The tunnel between the Room of Requirement and the Hogs Head

[arameme]

I'm betting either 1)Albus and Aberforth knew about the tunnel before Aberforth became barman at the Hogshead, or 2)they created it so they could communicate privately.
Also propose that Albus was giving Harry a hint when he mentioned the ROR.

[Pimzie]

Maybe it gave Neville the tunnel as a protection to itself because it knew he would use its powers to save Hogwarts from the Death Eaters.

What was Dumbledore's quote? Something bout Help being given to those at Hogwarts who asked for it? This would fit I'd say.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Pimzie

What was Dumbledore's quote? Something bout Help being given to those at Hogwarts who asked for it? This would fit I'd say.

Yup, that's from CoS, if I remember correctly.

And, I too believe that DD deliberately told Harry about the RoR in GoF. DD may not have known the full details of the room - the fact the tiara was there suggests otherwise - but I think he knew that Harry's different perspective could only help.

I can only imagine Aberforth's reaction when Neville popped out unannounced

[surrypotter]

Originally Posted by King_Sirius

it definately wasn't there, though it does show an exploit in Hogwart's defenses.... Why couldnt you just ask for a room to disapparate from? or a room to give you all the o.w.l answers?

Do you think Dumbledore knew about the RoR and the whole chamber pot thing was his humour about the room.... He's obviously smart enough to work out what it did?

I'm pretty sure DD knew about the R.o.R ... I mean ... Trelawney knew about it too. I'm sure they knew, but didn't necessarily know all of the things it could possibly do. I mean, If you think about it, anything you require would nearly be at your fingertips in some fashion.

Another interesting piece though is that the tunnel falls behind the portrait of DD and Abe's Sister, they're only remaining connection.

[Wright1771]

I think the tunnel was found by the room itself. As Neville said that the only thing the room did not supply was food.....it had to find an outlet when he asked for it!
The outlet could have been to the Hogwarts kitchen, couldn't it....but no, it found a way out, into the Hogs Head.

[Rink]

Originally Posted by Ralphmuggle

I wonder if Harry had hidden there and really understood the room, if he could have created tunnels to go to each of the missing Horcruxes? I suppose dramatically that would have been too easy.

Heh. What a rubbish end to the whole Harry Potter phenom that would have been.

Maybe the RoR needs a little more info from the person doing the requiring? i.e. You have to know what you're looking for? Neville might not have named the Hog's Head specifically but it was a place he knew. I guess the room could have given him a tunnel to another shop or something but it might have decided that in addition to food, he might also need some help and sent him to Aberforth.

Harry didn't know what the remaining Horcruxes were or where they were. I don't think the RoR could have helped there.

If the girls had never seen a bathroom when they wanted their own area to do their business in, I'd guess the RoR would have given them a curtain and a bucket.

[sarahlvinpotter]

Originally Posted by Impossamole

how Neville got in contact with Aberforth

Neville says that the tunnel opened up after he'd spent about a day in the room and was hungry. I think the tunnel already existed and a person just had to think of being hungry while in the room of requirement for it to open up. I do not think it was by coincidence that the tunnel lead into the Hogs Head, behind a painting of Dumbledore and Aberforth's sister. I'm more inclined to believe that Dumbledore and Aberforth knew about the tunnel.

how the tunnel between school and Hogs head was created?

Well how was the room of requirement created for that matter? Hogwarts was a magical school with many secrets. This tunnel was just another one of those.

Thats just what i thought the tunnel opened because someone in the RoR was in need of it, just like how the magic of the room works.

[rachelr62442]

it opened up because neville wanted it to. in the room of requirment if you want space to fight, it gives you it, if you want a whistle, it gives you that too... neville wanted a safe link to the outside world to get food, the room supplied it.

[Snape919]

The talk about 'existence' in this context needs to be examined, because we're talking about magic here. Some wizards are capable of conjuring things out of nothing, and likewise vanishing something completely out of existence. So when we talk about if the tunnel 'existed' or not, we can't think in our old 'Muggle' way. Did it exist? Yes. Did it only exist when Neville requested it? Highly probable. Did it cease to exist when Neville no longer needed it? Very likely yes. Does its existence have to take up physical space, or be concerned with such things as its starting on the seventh floor? Of course not. There is a definite reason why Hogwarts does not teach Physics or Chemistry. The physical rules of our Muggle world do not apply to the magical world inhabited by Harry & Co.

[alexgreat]

i think it is a bridge between two painting

[bulldog7_23]

I don't believe the tunnel already existed previously to Neville's desire to forgo starvation. The Room of Requirement was purposed with providing the user's every wish, with the exception of wishes that could not be fulfilled because of a violation of magical law. To provide the user with food would have been a violation, therefore, the room did the next best thing and provided a safe way to get food without endangering the occupant, which would have been a violation of the first request of Neville, a safe place to hideout. Remember, we are dealing with magic here, so check your logic at the door. Logically, a tunnel that had never previously existed could not have been created, least not by a room. However, magic deals very little with our muggle logic. The room's exit was able to be moved around without remaining stationary. In my opinion, we are trying to think of the floor structure of Hogwarts in a very three dimensional sense. However, magic does not operate in our normal dimensions. Is it really far-fetched to believe that the floor structure of a magical institution like Hogwarts can defy normal conventions and shift to allow for a room to float about, changing positions and shifting normal parameters of structure? I, personally, don't think so. Also, just a small thing to point out. Some people are saying the tunnel would have had to be invisible because the RoR was on the seventh floor. While this is true, the narrative states that, when Neville was leading the trio through the passage, they had to go down stairs at first, travel along the passage way, and then climb back upstairs to get to the entrance into the RoR from the passage, if I remember correctly. It mentions something about Neville being winded as he walked up the incline or something, I believe. If this is true, then the tunnel could have been underground.

Just one other thing, though. Anyone else find it funny that medicine is not considered a food-related object by the RoR, and thus, by wizard law? I mean naturally its not a food, however, if the room couldn't provide food because of Gamp's law then how could it have provided medicine when Dobby was helping Winky with her butterbeer addiction?

[tcat75]

It couldn't have been a true tunnel; after all, you come out of a picture frame! Its a version of a portkey, possibly, or some other version of magical transport. And undetectable, because it was created by the Room of Requirement.

[Garwain]

The idea of a tunnel appearing out of Requirement does conflict with the constant assertions that the castle of Hogwarts is the ultimate in safe-keeping. In fact, such a function is highly dangerous in a school full of children, because just as Neville had Requirements for the tunnel, another person with more malicious intentions would no doubt have their own Requirements as well. I would like to think that the tunnel wouldn't appear for that person, that the castle wouldn't allow itself such a vulnerability. It isn't really in keeping with the way I understood the castle to ..operate, for lack of a better term. I think a lot of the magic of the castle has more or less grown wild, like the Ford Anglia, and in that example we see a certain amount of personality in the animated object. I definitely think that the castle is the same: with a personality.

All that being said, I also imagine that the manner in which Neville found the tunnel is comparable to the way Harry found the Stone in the first book. One of those tricky little nuances that Dumbledore added to the spell. I think Hogwarts is more than capable of coming up with those; the Room of Requirement itself is a fine example of that.

It would have been a very specific scenario that allowed Neville access to the Hogs Head, where I'm sure his first interaction with Aberforth would have made for a more than amusing read!



I'd also like to add that these kinds of situations are what made the books really enjoyable, so that I can still read them at age 22 despite their having been written specifically for youths! There is so much more going on in the story than what is happening to Harry at any given moment.

[merrymarge]

the whole ROR is very mysterious. why did it create a bathroom for girls to wash in and not for the boys? Didn't they need to wash too?
Dumbledore insists that he didn't know of all the secrets of Hogwarts. I am sure he didn't know too much about the ROR. did he know of the tunnel in the Hogs Head? I don't think so. Still until Jo tells us, we will just wonder about it.

[ajna]

I got the impression that Dumbledore was not fully aware of the RoR and that it was part of the Castle's deeper magic. If Dumbledore wasn't aware of it, he couldn't of known it was a vulnerable point.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by Garwain

The idea of a tunnel appearing out of Requirement does conflict with the constant assertions that the castle of Hogwarts is the ultimate in safe-keeping. In fact, such a function is highly dangerous in a school full of children, because just as Neville had Requirements for the tunnel, another person with more malicious intentions would no doubt have their own Requirements as well. I would like to think that the tunnel wouldn't appear for that person, that the castle wouldn't allow itself such a vulnerability. It isn't really in keeping with the way I understood the castle to ..operate, for lack of a better term. I think a lot of the magic of the castle has more or less grown wild, like the Ford Anglia, and in that example we see a certain amount of personality in the animated object. I definitely think that the castle is the same: with a personality.

The reason I think it's perfectly plausible that the castle give the kids in the ROR a passageway to safety is just that - the castle, by giving these kids this outlet, is protecting them from having to interact with the Carrows or the other DEs roaming the castle we aren't told about. I think the castle is less about simply keeping people out in the true sense of what a fortification does but rather that its mission is more about keeping the students safe on the whole. The reason the castle couldn't keep all the students safe from the Carrows is because the Carrows were already inside the castle walls with the students. The reason the ROR could protect the rogue students more effectively is because you could make demands of the room in a way that you couldn't similarly make demands of the rest of the castle. You could ask the ROR to specifically keep people out, specifically provide you with necessities like bathrooms and beds and an escape passage. You can't ask the same of the charms corridor or the transfiguration classroom or the dungeons.

All that being said, I also imagine that the manner in which Neville found the tunnel is comparable to the way Harry found the Stone in the first book. One of those tricky little nuances that Dumbledore added to the spell. I think Hogwarts is more than capable of coming up with those; the Room of Requirement itself is a fine example of that.

I don't think Dumbledore cast a spell on the ROR so that if someone asked for a secret passage out of the room it would take them to his brother's bar. I disagree with several posters in this thread that Dumbledore even knew what the ROR was or that he was somehow dropping the hint to Harry about it in GOF. Personally, I like the idea of Dumbledore not knowing everything, not planning everything, not being the cosmic overlord of the entire series because that's just (get ready to laugh!) not realistic. (as if the series as a whole is realistic ) As a personal preference I like when characters are fallible. I like James as a character because he is fallible. I like Snape as a character because he is immensely fallible. I like Lily and Lupin and Sirius as characters because they are all fallible. Harry is successful as a character because he is fallible.

To think Dumbledore is so smart that he could foresee that Neville (or anyone else) would think to use the ROR to hide from DEs that would take over the running of Hogwarts and turn it into the magical world's high school from hell is giving him too much credit IMO. It's okay that he didn't know. By him not knowing it allows Harry to make discoveries on his own that show that his experiences in the previous books meant something; he wasn't just wandering around waiting for Dumbledore to drop him another hint, he was capable of discovering things on his own and recognizing their significance.

It would have been a very specific scenario that allowed Neville access to the Hogs Head, where I'm sure his first interaction with Aberforth would have made for a more than amusing read!

That would have been great

[ajna]

How much does Dumbledore even know about the RoR and how it works? He didn't seem to know it exists previously. He doesn't seem to have ever been it. It must know about it after The OotP. At first I thought that Dumbledore knew about it, and was giving Harry a hint about it's existence, in GoF, but then later, I felt that it was something Dumbledore really didn't know about. And if he did, would that have given him power over the room? And even if the castle is somewhat sentient as some here seem to think, I don't know if it is self protective or protective over the kids. Do we even know if the castle is self determining? It seems to just be the vessel of magic that can be good or bad. If it was, I think it would have acted against the Vanishing Cabinets once their use became clear. No, I think the Castle might be magical but it is capricious and also not self determining. I've see no evidence that Dumbledore ever knew about the RoR or that it had any function to the castle whatsoever. It was simply another aspect of magic within the castle.

Originally Posted by merrymarge

the whole ROR is very mysterious. why did it create a bathroom for girls to wash in and not for the boys? Didn't they need to wash too?
Dumbledore insists that he didn't know of all the secrets of Hogwarts. I am sure he didn't know too much about the ROR. did he know of the tunnel in the Hogs Head? I don't think so. Still until Jo tells us, we will just wonder about it.

Well, a "Bathroom" in Britain isn't the same as a "bathroom" in America. I'm supposing that it provided extra amenities that girls would appreciate, like bubble baths, and mirrors and fluffy towels in addition to mere toilets.

[MerryLore]

Originally Posted by Goddess_Clio

I don't think Dumbledore cast a spell on the ROR so that if someone asked for a secret passage out of the room it would take them to his brother's bar. I disagree with several posters in this thread that Dumbledore even knew what the ROR was or that he was somehow dropping the hint to Harry about it in GOF.

But, Dumbledore was Headmaster of the castle, and surrounded by portraits of previous Headmasters. The title to me suggests that the person is the main master of Hogwarts and is privy to it's secrets. I can't imagine him not knowing about the RoR, although he may not have known what it was when he originally stumbled upon it, since he most likely first discovered it when he was a professor. But I believe the information would have been passed down through the generations.

The RoR helps those in need, and the tunnel to Aberforth's may have been created later, when the students needed a way to escape and the Order needed a way in.

[Goddess_Clio]

Originally Posted by ajna

if the castle is somewhat sentient as some here seem to think, I don't know if it is self protective or protective over the kids. Do we even know if the castle is self determining? It seems to just be the vessel of magic that can be good or bad. If it was, I think it would have acted against the Vanishing Cabinets once their use became clear. No, I think the Castle might be magical but it is capricious and also not self determining. I've see no evidence that Dumbledore ever knew about the RoR or that it had any function to the castle whatsoever. It was simply another aspect of magic within the castle.

To clarify, I don't really think the castle is sentient or thinks for itself or that sort of thing, i think if it protects the students it's because long ago a spell was cast over the castle so that it would act to protect the students if they were in danger.

As for the castle being magical in its own right I think it sort of absorbs the latent magic in the air like how stone absorbs sunlight and reemitts its heat later - the castle might absorb the magic in the air from having so many magical residents and that magic squirts out in unexpected places like the vanishing step or the stair that leads somewhere different on a Friday or by moving classrooms around, etc. How much of these things were conscious acts by someone putting a vanishing spell on that step we don't know but I do think some of the magic the castle itself is capable of is because of all the magic that goes on inside and around it.

[twinsrule26]

I believe that the tunnel was created by Albus in order to have a private way to visit his brother . I also believe that the original opening at the school was not in the RoR but somewhere else in the school, maybe in the head masters private area of the school .
I think that the RoR connected to the school's end of the tunnel when Neville needed food. We have seen the RoR move things from all over the school to the RoR when someone in there needed them. IE the foe glass and cushions and DADA books that Harry needed for teaching the DA. Harry needed a whistle and magically one appeared so I think the RoR simply connected to the secret tunnel to help Neville out .