UK Politics

[CakeorDeath]

Boris Johnson for London? Yay or nay?
ABSOLUTLEY YES!!
Who could say no?

[ginger1]

" A gaping black hole in Mr Osborne's sums". That was Labour's comment today on the extraordinary 3.5 billion cost of the conservatives proposed tax "carrots". They intend to increase the stamp duty threshold for first time buyers, and get rid of inheritance tax on estates valued below £1 million.

Well it raised a cheer at the conference - but we live in the real world here - surely (well OK, IMO - and I don't mean to be rude) - only the knowledge that they will not have to deliver these promises can have prompted the Conservatives to make such a flamboyant gesture.

[UAM]

It depends which sums you look at how much it will cost. Labour are obviously going to go with the highest estimate whilst the Tories will go with the lowest, or one they think they can pull off without too much comment.

The Tories are also wanting to remove stamp duty for first time buyers (a good thing, although it would be better if the properties were just cheaper, but that won't be happening any time soon) and removing inheritence tax on anything under £1m. This is also a good thing, but house prices are high and so there'll still be a few people getting hit when they aren't millionnaires.

Plus, what does everyone think of the idea of raising the age you can purchase alcohol to 21? They have just raised the age you can purchase cigarettes to 18, not that it will do any good.

[Overdose]

I disagree with it. Raising the age to 21 will increase binge drinking not decrease it. It's just a bad solution to what is a much more culturally orientated problem.

[UAM]

Originally Posted by Overdose

I disagree with it. Raising the age to 21 will increase binge drinking not decrease it. It's just a bad solution to what is a much more culturally orientated problem.

It maybe not increase binge drinking but it will just move the problem along a few years. For the majority of people when they turn 18 they go out and get drunk. If it goes up to 21, the exact same thing will happen, but the people will be 21 and not 18.

It also sort of criminalises alcohol and makes it a "forbidden fruit". Alcohol sponsors are no longer allowed to be shown on childrens' sports tops. What is the point in this? They still see the sponsor on the adult tops and, more importantly, their favourite player's top. The vast majority of kids just want to be like their favourite player, they don't care about who sponsors the team.

I fail to understand the logic of how you can have sex and get married at 16 (14 with parental consent?), but can't drink or smoke until you are 18.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by CakeorDeath

Boris Johnson for London? Yay or nay?
ABSOLUTLEY YES!!
Who could say no?

Nay. Although i find Boris amusing, i don't think he could handle running London. But it should be good to see Boris vs Red Ken!

Originally Posted by UAM

It depends which sums you look at how much it will cost. Labour are obviously going to go with the highest estimate whilst the Tories will go with the lowest, or one they think they can pull off without too much comment.

The Tories are also wanting to remove stamp duty for first time buyers (a good thing, although it would be better if the properties were just cheaper, but that won't be happening any time soon) and removing inheritence tax on anything under £1m. This is also a good thing, but house prices are high and so there'll still be a few people getting hit when they aren't millionnaires.

Plus, what does everyone think of the idea of raising the age you can purchase alcohol to 21? They have just raised the age you can purchase cigarettes to 18, not that it will do any good.

I'd be very wary of tax cut promises from the Tories. Election fever is in the air. David Cameron would promise the moon to people if he thought he'd win votes. The figures just don't stack up. And to be frank, it would take a few years for Mr Cameron to reform the benefits system (£36.2 billion a year is shelled out) that will save money that will then fund one or two of his tax cuts (so it would probably mean any tax cuts would only arrive close to another Election). Removing stamp duty is all well and good for first time buyers, but not for people who are moving etc As for IT, some people will become millonares with their property deals (once the housing market crashes and then picks up again). So really it's another grab the headlines, worry about the details later.

It won't make much difference. Teenagers will rebel, and they usually do it with underage drinking and smoking. If you want to tackle binge drinking you really have to start with kids in schools from a young age. And increase the prices of Alcohol to make binge drinking prohibitively expensive.

To be honest we have been here before with Binge drinking. You only have to look up the temperance movement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempera...United_Kingdom
and other historical factors like Government intervention and so on.

[Chris]

You guys in the UK are having a 21 vs. 18 drinking age debate? The US drinking age is 21, but it wasn't too long ago that it was 18, so i'm sure there's some interesting stuff out there about the effects of changing the drinking age. I'm too lazy to look it up at the moment, though

[Overdose]

And increase the prices of Alcohol to make binge drinking prohibitively expensive.

Surely that would simply create a huge amount of alcohol trafficking from Europe. To get to France for me is a 3 hour round trip and a large hike in the price of booze would sorely tempt many to simply smuggle crates in through the channel tunnel (which is extremely easy to do).

I'm wary of the Tory promises. I'm all for cutting Stamp Duty and Inheritance Tax but again this lurch back towards "One Nation" style conservatism just doesn't sit right with me. Despite Cameron's bluster I still see no real alternative from the Tories on any front (social, economic etc) despite being an economic rightie.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Overdose

Surely that would simply create a huge amount of alcohol trafficking from Europe. To get to France for me is a 3 hour round trip and a large hike in the price of booze would sorely tempt many to simply smuggle crates in through the channel tunnel (which is extremely easy to do).

I'm wary of the Tory promises. I'm all for cutting Stamp Duty and Inheritance Tax but again this lurch back towards "One Nation" style conservatism just doesn't sit right with me. Despite Cameron's bluster I still see no real alternative from the Tories on any front (social, economic etc) despite being an economic rightie.

That is VAT fraud. The Government would pick up on that method and eventually find means of stopping it. The Consverative party haven't really changed that much. The messages have changed but not the nature of the party. That's what makes me distrustful of the Tory party, they haven't changed their spots, just dressed themselves up to look different.
David Cameron did make a great speech today, however i am unconvinced that the Tory party as a whole wants to follow in Cameron's direction.
Having said that David Cameron wrote the Tories last election manifesto, and look how that one turned out.

[CakeorDeath]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Nay. Although i find Boris amusing, i don't think he could handle running London. But it should be good to see Boris vs Red Ken!

I know he may seem thick but read this link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nboris227.xml

Plus I don't like red Ken. And it is not because of the congestion charge

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by CakeorDeath

I know he may seem thick but read this link
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../nboris227.xml

Plus I don't like red Ken. And it is not because of the congestion charge

Lurking under Boris Johnson's personality is a keen intellect. The idiot routine is just a way of deflecting attention from his gaffs i.e. his comments about Liverpool that caused a storm a while back.
Though his intellect is usually distracted by other things that often appear as headlines in the Sunday tabloids.

[Wab]

Originally Posted by CakeorDeath

Who could say no?

Anyone interested in human rights in general and the rights of the disabled in particular as he has promised to scrap the eminently accessible bendy-buses and replace them not with modern double-deckers (which can be retro-fited with lifts and ramps) but Routemasters which (besides being clapped out) aren't capable of modification.

[Overdose]

So anyway as predicted by a fair few people Brown has not called an election. Does anyone think this is actually because he was scared by the Conservative conference? In all honesty I don't think he was going to call an election anyway. And Cameron's speech, whilst good enough seemed only to be more of the same.

But then again until he scraps his green taxes and everything for everyone attitude I'll be biased against Cameron.

[UAM]

Once again Labour are stealing the Tory policies. Labour saw that those policies were the ones that caused the best feeling in the electorate and so would try to put them through, and since they're Tory policies to begin with they aren't really going to oppose them.

Alex Salmond is also (again) trying to causes rifts between Scotland and Westminster and spin it all his way in order to help his independence case. He's saying Scotland is getting short-changed, when in fact they're not and spending is still increasing. Donald Dewer did a not too bad job with the relatively little amount he was given to work with.

[CakeorDeath]

Originally Posted by Overdose

But then again until he scraps his green taxes and everything for everyone attitude I'll be biased against Cameron.

What have you got against green taxes?

[Overdose]

Originally Posted by CakeorDeath

What have you got against green taxes?

They will do next to nothing for the environment, will artifically drive up prices and harm the market and will constitute an increased tax burden, not a decreased burden as the conservatives have promised. So called Green Taxes are simply a political term to be thrown around to create the illusion of an environmentally friendly government, but in reality will do little to help at all.

In other news despite my anti-Tory sentiment at the moment, I hope that Labour's moving in onto Tory ground doesn't actually have their desired affect of taking a few more notches out of the Conservatives. Labour's current schemes are a clear attempt at political undermining by doing slightly more moderate versions of the things they have spent the last few months criticising.

[CakeorDeath]

Originally Posted by Overdose

They will do next to nothing for the environment, will artifically drive up prices and harm the market and will constitute an increased tax burden, not a decreased burden as the conservatives have promised. So called Green Taxes are simply a political term to be thrown around to create the illusion of an environmentally friendly government, but in reality will do little to help at all.

I'm sorry but I still don't get how they won't help the enviroment. Could you explain it to me?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Overdose

So anyway as predicted by a fair few people Brown has not called an election. Does anyone think this is actually because he was scared by the Conservative conference? In all honesty I don't think he was going to call an election anyway. And Cameron's speech, whilst good enough seemed only to be more of the same.

But then again until he scraps his green taxes and everything for everyone attitude I'll be biased against Cameron.

If he'd wanted to call an election, he would have done so before the Conserative party conference (his mistake was not squashing the election talk earlier). David Cameron has probably given his best speech for nothing. Give Brown a few weeks and he'll probably haul labour back up in the polls.


The trouble i can see for Cameron is that he'll think he's got Labour on the ropes, and Brown may well come out of no where with his clunking fist.
Though i still expect we'll end up with a hung parliament, which is no bad thing as it'll force at least two of the parties to work together.

[ginger1]

So now (with the exit of the liberal leader - did he jump or was he pushed?) we have yet another ex party leader. They are getting a bit thin on the ground.

OK, a question. Can you suggest your three ideal (whether they are up for it or not) party leaders.

Well, in these totally dire murky times, we have to have a bit of light relief ...

[Mundungus Fletc]

OK, a question. Can you suggest your three ideal (whether they are up for it or not) party leaders.

As a life long Labour supporter I'd suggest Hague, Duncan Smith or Howard for the Tories Though I think Cameron is going to find it difficult in the long run.