"Was Sirius a Slytherin?" aka "The Marauders and their Houses"

[Katze]

r'nt huf supposed to be loyal? peter defitnetly ain't loyal & sirius doesn't seem too ambitious.the only ones i agree w/ r remus & james.

Pettigrew wasn't brave, smart, or ambitious - so that's why I put him in Hufflepuff. He is loyal - to V. Perhaps in hopes of gaining some superiority, something that always seemed to elude him.

Sirius is willing to do anything (in order to protect Harry) regardless of his consequences - that's why I put him in Slytherin. I believe Sirius to be extremely ambitious.

Heh. Sorry to say it, but the only one I agree with of that list is James. Professor Lupin was a smart guy. But did he seem to respect academic excellence over anything else? He admired Hermione's brain usage and that's all. He broke rules constantly in his schooldays to be with his friends. Hufflepuffs are the open, loyal ones but I'll bet my socks (though I'm wearing none) that it is 'the lions' who are the pack animals.

On the flip side of Lupin, Hermione does respect academic excellence, yet she was put in Gryffindor. All kids from all classes break the rules - Cedric did so during the Tri-wizard tournament to help Harry. Harry constantly breaks the rules. Malfoy breaks the rules as well. I don't know if we have a Ravenclaw yet who breaks that rules, but there will be.

I believe that each person has qualities of all houses, and it isn't always clear why a person was put into a particular house.

My opinion is based on the characteristics of each character as I read the books. If you prefer a different order, I'd love to hear it and why you chose that order.

[cbjedi]

Katze:

Pettigrew wasn't brave, smart, or ambitious - so that's why I put him in Hufflepuff. He is loyal - to V. Perhaps in hopes of gaining some superiority, something that always seemed to elude him.

Well Peter isn't brave or loyal (except to voldy) right now, but we don't know what he was like in his school years, or what changed him. I can't see him being such good friends with James if he was always such a snake in the grass.

Sirius is willing to do anything (in order to protect Harry) regardless of his consequences - that's why I put him in Slytherin. I believe Sirius to be extremely ambitious.

Yes, Sirius bravely does whatever it takes to protect his godson, just like Harry bravely does whatever it takes to fight Lord Voldemort. Black's actions aren't motivated out of personal greed, his actions are motivated by something else, personal sacrifice and selflessness. His actions are by their very definition very, very brave. Classic Gryffindor qualities.

Anyway you still haven't explained how the Marauder could have been so inseparable if they were all in different houses.

[Katze]

Originally posted by cbjedi
Anyway you still haven't explained how the Marauder could have been so inseparable if they were all in different houses.

Perhaps we should re-araange the question: Do we have proof that they weren't inseparable?

Meaning: Was there any one time when a person would've seen one of the boys alone - with no other marauders around?

Yes - I think so. Moony could be seen going to the whomping willow before any of the other boys showed up. Prongs and Padfoot were often seen in "The Three Broomsticks" without Moony and Wormtail. So I think that they were actually able to be in different places at the same time.

But seriously...
I think it's quite common to see groups of friends made up of kids from all different sides of the tracks. If one is motivated, one will succeed.

This does bring up a question though - how did Peter manage to join up with these boys if he weren't forced to be in the same quarters. I would see them bringing him along if they were forced to (like if they were all roommates) and ditch him if he were in a different house.

So Peter's involvement does support the theory that they were all in the same house. Interesting...

Well - I see that there is support for the opposing side, but I'm going to hold out for some factual clues from the author.

[cbjedi]

Ah yes, it's true that they wouldn't have to be in the same house just to become really good friends. Look at Cho and Cedric. But it just seems more likely to me that they be in the same house in order to become so close. Besides, as I outlined above Sirius displays classic Gryffindor qualities.

I'll concede that there's a good chance that Lupin could have been a Ravenclaw however. It strikes me that out of all the Marauders he's the one we seem to know the least about. He hasn't really shown any real bravery, not like James and Sirius.

Also Peter being in Gryffindor has always confused me. He doesn't really display any Hufflepuff qualities, and he certainly is no Ravenclaw. Which leaves Slytherin and Gryffindor. Slytherin seems to be the obvious choice. But as you pointed out Katze how would he fall in with them if he wasn't in the same house with at least one of them? Since it's highly doubtful that Peter could have been in Ravenclaw, and since I strongly believe that there's no way Sirius could have been a Slytherin, Gryffindor seems to be the logical place that Peter could have met up with the other Marauders. I dunno, perhaps Peter started out with his own sort of bravery, similar to Longbottom but perhaps life somehow turned him cowardly and deceitful.

Anyway I've always believed them to all be in Gryffindor, only because I knew for certain that James was a Gryffindor, and that it seemed logical for four really close friends to all be in the same house. I suppose there could be more to it though...

[bunn2007]

Pettigrew wasn't brave, smart, or ambitious - so that's why I put him in Hufflepuff. He is loyal - to V. Perhaps in hopes of gaining some superiority, something that always seemed to elude him.

not really. sirius said the reason y peter didn't do n e thing to harry while being scabbers was b/c he didn't have n e one powerful enough to it for. & voldy said that the peter came back to him only cuz there was no where eles to go.
in fact, he mite be able to be in sly or rave. he knew how to out smart everybody by killing the 12 muggles & turning into a rat. he was smart enough to do that but he was also sly enough. n e one think of that?

[dantares]

They are all in Gryffindor. It's very unlikely that they would become such good friends if they were not in the same house. If you noticed, the kids all have something common to them.
Harry = James (they are so alike and they had a certain disregard for rules)
Ron = Sirius (both are very supportive and brave, tall)
Neville = Peter (both are not considered to be brave and both are fat and round)
Hermione = Lily

I think Hargid said that because he hates Slytherin. No doubt Tom is from Slytherin and since Tom is the one who got him expelled, naturally he hates Slytherin. I'm sure that throughout the 1000 years, there would be one or two bad wizards who come from the other 3 houses. If not, JKR would be very baised. I think Peter is one of the few who gone bad in Gryffindor. Maybe 1 in 1000 wizards who gone bad are from the other houses and that's wy Hargid said that all wizards who gone bad are from Slytherin. It's much easier to say it that way.

[Tarawyn]

Something interesting in the idea of the "evil" Slytherins, very intersting, is that the generalization is a form of prejudice. The stupidity of prejudice is made clear hundreds of times throughout the series, Harry 'most always against it, but in the worst prejudice, the one that means more than any other, he's clueless. A paradox. He dislikes something and supports it at the same time. Many of the Slytherins most likely did "go bad", but it's foolish to think that all did, or that there were no others from different houses. Something to keep an eye out for.

I don't think there's much of a question in the variety of the houses. In one house, you have a spectrum of the different personalities and possibilities with only four individuals. They all have one connecting quality--Peter had to have been Sorted into Gryffindor for a reason--but besides that, there's hardly anything that they're alike it. More interesting than spreading these qualities and assigning them to different groups.

[JenBluffheid]

I understand where everyone is coming from about Sirius being a Slytherin. I, however, remain neutral.

If Hagrid was generalising, there is only one other thread of evidence which makes it possible that Sirius was a Slytherin - the laugh.

On the Knight Bus, Stan goes through the procedure of how the Muggles and Pettigrew "died". At the end, he tells Harry that he laughed. That's what I can't make head or tail of. Why did he laugh?

[Cat]

Originally posted by Katze

My opinion is based on the characteristics of each character as I read the books. If you prefer a different order, I'd love to hear it and why you chose that order.

Gryffindor, Gryffindor, Gryffindor and Gryffindor. Yes, Hermione values intelligence but also breaks rules for friends. And thus she is a Gryffindor.

JenBluffheid, people laugh hysterically in dreadful situations sometimes. It's hard to explain but it happens a lot. I should know, it happened when I was kicked in the face. I laughed my head of at all the blood. To be in Sirius' situation it would be so emotional, so unbelievable, so hectic and so desparate that the brain could momentarily let of steam in the form of uncontrollable laughter.

[JenBluffheid]

Originally posted by Cat
JenBluffheid, people laugh hysterically in dreadful situations sometimes. It's hard to explain but it happens a lot. I should know, it happened when I was kicked in the face. I laughed my head of at all the blood. To be in Sirius' situation it would be so emotional, so unbelievable, so hectic and so desparate that the brain could momentarily let of steam in the form of uncontrollable laughter.

Ouch! Hmm, I don't think I've did that before. But yeah, all those emotions would cause him to laugh, I guess. But what if it was a "Mwahahahaha" laugh? It could have happened! :smile:

[Cat]

I guess, but people like Stan could have just thought of a 'Mwahahaha!' style laugh for dramatic effect. Sirius could have actually been giggling like a schoolgirl for all they knew.

[Puffskein]

On the 'evil Slytherin' question - the idea of all wizards who went bad being in Slytherin comes from Hagrid or Ron. What the narration (which is what we should trust) tells us is that Slytherin produced more Dark wizards than any other house. Quite a big difference.

I like to think MWPP were Gryffindors BUT...Peter says when explaining himself to Sirius and Lupin that "I was never brave like you". That doesn't sound Gryffindor at all. It's not impossible that Peter was in another house and got into MWPP through having known James or Sirius previously. Then again... Lupin says "My THREE friends noticed I disappeared every month" which tells me they were in the same dorm.
Indeed, Lupin calls himself cowardly when explaining why he didn't tell Dumbledore about Sirius being an animagus. But I think he must have had some Gryffindor spirit to stay sane through his 'wilderness years'.

[SiriuslyBria]

Originally posted by cbjedi
1. We know that James was in Gryffindor, if you need proof it's stated right here. Mugglenet compiled all of that from JKR's several webchats and interviews. We also know that Sirius and James were best friends at Hogwarts, as Madam Rosmeretta (sp?) said "Quite the double act that James Potter and Sirius Black." It would have been difficult, if not impossible for them to be such a 'double act' had they been in separate houses. Especially if they were in Gryffindor and Slytherin, two house that couldn't have more animosity between them.

I have no doubt about James being in Gryffindor. That is cofirmed, as you said. It's the other Marauders I'm not so sure about. Also, has there always been animosity between Gyffindor and Slytherin? Or is that something that just occassionally happens when some strong-willed students who don't like each other are put in opposite houses? I ask only because all the other houses seem to get along fine.

Also... would it be so hard for Sirius and James to goof off together if they were in different houses? Not necessarily. They do have some free time, and more importantly... Gryffindor and Slytherin (at least in Harry's day) seem to have a LOT of classes together.

Originally posted by cbjedi
2. I don't put a whole lot of stock into what Hagrid says. He seems to me the kind of fellow who sometimes speaks without thinking.

I do agree there. Hagrid is a great guy, but pretty impassioned on what he feels. However... we haven't had the Slytherin being evil bit from just Hagrid. Harry believes it, but more importantly, knows it to NOT be true after POA. During the Sorting Ceremony in GOF, he thinks about Slytherin turning out more Dark Wizards than any other house... suddenly not all evil wizards who went to Hogwarts came from that house.

Furthermore, when I think of Sirius, while I can agree Gryffindor would fit him, I think the same of Slytherin. He does posses qualities that Salazar prized. Resourcefulness, determination, disregard for rules, etc. Those do fit Sirius, becoming anamagi and sneaking off to the Shrieking Shack every month.

Frankly, what I think JRK is doing is showing that it's a person's choices that determine who they are. I think that through Sirius (and perhaps another current student...) she will show that good has come out of Slytherin, just as evil came out of a non-Slytherin house.

[Jagged]

Everyone seems to pull the "evidence" that Sirius was a SLytherin because he supposedly betrayed James and Lily. Do remember that he didn't - he was a loyal friend all the way. The betrayal was Peter's doing. Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that Sirius was a Griffindor, as were Moony and Wormtail.

As to why Peter ended up in Griffindor, perhaps the Sorting Hat recognised he might end up being the downfall of James, and subsequently put him in with James, Remus and Sirius in the hope that he might be molded by his environment - a protective measure (obviously didn't work) against his betrayal of the others.

[SiriuslyBria]

Originally posted by Jagged
Everyone seems to pull the "evidence" that Sirius was a SLytherin because he supposedly betrayed James and Lily. Do remember that he didn't - he was a loyal friend all the way. The betrayal was Peter's doing. Therefore, there is no doubt in my mind that Sirius was a Griffindor, as were Moony and Wormtail.

Of course I remember Sirius didn't betray James and Lilly. He's Sirius, afterall. He'd never do that. He'd die for his friends before he betrayed them.

However... until the end of PoA it wasn't known that he was innocent. Even now, only a select few know Sirius is innocent and that Peter is alive and was the murderer/betrayer. This really leads me to believe Sirius was in Slytherin and Peter in Gryffindor. Having a dark wizard come from Gryffindor is most likely the reason why Harry thought about Slytherin turning out *more* dark wizards in GOF.

I believe JKR has been doing this all for a purpose. I believe that there is a good chance, before the end of the series, that we will find out that good wizards have come from Slytherin (Sirius and maybe others) and bad wizards (Peter, possibly others) have come from other houses. That really is a person's choices in life that determines who they are, not just their presonality traits.

[MajkMan]

I was just thinking about this the other day,only I was thinking about Peter Petigrew. I mean, we know he went bad, but why were James, Sirius, and Lupin freinds with him if he was in Slytherin and they were in Gryffindor? If he was in Gryffindor instead of Slytherin then he would be the exeption to the rule.

I think Peter Pettigrew isn't really "bad" persay, he just wants to be with a powerful friend.

[SiriuslyBria]

Originally posted by MajkMan
I think Peter Pettigrew isn't really "bad" persay, he just wants to be with a powerful friend.

Peter is weak. Totally selfish and self-absorbed. What was he doing with the Weasley's for all those years? Hiding. He didn't want to return to Voldemort until he knew the guy was strong again. Since his days at Hogwarts, Peter liked big friends who could look after him. His own skin was worth more to him than Harry's whole family or a street full of Muggles. In my mind, that makes him bad. :devil:

[Caenne]

Originally posted by Jennie
If the statement that "every witch or wizard that ever went bad came from Slytherin" is true, does that mean that Sirius was a Slytherin?

No, because the quote does not say 'every witch or wizard who went into Slytherin went bad,' it says the ones who did go bad all happened to have been in Slytherin. All squares/evil wizards are rectangles/Slytherins, but not all rectangles/Slytherins are squares/evil wizards.

The Marauders almost all had to have been in Gryffindor, because otherwise they would not have come into contact with each other often enough to plan out their monthly adventures, etc.

[cbjedi]

SiriuslyBria:

Also, has there always been animosity between Gyffindor and Slytherin?

No way of knowing, but I assume the answer to be yes. After the ugly way that Salazar Slytherin and Godric Gryffindor parted I get the feeling there's been nothing but bad blood between the Slytherins and the Gryffindors. That's just my gut feeling though.

Frankly, what I think JRK is doing is showing that it's a person's choices that determine who they are.

I agree, but I don't think this theme will be developed by having Black in Slytherin house. It was developed by having Crouch Jr. turn evil despite the fact that he came from a pure blood familly. And it's shown strongest through Snape. Snape is someone who when growing up came from a social circle that included many wizards and witches that turned evil, was in a house that turned out a ton of dark wizards and witches, and who may have even been raised by parents who were into dark magic. But he choose to turn sides and do the right thing, despite being around and possibly even being raised around Dark Magic. And to this day he continues to do the right thing by saving Harry's skin from time to time, sometimes even at great risk to himself.

[Katze]

I have more information to back-up my claim that Sirius was in Slytherin.

I found an article that describes how a basilisl is created...there are actually quite a few HP references in this but, I'll concentrate on the Sirius connection in this thread (mabye I'll make a new thread discussing the Basilisk?)

Anyway...here's what this article says:
The mythical king of the serpents. The basilisk, or cockatrice, is a creature that is born from a spherical, yolkless egg, laid during the days of Sirius (the Dog Star) by a seven-year-old rooster and hatched by a toad.

Connection between Sirius and the Basilisk? Maybe!