SPOILERS: So, who has seen OotP?

[Blofeld]

Originally Posted by DarwinMayflower

Well, that is interesting that you bring it up, because I guess you're suggesting that You Only Live Twice was more an action film with Bond Elements rather than a true Bond film.

Somewhat. I'm saying it strayed rather far, plot-wise, from the original source text, leaving out many characters and turning the movie into an overblown action film.

I would compare PS with Dr. No, CoS with From Russia with Love, and PoA with Goldfinger. I'm only leaving out Thunderball because Chris Columbus didn't get a chance to go back and revisit the world he brought to the screen with the fourth film. A shame...

[Wab]

Originally Posted by Freaky

Um, actually, what JK wants is not irrelevant.

Actually, it is. By selling the rights she sold creative control of the films.

[Hogwarts Lake]

Originally Posted by Wab

Actually, it is. By selling the rights she sold creative control of the films.

I am pretty sure she has script approval.

[thedragonfly]

I didn't read through the whole thread (69 pages!), but I'm a bit nervous I'm about to be flayed alive for saying this: OoTP was the second worst HP film. The only reason it wasn't the worst is because in PS, the actors are so young and the acting's not that good. But yeah, OoTP was pretty bad. I was so excited for the movie. The trailer looked great. When the movie ended, I was left disappointed and very unsatisfied. It probably didn't help that I re-read OoTP the day before the movie, so I spotted every little mistake.

First of all, why was OoTP the shortest film when it was the longest book in the series? What kind of flawed logic was that? When I left the theater, I felt it had been too short. I felt like I was deprived of something. Because it was so short, they cut way too much, and the film ended up being extremely choppy. I may be too picky, but I hate when books are turned into movies for that exact reason - too much is left out and deviates from the original text, and the story becomes some over-glorified drama or romance plot. The HP films were the only films (up until now) that I had faith in and relatively enjoyed. I wrote off the first because they were too young to act well, but from CoS on, I always enjoyed the movies, and I felt they were coherent enough for someone who didn't read the books to understand. But when OoTP came around...if you didn't read the book, you left with a distorted understanding of the plot.

Let me start off with the cuts that infuriated me:

- Care of magical creatures and the threstral lesson
- St. Mungos and Neville
- Snape/Sirius tension in the Order headquarters
- Harry/Dumbledore final scene with the prophecy
- Frienze teaching
- Percy's letter to Ron
- Cho sticking up for Harry in the Owlery
- Cho/Harry in Hogsmade
- The brains in the DoM
- Lily being absent in Snape's Worst Memory

And probably more if I could find my book. Those were just off the top of my head.

Now for little changes:
- Sirius, not Mad-Eye giving Harry the original Order picture
- Cho being the snitch and that being why she and Harry broke up
- Umbridge using the last of Veritaserum on Cho, not Harry
- Neville finding the Room of Requirement
- Harry hearing the prophecy in the DoM, not Dumbledore's office
- Harry not being mad at Dumbledore at the end
- Luna explaining about threstrals, not Hagrid
- Harry seeing Sirius being tortured outside, not in the Great Hall
- Harry seeing the Black family tree during Christmas, not summer
- Harry seeing Snape's worst memory in his mind, not the pensive

And of course, little additions that had no basis in the story:
- Umbridge slapping Harry
- Harry's little speech when Voldemort's in his mind in the DoM
- Harry's "I'm so angry" comment to Sirius
- Harry's "Look at me!" to Dumbledore

And I'm sure I can think of so much more.

Now, that all aside, the acting was great. I loved Dan in this movie, and I think he did a great job. The guy who plays Snape did well too. All of the actors did. And the special effects, especially the dream sequences and the DoM and Harry's possession were amazing. The dementors were pretty bad compared to PoA, but I can ignore that. However, it's not just great acting and special effects that makes a movie, and all the stuff above really took away from the movie. Had they stayed truer to the book, this could have easily been my favorite movie. But they didn't, and I'm terrified to think of how HBP will be butchered.

Oh and completely random, but what was with Dudley's gangsta look? Ridiculous.

[YellowRose]

Originally Posted by vkapadia

and i love Ginny too. she's a great actress in a great role. very cute too.

She needs to do other films/theatre as she wont get much of a showcase in the films..they are too full with secondary charaters getting a line at the most

[Lillbet]

The addition of Kreacher felt pasted on and if you didn't know that Mrs. Black's portrait was behind that black curtain and mumbling epithets then I'm not sure that whole bit would have made sense.

[Vacuum]

Did anyone notice that Ginny seemed to be extra powerful in this movie?

There are two points to review:

When they are practicing repelling *** V dummy in the room of requirement, she fires a spell at it and it pulverizes it. Everyone kind of stops and looks at her.

Then, later, in the hall of prophecy right before they leave she turns and fires a spell in the air at a few death eaters. The spell kind of explodes and causes the massive collapse of the shelves and prophecies. Everyone had to run for it.


I've read the books and I don't remember this reflected in the books. Are the movies developing their own subplot about a super-powerful Ginny?

[thedragonfly]

Originally Posted by Lillbet

The addition of Kreacher felt pasted on and if you didn't know that Mrs. Black's portrait was behind that black curtain and mumbling epithets then I'm not sure that whole bit would have made sense.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. The fact that they didn't even show the portrait even though they showed the family tree made no sense. Would it have killed them to add on another five minutes?

[Chrisbee05]

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

I didn't read through the whole thread (69 pages!), but I'm a bit nervous I'm about to be flayed alive for saying this: OoTP was the second worst HP film. The only reason it wasn't the worst is because in PS, the actors are so young and the acting's not that good. But yeah, OoTP was pretty bad. I was so excited for the movie. The trailer looked great. When the movie ended, I was left disappointed and very unsatisfied. It probably didn't help that I re-read OoTP the day before the movie, so I spotted every little mistake.

First of all, why was OoTP the shortest film when it was the longest book in the series? What kind of flawed logic was that? When I left the theater, I felt it had been too short. I felt like I was deprived of something. Because it was so short, they cut way too much, and the film ended up being extremely choppy. I may be too picky, but I hate when books are turned into movies for that exact reason - too much is left out and deviates from the original text, and the story becomes some over-glorified drama or romance plot. The HP films were the only films (up until now) that I had faith in and relatively enjoyed. I wrote off the first because they were too young to act well, but from CoS on, I always enjoyed the movies, and I felt they were coherent enough for someone who didn't read the books to understand. But when OoTP came around...if you didn't read the book, you left with a distorted understanding of the plot.

Let me start off with the cuts that infuriated me:

- Care of magical creatures and the threstral lesson
- St. Mungos and Neville
- Snape/Sirius tension in the Order headquarters
- Harry/Dumbledore final scene with the prophecy
- Frienze teaching
- Percy's letter to Ron
- Cho sticking up for Harry in the Owlery
- Cho/Harry in Hogsmade
- The brains in the DoM
- Lily being absent in Snape's Worst Memory

And probably more if I could find my book. Those were just off the top of my head.

Now for little changes:
- Sirius, not Mad-Eye giving Harry the original Order picture
- Cho being the snitch and that being why she and Harry broke up
- Umbridge using the last of Veritaserum on Cho, not Harry
- Neville finding the Room of Requirement
- Harry hearing the prophecy in the DoM, not Dumbledore's office
- Harry not being mad at Dumbledore at the end
- Luna explaining about threstrals, not Hagrid
- Harry seeing Sirius being tortured outside, not in the Great Hall
- Harry seeing the Black family tree during Christmas, not summer
- Harry seeing Snape's worst memory in his mind, not the pensive

And of course, little additions that had no basis in the story:
- Umbridge slapping Harry
- Harry's little speech when Voldemort's in his mind in the DoM
- Harry's "I'm so angry" comment to Sirius
- Harry's "Look at me!" to Dumbledore

And I'm sure I can think of so much more.

Now, that all aside, the acting was great. I loved Dan in this movie, and I think he did a great job. The guy who plays Snape did well too. All of the actors did. And the special effects, especially the dream sequences and the DoM and Harry's possession were amazing. The dementors were pretty bad compared to PoA, but I can ignore that. However, it's not just great acting and special effects that makes a movie, and all the stuff above really took away from the movie. Had they stayed truer to the book, this could have easily been my favorite movie. But they didn't, and I'm terrified to think of how HBP will be butchered.

Oh and completely random, but what was with Dudley's gangsta look? Ridiculous.

I TOTALLY agree with this one: "Harry seeing Snape's worst memory in his mind, not in the Pensieve." That deviates too much from the book and JKR's intentions. It's very misleading to people who have not read the books. The book states that Snape is a very experienced and talented Occlumens, so if he was that talented, Harry, who, let's face it, STINKS in that department, would NOT have been able to infiltrate Snape's mind.

[thedragonfly]

Originally Posted by Chrisbee05

I TOTALLY agree with this one: "Harry seeing Snape's worst memory in his mind, not in the Pensieve." That deviates too much from the book and JKR's intentions. It's very misleading to people who have not read the books. The book states that Snape is a very experienced and talented Occlumens, so if he was that talented, Harry, who, let's face it, STINKS in that department, would NOT have been able to infiltrate Snape's mind.

While I'm glad you agree with me, I do have to correct you. Harry was able to break into Snape's mind in OoTP. If you look at page 591 - 592, you'll see:

"Snape staggered; his wand flew upward, away from Harry - and suddenly Harry's mind was teeming with memories that were not his - a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...A greasy-haired teenager sat alone in a dark bedroom, pointing his want at the ceiling, shooting down flies...A girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick -"

So Harry can and did break into Snape's mind (accident, mind you), but he just didn't see Snape's worst memory there.

[Chrisbee05]

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

While I'm glad you agree with me, I do have to correct you. Harry was able to break into Snape's mind in OoTP. If you look at page 591 - 592, you'll see:

"Snape staggered; his wand flew upward, away from Harry - and suddenly Harry's mind was teeming with memories that were not his - a hook-nosed man was shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner...A greasy-haired teenager sat alone in a dark bedroom, pointing his want at the ceiling, shooting down flies...A girl was laughing as a scrawny boy tried to mount a bucking broomstick -"

So Harry can and did break into Snape's mind (accident, mind you), but he just didn't see Snape's worst memory there.

LOL. I guess you're right again. I only read OotP once and it was when it first came out, so I'm not quite up to date. Oops! Thanks!

[thedragonfly]

Originally Posted by Chrisbee05

LOL. I guess you're right again. I only read OotP once and it was when it first came out, so I'm not quite up to date. Oops! Thanks!

No problem! I re-read it really recently in preparation for DH, so I have an edge.

[DarwinMayflower]

I (or someone else) will probably address some of your other points in the post later but for starters I'd like to address this point.

Originally Posted by cityxstargazers

First of all, why was OoTP the shortest film when it was the longest book in the series? What kind of flawed logic was that?

No flawed logic. If there is far too much fat, then that has to be cut away. That's like saying ROTK was too short of a film and being the longest because they didn't include the appendices. Just because something is in the book does not necessarily mean it should be in the film. What if JKR spend 200 pages talking specifically about Muggle Studies or the Chudley Cannons when it had no revelence to the series plot? Should that be included?

Another example would be comparing The Matrix Series with the film Dark City which is basically the exact same movie but where the Matrix failed being overweight by it's own glamour and pretentiousness, Dark City succeeded by cutting out all the waste that in the Matrix series and made for a lean mean film machine; this film actually being released before the Matrix series came out.

[kylecisnum1]

saw it 3 times in the opening week! first time i saw it i was really dissapointed since that was my favorite of all the books but the 2nd and 3rd time i saw it i liked it a lot more. probably because i already knew what was missing so i didnt have to think about that stuff at the time. overall though, i thought it was an amazing movie!!!! wish they woulda had the quidditch scenes though. they better not leave it out in HBP though since that is what eventually leads to the hot passionate love scene between harry and ginny (lol)!!!

[Shuichi]

I think OotP is definitely the best movie so far. Yates(?) did a good job of making sure to keep only what was necessary. A lot of people don't like how quick the pacing was, but I did. Things were moving fast enough to keep my interest (unlike, say, PS and CoS), and though it did have a somewhat "disjointed" feel at times, I think this suited the movie very well.

The actors were really good. Dan Radcliffe, especially, is getting a lot better, and Michael Gambon, whom I previously disliked, is growing on me. Plus, it seems that Emma Watson isn't acting with her eyebrows as much, which is definitely a step in the right direction. Jason Isaacs was really awesome in the DoM scenes, too, and Gary Oldman (whom I also didn't like much at first) was great as well.

As for the new characters, they were all great. Imelda Staunton was the perfect Umbridge, exactly what I imagined while reading the books, right down to the stupid girly laugh. Helena Bonham Carter was great as Bellatrix; delightfully creepy. Her "How's mum and dad?" line was so wonderfully evil, I loved it! Evanna Lynch was great as well (and she's so cute!). Her voice got on my nerves a little bit, but she can't help that, and it suits the "dreamy" sort of voice that Luna is supposed to have. (And this is completely random, but I also liked young!Snape, even if we only saw about two seconds of him.)

I really liked the MoM. I never could get a clear picture of it in my head, and the fact that the movie version of the MoM is so, well, awesome really helped me get an image of it. I also liked the Hitler/Stalin/Big Brother-esque Fudge poster in the MoM. It was a nice touch.

I loved the scene in the Forbidden Forest when Umbridge says "Tell them I mean no harm!" and Harry says "Sorry professor, but I must not tell lies." Classic! The whole theatre started cheering at that part. They also cheered when Fudge said "he's back!" at the end, and I heard quite a few people say things like "Finally!" and "About time!" It was wonderful to see the audience get so into the movie!

The battle at the DoM was very well-done, also. I didn't really get the whole white smoke/black smoke thing, but it was cool. I also think it was really sad that Sirius's last words to Harry are "Good one, James!" What really ties that scene in for me is Dan's expression there: he looks confused, and like he's about to say, "...James?" but before he can say anything, WHAM! Sirius gets AK'd. It helped give the scene more of an impact.

However, Sirius's death is also my gripe with the film: it didn't have enough impact. I think this might have been due to the fact that we didn't get CAPSLOCK!Harry during the scene where he's talking to Dumbledore. I wish they could've just taken two or three minutes to add that in, but alas...

All in all, this was a really wonderful movie, and I loved it so much. I can't wait until it comes out on DVD because, I assure you, the DVD and player are going to get so worn out from me having re-watched it about a million times!

There's more to say, but I think I'll shut up now; this post is tl;dr enough as it is.

[cgold]

In the books it's mentioned a number of times that she's a very powerful witch (Fred, Ron, George, Slughorn). I think the director just saved the time of people telling this by doing a demonstration as actions speak louder than words.

Cheers

[katishere]

The way I see they were just killing two birds with one stone. THey had to make Ginny more of a character and they had to show her strong personality that makes Harry like her so much in the next movie. In the book this is done by having her go out with Michael and Dean but there was already too much romance with the Harry/Cho thing to make that work so they just turned her Bat-Bogey hex into the "reducto!" thing. I think it's an excellent way of bringer her up to the front lines because people have to see her as a worthy partner for Harry and the way they used her as practically an extra in the first four movies was certainly not doing it.

[Blofeld]

Since no one's responded to it, I'll repost my argument:

I really enjoyed OotP. In a way, it's the On Her Majesty's Secret Service of the Potter films, in that's it's basically Harry Potter: Back to Basics.

Of course, this would mean that GoF is the You Only Live Twice of the films, but I have no objections with that; both Lewis Gilbert and Mike Newell were way out of their depths when they made their respective franchise films. Also, it strayed rather far, plot-wise, from the original source text, leaving out many characters and turning the movie into an overblown action film.

I would compare PS with Dr. No, CoS with From Russia with Love, and PoA with Goldfinger. I'm only leaving out Thunderball because Chris Columbus didn't get a chance to go back and revisit the world he brought to the screen with the fourth film. A shame...

[DarwinMayflower]

Just to tell you I would reply to your post if I were more well versed in Bond Films and the books. However I remember from the GOD AWFUL thread about HP being inferior to other franchises that there was a Jame Bond fan on there as well who is just as knowledagable as you are on 007. I did really like and appreciate that you went out of your way to explain the whole James Bond film similiarities in adaption and films relative to the books for us in your thread "pre-DH release shutdown" I'd personally like to read a discussion between you and our other Bond fanatic that regulars the boards here however it seems oppurtunities are rare now for any sort of decent discussion. Alas poor yorick.

[Blofeld]

Yes, that's sad. By the way, whatever happened to that thread (the Harry Potter/James Bond comparison)? I can't find the link to it on my "threads started" page.