Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

[crrush115]

I've always subscribed to the Rose/Scorpius idea. There is the seemingly deliberate foreshadowing in the DH epilouge. Besides that, the picture of Ron's face when he realizes he will be related to the Malfoys (even by marriage) makes me giggle!

[xoxhpxox]

i don't understand why this pairing is brought up..? there wasn't any indication in the book. is this just fan speculation wanting them do be together? in which case i think it'd be sweet for Harry and Draco to over their hatred for each other which i think they might've done based on the fact that Harry saved his life and his mother pronounced Harry was dead after he told her that Draco was safe (i always found this sooo sweet!)

but yeah that'd be a pretty random couple... who did draco even marry? they didn't say did they? i hope it wasn't pansy ahahahaha

Originally Posted by cardinalguy

By befriending Albus? It worked for Harry.

HAHAHA this made me laugh! (someone asked how scorpious and lily could meet)

not to sound ignorant, i'm new here, but what's a shipper?

and who names their kid scorpius?

[cardinalguy]

Originally Posted by xoxhpxox

i don't understand why this pairing is brought up..? there wasn't any indication in the book. is this just fan speculation wanting them do be together? in which case i think it'd be sweet for Harry and Draco to over their hatred for each other which i think they might've done based on the fact that Harry saved his life and his mother pronounced Harry was dead after he told her that Draco was safe (i always found this sooo sweet!)

Ron telling Rose not to get too friendly with Scorpius came off as tempting fate to a large portion of the fandom.

but yeah that'd be a pretty random couple... who did draco even marry? they didn't say did they? i hope it wasn't pansy ahahahaha

JKR said it was Astoria Greengrass, whose older sister Daphne was in Harry's year.

not to sound ignorant, i'm new here, but what's a shipper?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Shipping

[RosieWildsmith]

Originally Posted by xoxhpxox

and who names their kid scorpius?

Who names their kid Draco, Sirius, Bellatrix, Xenophilius, Albus, Severus...and a million other examples? I think it's pretty well established throughout the series that wizarding naming conventions are a lot different to Muggle ones.

Maybe it's just me but I just can't see the barriers breaking down that quickly and completely for a Weasley and a Malfoy to marry like that. I think people tend to underestimate how families like the Malfoys felt about "Mudbloods" and "blood traitors." Rose would be, in grandpa (Lucius) Malfoy's view, a blood traitor AND a mudblood (given that Hermione is her mum and Hermione was Muggle-born. I'm sure I read an interview with JKR where she likened the pureblood supremacists' views to Nazi eugenics, so it goes back generations and generations - if you had ANY Muggle blood you would be seen as a Mudblood by families like the Malfoys and the Blacks.)

And people underestimate how much people like the Malfoys hated "Mudbloods." In line with the Nazi eugenics comparison, families like the Malfoys saw "Mudbloods" as almost subhuman. Certainly in no way "equal" to themselves. They saw them as fundamentally unclean and worthless. It really was a horrible, racist viewpoint and it's my view that some fans tend to minimise this aspect of the WW. We see that Draco has inherited some of his father's attitude by his attitude to Hermione and his use of the word "Mudblood." Why on EARTH would he then turn around and go "Yeah, my son can marry a Mudblood, no problem"? It doesn't make sense to me

[rosieechan]

Originally Posted by RosieWildsmith

Why on EARTH would he then turn around and go "Yeah, my son can marry a Mudblood, no problem"? It doesn't make sense to me

Because it's Scorpius' choice, not his father's?
Because the Slytherin house has become diluted?
Because who knows, even Draco could have a heart?

[RosieWildsmith]

I think Scorpius' choice would still have been influenced by his families values. To my mind it is ludicrous to suggest that decades and decades of ethical conditioning would just be thrown out of the window. And in any case, Scorpius might have cared about his family disowning him...I know I would...

I'm not saying Draco doesn't have a heart. I'm saying that generations of brainwashing can be tricky to overcome.

[rosieechan]

Originally Posted by RosieWildsmith

I think Scorpius' choice would still have been influenced by his families values. To my mind it is ludicrous to suggest that decades and decades of ethical conditioning would just be thrown out of the window. And in any case, Scorpius might have cared about his family disowning him...I know I would...

I'm not saying Draco doesn't have a heart. I'm saying that generations of brainwashing can be tricky to overcome.

/sigh

I guess we'll never know for sure. We may only guess.

I mean, I'm pretty sure JKR wouldn't write something like "Grandpa would never forgive you if you married a pureblood" without it meaning SOMETHING. But I dunno. I understand your reasoning, too.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by RosieWildsmith

I think Scorpius' choice would still have been influenced by his families values. To my mind it is ludicrous to suggest that decades and decades of ethical conditioning would just be thrown out of the window. And in any case, Scorpius might have cared about his family disowning him...I know I would...

I'm not saying Draco doesn't have a heart. I'm saying that generations of brainwashing can be tricky to overcome.

While I think this ship could happen, if Scorpius somehow completely lacked all of Draco's prejudices, I can see only two ways it could happen:

a)If Scorpius is in no way prejudiced against Muggleborns or Muggles. This would depend on Asteria being a far better person than Draco, and letting him know that her child won't be raised a bigot.

OR

b)If Rose has serious emotional issues and/or something against her parents.

[lord_moldywort]

This match up seems too perfect. There would have to be some serious buildup and some unexpected twists in the plot before they end up together for this to be interesting.

[SopophorousBean]

Before I entered the Harry Potter fandom I was pretty naive to any other ships other than the ones set in stone in the books, and it took me by surprise when I joined up here that Rose/Scorpius was such a popular ship, it just hadn't occured to me at all. I can see why people pick up on it though I don't personally see it happening, I just think that the nod between Draco and Harry was as much of a conclusion to their story as we were going to get, they weren't friends, they weren't enemies, and there wasn't any more to it, and I believe that extended to their families. I can see the characters interacting though, I think Rose would be keen to stick up for anyone, say if her cousins were to tease Scorpius. And I can see the reverse happening too, Scorpius being reluctant to tease either Rose or any of the Potter kids. But that's as far as I see it, in my personal opinion It's open to a lot of interpretation though, you get so little contact between them in the books that I think it's easy to look into it more and ponder what could happen. So I'm not against the ship in anyway

[FwooperFeathers]

Well, technically the Weasleys ARE one of the Black family remnants, as Cedrella Black married Septimus Weasley and they had Arthur. So I guess it might make since. However, Rose Malfoy sounds EXTREMELY creepy.

[NerdExplosion]

Originally Posted by birdi86

Asteria Greengrass: An important wild card.

This is very true. This ship largely depends upon Rose and Scorpius' personalities. The majority of us seem to find it safe to assume that Ron and Hermione will have brought their children up to display the traits most valued by the Weasley's such as, bravery and loyalty. I find this to be highly likely, although we can't be certain, it is also possible that Rose feels alienated by her families fame and begins to resent the family she doesn't feel she can live up to, pushing her into the waiting arms of a certain Mr Malfoy

On the other hand, we really can't say what kind of a childhood Scorpius has experienced. Yes, we know that in his youth Draco was a racist and believed himself to be above Rose's parents. However, he was never seemed to be as immersed in the Death Eater lifestyle as most pureblood supremacists IMO. He couldn't kill DD and even when he knew it was Harry in Malfoy Manor (he must've known, Ron and Hermione were stood right there!) he didn't hand Harry over. I think its entirely possible that Draco distanced himself from all those individuals who indoctrinated him with pureblood ideologies when he was young and brought his son up in an unbiased environment. Furthermore, if he did distance himself from those people and marry Astoria, who may have never held with the racist ideas then it is entirely plausible that Scorpius is a perfectly lovely young man.

Rose and Scorpius may even bond over the fact that they are both living under the reputations of their parents, which is a situation that not all Hogwarts students are going to be living in.

All in all I think the plausibility of the ship depends on what you belive Scorpius and Rose's personalities to be. If you expect Rose to be a mini Ron/Hermione and Scorpius to be a mini Draco then you will most likely not see this as a very likely pairing (unless you're a Dramione shipper), but you must remember JK has said Scorpius will be "an improvement" on his father although it is up to the individual to decide how much of an improvement this may be.

Personally, I like the pairing and I can see how it could work, but I can understand the viewpoint of those that see it differently from me.

[Ellen]

Just to throw in wild guesses about personalities -

Rowling has shown a strong tendency towards symbolic names, sometimes ones that are amazingly helpful.

So, for example, Regulus Black's name suggested the regulus in alchemy - the "finer" or better part in one of the separation stages. This suggested that, despite Sirius' brief, negative summary of him, Regulus would have been a good person and even, by some measurements, the better of the two brothers (this suggestion made little or no sense before book 7). Regulus is also the name of the star in Leo also known as the Heart of the Lion, suggesting courage and an alignment with Harry's side. The name also means prince or little king and is the Latin version of the Greek derived "basilisk." This also suggests some possible references to The Little Prince, but that seems iffier.

So, it may be worthwhile to look at just the names and see what they suggest.

Rose - Although roses have been used in a variety of ways over the ages, the obvious one these days is love.

Rose's name is also closer to her father's, Ron (just as her brother, Hugo, has a name closer to their mother's). This suggests her personality may be somewhat more like Ron's.

Since I mentioned The Little Prince, I will also toss in a mention of the rose in that story which is much beloved by the title character.

OK, so not much or roses. We have a suggestion of love playing a major part in the character's story as well as hints of a personality more driven by emotions than by logic. By the way, if you look up the flower names in the series in books on the language of flowers (it was a 19th century thing), you will find nearly all the characters are spot on for their names (Petunia, for example, means resentment).

Scorpio Hyperion - Let's start with the obvious. Scorpio is a zodiac sign. Scorpios are known for their intellect and for their passion. Falling in love is supposed to be a big deal to them, and they can be expected to go to great lengths to win the person they fall for.

Like many constellations, Scorpio also has a myth behind it. There are two basic stories. There was a great hunter, Orion (note that this is a significant name in the Black family tree). The sun god, Apollo, had reason to believe Orion represented a threat to the chastity of his sister, Diana/Artemis, goddess of the moon and the hunt (some stories seem to suggest Orion intended assault, some suggest Apollo feared his sister might simply fall for the guy). So, he created a scorpion and sent it to kill Orion. The other story says Diana herself sent the scorpion after Orion. Although a hunter herself, she was also the protector of wild animals. When Orion, in his pride, swore to kill all of them, she took steps.

This second version seems to fit symbolically with a good Scorpio Malfoy. Orion, a past head of the Black family, strongly supported the Pureblood philosophy. Scorpio, then, could represent a person in opposition to it.

Hyperion was one of the Titans. Those of you who only know them from the Percy Jackson stories may be surprised to learn Hyperion was actually one of the Titans who didn't side with Cronus. Some later traditions associate him with keen observation and awareness of what's going on (side effect of being a god of light [by the way - a god of light, not a supporter of the dark arts :-) ]).

So, Hyperion was a product of an older, eviler regime who did not support it but became a supporter of a new and better regime when it came along.

But, Hyperion was also associated with the sun. As I understand it, sun scorpios are especially noted for using their powerful intellects for observing and analyzing. While highly intuitive, they judge by what is rather than by their prejudices.

Scorpios can also represent death of the old and rebirth.

Also, the scorpion is strongly associated with the basilisk. While, on one level (the same one with the Chamber of Secrets), this would seem to be a Bad Thing, it also connects him to Regulus Black (whose name was a Latin form of the Greek Basilisk).

Also, Regulus/Basilisk means little king or prince. Anyone who's read The Little Prince knows how he felt about the rose (weak, but I had to say it).

Conclusions:

If - and it's a big if - we are to judge Scorpio by his name, the indications put him in opposition to Pureblood prejudices (he opposes what Orion represents. He also is a keener observer with great understanding who doesn't let past assumptions trip him up, just the kind of person you would expect to be able to winnow truth from prejudice).

He would also be extremely intelligent (a major point for winning Hermione over).

If his zodiac sign is an indication, he also is likely to have an important storyline involving being in love.

The same zodiac sign connects him to the death of the old and the rebirth of the new in a positive, healing sort of way.

His middle name, Hyperion, also connects him with Harry (born under the sun sign, Leo, and strongly associated with the Solar King of alchemy).

Rose, less symbolically burdened, seems equally associated with a romance storyline and to be more likely influenced by her hear than her head as well as having a (weak) symbolism connection with the rose in The Little Prince while Scorpio has a (even weaker) connection to the Little Prince.

Eh, it's not the strongest argument, but it seems worth throwing out there.

[ToBeOrNotToBe]

Originally Posted by Ellen

Just to throw in wild guesses about personalities -

Rowling has shown a strong tendency towards symbolic names, sometimes ones that are amazingly helpful.

So, for example, Regulus Black's name suggested the regulus in alchemy - the "finer" or better part in one of the separation stages. This suggested that, despite Sirius' brief, negative summary of him, Regulus would have been a good person and even, by some measurements, the better of the two brothers (this suggestion made little or no sense before book 7). Regulus is also the name of the star in Leo also known as the Heart of the Lion, suggesting courage and an alignment with Harry's side. The name also means prince or little king and is the Latin version of the Greek derived "basilisk." This also suggests some possible references to The Little Prince, but that seems iffier.

So, it may be worthwhile to look at just the names and see what they suggest.

Rose - Although roses have been used in a variety of ways over the ages, the obvious one these days is love.

Rose's name is also closer to her father's, Ron (just as her brother, Hugo, has a name closer to their mother's). This suggests her personality may be somewhat more like Ron's.

Since I mentioned The Little Prince, I will also toss in a mention of the rose in that story which is much beloved by the title character.

OK, so not much or roses. We have a suggestion of love playing a major part in the character's story as well as hints of a personality more driven by emotions than by logic. By the way, if you look up the flower names in the series in books on the language of flowers (it was a 19th century thing), you will find nearly all the characters are spot on for their names (Petunia, for example, means resentment).

Scorpio Hyperion - Let's start with the obvious. Scorpio is a zodiac sign. Scorpios are known for their intellect and for their passion. Falling in love is supposed to be a big deal to them, and they can be expected to go to great lengths to win the person they fall for.

Like many constellations, Scorpio also has a myth behind it. There are two basic stories. There was a great hunter, Orion (note that this is a significant name in the Black family tree). The sun god, Apollo, had reason to believe Orion represented a threat to the chastity of his sister, Diana/Artemis, goddess of the moon and the hunt (some stories seem to suggest Orion intended assault, some suggest Apollo feared his sister might simply fall for the guy). So, he created a scorpion and sent it to kill Orion. The other story says Diana herself sent the scorpion after Orion. Although a hunter herself, she was also the protector of wild animals. When Orion, in his pride, swore to kill all of them, she took steps.

This second version seems to fit symbolically with a good Scorpio Malfoy. Orion, a past head of the Black family, strongly supported the Pureblood philosophy. Scorpio, then, could represent a person in opposition to it.

Hyperion was one of the Titans. Those of you who only know them from the Percy Jackson stories may be surprised to learn Hyperion was actually one of the Titans who didn't side with Cronus. Some later traditions associate him with keen observation and awareness of what's going on (side effect of being a god of light [by the way - a god of light, not a supporter of the dark arts :-) ]).

So, Hyperion was a product of an older, eviler regime who did not support it but became a supporter of a new and better regime when it came along.

But, Hyperion was also associated with the sun. As I understand it, sun scorpios are especially noted for using their powerful intellects for observing and analyzing. While highly intuitive, they judge by what is rather than by their prejudices.

Scorpios can also represent death of the old and rebirth.

Also, the scorpion is strongly associated with the basilisk. While, on one level (the same one with the Chamber of Secrets), this would seem to be a Bad Thing, it also connects him to Regulus Black (whose name was a Latin form of the Greek Basilisk).

Also, Regulus/Basilisk means little king or prince. Anyone who's read The Little Prince knows how he felt about the rose (weak, but I had to say it).

Conclusions:

If - and it's a big if - we are to judge Scorpio by his name, the indications put him in opposition to Pureblood prejudices (he opposes what Orion represents. He also is a keener observer with great understanding who doesn't let past assumptions trip him up, just the kind of person you would expect to be able to winnow truth from prejudice).

He would also be extremely intelligent (a major point for winning Hermione over).

If his zodiac sign is an indication, he also is likely to have an important storyline involving being in love.

The same zodiac sign connects him to the death of the old and the rebirth of the new in a positive, healing sort of way.

His middle name, Hyperion, also connects him with Harry (born under the sun sign, Leo, and strongly associated with the Solar King of alchemy).

Rose, less symbolically burdened, seems equally associated with a romance storyline and to be more likely influenced by her hear than her head as well as having a (weak) symbolism connection with the rose in The Little Prince while Scorpio has a (even weaker) connection to the Little Prince.

Eh, it's not the strongest argument, but it seems worth throwing out there.

and surprisingly, when I was doing character evaluations, I came up with pretty much the same thing for Regulus and Scorpius. For Rose, though, I thought it meant that she's a true romantic at heart but a toughie out. I thought her name connotations suggested her beauty and capabilities (The rose flower was a symbol of chivalry and wisdom in the middle ages).

[birdi86]

This would depend on Asteria being a far better person than Draco, and letting him know that her child won't be raised a bigot.

It's certainly a possibility! In an interview with Pottercast, when asked if Draco married Pansy, JKR vehemently replied no, he did not, because she loathed Pansy for being a bully and called her the anti-Hermione.

Now, I'm not saying that Asteria is the pureblood!Hermione but, given JKR's response, I can't see her marrying Draco off to Pansy 2.0.

As for Rose/Scorpius, the more I think about, the more convinced I am that if JKR ever does tell us more (whether in a book or in Pottermore) there will be a connection between the two of them. The question is will it be a Ron/Hermione type of thing where they meet on the train, become best friends (with Al rounding out the new little trio) and eventually falling in love, will they be friends like Snape and Lily but eventually drifting apart should Scorpius reveal he does harbor his family's prejudices or will they be like Harry and Hermione, good friends who have some thinking there is something romantic between them but are really just friends and nothing more?

I think JKR put a connection between them for a reason but what that could mean, no one knows.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by Ellen

He would also be extremely intelligent (a major point for winning Hermione over).

I think that Hermione, even during her Hogwarts years, had long since moved on from her initial idea that top grades and important positions make someone a better person. I think she would be far more concerned with whether or not Scorpius was a racist than whether or not he was top of all his classes. Hermione chose Ron - she felt that a good heart was more important than grades. IMO, she would take the same attitude towards her childrens' partners - she would want them to be with a good person, with morals and values and lacking in prejudices. She would probably be impressed if Scorpius was intelligent, but only if he was also a good person.

Originally Posted by birdi86

It's certainly a possibility! In an interview with Pottercast, when asked if Draco married Pansy, JKR vehemently replied no, he did not, because she loathed Pansy for being a bully and called her the anti-Hermione.

Now, I'm not saying that Asteria is the pureblood!Hermione but, given JKR's response, I can't see her marrying Draco off to Pansy 2.0.

I imagine Asteria as having more self-respect and self-control than Pansy. I think she'd be less likely to make a scene than Pansy. I also think Draco would have wanted to develop a relationship with someone completely unrelated to the Death Eaters and the prejudices involved, because his family would have been in a precarious position. It would not have been smart for him to have a relationship with the person who wanted to turn Harry Potter over to Voldemort.

As for Rose/Scorpius, the more I think about, the more convinced I am that if JKR ever does tell us more (whether in a book or in Pottermore) there will be a connection between the two of them. The question is will it be a Ron/Hermione type of thing where they meet on the train, become best friends (with Al rounding out the new little trio) and eventually falling in love, will they be friends like Snape and Lily but eventually drifting apart should Scorpius reveal he does harbor his family's prejudices or will they be like Harry and Hermione, good friends who have some thinking there is something romantic between them but are really just friends and nothing more?

Or, perhaps they will slowly get to know each other over their years at Hogwarts. I think it's possible they will have a better relationship than Ron and Hermione had with Draco.

I think JKR put a connection between them for a reason but what that could mean, no one knows.

Part of me wonders if it was a nod to the Hermione/Draco shippers. That one was never going to happen in canon, because Hermione had self-respect and common sense and Draco had a huge amount of bigotry. But, it leaves the possibility that Hermione's child and Draco's child will be on better terms than their respective parents were.

[birdi86]

Part of me wonders if it was a nod to the Hermione/Draco shippers.

A lot of people have mentioned this but I don't think so.

I mean if she wanted to put a nod to non-canon shippers, it would have made more sense to have that scene between Albus Severus and Harry regarding Scorpius since the Harry/Draco fanbase is huge (much bigger than Draco/Hermione), is known by the stars (Tom Felton and Dan Radcliffe have both mentioned it several times) and would have made an interesting parallel to Dumbledore/Grindelwald.

[Nielo]

Originally Posted by rosieechan

/sigh

I guess we'll never know for sure. We may only guess.

I mean, I'm pretty sure JKR wouldn't write something like "Grandpa would never forgive you if you married a pureblood" without it meaning SOMETHING. But I dunno. I understand your reasoning, too.

I don't know, I always thought it was just Ron being funny, I never read anything else into it.

Originally Posted by lord_moldywort

This match up seems too perfect. There would have to be some serious buildup and some unexpected twists in the plot before they end up together for this to be interesting.

I agree with this.
Personally I feel - aside from the fact that thinking about this creeps me out, because we only see Scorpius & Rose as [little] kids - that it would be keeping it all in the family a little too much. There are other kids at Hogwarts besides the trio's and Draco's and I just don't see why they would end up together.
Would it be interesting to see all the kids interact with each other? Sure, I'd be very interested in that, I do wonder how they all will turn out, what houses they will be in. But do I think Scorpius and Rose will end up together? No, if only for the reason that it would be much too easy. If we would ever find out more about the next generation of kids at Hogwarts, I'd prefer to meet some new kids too and meet their families.

[FurryDice]

Originally Posted by birdi86

A lot of people have mentioned this but I don't think so.

I mean if she wanted to put a nod to non-canon shippers, it would have made more sense to have that scene between Albus Severus and Harry regarding Scorpius since the Harry/Draco fanbase is huge (much bigger than Draco/Hermione), is known by the stars (Tom Felton and Dan Radcliffe have both mentioned it several times) and would have made an interesting parallel to Dumbledore/Grindelwald.

JKR has another, more important scene for Al - his concern about the Sorting. Plus, I can't see Harry making a joke about Al beating Scorpius in his tests.

It could still be a nod to one of the best-known non-canon ships, IMO. In the last couple of books, I think JKR did reference some aspects of fandom.

[rosieechan]

Originally Posted by Nielo

I don't know, I always thought it was just Ron being funny, I never read anything else into it.

And ultimately, Ron's lines are decided by JKR.

But yeah, I think the fact that the line had "marriage" in it made Rose/Scorpius more realistic in the HP world. We wouldn't have as half as many Rose/Scorpius fans if it weren't for Ron's line alone (we would probably only have D/Hr fans shipping this).