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  #41  
Old April 23rd, 2004, 9:03 pm
Buckbeak2004  Female.gif Buckbeak2004 is offline
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I dont think its only love in the locked room, love is certainly one of the things, but there must be more. I must say I'll be disappointed if i get to the end of book 7 to discover 'voldermort was destroyed by love'


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  #42  
Old May 6th, 2004, 2:30 pm
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GryffindorGr  Undisclosed.gif GryffindorGr is offline
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Cool. An Engaging thread.

Quote:
by Baron_G
More relevant quotes from that chapter(hope it helps, I want to keep this going): "`On the contrary… the fact that you can feel pain like this is your greatest strength.'"
"`You do care,'....`You care so much you feel as though you will bleed to death with the pain of it.'"

Whatever it is, JKR better be careful with how she approaches this without sounding corny. She should build up to it like only she can. Make it sound 'technical' in the wizarding context. Like how a mother's self-sacrifice for her child is 'ancient magic' and how music(according to D'dore in book 1) is "beyond all magic we do here".
I agree. But I don’t think JKR is going to be overly banal in this context. Maybe her motive will only be that a mother’s self sacrifice is the main crux of the matter from book 1 all the way to book 7. It doesn’t necessarily have to be that icky lovey dovey romantic stuff (since I don’t think imo that romance is the main plotline, but rather, like many great stories along this line, a sideplot for a nice diversion.)
Plus JKR did state she didn’t want it to sound corny:
Excerpts:
“"I want to finish these seven books and look back and think that whatever happened -- however much this hurricane whirled around me -- I stayed true to what I wanted to write. This is my Holy Grail: that when I finish writing book seven, I can say -- hand on heart -- I didn't change a thing. I wrote the story I meant to write. If I lost readers along the way, so be it, but I still told my story. The one I wanted. Without permitting it to sound too corny, that's what I owe to my characters. That we won't be deflected, either by adoration or by criticism."-J.K. Rowling”
from:
http://groups.msn.com/AllTheThingsID...jkrowling.msnw

I am interested what music presents in HP too, as in Harry’s dreams and how it lulled the three headed dog in PS/SS to sleep.

Quote:
by Whizbang121
Dumbledore says, "In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you."

In this same "tell all" conversation, Dumbledore mentions Harry's extraordinary bravery several times. Heart can also be interpreted as courage. And Dumbledore mentions more than once in the series, that death isn't something to fear. But Voldemort, seeking immortality, is afraid of death. Even Nearly Headless Nick's meager explanation of death hinges on the courage to move on vs the frightened decision to stay behind and become a ghost.

This force is more wonderful and terrible than death, than human intelligence, than the forces of nature.

Sometimes intelligence would dictate different choices than courage. How often does Hermione tell Harry to be careful? I believe that self sacrificing love is a part of and motivation for heroic courage.

Of course, whatever is behind that door melts knives.
Whatever is behind that door that melts knives, hmmmm….even Luna Lovegood tried eagerly to ponder what is in there. And she’s the one who talked about Heliopaths too.
OotP. P.684.
“You know what could be in there?” said Luna eagerly, as the wall started to spin yet again.
“Something blibbering, no doubt,” said Hermione under her breath and Neville gave a nervous little laugh.

It is Hermione who pulled the gang out of certain doors, especially the one with the veil in it. Could it be that Hermione is just overtly cautious, not curious as most kids would be? More frightened than curiousity killed the cat? She took control of the situation, setting Harry on a different path than the one he wanted to intriguingly pursue by cleverly mentioning Sirius’s name, jolting him back to the next phase.


Quote:

Harry's ability to "feel" his emotions to that degree seems to be an important aspect of triggering the 'power' in him. Learning to harness these strong emotional rushes will bring this elusive and unknown power directly under his control and ultimately defeat Voldemort.
I've been flipping through book five and I hadn't realized how often Harry was actually in Voldemort's head. Hmmmmmmm...........

And then there’s Time
Exactly. Time. It was even in italics when Hermione said that.
OotP, p.697. British Edition.
A baby’s head now sat grotesquely on top of the thick, muscled neck of the Death Eater as he struggled to get up again; but even as they watched, their mouths open, the head began to swell to its previous proportions again; thick black hair was sprouting from the pate and chin…..
“It’s Time,’ said Hermione in an awestruck voice. “Time….”

And in both times, they were in a bell jar, like the humming bird. The shape of a bell, like the clock, rather the sound of the bell when the clock strikes a certain hour.


Quote:
by eggplant
The key question, what’s in the locked room at the Ministry Of Magic, what is this powerful thing that Harry has and Voldemort does not? Love has something to do with it but there must be more than to it than that because Dumbledore says it is not only more wonderful than death it is more terrible too. Perhaps courage and skill and sacrifice and “old magic” and something else that’s hard to put a finger on; I guess you could say the room contains The Right Stuff. So why is it locked? I don’t think the wizards locked it and are in fact trying to unlock it but without success. I think in book 7 Harry will find a way to unlock it, something even Dumbledore couldn’t do. He knows that opening the door is the only way to destroy Voldemort but Harry also knows that if he does so he will die too; remember that powerful “old magic” involves sacrifice. I predict that in the second to last chapter of book 7 entitled “The Man Who Died”, the one just before the appendix where the lives of the surviving characters is described, he opens that door and Harry Potter is no more.
It’s got to be something that is inevitable and cannot be manipulated no matter how much time or magic can do to it.
Old magic involves sacrifice,….hmmm, no wonder the Aztecs and many older dead cultures from the past tried to use sacrifices for their rituals as if to give to the gods a gift. It really can be manipulated can it? I do however liked the way the Native Americans did it. Their way was gentler and kinder. They used the sacrifices of trees and animals for good use. I believe this was only in certain tribes because there were other types of tribes that did believe in sacrifice of the same sort along the lines as the Aztecs did.


Quote:
by Angora

If Harry's big power is "love" I'm going to be disappointed. It'll be like Ma-Ti and his stupid "heart" power all over again (anyone who was (un)lucky enough to grow up with Captain Planet knows what I mean).

*cough* And now for the theory that nobody but me believes, but will never truely die:

If the unspeakables are studying the power in the room (and it makes sense that they would be, because it's in their department) and they can't get into the room, then probably at some point they're going to want to study Harry instead.
Quote:
by Buckbeak2004
I dont think its only love in the locked room, love is certainly one of the things, but there must be more. I must say I'll be disappointed if i get to the end of book 7 to discover 'voldermort was destroyed by love'

I will certainly be disappointed if it’s the romance kind of love. But I do believe it is going to be “love” in particular. Which is something opposite from hate and war.
And that “heart” power, well, it does seem to make a bit of sense since the heart does tick like a clock. When the heart goes out, the time stops ticking. Yeah, pretty obvious but so many times what is miniscule inside our system as a human being has been paralleled to the universe’s vastness.


  #43  
Old May 8th, 2004, 5:27 pm
ErickGama  Male.gif ErickGama is offline
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I also think that it is something about love, because maybe he wants to kill Harry Potter but he is protected by the love of Lily, and maybe he wants it as a weapon to kill Harry and Dumbledore


  #44  
Old May 8th, 2004, 5:52 pm
evil_by_nature_dm  Female.gif evil_by_nature_dm is offline
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behind that door..... love is a definite possiblilty.... but can you really study love? i mean, it says in the book that the things in the department of mysteries are studied carefully.... i dont think voldemort will be destroyed by love... more like the hate he has inside him...


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  #45  
Old May 8th, 2004, 6:05 pm
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"It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, that human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there"

It could be many things... for me, personally, Music fits those characteristics even better than Love, but that's only a personal appreciation due to my personal tastes...

I think it also could be Time...
Other things that could be under my point of view, are Innocence, and Life...

But there is one thing that made me think... a person will never die completely if his/her memory remains on other people's hearts... so that's something that Harry has in loads, but Voldemort hasn't... something more wonderful, and terrible than death... it is terrible to not to be missed by anyone...


  #46  
Old May 8th, 2004, 6:12 pm
evil_by_nature_dm  Female.gif evil_by_nature_dm is offline
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i dont think it could be time... that was kinda studied in the room where the "baby" death eater kept growing up and shrinking.... and i consider time a force of nature, so time cant be more wonderful or terrible than time... that doesnt make sense... but thats just my opinion, maybe JKR doesnt consider time a force of nature.


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  #47  
Old May 9th, 2004, 2:37 pm
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I've found what I think it is a clue of what could that power be, in the middle of one interview to J.K. Rowling:

"The book is really about the power of the imagination."

Could that be the "force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, that human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there"?

I think it makes sense...


  #48  
Old May 9th, 2004, 2:54 pm
Buckbeak2004  Female.gif Buckbeak2004 is offline
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Hmmm...imagination... good idea. But does voldy despise and underestimate the power of imagination?


  #49  
Old May 10th, 2004, 4:29 pm
Lord_Chatterley
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Music? It's higly unprobable that the power is the music!
Harry will beat Voldemort singing Superstar of Beyoncè Knowles?


  #50  
Old May 12th, 2004, 8:04 pm
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alrighty..i think this is very interesting. But, I think there are some overlooked things.

First, DD pretty much named what was in the other rooms that we saw. As we know JKR speaks through DD, I think we can assume she is telling us the main points of the rooms. Death, Forces of Nature, and Human Intelligence. So it is an ancient magic of some sort, relating to a more "basic" and natural form of magic.

DD says in the first book that it was his mother's love that protected him and that's why LV couldn't touch him. LV didn't think about it at the time, but it wasn't that he was ignorant of it. And besides..LV can touch Harry now. He used Harry's blood. The proctection of his mother is gone now. For it flows within LV now as well. DD himself said that that "particular barrier" (GoF) had been overcome. So there are apparently others that reside within Harry. And apparently the protection from his mother no longer applies.

I also think of the prophecy. While most people think of taking it to be either fate or a reaction to the choices we make..i think it's a mixture of both. Think of the Matrix. The Oracle "tells the future" right? Yes and no. Prophecies are a tricky thing. Neo, she says, isn't the one, but he has the gift. and knocking over the flowers...a self-fulfilling prophecy? The same with LV. If he hadn't heard about the prophecy, he wouldn't have attacked Harry. But he did, and as a result and no knowing the whole thing, he fulfilled it, marking Harry as his equal. I guess I tend to think that Harry however, was also born with some unique ability. He has a power the Dark Lord does not. LV knows about harry's love and his "gotta save people" attitude. And he won't make the same mistake twice. Harry has something else inside him beyond love.

I don't really know what it is...but I don't think it is love. Related to love in some way? maybe. but not love itself. Oh, and the unmentionables have to know how to open the room. They know what's inside, someone had to lock it, so someone must be able to open it. And they have to study it. I'm looking forward to this mystery being explained.


  #51  
Old May 12th, 2004, 8:11 pm
OmarGama  Male.gif OmarGama is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puneypunk
its gotta be love :/
I agree with you.


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  #52  
Old May 12th, 2004, 8:15 pm
tyro  Undisclosed.gif tyro is offline
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hmmmm.

a thought has popped up in my head. what if it was magic itself. i.e. the actual essence that runs through a wizards veins but not a muggles.

it's clearly not though, because it doesn't fit in with what DD said. please don;t say it's love, that is so tacky.


  #53  
Old May 15th, 2004, 6:42 am
ultimate sacrifice  Undisclosed.gif ultimate sacrifice is offline
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[quote=HarryPotter]"It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, that human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there"

This reminds me of the experience Moses had with the "Burning Bush". Maybe the only way one enters that door is if they are "summoned" by the power behind that door. Maybe the force behind that door is something similar to the "Ark of the Covenant" or "The Holy Grail" or something that is a symbol of the Creator or Higher Power. JKR has did not use a substitute name for Christmas or Easter when referring to those holidays in the books. She even wrote in Christmas Carols in one of the books. So, the muggle holidays of Christmas and Easter are recognized at Hogwarts.

Just a thought, no real proof...probably wishful thinking on my part.


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  #54  
Old May 15th, 2004, 6:58 am
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its probably love... but how can harry use love? Its some kinda potion i think that he can throw at voldemort.. or some kinda of powerful beam weapon that harry can harness...

i dont think its going to be as lame as...
Voldemort: AVADA KE---
Harry: I give you HEART! *hugs voldemort*


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  #55  
Old May 26th, 2004, 10:26 pm
honeycombe  Female.gif honeycombe is offline
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o my god!!! something just clicked thanks to whoever said 'how will harry get into the room?' i've always thought that harry and voldemort will both die and harry will sacrifice himself to kill evil. wot if harry must open the door but the power is so strong he will not survive either? the power would be released and ending evil evrywhere or something (i just made that up) cos i know that J.K. once said that in future books she's gonna go further and try and answer the question what makes people evil. Although this idea is kinda sad (dead harry) maybe he'll survive but he had to be willing to sacrifice himself the way his mother did to open the door. wot do u think?

P.S. i also think just love is cheesy. J.K. is too clever for that - she'll mould it carefully.


  #56  
Old May 26th, 2004, 10:29 pm
Achilles  Male.gif Achilles is offline
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I think that Harry may survive the final encounter, but it will leave him so affected that he may not practice magic anymore, or leave the wizard world entirely after saving it. or then again, the love of his friends may save him after he kills Voldemort in a rage.


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  #57  
Old May 26th, 2004, 10:32 pm
honeycombe  Female.gif honeycombe is offline
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hey wot about not love but pure heart or good. oh! another brainstorm!! you know J.K. says that book 2 is very important, well how about the comment from dumbledore that harry is pure of heart (that's why fawkes came or something). that could be what harry has that voldemort doesn't. Or the opposite of evil - the goodness of mankind???


  #58  
Old May 26th, 2004, 10:39 pm
Achilles  Male.gif Achilles is offline
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A pure, good heart beats a dead, dark heart everytime when matched in a fair contest. Perhaps Voldemort will be so confident that he will battle Harry one on one, and in his arrogance he will be defeated again. This time for good.


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  #59  
Old May 26th, 2004, 11:39 pm
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dunno, i still think that love and similar thing are a tad bit cheesy. not that i'm saying that it's not possible but JK knows how to make better twists in the story than that. it might as well be anything for all we know.


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  #60  
Old June 20th, 2004, 10:35 pm
Niffler_8882  Female.gif Niffler_8882 is offline
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I think one of the reasons that the always locked door in the department of mysteries that contains that special thing that harry has is locked (woah long phrase there) is that it is something to amazingly good and so amazingly powerful that anybody, if they knew what it was, would immediatly try to get their hands on it. They would fight anything to try to get it so the Unspeakables have to keep it locked to protect it from others. And if it is something that everbody wants then it must be really really good..but what is it then?

Love? Too obvious i think. I think that JKR wouldn't make it too obvious for her fans that this thing is really love. I mean she does have a thing for twists and cliffhangers and mystery doesn't she? Would she really tell us straight out that this thing is love? Well, we know its in the heart don't we. So it could be something totally different. Could it be good? Or human emotion? Or caring? Or guilt? Or truth? Or everthing combined! Something that most people would really want to get their hands on. Innocence, maybe? Or maybe it is sadness?

Harry felt these things: guilt, sadness, caring and love when he thought about Sirius when LV was possesing him. This made LV leave his body right away. We must remember that the thought of Sirius really made LV get disgusted. What in this certain thought would be something to exist in the locked room..Personally, i think it is the essence of having all human emotion. Something that most people want-good, love, caring. Is this why it is locked?


 
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