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4 Founders/4 Archangels



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 12th, 2007, 1:50 am
Quicksilver  Female.gif Quicksilver is offline
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4 Founders/4 Archangels

Could the four founders be modeled on the archangels (the 4 that are in the Bible)?

Gryffindor : Michael (courage, chivalry, and boldness), that is to say, battle.
Hufflepuff : Gabriel (hardworking, loyal, and honest), that is to say, the messenger.
Ravenclaw : Raphael (intelligence, creativity, wit, and wisdom), that is to say, look at how the Tobit book is written and how Raphael is constantly giving clues as to who he is. (The book of Tobit is in the Deuterocanon- the Apocraphya in protestant Bibles)
Slytherin : Lucifer (ambition, cunning, resourcefulness, and pure blood heritage), or, more to say, Pride, and all Slytherins, whether they are before or after Riddle are only willing lend themselves to a situation if it will benefit or glorify them.

Originally Posted by adstrinity on CA Forums


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Last edited by Quicksilver; August 12th, 2007 at 4:13 am.
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  #2  
Old August 12th, 2007, 5:58 am
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

The name Lucifer is a translation of Helel ben Shahar. It refers to King Nebuchadnezzar, not an archangel or the Devil. Besides, there are more than four archangels in the Bible.

It's an interesting theory, but Rowling said her bases were the four elements.


  #3  
Old August 12th, 2007, 7:05 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Why do you compare it with the bible? why do you think it has anything to do with religon?


  #4  
Old August 12th, 2007, 3:22 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by LudwigVan View Post
Why do you compare it with the bible? why do you think it has anything to do with religon?
I think there are many Christian themes in the entire HP series. Looking for God in Harry Potter by John Granger gives some examples.

I guess I get a bit tired of my fellow Christians bashing the HP series as being satanic/ a dooway to the occult etc. so I like to point out aspects of Christianity woven throughout the series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyma View Post
The name Lucifer is a translation of Helel ben Shahar. It refers to King Nebuchadnezzar, not an archangel or the Devil. Besides, there are more than four archangels in the Bible.

It's an interesting theory, but Rowling said her bases were the four elements.
It is commonly held that Lucifer is another name for satan. There are only three named angels in the Bible. Satan is a fallen angel.

I know Rowling said her basis was the four elements, maybe I used the wrong phrasing. I just thought it was a cool application.


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Old August 12th, 2007, 4:49 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Why do you compare it with the bible? why do you think it has anything to do with religon?
there is many religious refrences in the series


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Old August 12th, 2007, 4:59 pm
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
It is commonly held that Lucifer is another name for satan.
But not where the Bible is concerned.

Quote:
There are only three named angels in the Bible. Satan is a fallen angel.
I don't know if by angels you mean angels specifically, or all kinds of celestial beings, but in either case there are more than three. Though I suppose this depends on your view of which books should be included in or excluded from the Bible.



Last edited by Onyma; August 12th, 2007 at 10:10 pm.
  #7  
Old August 12th, 2007, 6:08 pm
Quicksilver  Female.gif Quicksilver is offline
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

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Originally Posted by Onyma View Post
But not where the Bible is concerned.


I don't know if by angels you mean angels specifically, or all kinds of celestial beings, but in either case there are more than three. Though I suppose this depends on your view of which books should be included in or excluded from the Bible
Hmmm. I was talking specifically.

1. Gabriel - Dan 8:16-26; 9:20-27; Lk 1:11-20; 1:26-38
2. Raphael - Tob 5:4-12 especially 12:11-15
3. Michael - Jude 9; Dan 10:13, 21, 12:1; Rev 12:7

In Tob 11:15 it says, "one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." And I know of many verses that speak of the "host of Heaven" "Legions of Angels" but I don't know of any other individually named angels in the Bible.


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Old August 12th, 2007, 6:34 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

There is alot of religion in the books I think, so it could be


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  #9  
Old August 12th, 2007, 8:43 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Hmmm. I was talking specifically.

1. Gabriel - Dan 8:16-26; 9:20-27; Lk 1:11-20; 1:26-38
2. Raphael - Tob 5:4-12 especially 12:11-15
3. Michael - Jude 9; Dan 10:13, 21, 12:1; Rev 12:7

In Tob 11:15 it says, "one of the seven angels who stand ready and enter before the glory of the Lord." And I know of many verses that speak of the "host of Heaven" "Legions of Angels" but I don't know of any other individually named angels in the Bible.
Satan and Uriel are also named.


  #10  
Old August 12th, 2007, 9:43 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onyma View Post
Satan and Uriel are also named.
Satan means the adversary, and as I said before he is associated with the name Lucifer.

Can you give me the book chapter and verse for Uriel?


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  #11  
Old August 12th, 2007, 10:04 pm
Onyma  Undisclosed.gif Onyma is offline
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
Satan means the adversary, and as I said before he is associated with the name Lucifer.
Again, not where the Bible is concerned. In terms of the Old Testament, Satan is the accuser for God. In the New Testament, he is the Devil. Lucifer as the Devil is a modern concept. The name is originally a name of a number of pagan deities.

Quote:
Can you give me the book chapter and verse for Uriel?
I Enoch, all over the place. He is specifically named as an angel in Chapter 20.


  #12  
Old August 12th, 2007, 10:23 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

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Originally Posted by Onyma View Post
I Enoch, all over the place. He is specifically named as an angel in Chapter 20.
My Bible does not contain 1 Enoch (or any Enoch for that matter) that would explain why I don't find Uriel in my Bible.

Thanks for the reference.


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  #13  
Old August 12th, 2007, 10:41 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quicksilver View Post
My Bible does not contain 1 Enoch (or any Enoch for that matter) that would explain why I don't find Uriel in my Bible.

Thanks for the reference.
No problem. Enoch is a part of the Apocrypha, so not all Bibles will have it. The text is available online, in any case.


  #14  
Old August 13th, 2007, 3:15 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

that is a very interesting observation. I thought of this myself


  #15  
Old August 13th, 2007, 5:05 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

There are Christian allegories in the book, i can't pretend there aren't, but it's not the main theme of the book, it's not based on that. You just think that because you have something to compare it to (i.e the bible). But for those who are not Christians, find the allegories in the book, but does not stop to think about it as if Harry Potter was another bible story


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Old August 13th, 2007, 5:20 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

I am very interested in someone explaining to me why having characters based on another work's characters must mean that the entire work is based on the other work. This thread is discussing one possible allusion, not the theme of the entire heptalogy.


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Old August 17th, 2007, 4:50 pm
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Quote:
There are Christian allegories in the book, i can't pretend there aren't, but it's not the main theme of the book, it's not based on that. You just think that because you have something to compare it to (i.e the bible). But for those who are not Christians, find the allegories in the book, but does not stop to think about it as if Harry Potter was another bible story
Couldn't put it better myself. There are a few religous themes in the book (No deniance there). But the story of Harry Potter has whatsoever nothing to do with religon. I also really doubt that the four founders of Hogwarts has anything to do with the archangels of the bible.


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  #18  
Old August 18th, 2007, 3:36 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

While I like your theory, I really doubt these books have anything to do with religion. If they did, we wouldn't have radical religious groups protesting and saying that Harry Potter corrupts the youth and makes them believe in witchcraft.


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Old August 31st, 2007, 8:54 am
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Re: 4 Founders/4 Archangels

Yeah, it seems to fit, if you ask me. Like Lucifer, pride was Salazar's downfall. He was proud of his pure-blood heritage, proud of his abilities and talents, and looked down on Muggle-borns. It was pride that drove Lucifer out of Heaven, and Salazar out of Hogwarts.

Michael, Rapheal and Gabriel, the three archangels faithful to God, protect us from evil, like how the three remaining Hogwarts founders ran the school. And Michael and Lucifer's relationship really matches Godric and Salazar's. Two best friends, fight, break ties with one another...y'know? Yeah, it fits, really fits, but I'm not saying Harry Potter is a Christian literary piece though...


 
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