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Is Harry Potter the Son of God?



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  #1  
Old July 24th, 2007, 6:08 am
blaqlives  Female.gif blaqlives is offline
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Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Discussion of the editorial Is Harry Potter the Son of God? by Abigail BeauSeigneur.


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  #2  
Old July 24th, 2007, 3:37 pm
Mr_Dumberton  Undisclosed.gif Mr_Dumberton is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Dear Abby,
Wow, I think I am actually first. But I guess most people haven't returned to the editorials yet. I thought your editorial was excellent. And now, having read DH, I am more convinced that the Christian motiff was the dominant theme of the series.
To add a few thoughts to your ideas, it has always struck me that Christmas and Easter are mentioned as part of the school year. In a secular "magical" world, these would have no meaning. Plus the idea of a Godfather is a Christian one where a person stands at the baptism, committing to look after the spiritual well-being of the child.
There were several things that struck me from DH as well: The families are buried in a church grave yard and have New Testament scriptures written on their gravestones. "Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also" (Matthew 6:21 and Luke 12:34) and "The last enemy to be destroyed is death" (1 Corinthians 15:26).
You were spot on about Harry sacrificing himself and being able to come back. After reading your editorial I became convinced that Harry would "die" and be resurrected in some way. The idea really is there throughout the books.
One thing really struck me about the chapter after Harry died: the name "King's Cross." Am I reading too much in?
Finally, it seemed to me that JKR alluded to the Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia in this book. Nurmengard the prison of Grindelwald reminded me of Isengard, plus Ron named his daughter Rose (the same as Frodo's sidekick, Sam Gamgee). Most importantly, the scene of Harry walking to face Voldemort was incredibly reminiscent of Aslan walking to face the White Witch. He is going to voluntarily sacrifice his life, he has companions who walk with him, but cannot stay until the end, he stands before the enemy with all of his/her minions, and he is mocked in his death. Of course, just as in the Old Magic from Before the Dawn of Time, death will not hold him.
I can see a time in the future where the "Christian" culture will no longer fear JK Rwoling's work, but begin to claim it for its own. Would love to hear your thoughts. Again, thank you for a well written and insightful article!


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Old July 24th, 2007, 3:46 pm
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

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  #4  
Old July 24th, 2007, 5:25 pm
DD7  Male.gif DD7 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

amazing editorial! when i first read it a few days before DH it really stuck in my mind, i thought perhaps i had read the most accurate article in terms of predicting the outcome of DH. now, having finsihed DH (which was amazing btw!!!!! ) i cant believe how right you were and how simple it was (no need to deeply examine runes/alchamy etc).

i loved the idea of the hallows and master of death and thought that was an amazing twist and really cemented this as my best book ever!

just thought i d say well done!


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  #5  
Old July 24th, 2007, 6:05 pm
charmer19  Female.gif charmer19 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Great editorial! Certainly one of the most convincing ones I've read.

Coincidently, coming from a family of born-again believers as well as HP fans, we were discussing this very topic after we all finished Deathly Hallows.

I totally agree that Christian symbolism is all over Deathly Hallows as well as throughout the series, but I have a problem with stating, "Harry is Jesus Christ." No, he's not. Christ was perfect, never sinning or succumbing to the evils of this world. Anyone who's read Harry Potter knows that Harry certainly IS NOT flawless. That, in fact, is one of the best qualities about the series: the characters are believable (though sometimes ridiculous) and thoroughly human. Even Dumbledore (whom many believed to be the Christ in HP) has made his fair share of mistakes, as we learned in Deathly Hallows.

Regardless, thanks for such a well-researched and compelling editorial. A solid argument against all those Harry-hating Christians!


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Old July 24th, 2007, 11:51 pm
N_H  Undisclosed.gif N_H is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Hallo,

only read your editorial before Deathly Hallows came out -- I did not reread it after book seven. But still I can see how accurate and great your predictions were (I personally did not make one prediction that came true I think ).

Having been fascinated by Rowling's allusions to the New Testament in Harry Potter for quite some time I really enjoyed reading your analysis. You have been (apart from my aunt who made the connection at first sight) the only person to understand the meaning of Potter, Harry's surname. The divino vasaio, devine potter, is Dio creatore, the creating God (see Battaglia "Grande Dizzionario Della Lingua Italiana"). Also the "Deutsches Wörterbuch" by fairy tale collectors Grimm states

Quote:
In the Bible's language the relationship of the creator to to his creature made from earth is compared to the relationship of the potter to his pot made from clay (translation is mine)
Not to mention the Biblical references, of course. To give my little opinion on your question "is Harry Potter the Son of God?", well, he is on the quest at least. After having read Deathly Hallows we know that Harry unites the three relics at one moment in time, at which he does not make use of them: He drops the Ressurrection Stone and subjects himself to death for the greater good, which is at the same time almost a condition. If you want to unite them you ought to not wish to use them. On the other hand your own editorial states and cites

Quote:
"At [the moment of Christ’s death, this curtain] was torn in two, from the top to the bottom. The earth shook and the rocks split. The tombs broke open and the bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life."
In Harry Potter the veil is not torn, the rocks do not split, no one comes back to life except Harry and Voldemort, which may be due to the Nagini Horcrux anyways. But that are details, maybe.

Mr_Dumberton, I understood the chapter title "King's Cross" just like you did, I suppose: Harry, the King of Kings (also the alchemical King) who bears the cross cannot only choose between back as a ghost and forwards into the unknown but can truely go back. He is given the real choice, at crossroads, so to say.

A last thought, in defence of the importance of alchemy to the story. Alchemy in the medieval tradition is to be understood as the quest for God, as far as I understand. An important ingredient in the creation of the Philosopher's Stone is the seeker's own goodness. The essence, the secret of life cannot be found with a selfish motive as we learn in PS/SS. So Rowling's depiction of Hermione as Quicksilver / mind and Ron as Sulfur / body (a little contradiction?) are another reference to Christian mysticism and tradition. Very beautiful, by the way, the imagery of the setting sun Ginny (CoS I remember) that can only be happily together with Harry when he has overcome the night at the first ray of the rising sun.

Well, again, I am incredibly astonished by your predictions, Abigail. I have been interested in the topic for a long time, but could not have found and written down such a perfect conclusive essay.

Kind regards,


N_H


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  #7  
Old July 25th, 2007, 12:36 am
BCSWowbagger  Undisclosed.gif BCSWowbagger is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

So I finish DH, and have this exact brilliant insight. I figure I've just found my first topic ever for a MuggleNet editorial.

And then I not only find that someone figured it out ages ago, but that J.K.R. considered my intelligence to be sub-ten-year-old if I didn't figure it out. :P

You managed to say most of what I thought to say on the topic without having even read Hallows. Highly impressive.

I will now return to lurking for the next several years. :P


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Old July 25th, 2007, 4:09 am
PhoenixFan1971  Female.gif PhoenixFan1971 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

I've been lurking on this board for quite some time and have just come out of the shadows to commend you on a remarkably insightful, well-reasoned, and beautifully explained deconstruction of the Christian aspects of the Harry Potter series. I mean, WOW! I started to see some of the religious allusions a few books ago, but when I finished DH on Saturday night, I was fully convinced of JKR's very intentional writing of a Christian allegory. However, your connections went way beyond anything I could have possibly come up with. Kudos to you!


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Old July 25th, 2007, 7:38 am
KalooKalay  Undisclosed.gif KalooKalay is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

It seems like I have a lot of kindred spirit forum-lurkers on here who are used to reading but not posting....yay! This editorial just screams for a response....I have to say I was completely intrigued, and can't resist weighing in with my own take on things.

I have to say, I'm glad I read this editorial after finishing DH, because once I read it, I was completely convinced. I saw the Christian connection right away as I read DH but never really thought to look in the other books for further connections. Not being a Christian--or a follower of any organized religion, for that matter--I didn't have enough knowledge of Biblical texts to make any connections beyond the resurrection bit, so I was really excited to see someone MUCH more knowledgeable than I am wrote an editorial on the subject.

What I thought was interesting, however, was that when I brought your editorial up to my friend who IS a devout Christian, she refused point-blank to see the books as a Christ story. Her basis for this was the same point that charmer19 makes: Harry is not perfect, but Jesus was. I'm still fairly convinced that Harry IS meant to be a Christ-figure, however. I think your editorial mentions the fact that the books are in no way meant to be a perfect adaptation of the life of Jesus. I agree whole-heartedly with this. If anything, Harry becomes a more accessible, approachable version of Christ. Look at the wide readership of the books: obviously, people of ALL faiths are in love with the story of Harry Potter, and I think part of the reason this story is so appealing is because we can see the humanity in the characters. No, they are not perfect, but we can identify with them. One might argue that in order for it to be a truly good adaptation, it is absolutely crucial that whatever else is changed, Harry must remain perfect. I think, however, that what is important in JKR's version is that while Harry the person is not perfect, his SOUL is pure. Just to name a couple of things that come immediately to mind for me: The polyjuice potion with "essence of Harry" turns the color of pure gold, and all along Dumbledore has said things along the lines of "Those who are not pure cannot handle contact or possession of Harry because he is good and pure" (generalized, of course, to apply to all the situations in the books where this has been the gist of what Dumbledore says). I think it is this purity that is the Christ-like element of Harry. In this way, JKR makes the story extremely accessible to wide variety of readers, but also stays true to the essence of the story of Christ. And we all have to bear in mind also that this IS simply an adaptation, not an exact replica. I think people might have caught to the resemblances a lot sooner if JKR merely changed names and places in the scripture but otherwise stuck strictly to "the Gospel truth".

Anyways, phew, that felt like a lot. I think this is the most I've ever written in a forum before...All in all, this was an AWESOME editorial. It really made me stop and think and process everything I'd read, both in your editorial and in the series as a whole. I really appreciate the extensive notes, because I am definitely intrigued with this subject so now I have some sources to look into on my own time....plus, it shows you did some massive research for this, which is awesome as well. Being a college student, I appreciate the huge amount of time this must have taken Of course, now that DH is out, it's much easier to make the comparisons to the life of Jesus using the series as a whole....for example, I noticed parts of the comparison that were a bit of a stretch because in retrospect, they apply to DH rather than, say, Harry in HBP, but that can be forgiven.....after all, you can't be expected to have foreseen the entire end of the series

Thanks for a great read.


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Old July 25th, 2007, 7:10 pm
padfootmoony  Female.gif padfootmoony is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Let me start by introducing myself as the author of the article, "Is Harry Potter the Son of God?"
Thank you all so far for you comments and compliments. I began this post, and had written individual response to most of your comments, and then suffered an internet browser crash, and lost it all! I will try to reformulate my post, but I think that I will only respond to a couple at this point, because I have spent a while (trying to at least) doing so already.
Mr. Dumberton - I definitely noticed the Bible verses, and think that "King's Cross" was hugely symbolic and intentional. I also know that Harry's story shares a good deal with LotR and Narnia. As I mentioned in my article, people have covered these in other places, so I did not feel the need to. I am not intimately knowledgeable about the Narnia books, and have never read LotR. I also felt that what was most important to show the possibility (and plausibility) of Harry as a Christ allegory was a direct comparison between the two.
However, the similarities in Harry's walk to face Voldemort with Aslan's walk to face the White Witch are undeniable. (Two things make me wonder if JKR has also read and was using a bit of symbolism from The Christ Clone Trilogy, which happen to be written by my father. It may be simple coincidence, but the scene at King's Cross where Harry wishes he had clothes and they suddenly appear has a remarkably similar feel to a similar event in Acts of God, the third book of the trilogy. The other thing is Malfoy's hawthorne wood wand. The protagonist in The Christ Clone Trilogy is named Decker Hawthorne, and Decker and Draco share some interesting similarities at the end of their personal stories. It's a long shot, but who knows?)
Okay, more later, with specific responses more of the posts so far.
Abbey (Abigail BeauSeigneur)


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  #11  
Old July 27th, 2007, 12:35 am
Raven07  Undisclosed.gif Raven07 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

I read this editorial several days before the release of DH and as a result was completely convinced there would be some sort of death and resurrection for Harry. I've been arguing with family and friends for a long time that the themes in Harry Potter are very much Christian.

One of the things I noticed when I was reading HBP, was the scene where Harry is telling McGonagall that Draco was the one to give Katie the necklace; I was was struck by his observation of Ron's and Hermione's behavior. I don't have the exact quote but it was something about them shifting away from him as if they didn't want to associated with him. For some reason, at the time it reminded me of Peter's denial of Christ. Since that was the second time Ron had failed to stand by Harry I was very curious as to whether in DH Ron would turn his back on Harry for the third time. It might be a reach but I really wasn't all that shocked that Ron abandoned the Horcrux search for a time.

Anyway, thank you for such a great editorial. I sent it to my step mother (who hasn't read the books) just before the release of DH and after reading it she decided that she needed to buy the entire series and read it for herself!


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Old July 28th, 2007, 6:34 pm
LaCatrala  Female.gif LaCatrala is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Fantastic editorial. It really does make a lot of sense... though I think it's interesting to notice how few people considered (or consider, now that they've read DH) possible or actual links to Christianity in the plot, symbolism, etc.

Also, agreed on the comments regarding the inclusion of Christmas (with huge celebrations) and Easter in the Wizarding World - and I didn't catch the bit on the headstones! Cool!

I'll have to go back and re-read DH with your editorial more firmly in mind :-) thanks!


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Old July 29th, 2007, 6:37 pm
brokenroad  Undisclosed.gif brokenroad is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

I was wondering if I could have the author's permission to repost the editorial on my MySpace blog? Please?

Check out my review of DH at http://blog.myspace.com/psvochak


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Old July 30th, 2007, 12:07 am
mlp36  Undisclosed.gif mlp36 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

I've thought this same thing ever since book 5, but you put it much more eloquently. And we were right!


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Old July 30th, 2007, 2:54 am
padfootmoony  Female.gif padfootmoony is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Okay, time for more responses.
DD7- Thanks! It's funny, after all the speculation, runes played only the tiniest part, and alchemy didn't really come into play in DH. I was pretty convinced by an alchemy essay on Mugglenet that Hagrid might die, but even that didn't happen.
charmer19- I only meant to say that Harry is an allegorical Christ, and yes, I agree that he is not perfect and that that lessens his similarity to Christ. However, in an allegory, the story (or in this case, character) does not exactly follow the model. If he did, it would only be a retelling.
crazz25 - Thanks. And yes, I did my research. It took a couple months.
N_H- Thanks for the comment. I was actually not really trying to predict how Jo would complete the allegory, I simply wanted to examine the fact that Harry Potter is an allegory. The purpose of my "Possible Scenario" was merely to point out that there was at least one plausible way for Harry to complete the allegory through sacrificing his life and then coming back.
I do not deny that alchemy plays some part in the series, I think there are some alchemy connections, however, it was not needed, after all, to determine the final outcome.
BCSWowbagger- you comment is my favorite anywhere, I appreciate the compliment. I do want to point out that Jo did not merely say that a 10 year old could figure it out, she said that with additional info about her beliefs one could. However, no one had that info. I wouldn't feel insulted or unintelligent because of her comment.
PhoenixFan1971- Thank you for your lovely and specific compliments. I think that therapists suggest specific compliments to couples in therapy. It is a good suggestion, because specific compliments feel especially nice!

I am starting my rereading. I have a radio interview about my article on Friday and I want to really know my stuff. (My initial reading was fast - just devouring the plot!)

More responses later, and again, thanks for the feedback!

Oh real quick - brokenroad, feel free to put the article on your blog, as long as you credit me for writing it, as I am sure you would.
Abbey



Last edited by padfootmoony; July 30th, 2007 at 3:04 am.
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Old July 31st, 2007, 2:40 pm
Mr_Dumberton  Undisclosed.gif Mr_Dumberton is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Would love to hear more about this radio interview...

Also, I noticed on the online interview with JKR she made this comment about the King's Cross reference:
Katie B: Why was kings cross the place harry went to when he died
J.K. Rowling: For many reasons. The name works rather well, and it has been established in the books as the gateway between two worlds, and Harry would associate it with moving on between two worlds (don't forget that it is Harry's image we see, not necessarily
J.K. Rowling: what is really there.


Not sure what she meant by "the name works rather well," but unless she is using the term "cross" as in a crossing, I can't think of what else it might mean...

Also I noticed she talked about the Hufflepuff common room and described it very much like a hobbit hole.


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Old July 31st, 2007, 11:17 pm
N_H  Undisclosed.gif N_H is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Quote:
Originally Posted by padfootmoony View Post
N_H- Thanks for the comment. I was actually not really trying to predict how Jo would complete the allegory, I simply wanted to examine the fact that Harry Potter is an allegory. The purpose of my "Possible Scenario" was merely to point out that there was at least one plausible way for Harry to complete the allegory through sacrificing his life and then coming back.
I do not deny that alchemy plays some part in the series, I think there are some alchemy connections, however, it was not needed, after all, to determine the final outcome.
Oh, Abbey, I am sorry, you got my intention quite wrong. I cited that part of your essay to back up my opinion that "Harry is a Christ figure" does not necessarily mean "Harry is Christ." Rowling wrote something I would call an adaption or application. She shows morality in everyday situations as well as in extreme circumstances. I did not at all mean to talk your predictions down, which have proven so much better than mine and which I do in fact adore. I would have loved to see the veil torn (now this is no criticism of Rowling, notwithstanding).

What I like to argue again, on the other hand, is that the quest of Alchemy is to be understood as a religious and not a chemical quest. Therefore your theory can go hand in hand with any alchemical interpretation. There has not been little alchemy in book seven, but a great bunch indeed. I see Bill and Fleur's wedding as a big fiesta of alchemical imagery, for example. Also the Trio again play their assigned alchemical roles and Harry, the seeker undergoes his final transformations and catches the golden snitch, er, unites the Deathly Hallows and masters death.

As to the chapter title "King's Cross" and J. Rowling saying it "works rather well" I believe that Rowling finds something "works well" if there can be several interpretations and all of them make sense. Harry, the chosen one, the spiritual King, in the quest of Christ, who like Christ bears the cross, er the Horcross, sorry the Horcrux, i.e. who innocently bears the sins of the world (or of Voldemort) and therefore is given the choice to return from the (near) dead, from the crossing to afterlife. You can read so much into it and all fits well, it "works well." That is what I think Rowling means. By the way I made a mistake in my previous posting. Harry can return because of a combination of his blood bond to Voldemort (from the graveyard) and the Nagini Horcrux.

Well, again, please do not get me wrong, your editorial and reasoning is marvellous. It just gets my mind going. No criticism, really.

Kind regards,


N_H


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Old August 2nd, 2007, 2:05 pm
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MaWeasley  Female.gif MaWeasley is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

Reading this again after DH has been released--hats off to you for your incredible insight.


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Old August 3rd, 2007, 5:42 pm
padfootmoony  Female.gif padfootmoony is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

The interview was recorded earlier this morning. It was with "CDR Radio (The PATH) a 14-station Christian radio network broadcasting throughout southwest Ohio, northern Kentucky and the Richmond, Indiana area." It will air tomorrow or in the next few days. They will let me know, and I will let you know. Their website is http://www.thepath.fm/, and you can either listen live, or you can listen to it in archives for up to 2 months after it airs.


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Old August 6th, 2007, 2:00 pm
muggleborn168  Female.gif muggleborn168 is offline
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Re: Is Harry Potter the Son of God?

woah! a great amount of replies!^_^


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