Things That Took Several Readings To Catch v. 8.0

[Harachel]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

Are you saying that Snape literally turned into a bat? He didn't; his billowing cloak just made him appear to be a bat.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. I didn't mean that Snape actualy did turn into a bat. But he was finnaly leting out that iner batyness that Ron had perceived in him so many years before

Gosh, don't read things so literaly. :P

And yeah, I guesse my thestral thing dosen't realy work.

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by Harachel

Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough. I didn't mean that Snape actualy did turn into a bat. But he was finnaly leting out that iner batyness that Ron had perceived in him so many years before

Gosh, don't read things so literaly. :P

And yeah, I guesse my thestral thing dosen't realy work.

That's ok Harachel, just my innate nitpickiness.

[MrSleepyHead]

Originally Posted by snapes_witch

No, Harry still didn't see the thestrals at that point in the story. In an interview JKR said he hadn't yet absorbed Cedric's death. Actually I believe she wanted to wait till OotP to introduce the threstals so had to put up with a small plot hole.

JKR has explicitly told us that Harry not seeing thestrals at the end of GoF is not a mistake - it was very much planned in the way it played out. Thus, her explanation is not simply a justification for a plot hole after-the-fact:

J K Rowling at the Edinburgh Book Festival, Sunday, August 15, 2004. In the fifth book, Harry can see the Thestrals. Can you? Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through. Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means. Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body. Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book.

But, of course, you are correct in saying that JKR thought thestrals were too big an issue to be introduced at the end of GoF - but that is only a small part of the reason (and not the in-story reason) why Harry could not see thestrals then. We could claim that JKR was covering her tracks, etc., but since she explicitly says it is not a mistake and that she planned it this way, I will give her the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by willfitz

If it was actually just to do with seeing, he would have been able to see them ever since his mother died before his very eyes.

Based on JKR's explanation above, plus Voldemort's account of Godric's Hollow in DH, I think we can say that Harry did not witness his mother's murder with his own eyes:

DH, Ch. 17, Bathilda's Secret, Page 344, American, HB At the sight of him she dropped her son into the crib behind her and threw her arms wide, as if this would help, as if in shielding him from sight she hoped to be chosen instead.... ... The child had not cried all this time: He could stand, clutching the bars of his crib, and he looked up into the intruder's face with a kind of bright interest...

This passage from the book is inconclusive: since Harry could stand, it is possible that he saw his mother guarding him and then drop from the Avada Kedavra curse. However, when added with JKR's comment ("Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time."), I think that inconclusiveness is abolished: Harry must not have actually witnessed Lily's murder with his eyes.

[AlDumblydorr]

I was reading the goblet of fire again and I came across a description of LV that i hadn't seen before. before he is dumped into the cauldron that initiated his rebirth, jkr described him as: "It was as though Wormtail had flipped over a stone and revealed something ugly, slimy, and blind --but worse, a hundred times worse. The thing Wormtail had been carrying had the shape of a crouched human child, except that Harry had never seen anything less like a child. It was hairless and scaly-looking, a dark, raw, reddish black, etc. etc.

this description reflects very well with the creature in the kings cross chapter in DH, and i think that makes it pretty clear that the creature was voldemort without a proper body, without a real soul.

[Kat_Suki]

Originally Posted by AlDumblydorr

this description reflects very well with the creature in the kings cross chapter in DH, and i think that makes it pretty clear that the creature was voldemort without a proper body, without a real soul.

I agree, it matches perfectly with the wretched creature seen in "King's Cross".

However, rather than being soulless, I'd say it's actually that final sliver of soul that he had left, what's left over from his cutting away and mutilating his soul in creating Horcruxes; he was becoming less human and more bestial - mentally/spiritually/physically - with each Horcrux he made.

[tweak1]

It might take a few readings to of the Goblet Of Fire to figure out that Pansy sent Hermione the envelope filled with blubotubber pus but why else would Pansy have been eavesdropping when Hagrid asked Ron and Harry why Hermione wasn't in class? If I wanted to write a fanfiction nailing her for that, what would be a good way to go about it?

[gelowo93]

That's a great find tweak1. I always thought it was a coincidence that they were learning about Bubotuber Pus and then someone just happens to send Hermione an envelope full of it and I assumed Pansy was just being nosy (I think the Gryffindors have Herbology with Hufflepuffs but Slytherins would learn the same thing).

Originally Posted by tweak1

If I wanted to write a fanfiction nailing her for that, what would be a good way to go about it?

Maybe if you did it in Pansy's PoV, from her reading the article and then up to the end of Hagrid's lesson?

I haven't read the series in a while so can't think of something that took a few re-readings to catch. Next time I do, I'll probably come across loads more

[leah49]

Originally Posted by AlDumblydorr

I was reading the goblet of fire again and I came across a description of LV that i hadn't seen before. before he is dumped into the cauldron that initiated his rebirth, jkr described him as: "It was as though Wormtail had flipped over a stone and revealed something ugly, slimy, and blind --but worse, a hundred times worse. The thing Wormtail had been carrying had the shape of a crouched human child, except that Harry had never seen anything less like a child. It was hairless and scaly-looking, a dark, raw, reddish black, etc. etc.

this description reflects very well with the creature in the kings cross chapter in DH, and i think that makes it pretty clear that the creature was voldemort without a proper body, without a real soul.

Not only that, but it shows just how disgusting he is. Ew.

[Hufflepufflian]

The fact that Mafalda Hopkirk, the witch who always writes Harry his letters when he performs 'illegal' magic was also the person Hermione turned into when they infiltrated the Ministry (:

[ohsnapkid]

Perhaps I'm reading way too much into this, but I found this passage extremely interesting (as Harry is discovering the Pensieve in DD's office).

Goblet of Fire, p. 583 in the U.S. hardcover version:

The sword had once belonged to Godric Gryffindor, founder of Harry's House. He was gazing at it, remembering how it had come to his aid when he had thought all hope was lost, when he noticed a patch of silvery light, dancing and shimmering on the glass case. He looked around for the source of the light and saw a sliver of silver-white shining brightly from within a black cabinet behind him, whose door had not been closed properly.

So many potential allusions to The Silver Doe, right?

First, the sword being associated with hopelessness and despair - at that point in DH, their progress had halted completely and the situation appeared very dire, similar to CoS where Harry also had no weapon to dispose of the threat at hand.

Silvery light (the patronus of the doe itself) shimmering and dancing (the ripples of the water and the overall feeling of benevolence associated with the doe). We could take it a bit further and connect glass case with water, too, if only in an aesthetic sense.

Lastly, 'within a black cabinet' could easily mean Snape, who famously had black hair, dressed in black, etc. 'Whose door had not been closed properly' = his story had not been fully elucidated to that point and there were innumerable questions about his loyalties and past.

Am I insane for interpreting this passage as such, or does anyone else see the hints?

[snapes_witch]

Originally Posted by Hufflepufflian

The fact that Mafalda Hopkirk, the witch who always writes Harry his letters when he performs 'illegal' magic was also the person Hermione turned into when they infiltrated the Ministry (:

Good catch! I'd missed that one too.

[DA93]

Originally Posted by Hufflepufflian

The fact that Mafalda Hopkirk, the witch who always writes Harry his letters when he performs 'illegal' magic was also the person Hermione turned into when they infiltrated the Ministry (:

Wow, thats almost creepy. I started reading OotP last night and realized that Mafalda Hopkirk was the witch writing Harry's letter. So when i woke up today i went straight to my computer to write my new "discovery" in this thread and I see that you have just written the exact same thing

Edit: Just read the chapter with the Advance Guard and realized Elphias Doge was one of the people who helped move Harry to Grimmauld Place! Never noticed that before

[lux_94]

Originally Posted by ohsnapkid

Perhaps I'm reading way too much into this, but I found this passage extremely interesting (as Harry is discovering the Pensieve in DD's office).

Goblet of Fire, p. 583 in the U.S. hardcover version:



So many potential allusions to The Silver Doe, right?

First, the sword being associated with hopelessness and despair - at that point in DH, their progress had halted completely and the situation appeared very dire, similar to CoS where Harry also had no weapon to dispose of the threat at hand.

Silvery light (the patronus of the doe itself) shimmering and dancing (the ripples of the water and the overall feeling of benevolence associated with the doe). We could take it a bit further and connect glass case with water, too, if only in an aesthetic sense.

Lastly, 'within a black cabinet' could easily mean Snape, who famously had black hair, dressed in black, etc. 'Whose door had not been closed properly' = his story had not been fully elucidated to that point and there were innumerable questions about his loyalties and past.

Am I insane for interpreting this passage as such, or does anyone else see the hints?

I think you are right. Hints are here, I totally agree with you.

[potter2000]

Originally Posted by DA93

Wow, thats almost creepy. I started reading OotP last night and realized that Mafalda Hopkirk was the witch writing Harry's letter. So when i woke up today i went straight to my computer to write my new "discovery" in this thread and I see that you have just written the exact same thing

Edit: Just read the chapter with the Advance Guard and realized Elphias Doge was one of the people who helped move Harry to Grimmauld Place! Never noticed that before

I never noticed that! But i knew that Elphias Doge was metioned before the Deathly Hallows.

[jday129]

First post!

In PS/SS Harry, Hermoine, Ron and Draco receive a detention. They expect they will have to do lines. But Hagrid laughs at this idea and tells them they will be doing something useful. In OofP the depolorable Umbridge gives HP detention and what does he have to do? Lines! (albiet by a terrible and unusual quill)

[Kat_Suki]

to the forums, jday129!

Umbridge's lesson was meant to be detrimental to Harry and to any other student who she forced to do lines. Those lines definitely weren't useless, to Umbridge or to Harry. She was forcing her will on to him, trying to get him to bend to the Ministry. Harry, meanwhile, was exercising a battle of wills against her and the Ministry, which led to the founding of the DA and later to his standing up to Scrimgeour and the Ministry on multiple occasions.

Perhaps Hagrid said this because in his day, "lines" wasn't a normal punishment. After all, Filch was all for the renewing of the "old" ways...which involved hanging students in "chains".

[Cabbage_xx]

I only just realised, on my last reading of DH (and I've read it heaps of times) that Grindelwald is related to Bathilda Bagshot. o.O No idea how I missed that...

[Hes]

We are way past 1500 posts so I'm opening a new thread

Version 9