Beyond the Veil

[whizbang121]

Lupin and Nick seemed pretty sure that Sirius was gone and he wasn't coming back. And while Luna didn't suggest he was, she did seem to think that they would see him again. I felt like she was suggesting that she would be with her mother again after she died. Maybe I'm misinterpreting that scene or don't remember it well. Hmmmm.......

[Tonks08]

I always thought that the veil was sort of used for execution, because of the dais and the seat thinggys.

The voices, I think were the voices of the dead people, and I'm under the impression that everyone that dies goes through it in some form or another. When Luna mentioned something like, "its not like we'll ever see them again. They were just wondering out of sight." made me think that it was like a portal to death.

And the wind that blows the veil eerily, could be the spirits passing through... doesn't someone die every second? I have a feeling that Harry will somehow speak to Sirius, his Dad and his mum again through the veil.

[Sabine]

Originally Posted by ultimate sacrifice

These thoughts have crossed my mind as well, Angora. What happened to Sirius' body??? What happened to James and Lily's body??? Don't you find it curious that Harry has never been taken to their gravesite to mourn or anything by anyone in the wizarding family at Hogwarts???

I never so much wondered why they didn't show it to Harry ... much more "bothersome" seems to me the fact that Harry never ever asks about it.

Originally Posted by ultimate sacrifice

From what I remember about Sirius' death, he seemed to be stunned that he was heading for the viel and ...

Strange - I didn't read it that way.... I thought/think Sirius was stunned at the mere fact that he was hit at all. Especially because of what he said to Bellatrix before he was hit: "Come on, you can do better than that!"

Originally Posted by ultimate sacrifice

However, Luna didn't seem to be as distaught or depressed about the "finality" of it all. She seemed to believe that they would be able to communicate with those that were "beyond the veil".

Yeah - but - how should I put this .... She doesn't only seem to believe ... she really seems to know! As if she had done it before....

Originally Posted by ultimate sacrifice

So, I am perplexed and getting more and more impatient for the next book, because I need some answers! Need a Harry Potter fix, badly!!!

me too

Sabine

[leenielou]

Angora....once again you take my breath away! Yum yum yum lots of nice new material to think on, so thank you very very much

I love the idea of the veil pre-dating the MOM. I think that it is highly likely....wasn't the DoM on the very bottom floor or something? Reading throughout Angora's amazing post, with this theory in mind, I suddenly and inexplicably made a connection within my head to the druids. And then, the next post down, morgan le fay has mentioned them

I've never previously agreed with any druid theories on HP. The re-post concering druid rituals with a veil does seem to have some sort of parallel, but the connection that I had made was to do with ley lines. I don't know much about these things, but were they not supposed to bear the souls/spirits/energy of the druids? Perhaps the veil was at a point of heavy convergence of ley lines, which would also tie in with the nice analogy of 'fly paper for souls' from Angora

[morgan le fay]

ley lines??? what are those?

[Hairy Potty]

What if the veil turn those who pass through it into dementors. The veil doesn't make the dead, but the undead...

[Masterfroggy]

Originally Posted by Hairy Potty

What if the veil turn those who pass through it into dementors. The veil doesn't make the dead, but the undead...

Dementore's aren't as far as we know, dead, they are creatures that cause death of the soul. I have always thought that whatever hit Sirius killed him and that is the reason he passed through the veil, it was a metaphor for death.
I know that the arch is real and the veil was real, but JKR didn't want to leave a opening (allowing fans to think that the MoM could revive Sirius), so she had him pass through the Curtain of death, where even his body vanishes, there is no reason to revive Sirius he has served his purpose.

I agree that the veil as most likely the place where in olden time criminals were put to death, and as a fixed point was probably there long before the MoM was built, How it was discovered is anyone's guess I cannot see a collective group of 'normal' wizards all sitting around and deciding one day, over a smoking goblet of Ogdens old firewhisky " Lets make a hole in the space time continuum so we can push naughty wizards through"

[ultimate sacrifice]

[quote=Sabine]I never so much wondered why they didn't show it to Harry ... much more "bothersome" seems to me the fact that Harry never ever asks about it. [quote]

Totally agree. The characters certainly do not respond to things in a "real life" sort of manner in the way that they communicate. I don't think anyone talks anything out in the books! Good Lands, I would have wanted to go see the burial site of my parents immediately! I mean the minute that Hagrid showed up in that hut on the island and took Harry away, He should have quizzed Hagrid and bugged him until he got to the truth. Not only Harry in this case, most all of the characters are "incommunicato"!

Is that the "stiff upper lip" type of thing in the British culture??? Guess that is what keeps us coming back, tho. We keep thinking we're going to get a clue to help us solve the mystery.

[Discordia]

Lupin knew what that veil was even though he didn't say so bc you could tell by the expression on his face. I see 2 possibilties. That veil is either used as an execution chamber bc it's set up like an amphiteatre OR it's aportal to the underworld or the afterlife. Like the River Styx. Luna could Hear the voices behind the veil. Everyone except Ron and HErmione were entranced by it. There were voices behind it. I think that quite possibly it could be something similar to that of the River Styx in Greek legends.I think that whoever falls inside of it is dead though so Srius won't be back. Harry should have asked about it. Luna might understand what it was though. THere were voices behind it. My bese guess of it so far is that it it's some portal into the afterlife. Lupin knew what it was though and if Harry had any sense he would ask about!

[Sabine]

Originally Posted by Discordia

bc you could tell by the expression on his face.

From where did you read that? There is only "a breaking Voice" when he tells Harry that Sirius wont came back. And the other thing is that its mentioned that his face was "pale" when he ficed Nevilles leg.

Sofar I have found no description of the expression in Lupins face that would approve that he knows.

Sabine

[Discordia]

From where did you read that? There is only "a breaking Voice" when he tells Harry that Sirius wont came back. And the other thing is that its mentioned that his face was "pale" when he ficed Nevilles leg.

Sofar I have found no description of the expression in Lupins face that would approve that he knows.

That part was more from my imagination The point is that he knew or had some idea of what exactly that veil was or lead to.

[ultimate sacrifice]

Originally Posted by Discordia

That part was more from my imagination The point is that he knew or had some idea of what exactly that veil was or lead to.

I imagined/interpreted it that way, too. I guess I projected my own grief for Lupin's loss of another friend when I read the book.

The suggestion of the viel being a portal to the afterlife or the underworld is a good one. The river styx comparison is a good one as well.

It's hard to accept the finality of Sirius' fall into the viel as death because there are so many ways JKR could bring him back as well as allow Harry to communicate with him. He was able to stave off the dementors in Azkaban afterall! The time turner was used to save Sirius and Buckbeak...So, I just keep hoping that JKR will come up with some way to reverse the events and get Harry and Sirius back together.

I also didn't interpret Luna's comments about the voices behind the viel to mean that they were sinister. Like only the voices of evil people could be heard. Would anyone like to expound on that? In other words, I didn't interpret Luna's comments to mean that the voices that they heard were only the voices of those in the underworld. Is that how ya'll read it?

[davickm1]

i think the veil will have an important roll in the next book. I think harry will communicate with sirius through it and it will help him in some way. Sirius may give something to harry through it

[padfoot1008]

i agree with loz, i think harry will definatly go back. I mean he has no one left.. and he just lost the only father-figure he had. So i think he's going to go back, but i don't know if someone (hermione ) will stop him from going through the veil?

[complicated]

I think behind the veil is the 'other side' of the world where all the dead people go, like everyone thinks in here. And i think why Harry and Luna could hear voices coming behind the veil is because they had seen death, it's more like the Thestrals, you have to seen death to see it. About the dais, i think it's just like a roof for the other world.i think once you entered the archway, you're going to fall down like forever but then there must be an end to it and at the end might be the dead talking. If you think about it it's quite scary. And finally i think i know why there is cold wind or cool breeze coming from the archway it is because it is the other side of the world and have you ever got told that when a ghost is near usually the temperature drops and if you have those wind charms they move even though there is no wind coming, if you think about it, it's quite scary as well.

[Discordia]

Like I said before think River Styx. It's like the passageway to the underworld with all the dead souls. Like if you fall into the River styx you lose your soul to the underworld and you automatically die. Maybe that's what happened to Sirius.

[Juniper]

The look on Lupin and everyone else’s face when Sirius went through the veil really summed up the whole issue for me, that Sirius is indeed dead. That he has also been sent to a place where he does not deserve to be cast into.

What lies beyond the veil must be dangerous as Lupin held onto Harry very hard to prevent him from following Sirius, which suggests that Lupin has some idea as to what is behind that veiled curtain. It is possibly something very dark as Lupin was the defence against the dark arts teacher and therefore specialises in this area. Perhaps he can tell Harry or at least answer some of Harry’s questions as to what lies beyond the veil.

[Furienna]

Originally Posted by Discordia

Everyone except Ron and HErmione were entranced by it.

As far as I remember, I can't remember Ginny or Neville being entranced to it. Only Harry and Luna seemed to hear voices and get entranced. Ginny went a little closer to it than Hermione, but I don't if she was entranced. Neville wasn't mentioned at that point.

[complicated]

i agree with Juniper But i still think in a way that Sirius is not dead. i mean it is the magical world and there is always a solution to every problem. maybe i just couldn't handle the truth that Sirius is dead, i mean how he died. maybe someone or something could save sirius's life from behind the veil but if Bellatrix Lestrange used Avada Kedavra curse on him then i would believe he would be dead.

I don't know what i'm saying anymore, that didn't make much sense but hey it kinda in a way do..

[padfoot1008]

Maybe, but i was just wondering, what if Harry just went back to the veil and threw one of the two mirrors sirius and james used, into the veil, so he could talk to his parents and sirius? Or is there like a portrait of either one of them, or sirius, so harry could talk to it? like in pro. Dumbledore's office, that would certainly make things better!