Shouldn't Voldemort have become a ghost?

[tiggergirl0325]

I think she showed why at Harry's "King's Cross". Voldemort's soul was a less than human writhing infantile thing. He didn't have the ability to make the choice to stay because his soul was so incredibly damaged.

[Diotima]

Originally Posted by silverwhisper

Actually my dear Diotima,that's not what they call dramatic irony...Irony maybe,but not dramatic irony,as dramatic irony is a term used in theatrical art to define the situation in which the tragic hero is,and he/she doesn't know it,while the audience does...

Well, then. Wasn't it clever of me to phrase it as a question? To quote a certain gecko I know, "that way, no one ends up looking foolish."
And yeah, now that's I've bothered to check my terms, it is irony.

[espada]

His soul was too tarnished to leave an imprint on the living world, even if he did become a complete ghost, the Ministry will catch him anyways, if not the Ministry, he will be humiliated all day long by everyone in the world, by becoming a ghost he will be powerless, I think he actually would rather die than be overpowered by a bunch of first years.

[Murzim]

I don't think Voldemort would choose to leave a feeble, powerless imprint on the earth. What good would it do him? The ghosts as far as I know can't rule the wizards and that's all he ever wanted to live for, to rule!

I don't like the Nazi parallels too much myself, but Hitler comitted suicide rather than live defeated.

[jlpforpotter]

Didn't Nearly Headless Nick mention that you needed to make a conscious decision to become a ghost? Why would Voldemort have given any thought to dying? He never thought he would have been defeated! He didn't even have any idea that his Horcruxes had been destroyed! Voldemort was far too arrogant to have made back up plans like becoming a ghost.

[the_last_hallow]

Originally Posted by Kaepora

According to Nearly Headless Nick in OotP, people who fear death remain attached to the earth after they die, and become ghosts.

Voldemort feared death like no other. Shouldn't he have become a ghost?

It may be because of the soul splitting, but who knows, he may have become a ghost, we don't know because it wasn't mentioned. I think we will only know for sure when JK decides to publish an encyclopedia.

[ForeverMonday]

Originally Posted by vampiricduck

There was only one eighth of his soul left by the time he died, by his own hand, so maybe he didn't get the choice, and if he did, there wasn't enough of his soul left to make him a ghost.

I counted 1/256th unless he lost a bit of sould every time he killed. I got the impression that his soul split in two every time he made a horcrux, so the first horcrux would have half his soul, the second, half of what was left, that is, a quarter, and so on. Would that make the first horcrux more powerful? Am I completely wrong? Does this deserve a different thread entirely?

[dumbledoreshous]

I think JK forgot about this

[FawkesLament786]

Originally Posted by cgold

I should say that JK has left this open, in my opinion, because she had Harry touch his scar and think that it hasn't bothered him for 19 years and that all was well. Maybe in the back of Harry's mind he believes that Voldemort can come back.

Would this mean Albus Potter would have to battle Voldemort? x.x

[jasper]

Maybe he did. He could have turned out a tiny, naked baby ghost screaching around at the office tower or whatever it was that got built over the site of the orphanage.

Originally Posted by ForeverMonday

I counted 1/256th unless he lost a bit of sould every time he killed. I got the impression that his soul split in two every time he made a horcrux, so the first horcrux would have half his soul, the second, half of what was left, that is, a quarter, and so on. Would that make the first horcrux more powerful? Am I completely wrong? Does this deserve a different thread entirely?

JKR was never that good at maths!

[Jaztastic]

I also think that the baby-like creature he saw is a representation of what is left of his soul, therefore he is too weak to become a ghost or move on, he is stuck there forever, worse than dying.

[jasper]

Originally Posted by Jaztastic

I also think that the baby-like creature he saw is a representation of what is left of his soul, therefore he is too weak to become a ghost or move on, he is stuck there forever, worse than dying.

Good call! Maybe he can't even die - without that remorse that Harry suggests.

[GodricHollow]

You know that thing that's in Kings Cross (or the place that looks like Kings Cross at least)? I reckon that's Voldemort. I reckon, under normal circumstances, those that "go back" become ghosts, and those that "go on" don't. Obviously, Voldemort can't become a ghost because he's not got any soul to leave an imprint of, but he's scared to go on because he's scared of dying.

[jordmundt6]

I dunno. We've known since the duel in the Little Hangleton graveyard from GoF (or maybe since that memorable speech) that Voldemort didn't have enough of his soul left to be a ghost. And the less than infant that was left whimpering in the waystation was the sliver of his soul attached to Harry. He, it, whatever--was too small or unformed, or what-have-you to articulate anything but isolation and pain--it didn't have enough self left to move on or even think for him...it...self so there was no prospect of moving on--just an eternity of that isolation. And yeah--that's much worse than death, it's even worse than the void of no afterlife would be.

No question, Voldemort DOES die, but he couldn't move on or retain sense of self, if he didn't feel the remorse that Harry, mockingly suggested--or, rather, demanded from him (or the piece of him in his new body does). Although that does bring up a question--Even Nagini had to be killed with Gryffindor's blade (something imbued with basilisk poison). Is a fully functioning AK from the Elder Wand enough to destroy a Horcrux--any Horcrux? Is it possible that even before the Wand realized that Harry was its true master, the sliver of Voldemort's soul that was acting like a parasite actually saved Harry's life? Or would an AK work for both the accidental Horcrux and the sliver in Voldemort's body because those soul slivers did not have the extra enchantments binding them to their containers?

By the way, while we're discussing the Elder Wand, that whole Draco was the master of the wand thing was pretty darn thin. That didn't seem like a duel, but then again, Dumbledore wanted to make sure that Draco didn't damage his soul, so it's possible--just possible that he was really trying to defend himself so that Draco wouldn't be in the position to be tempted to commit murder. Now, a more important question--since everybody and all their children will know that Harry Potter is the new master of the Elder Wand and that it actually exists (because Harry shouted it at Voldemort when defeating him and--sort of trying to save him), what's Harry supposed to do to ensure the breaking of the Wand's power after he dies? Live his entire life at 12 Grimmauld Place, in seclusion and avoid challenging or getting challenged by anyone? That obviously didn't happen. I guess we'll just have to Harry never loses a magical duel--or that whoever beats him doesn't think to break into Dumbledore's very obvious grave.

[dantares]

I always wonder why Voldie did not become a ghost? I thought people who are afraid to move on will stay on as ghosts? So since he is so afraid of death, why did he move on?

[Saiorri]

I think LV mutilated his body so much that he didn't have enough life left to become a ghost. And can you imagine a LV ghost floating around somewhere? Whaaaaaaaat? I would think his ghost surpasses the Bloody Baron.

[xambruzzix42]

well, if voldy had become a ghost, it's not like he'd do much harm to anyone. ghosts never seem to exert and magical power really, except to cause discomfort to any living being who walks through them. but i guess if he did become a ghost, he'd probably haunt the life out of harry.

no, i agree with him not having enough soul in him to become a ghost. those horcruxes killed him.

[Rhea7]

I think you need a full soul. Or maybe from his first oppertunity to die, and he dint' take it, he decided to remain earthbound becasue of his Hrocruxes, he was denied the oppertunity of becoming a ghost this time.

[thru_n_thru]

Originally Posted by tiggergirl0325

I think she showed why at Harry's "King's Cross". Voldemort's soul was a less than human writhing infantile thing. He didn't have the ability to make the choice to stay because his soul was so incredibly damaged.

My thoughts exactly. Choice was a huge theme in the series... Voldemort chose to split his soul, which in turn made it impossible for each of those mutilated soul pieces to choose to become a ghost. Imagine 8 ugly little less-than-human raw writhing baby things floating around as ghosts?!

[Melonhead]

I agree that the baby in kings cross was the part of LVs soul that got killed. I think that if some metaphorical entity came along and 'asked' if he wanted to go on then a baby is not likely to be able to answer.
It may be that the other horcruxes 'souls' were different however as Harry was the last Horcrux then they should have the same amount of soul, and presumably would be the same.

I work it out as being:
1. Diary= 1/2
2. Ring= 1/4
3. Locket= 1/8
4. Cup= 1/16
5. Diadem= 1/32
6. Harry= 1/64
7. Nagini= 1/128
8. LV= 1/128

With LV aged 72 (according to the lexicon) when he died 1/128 of his age would be about 7 months old if that is how it is worked out then a 7month old is unlikely to be able to make such a decision.