the book I felt kind of detached. I still have favorite moments from other chapters, but it's as if we have some of the best JK Rowling work paired with some of her worst work. It's a definite mixed bag for me, and I don't think it's the best in the series, though of course I still like it. And I have to say that I really really bawled when the war was over and Harry saw Ron and Hermione: the only people he wanted to see. It was so emotional because that really felt like the end and that the series was over and our time living with these three characters was really done. I was strangely proud of them and sad to see them go, and that line (sorry don't have my book) just got to me.


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  #54  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:31 am
godrics hollow  Male.gif godrics hollow is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dantedanger View Post
yeah i did to be honest....i thought that largge portions of the book read more like a childs book than a work of serious fiction to be honest. thats not to say i didnt enjoy it or love the book, but in terms of literary style it seemed to be a step back from HBP and certainly, POA.

As i said, i enjoyed it, and indeed loved the book, but there were bits of it that struck me as being primarily child orientated.
stole the words from my mouth... The plot was good, the execution IMO sucked of course its impossible to write for an audience spanning ages 7-60+ but with this book harry potter has finally earned its "Kids book" rating... there was nothing at all that was overly morbid or dark... maybe JO thought there was and tried to lighten up the book with simple writing? She was wrong in that sense though... higher level writing with lighter plot is much better than childish writing with a dark plot


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  #55  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:36 am
SKasparRollins  Male.gif SKasparRollins is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ASUTillman View Post
Did anyone else notice when Jo wrote "So, they apparated to London".. like I mean, did anyone notice to poor writing some of this book had? Like iI mean like 1% of the book, I loved this book, favorite one IMO, but I mean certain parts just popped out, such as when she said how they just apparated to London. Also, isn't it kinda weird how the trio went months, as they said during "A Place to Hide", how autumn fell, and idk months go by, and we're just reading it.. I mean it's kinda poor that she accelerates the timeline really quick and sjust has months go by.

Like, what happened to the Order during those like 4 months? Idk, maybe I'm too critical, it just popped out to me while I was reading, and if I noticed it, (I ignore typos, etc. when I read), it must've been obvious.

Any thoughts?
This was inevitable.

Anyway, to be perfectly honest I felt the same way at first, but only because it was such a huge change to see the kids actually doing magic freely finally. And literally nothing happened in the book in regards to the Horcrux hunting until about February or March, so of course JKR had to speed it up a bit.

You seem to be forgetting whose perspective the books are told from (third person omniscient I know but they're about Harry not the Order.) The first four months the trio just had to hide from Voldemort because literally everyone in the wizarding world was looking for them. There wouldn't have been any way to fill us in on the Order "sufficiently" (although JKR did the best job she could with Remus' appearance at Grimmauld Place to fill everyone in and the Ministry chapter.) It was bad enough she began using Harry's connection to Voldemort as a plot device to find out what Voldemort was up to again without explanation, despite clearly explaining in HBP that he was using Occlumency against Harry. Can someone explain that to me?


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  #56  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:38 am
Eric_Cartman  Male.gif Eric_Cartman is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

As far as the content goes it definitely rates up with PoA and PS/SS (which I think are the two most perfectly written and plotted) but I just wish she had taken out the long months of them doing nothing. These gaps work when they're in a school year, but now when they're in hiding and trying to find Horcruxes the story suffers through events being spread over the same timeframe. You can guarantee they won't do this in the movie. It will feel like the whole book's events play out in a short time.

This is the only part where I feel her writing slipped up. But the greatness of the last three or four chapters totally makes up for it. The Forest Again, particularly, where Harry accepts that he's going to his death and, of course, King's Cross and The Prince's Tale where we got some answers to questions that have been up in the air since book 1.


  #57  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:40 am
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
ahahahaha poor writing!! ahah wow guys. Everyone is just angry with epiluge because it didn't say what they wanted it to.
Thats a bit of an unfair generalisation. Whilst I thought the epilogue was the worst written chapter, it wasnt because it left out anything I wanted to read (I had no interest in any of their lives past Hogwarts). It was just written to a very amature and poor standard.


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  #58  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:42 am
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Re: Poor writing?

I'm more concerned with with her disregard for continuity and the foreshadowing of certain events from other books that never occurred:

Ron and Hermione should have been "officially" together from the start. The wedding at least. We've had enough of this **** for the last 3 books.

Where was the Wormtail/Lupin/Greyback redemption fight with the Silver Hand we've all been waiting for? It's as if she's forgotten the whole Maurader backstory since PoA/GoF.

Neville gets no page-time after the death of Bellatrix? Really? He didn't have to kill her, but at least get his emotions on it...

General continuity errors, especially with travel. This has been a huge problem throughout the books. What is the point of Broomsticks/Thestrals/Flu/Portkeys if we have Side-Along Apparition? Couldn't they track Harry's Apparition leaving Privet Drive? How's he able to do it throughout the rest of the book? Didn't he (and Ron) need a liscense?

The Trace is finally given a name/proper explanation... but it's still really badly explained and thought up. Why would they have this "general area" trace, and not just tie it to one person?

What's the deal with the Deluminator? Deus Ex Machina if I've ever seen one...

No mention of the extent of Bill's Werewolf symptoms? No proper Ron/Hermione/Krum confrontation/blessings? Other various small but very needed resolutions to various character conflicts/situations...

NO Slytherins stood up to help in the battle? What? Are we still stuck up on them? The ONLY non-evil, non-(at one time)Death Eater Slytherine in the whole damn series is Slughorn.

Some of the deaths were VERY bad... Lupin and Tonks specifically. Hedwig got more attention from Harry than them.

The ending was hilariously bad... Kills Voldy, wants a sandwitch... Cut to 19 years later? What? No makeup with Ginny? No proper declarations by Ron/Hermione? Dean/Luna? What happens to Teddy Lupin? The Weasly family, minus one? Do they need to finish their schooling? What jobs do they get?

The Epilogue read like bad fan fiction. Ok, we get it... we know they're gonna get married. They named their kids after their dead friends/family? HOW CLEVER. No other questions were answered. The only really good part about it was the Draco scene, as that actually brought some "thanks... but I'm not going to come and thank you" resolution to their whole situation.

So... anyone up for a fan-made "revision" of Deathly Hallows? It probably wouldn't be that hard, just a few well placed and well written paragraphs and changes every so often. The only parts that would need major work are the ending and epilogue.


  #59  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:42 am
magical4life  Undisclosed.gif magical4life is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

I feel like this was the best book she has written regarding her writing. The part I felt could have been written better was the Epilogue. It seemed a bit rushed and confusing. Other than that there were very few parts where the actual writing was poor. Great improvement overall!

I notice that many things people are talking about are plot and character errors, remarks on her ideas rather than her writing. Continuity, order, gaps, proper explanations, structured and planned chapters, etc. are what I consider regarding "writing style". Having an idea that is less than satisfactory is different than portraying that idea unsatisfactorily.


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Last edited by magical4life; July 26th, 2007 at 2:48 am.
  #60  
Old July 26th, 2007, 2:45 am
meena_beena  Undisclosed.gif meena_beena is offline
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Re: Poor writing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SKasparRollins View Post
It was bad enough she began using Harry's connection to Voldemort as a plot device to find out what Voldemort was up to again without explanation, despite clearly explaining in HBP that he was using Occlumency against Harry. Can someone explain that to me?

I think the reason she gives is that LV cannot stand to be inside Harry because Harry can feel and LV cannot stand to feel anything other than blind rage and hatred. How that works with Occlumency is beyond me though? You'd think the greatest wizard in the world who knows magic beyond Dumbledore himself would get a clue that someone was poking around in his mind.

But then again, there is a piece of himself inside Harry, so perhaps he didn't have a choice?


 
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