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  #81  
Old July 25th, 2004, 10:49 am
theloof  Male.gif theloof is offline
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"In the end, it didn't matter if you couldn't close your mind. It was your heart that saved you?"

Sound familiar? Gotta be love...


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  #82  
Old August 18th, 2004, 2:01 am
princess_potter  Undisclosed.gif princess_potter is offline
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Yet if it is love, empathy, or anything emotional for that matter, lets think rationally here...the magical world is so vast...I understand Harry has now been marked "the chosen one" however we must not oversee the fact that there are millions of wizards out there...are there not any more wizards whose hearts are filled with "love?" The prophecy was created for a reason, it speaks of a person who possesses such power that there is a barrier seperating them from the rest of the world...we all know that person is Harry...yet there is more to this than meets the eye, there has to be, because although it may be plausible to think that Harry has bravery and courage...he has been BORN with those traits, not blessed or "given" by Voldemorts transition of power. There must be thousands of wizards with hearts as pure as Harry...i dont' believe it is love Harry Possesses, it hast o be something else that will destroy voldemort...love is to common, although powerful, JK knows better than to use something so common as the ultimate end to the HP series. Even if the dept. of mysteries is full with love, it will take more than passion to defeat voldemort.


  #83  
Old August 18th, 2004, 2:24 am
Violet Black  Female.gif Violet Black is offline
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Niffler, that entire theory is incredible. This bit in particular:

Quote:
h) When Harry is being possessed by Voldemort it hurts Harry a lot because the soul is trying to escape Harry's body and join Voldemort again.
This is fascinating - and a potential nod to LOTR if true. It's a clever twist on the 'ring trying to get back to its master' theme in LOTR.


  #84  
Old August 18th, 2004, 3:45 am
Libertine  Female.gif Libertine is offline
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who has harry ever loved? you could say ron, hermione, and sirius, but none of them are like parents or siblings or life-long friends. when harry is feeling his worse, he hides from ron and hermione, and doesn't confide in them (about the prophecy, etc). and he hardly knows sirius, it's more like he admired him from afar.

he cares about these people but i don't think he knows real love yet. and princess potter makes an excellent point, that many witches and wizards have plenty of love in their hearts (mrs weasley!) but this force or power that harry has must be unique among all of them. plus, how do you put love in a room and study it?


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  #85  
Old August 18th, 2004, 5:21 am
AlbusDumbled0re  Male.gif AlbusDumbled0re is offline
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I think that room has something to do with death that is being studied. Harry has some power of death in him because his mother died for him. Voldemort on the other hand has no power to die. I think that's why Harry is the only man capable of vanquishing him because he has the power of death. I hope that made sense.


  #86  
Old October 29th, 2004, 6:48 pm
gena7180  Female.gif gena7180 is offline
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I think that love is part of the answer to the unopenable room. I think the room represents the power of emotion and the ability to feel deeply and all through the spectrum of emotion. DD tells us that when unleased what is in that room can bring great joy and sorrow (or something to that effect I don't have the book with me for a full quote). Emotion does that. We all know that a tailspin of several emotions at once can be overwhelming. JK has already brought up the fury of emotions in her Dementor comparisions to depression.
We can agrue this point widely, but I dont' think VD can really feel emotions. Surely he can feel hate and maybe jealousy. But he can't fully feel the range of emotions particularly love.
When Harry forces Voldie out it is because of his feelings towards Sirius and about Sirius's death. While surley love was a major emotion in that it was certainly not the only one, grief, anguish to name a couple would have been part of it. So I think the pure power of emotion and the ability to feel like that is what drove Voldie to leave Harry.
And I think that is what is behind the door because we know that what is behind that door is what Harry posses that Voldermort does not.


  #87  
Old November 22nd, 2004, 4:27 pm
Lplus  Male.gif Lplus is offline
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How about Compassion? It's more than just love - remember his compassion for Luna because she was being bullied - despite the fact that he didn't actually want to speak to her.


  #88  
Old November 25th, 2004, 7:45 pm
hollygo72  Undisclosed.gif hollygo72 is offline
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It's LOVE.

But it's not as simple (or "cheesy") as people think it is. There are many types of love. Romantic love, love a parent has for a child, love for a friend, etc...

I think JKR will do better than to simply say it's "pure love". I think some of you are onto something when you bring up EMOTION. I think SACRIFICE will play a part too. To LOVE someone soo much and feel the full range of that EMOTION that you are willing to SACRIFICE yourself for it. Like God sacrificing his only son Jesus to save the human race.

I think the reason why the door is locked and Harry can't get into it (certainly not with a knife - a knife has nothing to do with love) is that he doesn't understand it yet. What's behind that door CAN be used as a weapon. ONLY if you fully understand it.

Harry right now is experiencing a chaotic whirlwind of emotions that he most certainly doesn't fully understand. And I also thinking he's missing some key experiences (including romantic love). Once he has them. And understands them. He will be able to get what is behind that locked door and use it to destroy Voldemort.

I just occurred to me that maybe it's the big "MEANING OF LIFE". Harry will end up like Siddhartha. He will finally get it in the last moments of his life then drop dead (after he vanuishes Voldemort of course).


  #89  
Old November 25th, 2004, 7:57 pm
nautiestmonk  Male.gif nautiestmonk is offline
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I have read everywhere that it is Love. I could beleive that if it wasn't such an obvious answer. You can't lock it up inside a room, you can't lock it up at all. I beleive that the power Harry has that LV doesn't is heart.
I do invest some stock in the Heir vs. Heir theory, that brings me to heart. Heart of a lion and all that jazz. You can say that is love but I mean something bigger.
LV diesn't have a heart, he doesn't care for anyone. He was never shown what real relationships with people were. Harry grew up the same way but he was open to the chance. Instead of hate he was full of longing for that stuff.

Add something DD said in book 2 about choices and there you have what I think.

I know it's a little hard to read but let me know if you understand what I mean


  #90  
Old November 25th, 2004, 8:34 pm
SquibOnline  Male.gif SquibOnline is offline
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I thought it was meant to be love - thats what DD said


  #91  
Old November 28th, 2004, 8:28 pm
prongz  Undisclosed.gif prongz is offline
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Good thread, and I like the idea the secret force is love - I dont disagree that there's a lot of evidence in its favor.

I have another suggestions: the DoM room contains secrets about "Dreams." yes, dreams is another major theme in the HP series. there were insertions about dreams in the HPIII DVD, and JK said that some insertions would be later clues about the future books. Maybe that's one.

What we do know they are studying in the DoM:
1). Time (the room containing the hummingbird and jar).
2). Death (the so called "Death Room" where the Sirius dies)
3). Human Intelligence (the room with all the brains)
4). Prophecy (the Hall of Prophecy)

surely human love would be another mystery that they could be interested in, but wouldn't they also be interested in dreams? Dreams are, after all, quite powerful too. Dreams are life-giving in that they can be inspirational and motivating, and they bring us all together, at least in a sense.


  #92  
Old December 19th, 2004, 7:25 pm
Haynesworth  Male.gif Haynesworth is offline
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The quote explaining the room:

"There is a room in the Department of Mysteries," interrupted Dumbledore, "that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps, the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. that power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. In the end, it mattered not that you could not close your mind. It was your heart that saved you."

Now let's look at when Voldemort tried to possess Harry at the end of the DoM scene:

And then Harry's scar burst open. He know he was dead: it was pain beyond imagining, pain past endurance-
He was gone from the hall, he was locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes, so tightly bound that Harry did not know where his body ended and the creature's began. They were fused together, bound by pain, and there was no escape-
And when the creature spoke, it used Harry's mouth, so that in agony he felt his jaw move...
"Kill me now, Dumbledore...."
Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, Harry felt the creature use him again...
"If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy..."
Let the pain stop, thought Harry. Let him kill us...End it, Dumbledore...Death is nothing compared to this...
And I'll see Sirius again...
And as Harry's heart filled with emotion, the creature's coils loosened, the pain was gone, Harry was lying facedown on the floor, his glasses gone, shivering as though he lay upon ice, not wood...


So in this quote we see that Voldemort tried to possess him, but when Harry's heart filled with emotion for Sirius, Voldemort left because he could not possess a body filled with the emotion he hates. Thus, the emotion in the room that Harry has is the same emotion he felt at this part of the book, thinking of Sirius...

So, what is the emotion? Is it grief or mourning for Sirius, is it compassion? Or is just love, pure love which he felt for Sirius, the only person left in his life who he truly loved, and who had just died? I think it's love, because he did love Sirius. Bellatrix says it, "Ooh, did you love him, baby Potter?" After this, Harry gets very angry. I think he did love him, and when that emotion came over him, Voldemort could not bear to possess him. That's what's in the room, and that's what saved Harry.


  #93  
Old December 21st, 2004, 7:39 pm
mareesa  Female.gif mareesa is offline
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Well, it's good to bring up the threads from the bowels of the Forum. I'm glad to see this one again.

The Door refered to is the one in MoM kept locked at all times. As some of you think, I agree that there is no way Jo brought up this room only to keep it locked through the end of the series. Love, Life, and Dreams have been the ideas brought forth (to catch you up). And if you think Love is ho-hum as an option...let me throw some oil on the fire. What if the material in the room is Spirit. Not spirit as in Holy Spirit as in the Catholic sense; but spirit as in what resides in one's soul? Souls (someone mentioned VM's soul here) is a good start. But I'd be pretty shocked in the MoM was collecting souls like the Dementors.

More likely, the spirit of a person contains the moral conscience, and emotions needed to abide the conscience including but not limited to love, compassion, pity, understanding...and the list goes on. What I'd like to see happen is that this door does open (through the use of Wormtail's hand, which would melt) and that the force would absolutely demolish the Dememtors. They would be overwelmed by the spiritual energy, and would thus draw out the souls trapped inside of the Dementors. That would be a nice way for the dementors to vaporize. I don't see getting rid of the dementors any other way. And...maybe...the way the Unspeakables study these Spirit forces is through patronuses (past folks patronuses left behind-spiritual energy incarnate?)

Thoughts anyone?


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  #94  
Old December 21st, 2004, 11:47 pm
Ethveg  Male.gif Ethveg is offline
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I had (and still have) no doubt that the force in the room is LOVE.

The problem posters in this thread seem to have with that idea (and its "cheesiness") is that they're thinking of it as "an emotion," as something someone FEELS. That's a VERY limited view of love (and certainly not what The Beatles meant in "All you need is love ...".)

From the Vedantic perspective, love is a synonym for both God and consciousness. It is a natural force, existing independently of any particular organism, which can be thought of as the smallest quantum of energy which exists, "so small that it ceases to be unique," and which can consequently vibrate at ANY frequency (frequency of vibration being the essence of all things material) and so KNOW everything ("God is ominiscient")and BECOME any-thing (in the sense of Whitman's child who went out each morn 'and the first thing that he saw, that thing did he become'; "God is omnipresent, He's everywhere and IN every thing"; and it's part of Siddhartha's penultimate reallization, that even the rock was alive.)

I leave it to JKR to find a way for the unspeakeables to harness that force for use against V., but I feel sure that V's vulnerability to the force lies in the fact that he now has some of Harry's blood in him (remember Dd's slight smile when he learned that it was blood V. had taken from H.?) ANd this would explain why it did not destroy him when his avada kadavra spell didn''''t work on infant Harry and rebounded: at THAT time he did not have love in him.

Manifesting in a person, the force creates compassion for the loved object - an empathetic identification with the object, so that if the object is an appropriate (usually opposite-sexed) person the desire is to become one with it physically, while if it's someone in pain the desire is to stop the pain (since the one who is loving feels it also.)

The idea that it's V's soul makes no sense to me at all: look at what living soulless beings are like (after a Dementor's kiss); that's certainly not the state V. is in.


The BIG puzzle to me is the wording of the prophecy which says "neither can live while the other survives ... ." JKR has written that she spent time getting that wording exactly right. But aren't H and V BOTH alive and surviving at this point? (I haven't done the work on this one, but I think someplace early on, when V's first encounter with H is discussed, the speaker says that V "survived" the rebounded spell.)

Perhaps "must die AT THE HAND of the other" is relevant (although of course we think at once about Wormtail, and then of his still-unpaid debt to H.) But that doesn't explain the "neither can live" clause. Anyone have any thoughts about that?


  #95  
Old December 22nd, 2004, 6:56 am
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Runes  Female.gif Runes is offline
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Okay, so we've thought of Love, Life, Dreams and Spirits so far. Truthfully, the room containing spirits or souls seems a bit far-fetched to me. Because a person can only have one soul, can't they? So how's Harry so full of this power? Does he have more than one soul? It doesn't really match, does it?

Okay, on the other hand, if you fit "dreams' into the prophecy, it doesn't match either.

"It is the power held within that room that you possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took you to save Sirius tonight. that power also saved you from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests"

I don't know. I'm probably being a big skeptic, but Dreams still doesn't fit in with what we already have. Harry isn't very much full of dreams. In OotP, those were the result of him entering Voldemort's mind. But still.. I know Harry's always been having prophetic dreams since book 1. He dreamed of his stag Patronus even before he conjured it. He dreamed Quirrel's turban was talking to him and asking him to switch houses. Yet it still doesn't seem like a huge-super-powerful thing.

What Haynesworth just said made me realize something:

Quote:
And then Harry's scar burst open. He know he was dead: it was pain beyond imagining, pain past endurance-
He was gone from the hall, he was locked in the coils of a creature with red eyes, so tightly bound that Harry did not know where his body ended and the creature's began. They were fused together, bound by pain, and there was no escape-
And when the creature spoke, it used Harry's mouth, so that in agony he felt his jaw move...
"Kill me now, Dumbledore...."
Blinded and dying, every part of him screaming for release, Harry felt the creature use him again...
"If death is nothing, Dumbledore, kill the boy..."
Let the pain stop, thought Harry. Let him kill us...End it, Dumbledore...Death is nothing compared to this...
And I'll see Sirius again...
And as Harry's heart filled with emotion, the creature's coils loosened, the pain was gone, Harry was lying facedown on the floor, his glasses gone, shivering as though he lay upon ice, not wood...

So in this quote we see that Voldemort tried to possess him, but when Harry's heart filled with emotion for Sirius, Voldemort left because he could not possess a body filled with the emotion he hates. Thus, the emotion in the room that Harry has is the same emotion he felt at this part of the book, thinking of Sirius...

So, what is the emotion?
If you just look at "And I'll see Sirius again." that sentence is brimming with HOPE.

So to further complicate discussions, I'll throw in a new possibility that the power Harry has is HOPE.

(Okay, actually I'm just playing around here. Ever since my first reading of OotP, I've been a firm believer that the mysterious power is love. But coming up with new theories is fun)

Runes~*~


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  #96  
Old December 30th, 2004, 1:23 am
Yetisnowman  Undisclosed.gif Yetisnowman is offline
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The Locked Door in the DOM

Mod I did a search and nothing came up. Please merge if you have to.

But in OoTP when the DA get to the circular room in the DOM there is a locked door. Later Dumbledore mentions it and says that within that door there is something more wonderful and more terrible than death. It is something that Harry posses in such quantities and that Voldemort has none of. And then he says that it is what brought Harry to Sirius that night.

At the beginning of the Chapter The Only on He Feared Harry is chasing down Bellatrix and she says "Did you Love him Potter". I think this was a clue that Jk was giving us.

I believe what is studied in the Locked Room is Love.


  #97  
Old February 15th, 2005, 5:23 am
hazel_hifearnan  Female.gif hazel_hifearnan is offline
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I've read many threads and editorials on the subject but I've yet to see anyone mention the first thing that popped into my mind after I decided it wasn't love.

Selflessness. The ability to put someone else's needs ahead of your own.

Think about it. It's something Harry has in great abundance, and something Voldemort certainly does not have.

It's also something that can be both great and terrible.
It's great because it makes you feel good to make others happy. But it's terrible because it opens you up to the possibility of being used.

And it certainly could be what drove Harry to rescue Sirius. He risked his own life to save him. He put Sirius' life ahead of his own.

And here's the part I find most interesting. When Voldemort possesses Harry and asks Dumbledore to kill him we don't know what Harry is thinking. Maybe Harry agrees, maybe he is willing to sacrifice himself to ensure Voldemort's death and protect the world. At this point neither he nor Voldemort know Dumbledore can't kill him. So when Voldemort realized Harry was willing to sacrifice himself he was unable to bear the selflessness coursing through him.

There's probably a better word for it but I think the main idea works very well.

Comments and criticism are very very welcome.


  #98  
Old March 14th, 2005, 9:15 pm
padfootLives  Male.gif padfootLives is offline
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It could be the power that harry have (and voldemort doesn't)...well think about it about there's a reason if that door won't open like the others (and there are very dangerous things in other ones)
And maybe that reason is that no one have mastered what lies in that chamber yet (or maybe no one CAN master it....)

My point is that maybe it is (after all) something that could destroy Voldemort, but maybe only Harry will have the power to open, enter in that room and control, wield, tame, use, learn....(whatever) that power...and tht's why it had not been use against Voldemort until now

Just a thought...


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  #99  
Old March 14th, 2005, 9:30 pm
Paintball  Male.gif Paintball is offline
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I think the room is similiar to the brain room, except it contains hearts. They would study the emotions that come from the heart instead of thoughts and memories from the brain. These would include love and sorrow. Since the cover for HBP has come out, I think the American cover depicts Dumbledore teaching Harry by use of the Penseive how to read and understand his emotions. My theory is that by placing the wand to the heart rather then the brain, emotions can be placed in the penseive like we have seen it used for memories. Since the light is green instead of silver, I believe something besides memories are being studied.


  #100  
Old March 14th, 2005, 9:36 pm
Dusty  Female.gif Dusty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hermiones mum
Who would go in the room to study....could this be an area that Harry goes with Dumbledore to study the ancient magic.
What would be the requirement to open the door...to have loved and lost, to be willing to lay your life down to save others or to be able to love yourself. Harry doesn't think too highly of himself.

Would hate also be kept in the same room?
If the room housed love, it would be dangerous. Most people see love and hate as being opposite, when really they are born of the same thing. You don't bother "hating" something you don't care about. It wouldn't be the first time that the power of love has been manipulated to a political or personal agenda. Just ask U2!

(edit) Having just re-read the quote, it makes scence that it doesn't need to be any particular emotion, just emotion itself.

What do we know about students of Slytherin? They're amitious, covet status, power ... even the likes of Crab Jr and Boyle Jr want to be near power if they can't gain it for themselves- why else hang out with Draco when he treats them the way he does?

We know "power corrupts". Greed for anything, but particularly power, will cause some people to focus in on themselves, their own needs and wants. We know that in some people, depending on the level of greed will do anything no matter what cost. At present, LV is fighting for power, and possibly his very existance if he has interpreted the prophecy as "kill or be killed". LV and the DE are killing without remorse, which I see as having no emotion...

Unless you want to focus on psychotic joy and amusement, particularly in Bella's case


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And doesn't that sound familiar / Doesn't that hit too close to home
Doesn't that make you shiver / The way things could've gone
And doesn't it feel peculiar / When everyone wants a little more
And so that I do remember / To never go that far
Could you leave me with a scar?
Harry's Song?!! "Scar", Missy Higgins, Sound of White, 2004

Last edited by Dusty; March 14th, 2005 at 9:55 pm.
 
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