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Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?



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  #861  
Old October 6th, 2011, 8:47 pm
lord_moldywort  Male.gif lord_moldywort is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I think the Rose/Scorpius pairing seems to perfect and set-up that it would only happen in a poorly written book and Jo does not write poorly written books.


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  #862  
Old October 17th, 2011, 6:38 am
Kathleen Malfoy  Female.gif Kathleen Malfoy is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I can see it happening and I think it would be nice. I don't think it would be far out either. I'm not sure why some people think it would be too weird or unlikely just because of their family histories. I think that as generations go by, the Malfoy family is much more likely to mingle with people outside of purebloods and all of that.

And we know that Harry/Ginny's kids and Herminone/Ron's kids aren't going to get together since they are cousins.


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Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
It's certainly a possibility! In an interview with Pottercast, when asked if Draco married Pansy, JKR vehemently replied no, he did not, because she loathed Pansy for being a bully and called her the anti-Hermione.

Now, I'm not saying that Asteria is the pureblood!Hermione but, given JKR's response, I can't see her marrying Draco off to Pansy 2.0.

As for Rose/Scorpius, the more I think about, the more convinced I am that if JKR ever does tell us more (whether in a book or in Pottermore) there will be a connection between the two of them. The question is will it be a Ron/Hermione type of thing where they meet on the train, become best friends (with Al rounding out the new little trio) and eventually falling in love, will they be friends like Snape and Lily but eventually drifting apart should Scorpius reveal he does harbor his family's prejudices or will they be like Harry and Hermione, good friends who have some thinking there is something romantic between them but are really just friends and nothing more?

I think JKR put a connection between them for a reason but what that could mean, no one knows.
What's nice about JK Rowling saying that is that....it also means that Jo thinks Draco deserved someone better than Pansy, someone with a better personality. The fact that Jo thinks Draco deserves someone 'nicer' than Pansy says something.

Although we don't know much about Astoria, yeah, I certainly doubt that she has those 'purebloods are better' viewpoints based on what JK just said there about Pansy and how she didn't want Draco to marry Pansy for that reason. I don't feel like even Draco really believes that stuff, I think he was put into a bad position being around people who did believe it but I don't think it's what he was naturally inclined to be like and I think that he became a better person than what he seemed to be at first.

EDIT:

By the way, anyone else notice that Narcissus is a flower/plant and so is Pansy and Rose? I mean...if you think about that....o_o

I don't think Astoria is though so it's not true for all the women associated with the Malfoy family.


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  #863  
Old November 13th, 2011, 10:28 pm
ReadByMoonlight  Female.gif ReadByMoonlight is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I don't know... I mean, would you put Hermione and Draco together? (Not in a fanfiction) I just don't think that a boy raised by Draco Malfoy could turn out to be anything but trouble.


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  #864  
Old November 13th, 2011, 11:28 pm
BronzeDragon  Female.gif BronzeDragon is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleen Malfoy View Post
I can see it happening and I think it would be nice. I don't think it would be far out either. I'm not sure why some people think it would be too weird or unlikely just because of their family histories. I think that as generations go by, the Malfoy family is much more likely to mingle with people outside of purebloods and all of that.

And we know that Harry/Ginny's kids and Herminone/Ron's kids aren't going to get together since they are cousins.




What's nice about JK Rowling saying that is that....it also means that Jo thinks Draco deserved someone better than Pansy, someone with a better personality. The fact that Jo thinks Draco deserves someone 'nicer' than Pansy says something.

Although we don't know much about Astoria, yeah, I certainly doubt that she has those 'purebloods are better' viewpoints based on what JK just said there about Pansy and how she didn't want Draco to marry Pansy for that reason. I don't feel like even Draco really believes that stuff, I think he was put into a bad position being around people who did believe it but I don't think it's what he was naturally inclined to be like and I think that he became a better person than what he seemed to be at first.

EDIT:

By the way, anyone else notice that Narcissus is a flower/plant and so is Pansy and Rose? I mean...if you think about that....o_o

I don't think Astoria is though so it's not true for all the women associated with the Malfoy family.
For what it's worth, there's some speculation that Astoria derives from the name Asteria, which is indeed a plant-derived name.

I do think that Draco did buy into the idea of blood purity, because he was raised with it; however, I also think that if he was ever in the position where his son was a blood traitor, he'd have some trouble accepting the idea, but would eventually decide that family was more important than anything. If there's anything the Malfoys decided after the Battle of Hogwarts, it was that their family came first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadByMoonlight
I don't know... I mean, would you put Hermione and Draco together? (Not in a fanfiction) I just don't think that a boy raised by Draco Malfoy could turn out to be anything but trouble.
I wouldn't put Hermione and Draco together; in the context of the books, there was no way it was ever going to happen.

But I don't think it's fair to judge someone by their parents - after all, flip this around, and you end up saying something like "Could you imagine that anyone raised by Walburga Black could turn out to be anything but trouble?" And then you have Sirius.

Or, it's like saying, "Can you imagine the same parents who produced Bellatrix turning out a good child?" And then you have Andromeda.

Of course, I write Scorpius/Rose fanfic in which Scorpius is nothing like his father, so I'm a bit biased...


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  #865  
Old November 16th, 2011, 6:11 am
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I think it's very, very possible for Rose and Scorpius to end up together. I even think Ron jinxed himself when he made the joke about being friendly to Draco's son. If Rose learned anything from her mother, it would be tolerance, and she'd likely not judge a boy based on his family. And who is to say that Scorpius is anything like Draco? He could be very different. Being raised by a person doesn't mean you become them. I mean, Harry was raised by the Dursleys!

Also, I think it would be hilarious if they ended up together just to see Ron squirm. I ADORE Ron, but it's always so funny when he's frustrated!


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  #866  
Old December 8th, 2011, 4:21 am
jacemano  Undisclosed.gif jacemano is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I think really that it was JKR throwing fanfic artists a bone (not that I'm complaining are a few okay fanfics on the matter).

Lure of the forbidden fruit can be quite strong I guess, and I would think that the two of them would have a decent amount to bond on with regards to the pressures of parental fame (Rose being the child of 2/3rds of the golden trio and Scorpius being the ONLY child of a death eater).

I don't think it would be impossible, after all Andromeda Black ran off with a muggleborn just before the first wizarding war started, and I'm sure that she was facing 10x more dangerous circumstances back then that Scorpius and Rose would have to endure.

As for Ron's comments, I do think it is a bit of a jinx. It's like telling a child Don't think about elephants. Before elephants were mentioned there was no thought of them, now the thought has been planted. Tell a child you absolutely cannot marry this person, then they are suddenly thinking about 'not' marrying them and then there will now be that constant double take and reassessing of any realtionship that the two do have.


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  #867  
Old December 8th, 2011, 5:51 pm
Alfine  Female.gif Alfine is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by jacemano View Post
Lure of the forbidden fruit can be quite strong I guess, and I would think that the two of them would have a decent amount to bond on with regards to the pressures of parental fame (Rose being the child of 2/3rds of the golden trio and Scorpius being the ONLY child of a death eater).
Although I see your point, I don't think that that's still the most important thing after 19 years.
I've said in another thread (the one about Scorpius I guess) that I could imagine that the prejudices aren't as strong as they used to be anymore after all that time, and although Draco never really was a good friend of the trio, he seems to have calmed down and seems to tolerate them (he doesn't even ignore them, but nods at them at the station when he realized the three of them look at him).
And I honestly don't think he raises his son with intense death-eater-like believes or something, because I don't think the time when LV had all that power wasn't a particulary nice part of Draco's life. I don't know about his purebloods-are-better-thinking, though...but since he, Draco, was raised by a death eater himself and knows where that led to, he will probably don't make the same mistakes.
At least that's what I think. (although I do not think that he raises his child completely tolerant and liberal and stuff like that, it would seem a bit...well, odd xD)


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Originally Posted by jacemano View Post
As for Ron's comments, I do think it is a bit of a jinx. It's like telling a child Don't think about elephants. Before elephants were mentioned there was no thought of them, now the thought has been planted. Tell a child you absolutely cannot marry this person, then they are suddenly thinking about 'not' marrying them and then there will now be that constant double take and reassessing of any realtionship that the two do have.
I agree on that one :>
Although Rose perhaps doesn't really think about it at all, perhaps Ron mentioned earlier, when they were still at home, that Draco's son will start going to Hogwarts as well and that she should be cautious. Maybe Rose just thinks something just like "yeah, whatever dad" and doesn't give it any further thoughts.


I myself don't know if I really wanted to see them as a couple, but I'm having difficulties with the new generation in general. I can't quite relate to the children, and to be honest, I don't really care.
Nevertheless, I can imagine both - them ending up as a couple or friends, or simply no relationship at all.


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  #868  
Old December 9th, 2011, 2:34 am
SilverQueen  Female.gif SilverQueen is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
Just to throw in wild guesses about personalities -

Rowling has shown a strong tendency towards symbolic names, sometimes ones that are amazingly helpful.

So, for example, Regulus Black's name suggested the regulus in alchemy - the "finer" or better part in one of the separation stages. This suggested that, despite Sirius' brief, negative summary of him, Regulus would have been a good person and even, by some measurements, the better of the two brothers (this suggestion made little or no sense before book 7). Regulus is also the name of the star in Leo also known as the Heart of the Lion, suggesting courage and an alignment with Harry's side. The name also means prince or little king and is the Latin version of the Greek derived "basilisk." This also suggests some possible references to The Little Prince, but that seems iffier.

So, it may be worthwhile to look at just the names and see what they suggest.

Rose - Although roses have been used in a variety of ways over the ages, the obvious one these days is love.

Rose's name is also closer to her father's, Ron (just as her brother, Hugo, has a name closer to their mother's). This suggests her personality may be somewhat more like Ron's.

Since I mentioned The Little Prince, I will also toss in a mention of the rose in that story which is much beloved by the title character.

OK, so not much or roses. We have a suggestion of love playing a major part in the character's story as well as hints of a personality more driven by emotions than by logic. By the way, if you look up the flower names in the series in books on the language of flowers (it was a 19th century thing), you will find nearly all the characters are spot on for their names (Petunia, for example, means resentment).

Scorpio Hyperion - Let's start with the obvious. Scorpio is a zodiac sign. Scorpios are known for their intellect and for their passion. Falling in love is supposed to be a big deal to them, and they can be expected to go to great lengths to win the person they fall for.

Like many constellations, Scorpio also has a myth behind it. There are two basic stories. There was a great hunter, Orion (note that this is a significant name in the Black family tree). The sun god, Apollo, had reason to believe Orion represented a threat to the chastity of his sister, Diana/Artemis, goddess of the moon and the hunt (some stories seem to suggest Orion intended assault, some suggest Apollo feared his sister might simply fall for the guy). So, he created a scorpion and sent it to kill Orion. The other story says Diana herself sent the scorpion after Orion. Although a hunter herself, she was also the protector of wild animals. When Orion, in his pride, swore to kill all of them, she took steps.

This second version seems to fit symbolically with a good Scorpio Malfoy. Orion, a past head of the Black family, strongly supported the Pureblood philosophy. Scorpio, then, could represent a person in opposition to it.

Hyperion was one of the Titans. Those of you who only know them from the Percy Jackson stories may be surprised to learn Hyperion was actually one of the Titans who didn't side with Cronus. Some later traditions associate him with keen observation and awareness of what's going on (side effect of being a god of light [by the way - a god of light, not a supporter of the dark arts :-) ]).

So, Hyperion was a product of an older, eviler regime who did not support it but became a supporter of a new and better regime when it came along.

But, Hyperion was also associated with the sun. As I understand it, sun scorpios are especially noted for using their powerful intellects for observing and analyzing. While highly intuitive, they judge by what is rather than by their prejudices.

Scorpios can also represent death of the old and rebirth.

Also, the scorpion is strongly associated with the basilisk. While, on one level (the same one with the Chamber of Secrets), this would seem to be a Bad Thing, it also connects him to Regulus Black (whose name was a Latin form of the Greek Basilisk).

Also, Regulus/Basilisk means little king or prince. Anyone who's read The Little Prince knows how he felt about the rose (weak, but I had to say it).

Conclusions:

If - and it's a big if - we are to judge Scorpio by his name, the indications put him in opposition to Pureblood prejudices (he opposes what Orion represents. He also is a keener observer with great understanding who doesn't let past assumptions trip him up, just the kind of person you would expect to be able to winnow truth from prejudice).

He would also be extremely intelligent (a major point for winning Hermione over).

If his zodiac sign is an indication, he also is likely to have an important storyline involving being in love.

The same zodiac sign connects him to the death of the old and the rebirth of the new in a positive, healing sort of way.

His middle name, Hyperion, also connects him with Harry (born under the sun sign, Leo, and strongly associated with the Solar King of alchemy).

Rose, less symbolically burdened, seems equally associated with a romance storyline and to be more likely influenced by her hear than her head as well as having a (weak) symbolism connection with the rose in The Little Prince while Scorpio has a (even weaker) connection to the Little Prince.

Eh, it's not the strongest argument, but it seems worth throwing out there.
A nice analysis of the name symbolism, I think there might be something to it. Thanks, Ellen, for doing all that work. I feel somewhat ashamed at not having noticed the Orion parallels before (I love that myth, as it involves my own first name). Building on the symbolism assignable to Rose's name, the rose is a plant of many varieties, many of which are medicinally useful as well as beautiful. Roses have thorns, of course, but many varieties are not good at competing with more agressive plants- although some varieties, like rosa rugosa, are energetic survivors and grow vigourously in areas like beaches where a lot of other plants can't. So are we looking at someone who is capable, talented, beautiful, prickly, and very determined (or rather retiring)? Or maybe Ron and Hermione just like roses, or JK thought it would be a good name for someone with red hair.

I'm quite partial to the Rose/Scorpius ship, but I think that they could just as well turn out to be platonic friends. Scorpius could fall in love with Albus or Lily, for all we know- or Luna's sons, or George's daughter, or anyone else for that matter. I do wonder if JK put the anti-pureblood-marrying, pro-rivalry-forming lines in Ron's mouth just to get us all excited and provide endless fodder for fanfiction. It seems in keeping with her manner of making hints and revealing information after the fact. If she isn't going to write another book, it will keep us all specualting forever; if she does write another book, most of us will be salivating to know whether we were right or not.

All in all, I don't think that Draco's and Ron's prejudices would be an impediment to a cross-family romance. If young people in love always conducted their affairs according to the attitudes of their parents' generation, then we would all be living in a world without racial intermarriage, religous intermarriage, or same-sex marriage or partnership. Clearly, the wizarding world is as much subject to passion-induced rulebreaking as everywhere else; if it wasn't, Andromeda Black would never have married Ted Tonks. Someone has to forge ahead and continue to break down old prejudices; it might be Rose and Scorpio, or it might not.

Maybe we should just ask JK...


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  #869  
Old December 19th, 2011, 9:42 pm
Exrtaus  Undisclosed.gif Exrtaus is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

I actually could see this happening.


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  #870  
Old December 29th, 2011, 9:17 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by SilverQueen View Post
All in all, I don't think that Draco's and Ron's prejudices would be an impediment to a cross-family romance.

Draco's prejudices are against blood - they're irrational and arrogant. Ron dislikes Draco Malfoy because of his behaviour, and because Draco is a racist. I don't consider it a prejudice to dislike racists - I don't think it's prejudice to dislike people because of bad things they do.
IMO, these differences would be an impediment if, as seems likely, Draco passed blood prejudice rubbish on to his son. I don't see a child raised in the Granger/Weasley household as putting up with blood bigotry or considering it to have the slightest bit of validity.

Quote:
Clearly, the wizarding world is as much subject to passion-induced rulebreaking as everywhere else; if it wasn't, Andromeda Black would never have married Ted Tonks. Someone has to forge ahead and continue to break down old prejudices; it might be Rose and Scorpio, or it might not.

I think that the issue with the Rose/Scorpius idea is that it would require one of them to turn their back on their family's values. I think it could be sweet if Scorpius proved to be the Andromeda of his generation and was able to see past the stupidity of blood prejudice.

On the other hand, I think it would be sad and unhealthy if Rose turned against the values of equality she was surely raised with, as the daughter of Hermione Granger. If she was able to put herself into a relationship with someone who considered her and her mother inferior, "just because", I think it would be a huge step backward from what the war was fought for, and a desperately dangerous relationship for Rose to be in.


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  #871  
Old December 30th, 2011, 3:59 am
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

Due to my previous "Drarry" shipping, I always somewhat pictured Albus Severus and Scorpious being together. To me, this relationship seems more legit than Rose ans Scorpious being together. Mostly due to the fact that, yes, dating Scorpious would set Rose back from the principles Hermione most positively taught her. Albus was most likely taught by Harry to value friendship and have open arms to those who seek it. I don't know if it's just a lost fantasy of mine, but Scorpious extending his hand for friendship to Albus can definitely start off their relationship.


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  #872  
Old December 30th, 2011, 6:06 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by TrueRavenclaw View Post
Due to my previous "Drarry" shipping, I always somewhat pictured Albus Severus and Scorpious being together. To me, this relationship seems more legit than Rose ans Scorpious being together. Mostly due to the fact that, yes, dating Scorpious would set Rose back from the principles Hermione most positively taught her.
I think that any kind of pureblood supremacy ideals would be off-putting for Al in a friend or partner. The Potter/Weasley family would have grown up seeing that people are equal, no matter what their blood. I can imagine they would have raised their kids to see blood prejudice as wrong, and something that has no place in their world. If Scorpius was like his Aunt Andromeda or cousin Sirius and was able to look past blood prejudice, then I could see a friendship or relationship being possible. But I can't see it happening at all if Scorpius carried on the Malfoy tradition of bigotry.

Quote:
Albus was most likely taught by Harry to value friendship and have open arms to those who seek it. I don't know if it's just a lost fantasy of mine, but Scorpious extending his hand for friendship to Albus can definitely start off their relationship.
Considering what happened to Ginny in her first year, I think that she and Harry would have taught their kids to be careful about who to trust, and to see that not everyone who extends the hand of friendship is a good, trustworthy person, or is doing it for the right reasons. I think that they would definitely teach their kids to value friendship - but true friendship, not availability to everyone who wants a piece of them.


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  #873  
Old December 30th, 2011, 8:13 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueRavenclaw View Post
Due to my previous "Drarry" shipping, I always somewhat pictured Albus Severus and Scorpious being together. To me, this relationship seems more legit than Rose ans Scorpious being together. Mostly due to the fact that, yes, dating Scorpious would set Rose back from the principles Hermione most positively taught her. Albus was most likely taught by Harry to value friendship and have open arms to those who seek it. I don't know if it's just a lost fantasy of mine, but Scorpious extending his hand for friendship to Albus can definitely start off their relationship.
Why would Scorpius extending his hand in friendhip to Al rather than Rose be more believable? Also if Scorpius' hand in friendship is anything like his father's I wouldn't trust it that much if I was Al. It would take a heck of a lot more than a hand held out for me to trust a son of Draco. Scorpius, I'm afraid would have to prove that he would be a freind worth having. Scorpius, for good or ill is the son of a bigot who was part of a conspiracy to murder and bring down the Wizarding World. That's sad, but I'm afraid it's human nature. The Malfoys earned themselves a bad reputation.


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  #874  
Old December 30th, 2011, 8:52 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by MsJPotter View Post
Why would Scorpius extending his hand in friendhip to Al rather than Rose be more believable?
I think if Scorpius is like his father, he might be more inclined to seek the friendship of the child of two famous people than with the child of a "mudblood" and a blood traitor. In that sense, it would be more believable for him to approach Al than to approach Rose. However, I think that if Scorpius looked down his nose at Rose, it would be reason enough for Al to not trust him.

Although I can't see him approaching any of the Potter/Weasley family in friendship, or vice-versa. I think that they could go through their school days having little contact with each other, neither friends nor rivals, which would be a step up from the enmity between their parents. I imagine it would take something external to push them to interact beyond the basic interactions with classmates one doesn't know well.

I'd like to think that Scorpius became the Andromeda or Sirius of his generation - he would make a far better person than his father or grandfather if he did, and I think that's the only way I can see a healthy relationship or even a friendship between Scorpius and any of the Weasley/Potter/Granger etc. extended family.



Quote:
Also if Scorpius' hand in friendship is anything like his father's I wouldn't trust it that much if I was Al. It would take a heck of a lot more than a hand held out for me to trust a son of Draco.
I agree. Offering friendship means nothing if one cannot behave like a true friend. An offer of friendship doesn't mean one is trustworthy, or that that offer should be accepted - as shown when Harry refused Draco's friendship.


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  #875  
Old December 30th, 2011, 9:18 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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=FurryDice;5956095]I think if Scorpius is like his father, he might be more inclined to seek the friendship of the child of two famous people than with the child of a "mudblood" and a blood traitor. In that sense, it would be more believable for him to approach Al than to approach Rose. However, I think that if Scorpius looked down his nose at Rose, it would be reason enough for Al to not trust him.
I won't disagree with you. Truth to tell I've never given Scorpius a thought. He's Draco's son, Draco is his father's son and that was enough for me not to think about him. It's kind of harsh to judge him by the fact that I believe Draco was such a worthless person but in these books character tendancies seem to run from the the parents through the child. Bella is the product of her parents, Ron is the product of his, Snape is the product of his parents and Harry is the child of James and Lily's perfect love for each other. Ron and Harry perfectly embody the love their parents had for them and for each other, and Bella perfectly embodies the beliefs her parents held. So while in real life I wouldn't judge a child by his parents, in the Harry Potter universe I wouldn't discount the parent's influence.

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Although I can't see him approaching any of the Potter/Weasley family in friendship, or vice-versa. I think that they could go through their school days having little contact with each other, neither friends nor rivals, which would be a step up from the enmity between their parents. I imagine it would take something external to push them to interact beyond the basic interactions with classmates one doesn't know well.
This I could see being the case.I don't think for a second that Al or Rose would have been placed in Slytherin so the chances of their paths crossing more than the everyday is slight IMO.

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I'd like to think that Scorpius became the Andromeda or Sirius of his generation - he would make a far better person than his father or grandfather if he did, and I think that's the only way I can see a healthy relationship or even a friendship between Scorpius and any of the Weasley/Potter/Granger etc. extended family.
Maybe if Scorpius was the one placed in Gryffindor, that's a nice thought.

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I agree. Offering friendship means nothing if one cannot behave like a true friend. An offer of friendship doesn't mean one is trustworthy, or that that offer should be accepted - as shown when Harry refused Draco's friendship.
I don't think Draco offered friendship to Harry. But I do think Draco wanted to say that he was 'friends' with "The Harry Potter, The Boy Who Lived." Harry wasn't missing much in turning down such a worthless offer, IMO.


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  #876  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:07 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by MsJPotter
Bella is the product of her parents,
So was Andromeda.

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I don't think for a second that Al or Rose would have been placed in Slytherin so the chances of their paths crossing more than the everyday is slight IMO.
Harry was friends with Luna. Neville married the Hufflepuff Hannah. Snape and Lily were friends until his own prejudice drove her away. Ginny dated Michael Corner. Harry dated Cho. They all had friends and relationships outside their houses.

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Maybe if Scorpius was the one placed in Gryffindor, that's a nice thought.
Why this assumption that Rose and Al will be in Gryffindor? Al didn't strike me as a Gryffindor or a Slytherin (maybe a Hufflepuff or a Ravenclaw) and with all the mention of Rose's brains, she could go into Ravenclaw like her mother nearly did. Perhaps Scorpius will join them. For all we know, his mother is a Ravenclaw.

Even if she's not, the Weasleys and the Malfoys should not be taken as the rule when it comes to house sorting. Even the Blacks produced the Gryffindor Sirius, the Patil twins went into separate houses, and Andromeda had a Hufflepuff daughter.

And, again, Scorpius did not spring fully-formed from Draco's head. He has a mother too and her house is not known. I realize we know nothing about Miss Greengrass, not even a definitive explanation on how her first name is spelled, but given the emphasis the books place on mothers I'm going to imagine she was more than just the incubator for Draco's genetic material.

Finally - the words that I should just put in my signature as it will save me time and effort down the road - However, I think Scorpius would be an improvement on his father, whom misfortune has sobered! - JK Rowling


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Last edited by Hes; December 31st, 2011 at 9:43 am.
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  #877  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:43 pm
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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Originally Posted by birdi86 View Post
Harry was friends with Luna. Neville married the Hufflepuff Hannah. Snape and Lily were friends until his own prejudice drove her away. Ginny dated Michael Corner. Harry dated Cho. They all had friends and relationships outside their houses.
They had relationships outside their House, but they did not have friendships with people with blood prejudices. Apart from Lily, and she ended that friendship when she opened her eyes to the prejudices her friend was embracing. I can't see Rose, a child raised by Muggleborn Hermione Granger, and blood traitor Ron Weasley befriending or dating someone who had blood prejudices.

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Why this assumption that Rose and Al will be in Gryffindor? Al didn't strike me as a Gryffindor or a Slytherin (maybe a Hufflepuff or a Ravenclaw) and with all the mention of Rose's brains, she could go into Ravenclaw like her mother nearly did. Perhaps Scorpius will join them. For all we know, his mother is a Ravenclaw.
Even if they are in the same house, it doesn't mean that they will have much to do with each other. If Scorpius shares the bigotry of the Malfoy family, I don't think there is any chance of a friendship or relationship with Rose.


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And, again, Scorpius did not spring fully-formed from Draco's head. He has a mother too and her house is not known. I realize we know nothing about Miss Greengrass, not even a definitive explanation on how her first name is spelled, but given the emphasis the books place on mothers I'm going to imagine she was more than just the incubator for Draco's genetic material.
As she married Draco, it's likely that Astoria/Asteria shared his views on blood purity, at least to some extent. Someone who fully considered pureblood superiority to be nonsense would not get involved with someone who believed in it to the extent of Draco Malfoy.

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Finally - the words that I should just put in my signature as it will save me time and effort down the road - However, I think Scorpius would be an improvement on his father, whom misfortune has sobered! - JK Rowling
An improvement on Draco is not saying much. Draco wanted to, and later did, join a murderous group of racists. Scorpius, as an improvement, may still be a racist, but might not take it to the extremes of criminality that his father and grandfather did.

I can't imagine Draco being willing to raise a child to recognise others as his equal, no matter what their blood is.

An improvement on Draco could mean that Scorpius is like his Great Aunt Andromeda and able to get over himself when it comes to blood. I'd like to think that, but it's also possible that it just means that Scorpius will content himself with looking down his nose at "mudbloods" rather than wishing them dead, as his father did.


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  #878  
Old December 30th, 2011, 11:47 pm
PhoenixGryffin  Female.gif PhoenixGryffin is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

Hmm. Interesting. I think that maybe they wouldn't fall in love with each other until fifth year or something like that, even if they did feel any attraction for each other, which seems highly unlikely. I think they might go out with each other if they did end up liking each other...but I honestly don't think that that would ever really happen. I just can't see that. I honestly don't think that Scorpius ever improved that much. Yes, he is an improvement on his father, but I can't see anyone from their family falling in love with someone who was related to a Muggle-born and a blood traitor. Yes, I think their family's gotten nicer, but I don't think they'd suddenly be all nicey-nice to Muggle-borns, and they still might place importance on purebloods. But it's really your opinion.



Last edited by PhoenixGryffin; December 30th, 2011 at 11:54 pm. Reason: I forgot to add something.
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  #879  
Old December 31st, 2011, 1:13 am
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

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I can't see Rose, a child raised by Muggleborn Hermione Granger, and blood traitor Ron Weasley befriending or dating someone who had blood prejudices.
Where in the books or Rowling's interviews is Scorpius mentioned as being a bigot?

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As she married Draco, it's likely that Astoria/Asteria shared his views on blood purity, at least to some extent.
Why? Draco wasn't just his prejudice. Maybe they had other things in common. A love of being rich, a desire to be seen as special, a tendency to cry in girl's bathrooms.

And to some extent could mean anything from - "I hate mudbloods but not enough to want them dead" to "I was against Voldemort and the Death Eaters, do not support policies that enforce or uphold blood prejudice, do not support the attacks on Muggles or anti-Muggle prejudice, and even have Muggle-born friends! (But, coincidentally, I married a pure-blood, only dated pure-bloods, and all my really good friends are pure-bloods or those whose ties to the wizarding world go back a few generations.)"

Just like there are difference between racist white people who use slurs and those who support many anti-racist policies and laws but in their personal lives, surround themselves with other white people, I'm sure there are differences among the wizarding populace as well. So "to some extent" even assuming it's true, tells us little.

That said, Hermione is clearly far more liberal than Ron. He has to keep himself from arguing with her defense of giants in book 4 and it took him several books to really get what she was telling him about SPEW. Even though he was not a bigot like Draco, he did take wizarding privilege for granted. Ron and Hermione share many similar beliefs and goals but they do not march in lockstep. Narcissa and Lucius clearly do not march in lockstep or Narcissa would have joined her husband and sister and taken the mark. And she had no problem betraying the cause for one greater to her. Petunia and Vernon both had a dislike for the wizarding world but clearly, Vernon's was more knee-jerk blind hatred while Petunia's was colored by distrust, envy, and her own experience with it.
Somehow, I can't imagine Vernon ever wanting a letter from Hogwarts.

All those couples share the same beliefs "to some extent".

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Draco wanted to, and later did, join a murderous group of racists. Scorpius, as an improvement, may still be a racist, but might not take it to the extremes of criminality that his father and grandfather did.
Or he might be rebellious like Sirius and Andromeda and argue against all pure-blood policies.

And frankly, I doubt JKR would see being a racist snotbag who is not a Death Eater as an improvement on Draco because, that describes Draco for books 1-5 and I don't think early!Draco was an improvement on later!Draco.

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I'd like to think that, but it's also possible that it just means that Scorpius will content himself with looking down his nose at "mudbloods" rather than wishing them dead, as his father did.
Your entire argument is based on the assumption Scorpius only has one parent. We don't know anything about his mother or her family. As I've said before, for all we know Daphne was one of the Slytherins who JKR has mentioned as returning from Hogsmeade to fight against Voldemort. And after the war maybe she married some member of Dumbledore's Army like Justin Finch-Fletchley or Dean Thomas and that's why Ron knows Scorpius's name. And maybe the Greengrasses are old purebloods more in the mold of the Macmillans and the Longbottoms rather than the Malfoys and the Lestranges.

You may find that hard to believe but think of this: We never hear mention of a Greengrass joining the ranks of the Death Eaters - and several other classmates of Draco have a family member mentioned in GoF - Nott, Goyle, Crabbe. We don't hear Daphne or Asteria mentioned as one of the Inquisitorial Squad like Pansy Parkinson or Bulstrode. We don't know of them having any (possibly) murderous relatives like Zabini and we never see either girl hanging out with Pansy or Draco when they're at their snotty bigoted worst in school.

We don't hear much about the Greengrasses but even those omissions are telling.

Draco has been left "humbled" and "sobered" after the war, per JKR.

When asked if Draco married Pansy, JKR exclaims that she hated Pansy for being a bully and then says he married Asteria.

And JKR has said that Scorpius will be an improvement on his father.

Take these things all together and yeah, I'm not seeing "Scorpius is a spoiled, racist brat." If he were, JKR would have said so. She had no problem smacking down people who romanticized Draco and would surely do it again.


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"Scorpius has a lot going against him, not least that name. However, I think Scorpius would be an improvement on his father, whom misfortune has sobered!" - JKR

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Last edited by birdi86; December 31st, 2011 at 1:19 am.
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  #880  
Old December 31st, 2011, 3:19 am
GingerCat1  Undisclosed.gif GingerCat1 is offline
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Re: Rose / Scorpius: What do you think?

JKR is way to good a writer as to fall into the trap of having 2 people from waring families fall in love.



Last edited by Hes; December 31st, 2011 at 9:58 am.
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