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Exact location of Durmstrang



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  #61  
Old August 7th, 2007, 4:52 am
Lankin  Male.gif Lankin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

The fact that Krum played quidditch for Bulgaria isn't proof that the school is situated there, since the school and the team aren't actually connected.

I'd have to agree that both Germany, Bulgaria and most other southern countries (like switzerland, though it's a very good suggestion) are kinda invalidated simply by the fact that Krum states that the school gets very little daylight in the winter, which is only possible if it's closer to the arctic circle than Scotland is. Which is kinda impossible for Germany, Switzerland and Bulgaria.

This, combined with the neccesity for huge swaths of uninhabitet lands, cold climate, mountains and lakes, put it somewhere in nothern russia, norway, icelandm, finland or sweden.

However, the names of the staff (and most of the students mentioned) sound Slavic and not the least bit scandinavian, nor norse for that matter (ruling out iceland, norway and sweden). So we're down to Finland and northern Russia.


Seeing as how a large chunk of Russia is actually within the borders of Europe, I see nothing wrong with assuming Durmstrang is located somewhere within it's borders. It fits everything we know about the general terrain and climate there, after all.

Since students from various countries can study there (Draco was almost sent there, remember?) Krums Bulgarian nationality doesn't exactly contradict this either.


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  #62  
Old August 7th, 2007, 8:05 am
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

I wonder how many people can still follow this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scato View Post

I would disagree. In German, v is either pronounce like f (Vogel = Fogel) or like w (Vase = Wase). My w sounds the same in German "Wort" and English "word", but my v sounds different in German "Vase" and English "vase".
Okay, but that's a different case. We have two sounds for the letter v, yes, of course But the phoneme [w] (as in German Wort) is always represented by a w. That's what I meant.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Scato View Post
Here you say that it's a misconception that Germans say v instead of w, which I agree with. That's what I said in my post. We don't say "vord" instead of "word", so we neither say "vald" instead of "wald", right?
We need to distingiush here between a German speaking German and a German speaking English. A German speaking German doesn't use the w-sound we've got in English word. A German speaking English, however, tends to use it rather a lot, as many Germans aren't even aware that it's very, not wery, and video, not wideo.



Quote:
And here you say that we say w instead of v, which I also agree with. I used the same example, with "video" pronounced "wideo" (and I even know people who say it "fideo" in German).
See above



Quote:
But then here you say that Germans do say v instead of w in the case of Grindelwald, which I don't agree with and which seems to contradict what you've said so far.
Again, it's a difference whether the German is talking English or German. If I read "Grindelwald" and assume it's German, I'd say it like grin+dell+vald.


Everyone sufficiently confused now?


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  #63  
Old August 7th, 2007, 9:05 am
Scato  Female.gif Scato is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldSeven View Post
Everyone sufficiently confused now?
I certainly am. I think I no longer know how to pronounce w in any language.

Anyway, I haven't even heard JKR say it, so maybe the transcription "Gridelvald" presents a different sound than what I'm thinkng of. And I can't hear you saying it and you can't hear me. So I don't think we will get any further with this. Let's just agree to be confused and leave it at that.



To come back on topic, I now also believe that Durmstrang is in the far north, possibly Russia. I must admit I never really thought about its location before. It was just "Krum is Bulgarian, ergo Durmstrang is Bulgarian", end of thought. But yes, thinking about it further, obviously Bulgarians don't sit in the dark most of winter, and you don't normally need heavy fir coats there either. And I think they have to wear these coats a great part of the year, otherwise they probably wouldn't be part of the school uniform. But as I said before, it's like trying to find Springfield. Durmstrang just doesn't seem to have a specific location.


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  #64  
Old August 7th, 2007, 9:48 am
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TheInvisibleF  Female.gif TheInvisibleF is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankin View Post
This, combined with the neccesity for huge swaths of uninhabitet lands, cold climate, mountains and lakes, put it somewhere in nothern russia, norway, icelandm, finland or sweden.

However, the names of the staff (and most of the students mentioned) sound Slavic and not the least bit scandinavian, nor norse for that matter (ruling out iceland, norway and sweden). So we're down to Finland and northern Russia.


Seeing as how a large chunk of Russia is actually within the borders of Europe, I see nothing wrong with assuming Durmstrang is located somewhere within it's borders. It fits everything we know about the general terrain and climate there, after all.

Since students from various countries can study there (Draco was almost sent there, remember?) Krums Bulgarian nationality doesn't exactly contradict this either.
I did say Finland before so now I know I'm not the only one thinking that. Yay for not being crazy. Here is a physical map of Finland (and bits of Sweden and Russia). I only show that picture because it has lots of lovely lakes. A holiday website I looked up says that Finland gets about six hours of daylight in winter (Four in Lapland) which would also work. Your Draco point is the best one for it being an International School.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldSeven View Post
I wonder how many people can still follow this.

Okay, but that's a different case. We have two sounds for the letter v, yes, of course But the phoneme [w] (as in German Wort) is always represented by a w. That's what I meant.

We need to distingiush here between a German speaking German and a German speaking English. A German speaking German doesn't use the w-sound we've got in English word. A German speaking English, however, tends to use it rather a lot, as many Germans aren't even aware that it's very, not wery, and video, not wideo.

See above

Again, it's a difference whether the German is talking English or German. If I read "Grindelwald" and assume it's German, I'd say it like grin+dell+vald.

Everyone sufficiently confused now?
Wow! I'm very proud of myself. I was able to follow most of that. Those four years of German didn't go unused.


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  #65  
Old August 7th, 2007, 2:36 pm
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lankin View Post
I'd have to agree that both Germany, Bulgaria and most other southern countries (like switzerland, though it's a very good suggestion) are kinda invalidated simply by the fact that Krum states that the school gets very little daylight in the winter, which is only possible if it's closer to the arctic circle than Scotland is. Which is kinda impossible for Germany, Switzerland and Bulgaria.
I had forgotten about that! Yes, that definitely rules out Bulgaria. Our shortest month is December and even then we get at least 7 hours of light a day.

The other thing is the language - Karkaroff communicates with his students in English (while Maxime uses French with them), so they don't belong to the same nation, which means the school is international.

I'm going to Finland in September by the way, I'm excited


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  #66  
Old August 7th, 2007, 3:09 pm
Lankin  Male.gif Lankin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

The problem with Finland is that it has very few mountains. It's more or less a country of forests and lakes, except in the very farthest north (which is very cold indeed).

So either the school is right at the northernmost top of Finland (where you're dangerously close to the arctic circle), or it's in the more mountainous neighbouring country Russia.

Quote:
But as I said before, it's like trying to find Springfield. Durmstrang just doesn't seem to have a specific location.
I'd have to disagree on that one. It seems to have a hidden location, but for all we know JK has a map with a pin in it denoting the exact place Durmstrang is. There's nothing so far which has made it an "impossible" location, after all. There are places in europe with little light in winter, cold climate, large natural areas, slavic people and mountainous terrain. These sorts of places DO exist.


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  #67  
Old August 7th, 2007, 4:54 pm
Jonny Boy  Male.gif Jonny Boy is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

From the descriptions of the school, I'd have to say it is located in North-western Russia. I believe it is also mentioned in the books that it is famous for an emphasis on Dark Arts. This could make it plausible for Grindelwald, being most likely of German origin, to have attended the school, if his parents wanted his education to follow the doctrine taught at Durmstrang.

Also it doesn't sound as though Krum's family was heavily into the Dark Arts, seeing as his grandfather was murdered by Grindelwald, although perhaps his parents were disciples of Grindelwald's for some reason and wanted his education to be oriented towards the Dark Arts. It is possible that Krum's family was from Bulgaria, but they moved to Russia before his schooling began, and he attended Durmstrang because it was the closest school to them, but he still would have been eligible to play for Bulgaria, being a citizen of that country. Or perhaps his family was just friends with the headmaster and they decided to send him there.


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  #68  
Old August 7th, 2007, 5:19 pm
Rink  Undisclosed.gif Rink is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Hmm... I liked Iceland for this... but for that to work, there'd need to be a large influx of a Russian and eastern European students/teachers. Which would be fine except for the distance between the two.

Looks like Russia is the best option.


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  #69  
Old August 7th, 2007, 5:52 pm
Lankin  Male.gif Lankin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

What large distance? Finland is smack dab right next to Russia. It used to be a russian duchy, before they broke loose. You can't really get any closer to the country unless you are the country. But I agree that the names of both the school and the attendees kinda lessens the chance of it being finnish drastically.

As for Krum, I fail to see why his parents must have been dark-acolytes for him to attend. It's supposedly one of the largest and most prestigious schools in europe, and they obviously cater to students from many different countries. So it would seem that even someone who dislikes the dark arts as much as Krum would have ample reasons to attend said school, despite him living in Bulgaria and the Scool being located further north.

Just as Mr. Potter lives in England, and the actual school lies much further north, in scotland.


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  #70  
Old August 7th, 2007, 6:11 pm
Kashman  Male.gif Kashman is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

I've always thought of it being located in Siberia with the wide plains and snow. Thereis no reason that Victor wouldn't go to a foreign school.


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  #71  
Old August 7th, 2007, 6:35 pm
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Boy View Post
From the descriptions of the school, I'd have to say it is located in North-western Russia. I believe it is also mentioned in the books that it is famous for an emphasis on Dark Arts. This could make it plausible for Grindelwald, being most likely of German origin, to have attended the school, if his parents wanted his education to follow the doctrine taught at Durmstrang.
And something that could also play into this is that Grindelwald attended school at a time when a lot of Eastern Europe was German anyway. Dumbledore defeated him in, what, 1945? After a few years of not opposing him? That would place their time at school sometime in the 1930s. Grindelwald might well have been from East Prussia or somewhere near, which is Poland today - close enough to Russia and Siberia, if we assume that Durmstrang is somewhere located there.


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  #72  
Old August 7th, 2007, 7:04 pm
Lankin  Male.gif Lankin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

In actuality, Dumbledore was born close to 1847, which would put the both of them in school closer to 1860. But your point is still relevant: The geographical details of europe was different back then.


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  #73  
Old August 7th, 2007, 7:39 pm
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Woops. O.O I thought the timelines were clser together there...


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  #74  
Old August 7th, 2007, 8:18 pm
Deswin  Undisclosed.gif Deswin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

I dont think that it is in Bulgaria just because Krum played Quidditch for them. Sports players in america usually dont even live in the city they play for. I think it is somewhere in Russia or eastern Europe.
Here's another theory: maybe Durmstrang is in Tunguska, Russia where in the early 1900's a supposed comet or asteroid crashed there and destroyed everything. Maybe Durmstrang was about to be discovered and they used the excuse of a natural disaster to hide their whereabouts from the muggles.


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  #75  
Old August 7th, 2007, 8:43 pm
Lankin  Male.gif Lankin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Good point indeed.

Though the explosion might also have been a magical mishap, of course.


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  #76  
Old August 7th, 2007, 8:45 pm
Deswin  Undisclosed.gif Deswin is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

That was another point i meant to make but forgot to mention, thanks for the assist!


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  #77  
Old August 7th, 2007, 8:46 pm
InsO  Undisclosed.gif InsO is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

so thumbs up for Russia then?! But why if for all its violent history with Germany have a name like that for its only magic school..doesn't make sence...Bg and Germany..ah that is another story they were allies in both World wars...and we now know there are many connections in the books to WWІІ


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  #78  
Old August 7th, 2007, 9:05 pm
GoldSeven  Female.gif GoldSeven is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deswin View Post
Here's another theory: maybe Durmstrang is in Tunguska, Russia where in the early 1900's a supposed comet or asteroid crashed there and destroyed everything. Maybe Durmstrang was about to be discovered and they used the excuse of a natural disaster to hide their whereabouts from the muggles.
Nice one! HP meets X-Files!

I'll be adopting that theory, I love it.


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  #79  
Old August 8th, 2007, 3:36 pm
InsO  Undisclosed.gif InsO is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldSeven View Post
Nice one! HP meets X-Files!

I'll be adopting that theory, I love it.
a little bit too much X files if you ask me


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  #80  
Old August 8th, 2007, 4:16 pm
Rink  Undisclosed.gif Rink is offline
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Re: Exact location of Durmstrang?

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Originally Posted by Lankin View Post
What large distance? Finland is smack dab right next to Russia.
Re-read my post. I said I liked ICELAND as the location for Durmstrang but there is the problem of the names.

But thanks for the geography lesson anyway.


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