Beyond the Veil

[angel4christ]

Sirius must come back. I think they are not telling Harry something, because it is very dangerous and they don't want to lose him. There must be some way to bring people back. I would also like to bring this to your attention: Harry heard his father who is an animagus. I think it was also mentioned that Luna's mother was an animagus, and who did Luna hear? She didn't hear her grandfather and Harry didn't hear his mother. I think there has to be somthing in that. Usually Harry sees both of his parents.

[flipfloputz]

Sirius most likely will come back. He is a pretty main (lol, pretty main) character in the books so far. JK couldn't have just put him in 3 of them and then said, whoops! he's gone now. no, he definitely isn't gone because JK is NOT an idiot by any means.

[whizbang121]

Originally Posted by angel4christ

Sirius must come back. I think they are not telling Harry something, because it is very dangerous and they don't want to lose him. There must be some way to bring people back. I would also like to bring this to your attention: Harry heard his father who is an animagus. I think it was also mentioned that Luna's mother was an animagus, and who did Luna hear? She didn't hear her grandfather and Harry didn't hear his mother. I think there has to be somthing in that. Usually Harry sees both of his parents.

Can you post the quotes for the above. I'm not aware of Luna's mother being an animagus or of any of the voices being identified, but I haven't read the book in awhile.

[flipfloputz]

I just re-read it and Luna's mother wasn't an animagus, i don't think, and yeah, they could never identify the voices, they just heard mumbling(sp)

[Medb]

Didn't JKR say that it's impossible to bring people back from the dead? I think we will definately be seeing more of Sirius, but his purpose is to teach Harry and the rest of the wizarding world something through his death.

[angel4christ]

yeah, sorry, I was wrong about that. I couldn't check, because I had loaned out my book.

[Hogwarts4evr]

I agree that Sirius died and will never come back. I think the only way we will see Sirius is through the Pensieve. [She seems to like using flashbacks alot.] Sirius died from the veil not the curse--that's how I read it.

The Veil will be revisited, of course. I think it was used as a punishment for crimes. Court could have been held in there.

[GreenBean]

I always thought of the veil as a metaphor for "the other side" or the world after death. Perhaps it is an "opening" to that world? When Harry was talking to Nearly Headless Nick towards the end of the book, I think he should have specifically asked about the veil. It seems to be something he would know about. I think the veil is just a bridge in between the living world and the dead world.

I also wondered about seeing more of Sirius. I have always wondered if Harry could still get "in touch" with him through that mirror Sirius gave him and told him to use to talk to him. Harry seemed to have forgotten about the mirror.

[Quillmagus]

I hate Bellatrix Lestrange! Poor Sirius! Whether or not he is really dead, do we really know? Was there anyone directly saying that Sirius was dead? Or did they just say that he was "gone"? Because, as far as I'm concerned "gone" and "dead" have different meanings.

[Sturgis Podmore]

sirius i believe is dead, see a quote made by JKR posted by genesis blue. She says he is dead. I do like to imagine though wot it would be like if he hadnt died. It would have been a happy ending haryr living with Sirius, ahh well

[Virii]

*Same post as the one from the Sirius thread in Divination*

I have a theory on how Sirius died rather then why and I thought that this thread is an appropriate place to post my so-called "theory".

We know that Sirius got hit by somekind of spell which made him fall gracefully within the Veil effectively taking his life. Many of us assume that Sirius was just hit by some regular stunning spell, and Sirius, by chance, happened to fall backwards into to Veil.

But I do not believe that that was a regular stunning spell. In fact, I believe it was a specific spell which was made in conjunction with the Veil (or maybe after). I personally believe the Veil is some sort of old death penalty used for criminal wizards. I believe it is no longer in use due to the fact that Dementors kiss criminals, effectively "killing" them. As a result there is no reason to use the Veil anymore, although that does not stop the Veil from being studied on.

So given it was used as a means to dispose of criminal wizards, let's analyze how one would be placed within the Veil. One way, the traditional muggle way, would be to have an executioner literally push the criminal through the Veil. The problem with this is the fact that the criminal can somehow grab the executioner before being pushed in making the executioner go through the Veil as well. It's quite silly, but it would be possible. Another way would be to maybe somehow levitate the criminal through the Veil, but that too would seem highly ridiculous and silly as a means of execution, seeing a criminal floating through the air into the Veil. I believe there is only one way to effectively make someone go through the Veil, and have them executed. This is of course a specific spell to use when a person is infront of the Veil. I believe that the person would have to be standing right infront of the Veil, while the executioner would conjur the spell which would make the Veil sort of forcibly "suck" the person into the Veil. Sirius's death is just too mysterious for it to be a regular stunning spell. How his expression changed on his face, and how he fell straight into the Veil, gracefully, instead of making himself fall to the sides. He clearly knew what would happen if he fell through, and if he were hit by a regular stunning spell, I believe he would have the will power to dodge falling into the Veil. He stands there for a moment, as if he is just a little dazed, but he falls straight through. It seemed like he had no choice but to fall through the Veil as if it were pulling him in.

Thoughts?

[MiaHalliwell]

Virii,

That is quite a good thought. My only opposition to your idea would be to say that a stunning spell would make Sirius freeze and unable to move for a short time. I was thinking that he was stunned and losing his balance to make him fall backward. The expression on his face changed because he knew that he couldn't move and that he was going to fall through the veil, but I think you are onto something when you say that the veil might possibly have a sort of pull. That could be how or why he lost balance and fell backward.

[Virii]

I initially thought it was a regular stunning spell, but everything seemed akward about it.

Everytime I read that death it's just plain weird to me. It always felt (to me) that in a way, he fell into that Veil on purpose. Now, I know Sirius would never do such a thing, since he would want to be with Harry. But that's just how it always seemed to me. Unless of course, my spell theory is correct, which would mean he had no choice but to fall into the Veil.

[rock_ally]

well, we know that the room the veil was in was the death room. like the other departments, like time, age, intelligence, what not. there was some blatant forshadowing in the end of the 5th book by luna lovegood. she tells harry that he has not seen the last of sirius. she tells him he heard them, beyond the veil. there is no way it is going to be left out. i think it will play a large role in harrys further relationship with siriu, and i beleive there will be one.

[rock_ally]

well, we know that the room the veil was in was the death room. like the other departments, like time, age, intelligence, what not. there was some blatant forshadowing in the end of the 5th book by luna lovegood. she tells harry that he has not seen the last of sirius. she tells him he heard them, beyond the veil. there is no way it is going to be left out. i think it will play a large role in harrys further relationship with siriu, and i beleive there will be one.

[whizbang121]

Originally Posted by Hpmons

Ok, here is what we know so far (a little reviewing):

- The veil is ancient, and stands on a dais
- The room has been called the Death Chamber
- Druids believed that at Halloween, the difference between life and death is thinnest, and it is easiest to talk to the dead.
- The room is set out like an amphitheatre
- It is a room that is studied at the Department of Mysteries
- The people who have seen death + Ginny, can all hear voices coming from behind it. Harry at first thinks he can hear Rons voice
- The veil flutters (probably every time there is a death in the world)
- "Beyond the veil" is a term that means the realm of the dead.
- All the people who heard the voices, longed to get closer to it, and went into a trance-like state.
- Hermione (who has not seen death) seemed to be scared of it.

And the ones who heard the voices were also the ones who were in the train car when the mimbulus mimbletonia stinksapped everyone. Ron and Hermione, who didn't hear anything, were at the prefects meeting. Luna didn't appear to get hit with the stinksap and she also appeared to have the most understanding of the veil.

That girl knows stuff.

[starxgazer]

I wonder if the curse killed him, or the Viel, or if he was even killed. Could it possible be that the Viel took him to an another world of somekind that Harry cannot reach? Or none of the Wizarding world could reach?

[Virii]

Originally Posted by starxgazer

I wonder if the curse killed him, or the Viel, or if he was even killed. Could it possible be that the Viel took him to an another world of somekind that Harry cannot reach? Or none of the Wizarding world could reach?

It was definately the Veil which took his life. His facial expressions where changing after he was hit.

[Shauna]

Originally Posted by starxgazer

I wonder if the curse killed him, or the Viel, or if he was even killed. Could it possible be that the Viel took him to an another world of somekind that Harry cannot reach? Or none of the Wizarding world could reach?

I have been wondering the same thing. While I believe that Sirius is "gone," I am not sure whether it was the veil or the curse that took him there. I think it is safe to assume that it was the veil, since as far as we know, the only curse that can kill someone directly is Avada Kedavra, and that was not the spell used on Sirius.

Shauna

[filius]

I think that the spell that was used was the stunning spell (and as we all know it produces a jet of red light.) Even though it may be a simple spell, it's effects are powerful. Bellatrix saw her chance when Sirius was near the veil and used a simple spell to push him backwards. He had a look of shock on his face because he had just told his "beloved cousin"-"is that the best you can do/" And when she did him him with a spell, he was in shock. Or at least that is what i think but i really do suspect that the RED LIGHT was indeed a stunning spell to push him through the veil.